tacky to follow-up?

[inthedumps]

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I'm sure that everyone out there who got his or her second or third choice has considered this question. Is it tacky to contact the PD of your first choice program (that you didn't get) and politely ask why you were passed over? I got my second choice, which I'm still very happy with, but I can't stop thinking about why I wasn't ranked higher on the list of my first choice program. I don't have an over-inflated ego about the matter and I know I wasn't the standout candidate, but I felt like I was a solid candidate and got very good vibes from the first choice program. (Seems to be a common theme to get good vibes and they may mean nothing...) Applied to IM by the way, so not a very competitive specialty.

I'm considering emailing the PD of the program to ask why I wasn't considered more highly. Mostly because I'd like to know for my own edification and to better myself as a candidate for fellowship applications, job opportunities, etc. What do you think--is it tacky? Do PDs absolutely hate having this kind of contact after the MATCH?

Your thoughtful feedback is appreciated...

 

[toxic-megacolon]

Mostly because I'd like to know for my own edification and to better myself as a candidate for fellowship applications, job opportunities, etc. What do you think--is it tacky? Do PDs absolutely hate having this kind of contact after the MATCH?

It might border on tacky, but I plan to do the same thing too for the reasons you listed above. I think it will also provide for a sense of closure.

 

[Lizard1]

you could just email the PD and tell him/her that although they were ranked 1st on your list, you matched at blank and that you are very excited. you appreciate them giving you consideration and wish them well in their program.

that'll leave the ball in their court. if they don't respond back, then maybe it's a sign that you are truly better off where you ended up

 

[toxic-megacolon]

you could just email the PD and tell him/her that although they were ranked 1st on your list, you matched at blank and that you are very excited. you appreciate them giving you consideration and wish them well in their program.

that'll leave the ball in their court. if they don't respond back, then maybe it's a sign that you are truly better off where you ended up

Knowing busy program directors, especially this time of year, it seems an email without a specific question will probably end up being ignored (or at least not responded to).

 

[Methyldopa]

I'm sure that everyone out there who got his or her second or third choice has considered this question. Is it tacky to contact the PD of your first choice program (that you didn't get) and politely ask why you were passed over? I got my second choice, which I'm still very happy with, but I can't stop thinking about why I wasn't ranked higher on the list of my first choice program. I don't have an over-inflated ego about the matter and I know I wasn't the standout candidate, but I felt like I was a solid candidate and got very good vibes from the first choice program. (Seems to be a common theme to get good vibes and they may mean nothing...) Applied to IM by the way, so not a very competitive specialty.

I'm considering emailing the PD of the program to ask why I wasn't considered more highly. Mostly because I'd like to know for my own edification and to better myself as a candidate for fellowship applications, job opportunities, etc. What do you think--is it tacky? Do PDs absolutely hate having this kind of contact after the MATCH?

Your thoughtful feedback is appreciated...

What sort of response do you expect to get?? that you're Step 1/2/Insert anything here/ scores aren't good enough. Or that they thought that your school isn't reputable enough to rank you higher.

Or is it that you didn't interview well??

I can't imagine he/she will give much of good response. Just will serve a plate of BS.

I believe where we match for residency has much to do with chance as our board scores.

 

[jschwartz]

I'm sure that everyone out there who got his or her second or third choice has considered this question. Is it tacky to contact the PD of your first choice program (that you didn't get) and politely ask why you were passed over? I got my second choice, which I'm still very happy with, but I can't stop thinking about why I wasn't ranked higher on the list of my first choice program. I don't have an over-inflated ego about the matter and I know I wasn't the standout candidate, but I felt like I was a solid candidate and got very good vibes from the first choice program. (Seems to be a common theme to get good vibes and they may mean nothing...) Applied to IM by the way, so not a very competitive specialty.

