Take vacation time to study for step3/level 3?

[Giovanotto]

What's the general consensus here, Yes or no?
Need to submit my vacation weeks by next week and was wondering whether or not to ask for vacation time off to study for this thing. Will be doing a prelim year. Thanks!

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[gutonc]

What's the general consensus here, Yes or no?
Need to submit my vacation weeks by next week and was wondering whether or not to ask for vacation time off to study for this thing. Will be doing a prelim year. Thanks!

Oh good lord no. I mean, I guess you could take a weekend off to study. But a whole week is a waste of limited vacation time.

I’ve said this before, I studied using UWorld QBank in my laptop at a bar a few nights a week for a few weeks before the test. I spent a few hours the day before going over the sample cases. All told I probably spent 20 hours studying. Score was 20+ points over 2CK.

 

[Piebaldi]

Oh good lord no. I mean, I guess you could take a weekend off to study. But a whole week is a waste of limited vacation time.

I’ve said this before, I studied using UWorld QBank in my laptop at a bar a few nights a week for a few weeks before the test. I spent a few hours the day before going over the sample cases. All told I probably spent 20 hours studying. Score was 20+ points over 2CK.

Maybe you are very bright or I am very stupid or both - but I don’t think that’s most peoples experience - the test is not easy. Were you a whiz in terms of stats/bio stats etc? There was a lot of random stuff there - not sure how anyone could just know it off the top of their head. What about pedal/ob? You just know that stuff?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Maybe you are very bright or I am very stupid or both - but I don’t think that’s most peoples experience - the test is not easy. Were you a whiz in terms of stats/bio stats etc? There was a lot of random stuff there - not sure how anyone could just know it off the top of their head. What about pedal/ob? You just know that stuff?

You don't need to know everything, you just need to know enough to pass. I'm in peds so I needed to review more than probably most people, and I still found that studying UWorld at night on an elective rotation was plenty of prep and beat my step 2 score by a wide margin. Assuming this is prelim IM, the OP will be studying 8-12 hours a day just by showing up to work.

OP, keep in mind that you're probably going to need to use a good chunk of your vacation time for interviews if you're reapplying. So unless you really struggled with steps 1 and 2 (ie failed and can't afford another fail on your record), I would just find a way to study during your prelim year.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Maybe you are very bright or I am very stupid or both - but I don’t think that’s most peoples experience - the test is not easy. Were you a whiz in terms of stats/bio stats etc? There was a lot of random stuff there - not sure how anyone could just know it off the top of their head. What about pedal/ob? You just know that stuff?

I took the test about 4 years after I finished med school, during general surgery residency. I studied some old books from med school on peds, internal medicine, and ob/gyn. I probably spent maybe a week's worth of reading on the evening and one weekend that I was on call both days with home call studying. I passed.

Imagine what I might have scored if I took it within a year of graduating...

This test isn't that hard.

 

[gutonc]

Maybe you are very bright or I am very stupid or both - but I don’t think that’s most peoples experience - the test is not easy. Were you a whiz in terms of stats/bio stats etc? There was a lot of random stuff there - not sure how anyone could just know it off the top of their head. What about pedal/ob? You just know that stuff?

It is far and away the easiest of the Steps. If you're an IM, EM, GS and probably even OB or Peds intern, you only need to spend a little bit of time brushing up on the stuff you don't do on a daily basis to pass this thing.
The old adage about exam prep stands:
Step 1: 2 months
Step 2: 2 weeks
Step 3: #2 pencil (notwithstanding most of the people currently taking Step 3 have probably never used a #2 pencil)

 

[Dr. Death]

What happens if you fail step 3? Just take it again right? Does anyone actually care if you fail apart from your bank account?

 

[Piebaldi]

I took the test about 4 years after I finished med school, during general surgery residency. I studied some old books from med school on peds, internal medicine, and ob/gyn. I probably spent maybe a week's worth of reading on the evening and one weekend that I was on call both days with home call studying. I passed.

Imagine what I might have scored if I took it within a year of graduating...

This test isn't that hard.

For me t was super hard. How do you know biostats/stats, peds, IM, ob so well? Not being snippy - hope it doesn't come across that way - truly wondering. I thought it was much harder than step 2.

