Take what you read here about new grads with a grain of salt

[Soleus715]

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I don't usually create my own threads, but I think this really needs to be said.

Many people on SDN are clearly very impressionable, seeing how the recent posts from dentists are creating tons of threads asking about saturation, loans, lifestyle, etc.

We have to be smart here and think about the reasons why a dentist would post about their experience on SDN.
Remember they have absolutely ZERO obligation to do so.

Whether it is because they are doing awful and hate their job OR they are really successful and want to share how they got there, the reasons are diverse. For right or wrong reasons, their opinions may be having more impact than they should.

What we see is a very small sample size of what it really is like to be a new dentist. And they tend to be examples on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of success. I hope you can see where I'm going with this.

Please don't let your goals be negatively affected by their opinions. I am not saying that we should dismiss them completely either because they are very valuable personal experiences. Rather, take the facts from what they posted and research on what concerns you. Learn from their mistakes/successes. The more prepared you are, the less you'll be surprised as you venture into dentistry.

 

[Mascota]

I agree with the OP that the people who are motivated enough to post will generally be on the two extremes of the spectrum. We all want to make the big $$$ but for those of us in dental school or entering this year our future income is based purely on speculation. Something we can calculate with decent accuracy is our student loan debt and our monthly payments after we graduate. I've uploaded an excel sheet originally posted by someone name Bereno that will be an objective gauge of your financial prospects.

This is by far the best student debt/monthly payment/take home income calculator I've found on the internet.

You can put in your income, student loan debt for graduate school and undergrad, practice loan, mortgage and car payments. It automatically deducts state and federal income tax, which a lot of people overlook.

As you'll see, 400k is no laughing matter and will have a major impact on your future 'dentist' lifestyle.

 

[aznriptide859]

...have to be smart here...take the facts from what they posted and research on what concerns you.

You'd think us pre-dents would have already developed these skills in college 😛

 

[bjpenn]

I don't usually create my own threads, but I think this really needs to be said.

Please don't let your goals be affected by their opinions. I am not saying that we should dismiss them completely either. Rather, take the facts from what they posted and research on what concerns you. Learn from their mistakes/successes. The more prepared you are, the less you'll be surprised as you venture into dentistry.

Totally agree with the OP. Maybe some of you guys think I'm too negative or whatever. Make no mistake that I have been VERY successful since graduating. For all you pre-dents, there is no guarantee to your success. Life happens, and there are many things out of your control. Hard work doesn't guarantee success, it just increases your chances. I don't gain anything by contributing to sdn except that I want to make sure you guys are prepared from the START.

 

[ReptileDisfunction]

 

[ajj70]

I agree with the OP that the people who are motivated enough to post will generally be on the two extremes of the spectrum. We all want to make the big $$$ but for those of us in dental school or entering this year our future income is based purely on speculation. Something we can calculate with decent accuracy is our student loan debt and our monthly payments after we graduate. I've uploaded an excel sheet originally posted by someone name Bereno that will be an objective gauge of your financial prospects.

This is by far the best student debt/monthly payment/take home income calculator I've found on the internet.

You can put in your income, student loan debt for graduate school and undergrad, practice loan, mortgage and car payments. It automatically deducts state and federal income tax, which a lot of people overlook.

As you'll see, 400k is no laughing matter and will have a major impact on your future 'dentist' lifestyle.

So, in your opinion, if the only school you get into will cost 400K, you are better off going into some other field????? See, the way I look at it is, get rid of the student loan debt or at least make a major dent in it before you start piling on more debt. Buying a practice is fine since that is all income producing debt, just like your student loans technically are, but hold off on the big house, fancy car, etc. until you have paid off your loans.....

Also, you are automatically assuming NO salary increases in your figures????? Add in an income increase over time and the numbers are a lot better. I know we can manipulate the figures but still. Then, what about deductions on your taxes? If you have a mortgage, wife, children, that will reduce your AGI and your overall taxes. Sure, it's a nice estimate, but like many of us said on the other thread, after loans, having 20K to live off in many parts of the country is completely doable! No, you will be living in a cardboard box if you want to practice in Manhattan with that take home, but that's not the only place to live.

