Taking a 5th year before internship?

[GoPokes]

Hi all,

Seeking some advice here. Currently a 4th year doc student, potentially applying to pre-doc internship this Fall. Something I've been considering is taking a 5th year to finish my dissertation, increase my competitiveness through gaining more hours, and getting to move to where my significant other is located while I wait to apply. Has anyone here taken a 5th year before applying? Seeking advice. Thanks!

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[erg923]

I actually did 4+1 but 5+1 is probably much more common these days, with 6+1 being not all that uncommon either.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

As erg mentioned, 5+1 is becoming very common nowadays (may actually be the norm at this point). If the 5th year were going to be spent solely on gathering additional hours, I'd say to forego and just apply now. However, if there's the real possibility of having your dissertation defended prior to beginning internship, then that could be a huge advantage...not just from an application competitiveness standpoint, but for the sake of your own quality of life as well.

 

[Ollie123]

Years to graduate have actually gone DOWN dramatically from a couple decades ago. One of my mentors was considered to have "rushed" through Wisconsin in 6+1 and 7-8 years was more the norm. No one will bat an eye at 5, as I actually think the mean time is over that (at least at traditional programs). That said, I wouldn't do it for vague reasons. If you legitimately don't think your dissertation will get done otherwise, that's a good one. Being with your SO is obviously a good one, though I'm not sure how much you will increase your competitiveness if you are moving away, presumably will need a job to support yourself that may or may not be directly related to what you do, etc.

There is always the possibility of applying selectively for internships to only the places you'd be REALLY thrilled to attend and being okay with not matching. Had a couple colleagues who did this - some it worked out and others didn't match for reasons that they largely anticipated and took the extra year to focus on those.

 

[cara susanna]

I took a fifth year and it was extremely uncommon in my program (they really push 4+1). I am very happy that I did. I don't think I would have been competitive as a fourth year appliant, anyway.

 

[psychRA]

The 5+1 timeline is pretty much standard in my program. Some people end up waiting an additional year before applying, but funding for years 5-6 has been drying up (program is fully funded) and so people don't tend to stay on for a 6th year unless their lab has funding available for them.

 

[PhDToBe]

5+1 is pretty standard in my program too, although many do 4+1 and a few do 6+1. If you're going to be funded and spending the year getting more experience in your specific area, I think it will make you more competitive. Being further along in your dissertation will also make you more competitive.

 

[deleted343839]

In my program 5+1 and 6+1 were pretty common, and 4+1 was considered rushed. If you think you can defend your dissertation in your 5th year and you have a source of funding, go for it.

 

[President_LeslieKnope]

My program is moving more from 5+1 to 4+1 but this is mainly due to funding (we are ally fully funded). Both of these are acceptable, as is 6+1, though 6th year students aren't guaranteed funding so its more of a gamble (our program is generally really good at getting funding for all students though even 6th year).

 

[PsychPhDone]

My program's standard is 5+1 (with a few students doing 6+1 and the rare 4+1). I did 5+1.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I was much more competitive doing 5+1 than at 4+1, FWIW.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Fortunately, we have some statistics on this topic
https://appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2012Part1.aspx
2012 Stats

7. Including the current (2011-2012) academic year, how many years
have you been enrolled in your CURRENT doctoral program (excluding
any time spent in other doctoral or masters programs):

This is my 2nd year 21 1%
This is my 3rd year 356 12%
This is my 4th year 1249 43%
This is my 5th year 844 29%
This is my 6th year 308 11%
This is my 7th year 91 3%
This is my 8th year 17 1%
This is my 9th year 10 0%
This is my 10th year 4 0%
This is my 11th (or later) year 4 0%

the mode is 4 years prior to internship, which surprises me. However, 44% take 5 or more.

I wouldn't be surprised if this differed by program types. My adviser wanted to me stay as long as I could to be more productive on the research end. 5+1 was the mode, 4+1 was rare , more than 5+1 was not uncommon.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Fortunately, we have some statistics on this topic
https://appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2012Part1.aspx
2012 Stats


the mode is 4 years prior to internship, which surprises me. However, 44% take 5 or more.

I wouldn't be surprised if this differed by program types. My adviser wanted to me stay as long as I could to be more productive on the research end. 5+1 was the mode, 4+1 was rare , more than 5+1 was not uncommon.

It'd also be interesting to look at the rates of matching for 4th year, 5th year, and 6th year students. I'm pretty sure those numbers are available, but I unfortunately don't have the time to look for them currently. And I agree, I also wonder if it might vary by program type.

 

[WisNeuro]

It'd also be interesting to look at the rates of matching for 4th year, 5th year, and 6th year students. I'm pretty sure those numbers are available, but I unfortunately don't have the time to look for them currently. And I agree, I also wonder if it might vary by program type.