 

[APA 32]

I wouldn't use vacation to study for it. You will need vacation to decompress. Just study a little bit everyday after work and a few hours on your off days for a couple months and you'll pass. I know people who studied less than that and still passed.

 

[Mad Jack]

I used a week but I'm in psychiatry lol. If I was in medicine no way.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

For me t was super hard. How do you know biostats/stats, peds, IM, ob so well? Not being snippy - hope it doesn't come across that way - truly wondering. I thought it was much harder than step 2.

I don't remember much in the way of stats on there. I read the review books for peds/im/ob. I managed enough to get a passing score. It wasn't great, but it was passing. That's all that really mattered there.

 

[Piebaldi]

I don't remember much in the way of stats on there. I read the review books for peds/im/ob. I managed enough to get a passing score. It wasn't great, but it was passing. That's all that really mattered there.

I suppose. I hand probably over 40 questions on biostats alone - again not easy for me but ok. perhaps others find it different.

 

[Apollyon]

I'm EM. I forgot all about it until near the end of my EM-3 (PGY-4) year. Took it cold. Passed EASILY.

Edit: autocorrect sucks. "Cold", not "child".

 

[calvinhobbes]

What happens if you fail step 3? Just take it again right? Does anyone actually care if you fail apart from your bank account?

the program may boot you, especially if GME says you have to have a passing score by a certain time... so don't take it if you're not ready

 

[Splenda88]

I don't know how was the test 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, but that test has a lot biostatistics on it the first day (~25%) and a lot of it are drug advertisements ... I studied for 6 wks ~4 hrs/day average, and still scored below average as an IM resident. Don't take that test too lightly.

Step 3 is harder than step 2CK in my opinion...

 

[Mass Effect]

I think everyone has different experiences and no one can say what one person needs. I agree that Step 3 is the easiest of the Steps, but some still need more time to study than others. If I was in a categorical, I'd chance it and plan on studying nights/weekends. If I was in a prelim, I'd take a week off to study to guarantee a pass.

 

[Mass Effect]

the program may boot you, especially if GME says you have to have a passing score by a certain time... so don't take it if you're not ready

Or take it early to plan for re-take if necessary. People who wait til the last minute may very well find themselves in the same place as those who waited to take Step 2 CS and then failed and scrambled to find a slot to have a passing score before program rank deadlines.

Always prepare for the earlier dates so that you have time to take it again if necessary.

 

[Mass Effect]

I wouldn't use vacation to study for it. You will need vacation to decompress. Just study a little bit everyday after work and a few hours on your off days for a couple months and you'll pass. I know people who studied less than that and still passed.

I mean, I also know people who got a 250 on Step 1. That doesn't mean that was my experience.

I think the difference in opinion here is the difference in specialties and timing of when you took (PGY 4 year?). I also think there are different tests. I took it with 30% psych whereas my psych co-resident who took it the year after me had maybe 5% psych. I also had a ton of neuro and OB, which I was very good at. My med school classmate had a lot of biostats, whereas I had one or two biostat questions on mine.

 

[Piebaldi]

I don't know how was the test 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, but that test has a lot biostatistics on it the first day (~25%) and a lot of it are drug advertisements ... I studied for 6 wks ~4 hrs/day average, and still scored below average as an IM resident. Don't take that test too lightly.

Step 3 is harder than step 2CK in my opinion...

Yes exactly, that was my experience as well. I personally never really got much of biostats in med school or residency so not sure how I would have known that. There's no way I could have just studied a week or two and passed. My test also had at least 40+ questions on biostats alone, not to mention those ridiculous drug ads that were insane. No way I could have known any of this without studying. And agreed - harder than step 2cK for sure.

 

[Piebaldi]

I mean, I also know people who got a 250 on Step 1. That doesn't mean that was my experience.

I think the difference in opinion here is the difference in specialties and timing of when you took (PGY 4 year?). I also think there are different tests. I took it with 30% psych whereas my psych co-resident who took it the year after me had maybe 5% psych. I also had a ton of neuro and OB, which I was very good at. My med school classmate had a lot of biostats, whereas I had one or two biostat questions on mine.

lucky you - the biostats part was rough.