Sorry it didn't work out for you in terms of getting your top pick (I'm in the same boat here) but you gotta let it go dude...
Rank list is subjective, any answer you'd get by putting PD on the spot will be meaningless now. It's common for applicants to go with their gut in their final ranking of programs -- there are just too many good places, and not enough to objectively differentiate among them. It's the same deal from the programs' perspective too -- there may be lots of applicants they liked (hence the ubiquitous good vibes) but just happened to like some more than others. For all you know it may have boiled down to whoever was better looking so I wouldn't expect to be enlightened by pursuing the matter; just my dos pesos.

 

[lilycat]

I think if you explain exactly why you would like to know, that will help keep it from seeming tacky or whiny. Programs send us those emails -- I think its perfectly legitimate to send something like, "While I had ranked your program #1, I matched at X, and am very excited about training there in the future. However, I was wondering if you could give me any honest feedback about my application, now that the match is over. I feel that this information would be tremendously helpful to me when I apply to fellowship in a year and half, and also may help give me insight into ways I can continue to improve during residency."

At the same time, I think its helpful to remember that you were one of hundreds of applicants likely interviewed -- for all you know, you might have been ranked in a spot "to match" based on previous years' data, but this year was a tighter match; perhaps you missed matching at this program by 1 slot, etc. At a certain point, it does seem like it can be pretty random and that there may be all sorts of intangible factors at play -- gut feeling, several applicants "needing" to be at program X for personal reasons, etc.

 

[lowbudget]

It's kinda like dating... just delete the number from your cell phone, put old photos in a shoebox, and move on.

On the flip side, you may want to consider emailing all the programs that were at the bottom of your list and tell them why you rejected them. Better yet, write back that number 1 program you ranked and let them know that you actually rejected them first.

 

[ears]

Don't send the e-mail, even if you can craft it as diplomatically and gracefully as anyone would want.

Think about it from the PD's perspective. What can s/he actually say to you? S/he's never going to blurt out something like, "Your scores were too low" or "One of your letters said you constantly pick your nose." What s/he'll say is, "There were lots of great people this year, and there were just other people we fit with better than you."

Now imagine yourself hearing that, and it's almost the same as if you sent the e-mail, and got a reply!

BTW, I'm sympathetic. It's hard to be rejected; it hurts, and it makes you question yourself. I still smart from the biggest rejections in my life. Just go and give your all to the people who were smart enough to want you. Living well is the best revenge, and all of that.

Good luck.

 

[8744]

...I don't have an over-inflated ego about the matter...

Bless you. Of course you don't.

Dude. Let it go. If you hadn't matched anywhere then you could make a case for contacting the Program Director for his thoughts on what you could do to make yourself more competative.

 

[u_r_my_serenity]

I matched to my #2. I am not going to ask the PD at my #1 a damn thing, but I am going to write a candid report on scutwork around next year's match. The PD had me convinced I was ranked to match. He even started a long conversation with me about how it is ridiculous and dishonest for applicants and programs to lie about ranking the other highly, and how there is no reason for it. This was just before he told me, "if I had to attend the prorgam, find a way to let him know." So a week later I told him he was #1 and that I had to match to his program. Everything seemed set but on Match day I was passed over. These guys are like used car salesmen.

 

[phatfarm]

Don't send the e-mail, even if you can craft it as diplomatically and gracefully as anyone would want.

Think about it from the PD's perspective. What can s/he actually say to you? S/he's never going to blurt out something like, "Your scores were too low" or "One of your letters said you constantly pick your nose." What s/he'll say is, "There were lots of great people this year, and there were just other people we fit with better than you."

Now imagine yourself hearing that, and it's almost the same as if you sent the e-mail, and got a reply!

BTW, I'm sympathetic. It's hard to be rejected; it hurts, and it makes you question yourself. I still smart from the biggest rejections in my life. Just go and give your all to the people who were smart enough to want you. Living well is the best revenge, and all of that.

Good luck.