 

[oralcare123]

My advise would be to get as much practical experience and get good speed at school. This way you would not need "years" to get good production, like some said

 

[Mascota]

So, in your opinion, if the only school you get into will cost 400K, you are better off going into some other field????? See, the way I look at it is, get rid of the student loan debt or at least make a major dent in it before you start piling on more debt. Buying a practice is fine since that is all income producing debt, just like your student loans technically are, but hold off on the big house, fancy car, etc. until you have paid off your loans.....

Also, you are automatically assuming NO salary increases in your figures????? Add in an income increase over time and the numbers are a lot better. I know we can manipulate the figures but still. Then, what about deductions on your taxes? If you have a mortgage, wife, children, that will reduce your AGI and your overall taxes. Sure, it's a nice estimate, but like many of us said on the other thread, after loans, having 20K to live off in many parts of the country is completely doable! No, you will be living in a cardboard box if you want to practice in Manhattan with that take home, but that's not the only place to live.

The point of the excel sheet is for people to put in their own estimated figures, salary increases, etc.. Even if you start with a typical 120k salary an give yourself an 10k increase each year you are going to plateau at some point as an associate. Even with a 180k salary as an associate a lot of your income will go to student loans. Deductions are great and all but to get the mortgage deduction you'll need to buy a house which will take away from your ability to pay off student loans, same goes for a practice, which will increase your income but will add a significant debt payment each month. So yeah, you can get those deductions, but when you do the math the deductions you receive aren't going to make that big of a difference since, as you pointed, it requires either more debt, kids, spouse, etc. which are all money-out expenses (unless your spouse works). I agree that you can live off 20k, I did it growing up, and if you're like me I'm very happy with the simple things in life.

One of the big reasons I'm writing this is because I've talked to enough students in my dental class to see that most (not all) of them are expecting a nice car, nice house, cushy life style, and to be rolling in money right when they graduate. After all they have a Dr. title and have sacrificed 4 extra years of their life, right? The fact that those were the primary driving forces in their going to dental school, which I don't necessarily think is bad, means they're going to have a harsh reality check after graduating and may end up majorly disillusioned with their career choice.

What I'm trying to get at is this: educate yourself, know what you're getting into, and if after that point you still want to be a dentist then go for it! If not then maybe this career path isn't right for you and you'll be much happier doing something else, that's okay too.

Disappointment is when expectations don't align with reality.

 

[Incis0r]

Disappointment is when expectations don't align with reality.

Beautifully said.

 

[ajj70]

The point of the excel sheet is for people to put in their own estimated figures, salary increases, etc.. Even if you start with a typical 120k salary an give yourself an 10k increase each year you are going to plateau at some point as an associate. Even with a 180k salary as an associate a lot of your income will go to student loans. Deductions are great and all but to get the mortgage deduction you'll need to buy a house which will take away from your ability to pay off student loans, same goes for a practice, which will increase your income but will add a significant debt payment each month. So yeah, you can get those deductions, but when you do the math the deductions you receive aren't going to make that big of a difference since, as you pointed, it requires either more debt, kids, spouse, etc. which are all money-out expenses (unless your spouse works). I agree that you can live off 20k, I did it growing up, and if you're like me I'm very happy with the simple things in life.

One of the big reasons I'm writing this is because I've talked to enough students in my dental class to see that most (not all) of them are expecting a nice car, nice house, cushy life style, and to be rolling in money right when they graduate. After all they have a Dr. title and have sacrificed 4 extra years of their life, right? The fact that those were the primary driving forces in their going to dental school, which I don't necessarily think is bad, means they're going to have a harsh reality check after graduating and may end up majorly disillusioned with their career choice.

What I'm trying to get at is this: educate yourself, know what you're getting into, and if after that point you still want to be a dentist then go for it! If not then maybe this career path isn't right for you and you'll be much happier doing something else, that's okay too.

Disappointment is when expectations don't align with reality.

Ok, fair enough. With all of the Debbie Downer posts on here it's just getting old. Yes, the ones you are talking about that want it all the second they step out the door of dental school are in for a harsh reality, but those of us that have put some thought into this, are willing to live a simple life for a few years until we get our feet under us..and don't need to practice in LA, NYC, etc. are most likely going to be just fine.