 

[Raryn]

Biostats is 11-13% of the test - https://www.usmle.org/pdfs/step-3/content_Step3.pdf (PDF warning). But it's usually super simple stuff you should have learned for step 1 and 2.

I took step 3 after an EM block as an IM intern. I worked maybe 45 hours a week and studied in between. You need to study some - those cases are absolutely stupid and the interface is god awful, so at the very least you have to get comfortable with that - but definitely didn't take vacation for it nthst would be absolute overkill.

For what it's worth, I did worse on 3 than on 2, but I also kicked ass on 2.

 

[Piebaldi]

Biostats is 11-13% of the test - https://www.usmle.org/pdfs/step-3/content_Step3.pdf (PDF warning). But it's usually super simple stuff you should have learned for step 1 and 2.

I took step 3 after an EM block as an IM intern. I worked maybe 45 hours a week and studied in between. You need to study some - those cases are absolutely stupid and the interface is god awful, so at the very least you have to get comfortable with that - but definitely didn't take vacation for it nthst would be absolute overkill.

For what it's worth, I did worse on 3 than on 2, but I also kicked ass on 2.

The biostats was far more than 11-13% on my test.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think everyone has different experiences and no one can say what one person needs. I agree that Step 3 is the easiest of the Steps, but some still need more time to study than others. If I was in a categorical, I'd chance it and plan on studying nights/weekends. If I was in a prelim, I'd take a week off to study to guarantee a pass.

I kinda feel the opposite. Again, the OP is in a prelim year and will presumably be reapplying through ERAS for either a new PGY1 position or an advanced position. It’s not like you can just take off in the middle of a ward month to go interview, so if I were him I would do everything I can to save vacation time for interviews and possibly for moving at the end of the year.

Yes, it may be harder for some and easier for others. But there’s no reason that a person in IM shouldn’t be able to study at night and days off and be able to pull a passing score.

 

[Raryn]

The biostats was far more than 11-13% on my test.

While those percentages are subject to change at any time, they've stayed reasonable consistent over the years. Perhaps you just have some biostats PTSD and remember it being worse than it was. Or you had a form with an inordinate number of experimental biostats questions (which aren't counted towards your score). Regardless, the other 87+% of the test that counts is not biostats.

 

[RangerBob]

I planned to study for a whole week, but I got bored real quick. Probably did the equivalent of a 4 hours a day for a week. Just USMLE World and a review book to go over stuff I was getting wrong in the qbank.

The USMLE world simulation for the second part (clinical cases or whatever) was really helpful to get in the flow of things.

I was super nervous about the test, like all tests. I passed. Not great, not terrible. I didn’t care-it was over.

Keep in mind if you’re doing a well-rounded intern year, you’re prepping for step 3. I just had to review some peds, OB, gen surg, and some harder IM concepts.

FM residents may as well push step 3 off as late as they can (maybe allow wiggle room for a retake if needed) because their entire residency is prepping them. They probably don’t need to study aside from running through practice cases to get back in the flow of test-taking and understand how the clinical scenarios work

 

[jurassicpark]

As everyone said, like every step you've taken it will be variable in content and user-dependent so to speak 🙂. But I remember it was a fun test. As an internist, it was pretty much what I did day in and out, and the simulated cases were fast and fun for me to do.

LUCKILY I did not have many stats questions, would've failed if I did. Nor did I have too many peds or OB-GYN. How did I know I did know? My score was very good and the distribution showed I had almost nothing right in those categories

It will essentially come down to how prepared you are as in any Step you've taken. How are you doing on the qbanks, simulated cases, etc. Are you comfortable with mostly medical management questions? If you need to use vacation time, don't let anyone here tell you you don't need too. Only you know that answer.

 

[Piebaldi]

I planned to study for a whole week, but I got bored real quick. Probably did the equivalent of a 4 hours a day for a week. Just USMLE World and a review book to go over stuff I was getting wrong in the qbank.

The USMLE world simulation for the second part (clinical cases or whatever) was really helpful to get in the flow of things.

I was super nervous about the test, like all tests. I passed. Not great, not terrible. I didn’t care-it was over.

Keep in mind if you’re doing a well-rounded intern year, you’re prepping for step 3. I just had to review some peds, OB, gen surg, and some harder IM concepts.