I didn't match into my top choices but wound up in a great program in an area that I won't mind living in. However, it still smarts getting passed up on. What makes me feel better is knowing that I'm going to work my arse off to be the best resident ever so when it comes to fellowship time, they are going to want me to go there. And you know what? I'm going to turn them down to go to an even better place. 👍

 

[locitamd]

It's kinda like dating... just delete the number from your cell phone, put old photos in a shoebox, and move on.

lol, as tempted as I am to send the email and ask why, I just realized that it's probably the equivalent of drunk dialing.

 

[Methyldopa]

On the flip side, you may want to consider emailing all the programs that were at the bottom of your list and tell them why you rejected them. Better yet, write back that number 1 program you ranked and let them know that you actually rejected them first.

That would be quite funny to do. But then again some programs do THAT! They send you questionaires to find out why you passed them up.

 

[inthedumps]

I think I'm probably going to just let it go. The farther away from MATCH day that I get, the less I think about it. But there's just this nagging feeling that I don't get it, I don't understand why I didn't match there. But hey, you're right, sometimes it's just best to let it go... You all raised some good points--some more eloquent than others. Thanks.

 

[angel80]

I matched into my #1, but got 2 e-mails: one from my #3 and one from my #4 program asking me why I didn't rank them #1. If programs are doing this to candidates, then I don't see why candidates can't do this to the programs.

 

[8744]

I think I'm probably going to just let it go. The farther away from MATCH day that I get, the less I think about it. But there's just this nagging feeling that I don't get it, I don't understand why I didn't match there. But hey, you're right, sometimes it's just best to let it go... You all raised some good points--some more eloquent than others. Thanks.

If you must know, I regret spending the money interviewing at the places where I dind't match, not to mention all of the people I pissed off getting time to interview and the red-eye flights I had to take to get back in time for morning rounds.

But I am perfectly happy where I matched. Maybe because I didn't match last year I have a greater appreciation of matching into a good specialty.

 

[8744]

I think I'm probably going to just let it go. The farther away from MATCH day that I get, the less I think about it. But there's just this nagging feeling that I don't get it, I don't understand why I didn't match there. But hey, you're right, sometimes it's just best to let it go... You all raised some good points--some more eloquent than others. Thanks.

It's like the MCAT. Once you get into medical school you quickly forget about it and never discuss it again. Just the proverbial water under the bridge.

 

[AnneMD]

I wouldn't call or email them to inquire about your not matching. If programs contact you to ask why you didn't rank them, I'd be honest and let them know. After doing this match thing for the 2nd time (I decided to change specialities).. I matched my first choices both times...the first time around, I looked for the more competitive program...this time around, having done residency before..I looked for a city I could live and enjoy every minute outside of the hospital in.

I've come to think that this entire match "concept" is really a crap shoot. And unless you're in a city and program where you are completely miserable, they are pretty much all the same.

 

[JShupe]

Hey inthedumps,
What specialty are you matching into? Just curious?

 

[CANES2006]

I wouldn't e-mail them. It's better to just move on. Hope you enjoy your residency next year. 🙂

 

[chicamedica]

I'm sure that everyone out there who got his or her second or third choice has considered this question. Is it tacky to contact the PD of your first choice program (that you didn't get) and politely ask why you were passed over? I got my second choice, which I'm still very happy with, but I can't stop thinking about why I wasn't ranked higher on the list of my first choice program. I don't have an over-inflated ego about the matter and I know I wasn't the standout candidate, but I felt like I was a solid candidate and got very good vibes from the first choice program. (Seems to be a common theme to get good vibes and they may mean nothing...) Applied to IM by the way, so not a very competitive specialty.

I'm considering emailing the PD of the program to ask why I wasn't considered more highly. Mostly because I'd like to know for my own edification and to better myself as a candidate for fellowship applications, job opportunities, etc. What do you think--is it tacky? Do PDs absolutely hate having this kind of contact after the MATCH?

Your thoughtful feedback is appreciated...