I would bet money that it varies by program type. I imagine the student applying for the first time in their 4th year from a reputable program has vastly different rates than the Argosy/Alliant's applying for their second time in their 4th years.

 

[cara susanna]

It'd also be interesting to look at the rates of matching for 4th year, 5th year, and 6th year students. I'm pretty sure those numbers are available, but I unfortunately don't have the time to look for them currently. And I agree, I also wonder if it might vary by program type.

You can find them here http://appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2012Part2.aspx

8. Years enrolled in current doctoral program (includes the
current academic year; excludes other graduate programs;
does not include year of internship):
2nd Year Match rate = 48% n = 21
3rd Year Match rate = 67% n = 356
4th Year Match rate = 78% n = 1249
5th Year Match rate = 83% n = 844
6th Year Match rate = 78% n = 308
7th Year Match rate = 76% n = 91
8th Year or greater Match rate = 54% n = 35
NOTE: The above rates should be interpreted cautiously due
to low n's in some categories.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

You can find them here http://appic.org/Match/MatchStatistics/ApplicantSurvey2012Part2.aspx

I think what's most interesting to me is that almost half of people in their 2nd year matched (which, admittedly, was only 21 people). I'd imagine most of those had to be unaccredited, given the requirement at many of the sites to which I applied that folks be at least 3rd or 4th year students.

 

[erg923]

I think what's most interesting to me is that almost half of people in their 2nd year matched (which, admittedly, was only 21 people). I'd imagine most of those had to be unaccredited, given the requirement at many of the sites to which I applied that folks be at least 3rd or 4th year students.

How is that even possible. I was still a total idiot in my second year...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

How is that even possible. I was still a total idiot in my second year...

Seriously though…I didn't even know what I didn't know because I had one year of practica and a TON of learning to still do. Yikes.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

the other surprising stat is 8th year or later students matching at a low rate.

 

[WisNeuro]

the other surprising stat is 8th year or later students matching at a low rate.

I'm not all that surprised, depends on why those individuals are taking 8 years...

 

[Ollie123]

I assumed it was folks matching in unaccredited sites or folks who had some otherwise weird situation and were not "legitimately" second-years (i.e. terminal masters at the same school and then transferred into the PhD program). Or just flat out people who didn't fill things out correctly and matched anyways. Its a small enough N and I'm sure some people screw up the application.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I assumed it was folks matching in unaccredited sites or folks who had some otherwise weird situation and were not "legitimately" second-years (i.e. terminal masters at the same school and then transferred into the PhD program). Or just flat out people who didn't fill things out correctly and matched anyways. Its a small enough N and I'm sure some people screw up the application.

This was my take as well; I just thought it was interesting, particularly if any of those students were indeed true second years.

 

[SmithPsy24]

I assume that PsyD students are pulling down that average - in my program 4+1 was the expected standard although 5+1 happens fairly often (in my cohort it was about 50% of us, and for some reason many of us were older students) I used the extra year to complete and defend my dissertation and do an additional practicum in an area that explored some new areas for me.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I think what's most interesting to me is that almost half of people in their 2nd year matched (which, admittedly, was only 21 people). I'd imagine most of those had to be unaccredited, given the requirement at many of the sites to which I applied that folks be at least 3rd or 4th year students.

At least some of these could be respecialization folks.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I am taking a 5th year because I wanted to flush out a few more publications as well as build research databases to use during internship year to prepare for a future career. In doing so, it allowed me the opportunity to finish and defend my dissertation before applications as well, which is a nice competitive edge. I added a bit more clinical work, but my goal was research given my ultimate aspirations of a professorship.

It all depends on your aspirations and level of preparedness. In my experience, I think that a vast number of the interns who go out are under-prepared without it mattering the type of program that they come from. While recent trends may be reduced length of program (a good thing imho), it seems as though that the critical element missing from that is an increase in content take-away during the same time.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Almost did a 5th year; we had to have our first diss. draft submitted prior to internship application time and I had been having problems with IRB lackadaisicalness which then led to some data collection problems on my end. Ended up getting it through and being able to apply, but for a hot sec I had rationalized in my mind how great that extra year would be with only dissertation to do (it probably would've just ended up me hanging out with friends and being unproductive). Glad I didn't now though, looking back.

 

[GoPokes]

OP here.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I think the tough part for me is deciding whether my interest in a 5th year is out of sheer desire to be more competitive, or just an avoidance strategy to cope with my anxiety as the deadline for applying moves closer.

The 5th year (for me) would primarily be spent accruing more intervention hours and finishing my dissertation. Though, in taking a closer look at sites, I feel like I can probably at least achieve the minimum cut off hours.