FM residents may as well push step 3 off as late as they can (maybe allow wiggle room for a retake if needed) because their entire residency is prepping them. They probably don’t need to study aside from running through practice cases to get back in the flow of test-taking and understand how the clinical scenarios work

Out of curiosity, how did you get through 2000 questions on Uworld in 4 days?

 

[Raryn]

Out of curiosity, how did you get through 2000 questions on Uworld in 4 days?

He probably did less than the full 2000 questions. As did I - I think I got through just under two thirds of it for step 3. Most people I know were similar - did some proportion of Uworld and then a bunch of the cases.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I didn't take any dedicated time for Step 3. I did most of UWorld during the evenings or weekends when I had time over the span of a month prior to my test date. I thought it was comparable to Step 2 CK.

As opposed to Step 1 or Step 2, I went into Step 3 like, "**** it, I'll probably pass."

I did have a fair amount of statistics, but I like statistics, so it wasn't something I found difficult.

 

[Giovanotto]

I kinda feel the opposite. Again, the OP is in a prelim year and will presumably be reapplying through ERAS for either a new PGY1 position or an advanced position. It’s not like you can just take off in the middle of a ward month to go interview, so if I were him I would do everything I can to save vacation time for interviews and possibly for moving at the end of the year.

Yes, it may be harder for some and easier for others. But there’s no reason that a person in IM shouldn’t be able to study at night and days off and be able to pull a passing score.

Should have clarified, this is an A/P joint program. No reapplying necessary.

 

[hmockingbird]

I took it a few years ago as peds PGY-1. (We were told to take it intern year in case we had to retake and so we’d hopefully remember the adult stuff from med school lol.) I didn’t take any vacation but took it during an elective. I did u world questions for a few weeks prior and got through maybe half of them. It was more for review; I think if I’d been in an FM or IM residency I wouldn’t have even needed to do that. I also reviewed biostats and how to work the cases. I just found the test kind of tiring because it was so long, but not super difficult. I did feel like there was a lot of stats but nothing too complicated, similar to the other steps. I ended up doing well and probably didn’t need to study as much as I did. But I did feel like going over stats and using the case software was the most helpful.

 

[clausewitz2]

I"m in psych so I scheduled Step 3 immediately after my last inpatient medicine rotation because it seemed like an ideal time (I was only going to get rustier from there on out). I did UWorld qbank over the course of a few weeks while on that rotation, mostly in downtime at work and/or instead of attempting to sleep on overnight call in the easychair in the team workroom. Like for Step 2, I went through all the questions, read explanations for ones I got wrong, then repeated all the ones I got wrong, repeated the ones I got wrong again, and so on and so forth until I had gotten them all right. Maybe six hours total over like 15 days? I read very fast, YMMV.


I think I logged in to UWorld on a desktop once or twice to try the simulated cases but I found them really obnoxious and so wrote them off. The OB cases were rough.

I actually had no idea what my score was until I was renewing my license last month. I just opened the attachment, saw the first page saying I passed, and moved on with my day. I think I was a bit above average for the year I took it, but not by that much. For reference I had a very "meh" step 1 score and crushed Step 2. The MC questions felt like stuff that had been cut from Step 2.

I know stats can be tricky and non-intuitive, but I am not sure how you can consume biomedical literature on a level more sophisticated than scanning the abstract and conclusion without the concepts on that exam.

 

[DocVapor]

For the D.O.'s out there, I think this is the first year that Level 3 went to 2 days, correct? It likely still is the easiest of the exams, but it's likely very different from when I took it even 3 years ago. So for any D.O.'s wondering what to do, I'm sorry you won't be able to find a whole lot of guidance that's truly useful for a least another few years. Thus, plan to do at least some amount of prep.

 

[BLmd2008]

Hi! Can someone please tell me how to do WELL on USMLE step 3? I have been out of the medicine track for 5 years. Want to finish the USMLE series and do well on this last test. I failed Step 1. Then passed it with an average score. Barely passed Step 2. I want to do well on Step 3. Been studying on and off since Feb with a very demanding full time job. My exam is in 2 months. I haven't done the cases yet nor biostats. I'm 50% done with the questions and I'm only averaging around 52%. I thought the best thing was to hit the questions instead of delaying on them. But I feel like after being away from Medicine for so long, I'm missing even basic questions like (what is the therapy for ALS!? - these are easy questions if you know the answer!! 🙂)So, should I halt and hit a book like MTB and go back to questions? Maybe go through Step up to medicine or open old First Aid for Step 1?!? Really would appreciate help here. I want and need to do well on this exam. Please help!!