Heck yeah i've wondered this. I feel the same way as you. I am absolutely happy I matched where I did (and actually had considered ranking my match #1 but for the city it was in--which I both love and dread 😀 ). However, my actual #1 was a place that I'd rotated at (and where I was well liked by all who I worked with, and even honored the rotation). Not only did I not match there, but this program ended up with ONE UNFILLED SPOT. So obviously I wasn't ranked. What is beyond me is even though I demonstrated enough competence in the program to honor the rotation, they would rather take their chances with a scrambler or go short-staffed than risk getting me as a resident. 😕 Granted my interview wasn't that polished being my very first interview of the season, but I'd think since they had more info on me from my month there they'd go by more than the limited info from the interview. Anyway. . .it's history, but I'd be curious to find out what it was about me that made them make this choice.

 

[beary]

That would be quite funny to do. But then again some programs do THAT! They send you questionaires to find out why you passed them up.

I matched at my #2 and got one of these questionaires from my #1. 🙄

 

[chicamedica]

I matched at my #2 and got one of these questionaires from my #1. 🙄

You should be like "right back atcha!"

 

[Qafas]

The only reason any of us didn't match at any given place is that there were candidates who the selection committee felt were better than us for their spots. For you to get a true and meaningful response about why you were passed over, the PD would have to tell you how you were worse than the other candidates. Are you really worse? Who knows. It's a subjective process. If you interviewed any other day, with any other interviewer, you just might have been ranked one spot higher and that could've made all the difference. Don't torture yourself. The inquiry is moot.

 

[chicamedica]

The only reason any of us didn't match at any given place is that there were candidates who the selection committee felt were better than us for their spots. For you to get a true and meaningful response about why you were passed over, the PD would have to tell you how you were worse than the other candidates. Are you really worse? Who knows. It's a subjective process. If you interviewed any other day, with any other interviewer, you just might have been ranked one spot higher and that could've made all the difference. Don't torture yourself. The inquiry is moot.

There is a difference between not being ranked highly enough, and not being ranked at all, though. The latter just doesn't make too much sense to me considering my performance and evaluations there, and I'd be curious to find out why they chose not to rank me at all (vs. even rank me last), simply for purposes of improving myself.

 

[Qafas]

There is a difference between not being ranked highly enough, and not being ranked at all, though. The latter just doesn't make too much sense to me considering my performance and evaluations there, and I'd be curious to find out why they chose not to rank me at all (vs. even rank me last), simply for purposes of improving myself.

How do you know they didn't rank you at all? I don't think applicants are privy to that information; unless, of course, you ask the program if they ranked you or not. Also, it is highly unlikely that any information you get will help you improve for the future, which, I assume, means a fellowship. I think fellowships are a totally different game.

 

[phatfarm]

How do you know they didn't rank you at all? I don't think applicants are privy to that information; unless, of course, you ask the program if they ranked you or not. Also, it is highly unlikely that any information you get will help you improve for the future, which, I assume, means a fellowship. I think fellowships are a totally different game.

She did an away there, ranked them #1, matched below that, AND they went unfilled.

Chica, you couldn't have done any more than you did. If it makes you feel better, they are probably kicking themselves right now, realizing that they could have gotten you. Instead, they have to hope they got someone good in the scramble.

 

[Tappat]

There is a difference between not being ranked highly enough, and not being ranked at all, though. The latter just doesn't make too much sense to me considering my performance and evaluations there, and I'd be curious to find out why they chose not to rank me at all (vs. even rank me last), simply for purposes of improving myself.

Sorry to hear about that. If I were you, I would definitely write them a polite inquiry ... after a month or two. I'd want to know if there was something in my application to which I was entirely oblivious that was hurting me, for the purposes of 1) improving upon it and/or 2) not having it sink me again. Why would someone consider asking this to be tacky? Also possible (terrible, but possible), is simple administrative error on their end. Also, does your field have different kinds of spots? For example, in pathology you can apply for anatomic, clinical, or combined, and an unfilled spot at a program could be any one of these. We'll assume it's not an NRMP error, as that would just be too awful!

