switching?

[Johnisit1234]

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Hi all,

I have a friend who is a current resident in surgery (PGY 3) and is interested in switching into either Internal Medicine or Family Medicine.
How does one do this? He just decided so he wasn't a part of the match. Can he still do SOAP? Also, if not, are there ways to find open spots? I wasn't sure what the protocol for this was..... And his PD doesn't seem to have much insight either.
I just wanted to see what I can do to help.

thanks!

 

[Crayola227]

Hi all,

I have a friend who is a current resident in surgery (PGY 3) and is interested in switching into either Internal Medicine or Family Medicine.
How does one do this? He just decided so he wasn't a part of the match. Can he still do SOAP? Also, if not, are there ways to find open spots? I wasn't sure what the protocol for this was..... And his PD doesn't seem to have much insight either.
I just wanted to see what I can do to help.

thanks!

Cool! His PD knows and sounds... clueless but not pissed? willing to help?

I don't know all, but needs to go to NRMP site and see if there's any still time to sign up and all the requirements
It's not that spendy
Contact alma mater med school, they have to upload transcript and photo
It's very much like ERAS all over again
As far as LORs - THAT I have no clue. I know that when you want to leave one program to another, the old PD's blessing and LOR is basically a requirement

If SOAP is off the table, there's avenues, SDN search can help there

 

[FlameBroiledDoc]

The school should have a Post-grad Dean to facilitate this. Somewhere around 15-20% of all residents change programs.

 

[Raryn]

The school should have a Post-grad Dean to facilitate this. Somewhere around 15-20% of all residents change programs.

Highly specialty dependent.

IM makes up the biggest proportion of all residents and it's <5% attrition.

Psych is highest at >25%. I can't imagine that the overall number is anywhere close to 20%.

 

[FlameBroiledDoc]

Highly specialty dependent.

IM makes up the biggest proportion of all residents and it's <5% attrition.

Psych is highest at >25%. I can't imagine that the overall number is anywhere close to 20%.

Canadian ballpark stat. Fair enough.

 

[Crayola227]

It is true that the school is no stranger to helping set up ERAS and SOAP. It's not that much different if you're a resident, depending on how your med school's office is structured. Sometimes the transcript can take a few days or steps.

 

[the argus]

The best way for you to help your friend is to tell them to relax and forget about switching specialties this year. Trying to throw together an application at literally the last minute (SOAP starts Monday), to attempt to get a position at a FM or IM program that probably isn't very desirable, seems rather silly and a waste of money to me.

Your friend should decide whether they want to do IM or FM, start putting together an application that will actually be competitive for the chosen specialty, and apply with everyone else through ERAS in September.

 

[sazerac]

Highly specialty dependent.

IM makes up the biggest proportion of all residents and it's <5% attrition.

Psych is highest at >25%. I can't imagine that the overall number is anywhere close to 20%.

Where can we find these stats? When I was interviewing, I swear 25% of my interviewers said "well I was in (IM / Surg / Neuro / Gas / FM / etc) but I switched to psych".

Psych must be some kind of revolving door.

 

[Raryn]

Where can we find these stats? When I was interviewing, I swear 25% of my interviewers said "well I was in (IM / Surg / Neuro / Gas / FM / etc) but I switched to psych".

Psych must be some kind of revolving door.

There's a few publications floating around, but they all agree psych has the highest attrition rate. It's also the only specialty that I'm aware of that can start transfers from any other field as a PGY2 (due to being able to just cut out a bunch of 4th year electives with no penalty re: board certification).

http://www.jgme.org/doi/full/10.4300/JGME-D-12-00141.1 is the first one that pops up on google with this figure (note: attrition rates are *annual*)

I suppose I misremembered IM and it's closer to ~8% than 5%.

If you wanted more recent data than 2000-2009, I'm not sure where to look. The authors of this paper say they got the data from the annual JAMA GME survey, but it doesn't seem to include attrition (at least the 2015 and 2016 ones didn't).

 

[ThoracicGuy]

The best way for you to help your friend is to tell them to relax and forget about switching specialties this year. Trying to throw together an application at literally the last minute (SOAP starts Monday), to attempt to get a position at a FM or IM program that probably isn't very desirable, seems rather silly and a waste of money to me.

Your friend should decide whether they want to do IM or FM, start putting together an application that will actually be competitive for the chosen specialty, and apply with everyone else through ERAS in September.

And after another year of surgery, they will only need one more year to be board eligible...

 

[Crayola227]

The best way for you to help your friend is to tell them to relax and forget about switching specialties this year. Trying to throw together an application at literally the last minute (SOAP starts Monday), to attempt to get a position at a FM or IM program that probably isn't very desirable, seems rather silly and a waste of money to me.

Your friend should decide whether they want to do IM or FM, start putting together an application that will actually be competitive for the chosen specialty, and apply with everyone else through ERAS in September.

I don't know, they might not want to spend another year doing surgery they don't want to do.

The SOAP is not that spendy. Of course you're right that ERAS buys them time to be more thoughtful in switching

The other issue is with SOAP is that you do everything by phone. With ERAS they will have to figure out attending interviews with their current program, assuming they stay with the program for next year. Just things to think about.

Even after SOAP, they can looks for spots for next year. There's still things open it's just harder to find stuff.

I know an intern year in IM or FM depending can sometimes let you start as a PGY2 or close to it when you switch to some specialties, I don't know if that's the case with the Surg intern year. Possibly they could look at PGY2 or off cycle spots if their intern year in surgery will count for FM or IM. They may at least get some credit for some months.

 

[Crayola227]

And after another year of surgery, they will only need one more year to be board eligible...

Seems like if they can get something they like lined up for next year it would be worth doing that.

If they can't... maybe it's better to finish the residency before switching... I know people that did that when they where close like 1.5 yrs to done.

They gotta figure it out fast because the program is probably gonna wanna know if they're renewing for next year or not... if they don't renew or it gets filled and they can't be kept on, they'll have to figure out what to do for the year they're not working.

 

[Ismet]

Deadline was Feb 22 for late registration.

 

[gutonc]

I don't know, they might not want to spend another year doing surgery they don't want to do.

The SOAP is not that spendy. Of course you're right that ERAS buys them time to be more thoughtful in switching

You can't SOAP if you didn't register for NRMP already.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Best bet: go to your IM PD right now. If they don't fill, they can take you instead of SOAPing.