 

[Apollyon]

You just gotta pass. Period. SERIOUSLY, no one cares about a Step III score. Seriously. If you are taking the exam, you've already gotten into whichever residency you wanted/got.

Just pass!!

 

[CopaceticOne]

Hi! Can someone please tell me how to do WELL on USMLE step 3? I have been out of the medicine track for 5 years. Want to finish the USMLE series and do well on this last test. I failed Step 1. Then passed it with an average score. Barely passed Step 2. I want to do well on Step 3. Been studying on and off since Feb with a very demanding full time job. My exam is in 2 months. I haven't done the cases yet nor biostats. I'm 50% done with the questions and I'm only averaging around 52%. I thought the best thing was to hit the questions instead of delaying on them. But I feel like after being away from Medicine for so long, I'm missing even basic questions like (what is the therapy for ALS!? - these are easy questions if you know the answer!! 🙂)So, should I halt and hit a book like MTB and go back to questions? Maybe go through Step up to medicine or open old First Aid for Step 1?!? Really would appreciate help here. I want and need to do well on this exam. Please help!!

Are you doing the Uworld questions in tutor mode? There is always First Aid for Step 3. Really, if you've struggled with the prior steps, you are already at risk for Step 3. You probably don't want to hear it, but you need to make this test your main priority if it is really that important to take it in two months.

Based on the post, it seems like you aren't in residency. Are you taking Step 3 in an effort to obtain a spot? If yes, you really can't afford to fail this exam based on your history.

 

[APA 32]

Hi! Can someone please tell me how to do WELL on USMLE step 3? I have been out of the medicine track for 5 years. Want to finish the USMLE series and do well on this last test. I failed Step 1. Then passed it with an average score. Barely passed Step 2. I want to do well on Step 3. Been studying on and off since Feb with a very demanding full time job. My exam is in 2 months. I haven't done the cases yet nor biostats. I'm 50% done with the questions and I'm only averaging around 52%. I thought the best thing was to hit the questions instead of delaying on them. But I feel like after being away from Medicine for so long, I'm missing even basic questions like (what is the therapy for ALS!? - these are easy questions if you know the answer!! 🙂)So, should I halt and hit a book like MTB and go back to questions? Maybe go through Step up to medicine or open old First Aid for Step 1?!? Really would appreciate help here. I want and need to do well on this exam. Please help!!

Would review onlinemeded videos along with Uworld. I liked ccscases.com for the cases better than uworld.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

You just gotta pass. Period. SERIOUSLY, no one cares about a Step III score. Seriously. If you are taking the exam, you've already gotten into whichever residency you wanted/got.

Just pass!!

I'm pretty sure step 3 doesn't require any gme to take, just graduate medical school.

 

[Apollyon]

I'm pretty sure step 3 doesn't require any gme to take, just graduate medical school.

Yeah, I forgot about that!

 

[BLmd2008]

Are you doing the Uworld questions in tutor mode? There is always First Aid for Step 3. Really, if you've struggled with the prior steps, you are already at risk for Step 3. You probably don't want to hear it, but you need to make this test your main priority if it is really that important to take it in two months.

Based on the post, it seems like you aren't in residency. Are you taking Step 3 in an effort to obtain a spot? If yes, you really can't afford to fail this exam based on your history.

Thank you so much for your reply and help!
i'm doing questions in test mode. My plan is to finish off the USMLE question bank at 50% and then read MTB cover to cover in depth - taking about a week and then hit the questions again.

 

[BLmd2008]

Would review onlinemeded videos along with Uworld. I liked ccscases.com for the cases better than uworld.

Thank you for your help!! Will look into cases and onlinemeded. Been away from medicine for 5 years.

 

[CopaceticOne]

Thank you so much for your reply and help!
i'm doing questions in test mode. My plan is to finish off the USMLE question bank at 50% and then read MTB cover to cover in depth - taking about a week and then hit the questions again.