 

[chicamedica]

Sorry to hear about that. If I were you, I would definitely write them a polite inquiry ... after a month or two. I'd want to know if there was something in my application to which I was entirely oblivious that was hurting me, for the purposes of 1) improving upon it and/or 2) not having it sink me again. Why would someone consider asking this to be tacky? Also possible (terrible, but possible), is simple administrative error on their end. Also, does your field have different kinds of spots? For example, in pathology you can apply for anatomic, clinical, or combined, and an unfilled spot at a program could be any one of these. We'll assume it's not an NRMP error, as that would just be too awful!

Good advice actually. I may do that. Even if it was an error though, I actually wouldn't say that it was an awful thing. Even though I liked that program, and it's definitely top notch, I'm actually glad things worked out this way. I'm really excited to be going where i matched.

 

[chicamedica]

She did an away there, ranked them #1, matched below that, AND they went unfilled.

Chica, you couldn't have done any more than you did. If it makes you feel better, they are probably kicking themselves right now, realizing that they could have gotten you. Instead, they have to hope they got someone good in the scramble.

Yeah phatfarm, you got it. It's all right, I'm not upset about it. Just didn't make too much sense to me. Like Tappat suggested, it just makes me wonder what it was in my app that hurt me. . .I WOULD like to know that.

 

[locitamd]

At this point, has anyone contacted a PD and gotten any useful feedback? And if so, in what specialty?

 

[pruritis_ani]

I say contact them...I have recieved letters from programs asking why I did not rank them higher.

As long as you do it politely, and give them specific questions to answer, it could certainly be helpful.

 

[Yogi Bear]

well, i'm wondering if it were the case that the PD-X had thought that if school X has 15 spots, that if he ranked OP #9, that OP would automically match. However, PD-Y ranked OP #4 candidate, so despite OP ranking school X #1,

X = PD #9 + OP #1 = #10/2 = #5
Y = PD #4 + OP #2 = #6/2 = #3. So, since #3 < #5, OP matches at program Y. Not sure if this is how the match works.

 

[fuzzyerin]

well, i'm wondering if it were the case that the PD-X had thought that if school X has 15 spots, that if he ranked OP #9, that OP would automically match. However, PD-Y ranked OP #4 candidate, so despite OP ranking school X #1,

X = PD #9 + OP #1 = #10/2 = #5
Y = PD #4 + OP #2 = #6/2 = #3. So, since #3 < #5, OP matches at program Y. Not sure if this is how the match works.

I have no clue what your mathmatical calculation is, but that's not how the Match works - if the program has 15 spots, and you're ranked in those 15, and it's your number 1, you go there. Otherwise, you can do a search for how the Match works - it's been explained ad nausem and I'm too tired to do it again.

 

[Poety]

 

[Tinsley]

Damn Yogi. I thought you were smarter than the average bear!

 

[SoCuteMD]

Dup post.

 

[SoCuteMD]

well, i'm wondering if it were the case that the PD-X had thought that if school X has 15 spots, that if he ranked OP #9, that OP would automically match. However, PD-Y ranked OP #4 candidate, so despite OP ranking school X #1,

X = PD #9 + OP #1 = #10/2 = #5
Y = PD #4 + OP #2 = #6/2 = #3. So, since #3 < #5, OP matches at program Y. Not sure if this is how the match works.

I'm an MS1 and even I can tell you that no...this is NOT how the match works.

 

[8744]

I'm an MS1 and even I can tell you that no...this is NOT how the match works.

Please visit my humble blog. In the one of the ariticles on the Residency Match I discuss the actual algorithm to calculate the match. It is pretty simple, although the couples match probably complicates things a bit.

I mean really simple. They could really run it on a 1980's era Commodore 64.