Use untimed tutor mode for studying!!!!! Test mode is only really good for people who seem to run out of time when actually taking exams.

Why am I pushing tutor mode?: It gives you instant feedback about where your thought process was right/wrong for a given question. You can immediately see if your gut reaction for questions you weren't sure about is correct. When you try to go back and review answers after doing a block of questions in test mode, you already have mental fatigue & likely can't consistently remember all the reasons you chose the answer you did. In fact, many times you can fool yourself into thinking you knew to proper reasoning for answers you luckily got correct.

 

[BLmd2008]

Use untimed tutor mode for studying!!!!! Test mode is only really good for people who seem to run out of time when actually taking exams.

Why am I pushing tutor mode?: It gives you instant feedback about where your thought process was right/wrong for a given question. You can immediately see if your gut reaction for questions you weren't sure about is correct. When you try to go back and review answers after doing a block of questions in test mode, you already have mental fatigue & likely can't consistently remember all the reasons you chose the answer you did. In fact, many times you can fool yourself into thinking you knew to proper reasoning for answers you luckily got correct.

Excellent advice - I will try this!
I also have a terrible time with sitting and getting through these exams. By the time a set of questions is done, I'm exhausted and going through each question is even more painstaking.
But tutor mode sounds like solid advice!! Let me see how this goes.
Planning on taking the 1st review exam after all the 1606 questions are done. Then after another review of all wrong questions - taking the next review exam.
Do you recommend NBME exams to gauge where I'm at? Is it better than the USMLE (2) exams? Which NBME exam do you recommend?
As I've been away from anything Medicine related for 5 years, I can't thank you enough for your advice and help!!

 

[CopaceticOne]

Do you recommend NBME exams to gauge where I'm at? Is it better than the USMLE (2) exams? Which NBME exam do you recommend?
As I've been away from anything Medicine related for 5 years, I can't thank you enough for your advice and help!!

Sadly I have no knowledge of these exams. I generally don't have time issues & since I did a fairly rigorous IM intern year I focused my studying on peds and other things I didn't get much exposure to.

Maybe someone else can provide some insight on the usefulness of these exams.

One thing to pay closer attention to as you near the exam date is preparing for the simulations. The user interface is clunky and some of the available choices aren't normal things I choose where I'm at (such as the available anti-emetics). So run through the downloadable program they offer and try out all of the inputs you may want. This will help immensely on test day. (I remember in learning the interface screaming in my apartment because I couldn't figure out how to order what I wanted to do, eventually I figured it out but it took time. And of course I did place the same order during exam day, but it took no time at all because I knew what to type.)

 

[APA 32]

Most people I know didn’t take the NBMEs only the Uworld practice exams. The one person who took the NBME said it was a waste of time.

 

[BLmd2008]

Most people I know didn’t take the NBMEs only the Uworld practice exams. The one person who took the NBME said it was a waste of time.

Have any of you heard of Archer USMLE Review? I know you already mentioned CCScases.com I took a look at that yesterday. Wondering which is better.. already going to do Uworld. Really disappointed because my average is right around 50-52% and I've finished 50% of the questions. The only solace is this: I'm taking these questions as total REVIEW. so what if I get 50% of them wrong now? I'll get them right on the test! At least that's my logic. I'm learning with every single question that I get correct/incorrect! As I said earlier, this weekend my plan is to go over Master the boards cover to cover. Really appreciate "thinking" out loud here and getting invaluable help/advice from experts here!!! THANK YOU!!

 

[APA 32]

I heard of archer but have no experience with it. I think if you work through uworld, the cases and review your weak areas using onlinemeded you’ll be ok. Don’t get bogged down with too many resources just pick 2 or 3 and master those.

 

[Gos81238ia]

What's the general consensus here, Yes or no?
Need to submit my vacation weeks by next week and was wondering whether or not to ask for vacation time off to study for this thing. Will be doing a prelim year. Thanks!

If you can time it so that you can take it at the end of or shortly after a slightly easier/more chill rotation, then you don't need vacation time. Maybe a weekend off before you take it and consider taking two weekdays off to actually write it. Just do Uworld, do a block a day 4-5x/week and you'll get it done.