Taking a sixth year for research?

[Dazen]

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Hi all,

I know this has been talked about before on here, but would love any advice you might have in considering to take a sixth year in a five year program. I'm primarily research focused and have had reasonable productivity for my first two years and change (2 pubs and 4 under review, two of which are first author). I've also submitted three IRBs this semester, so I have some projects I'm excited about that are in their earlier stages too. I've generally been pretty ahead on milestones (defended my masters spring of my second year, have almost 300 f2f hours). However, I'm currently trying to apply for the December deadline of the F31 and am worried that I'll have to push back until April given how overloaded I was this semester with other work. Best case scenario if I apply in April, I wouldn't be able to be funded until halfway through my fourth year. Worst case where I receive funding would have me looking at my fifth year only being funded. I'd prefer not to give up the chance for this fellowship and taking advantage of its many opportunities, but I also don't want to necessarily delay my graduation if it won't make much difference. I recognize that taking on too many responsibilities this semester, while beneficial for my career generally, took away from my writing time and accept those consequences.

I'm going to put my head down and try to finish the app in the time I have left and certainly am not going to make a decision now about when I'll apply for internship. Curious what considerations I might be missing or any thoughts you all have?

 

[jdawg2017]

I believe you can always take an F31 for less than the maximum 3 years of funding. Of course, more time is definitely better. I knew a few students in my program who took a 6th year for research, but 5 years (6 with internship) is more common.

I’d personally try to get the submission in this cycle (if you are *mostly* ready and just trying to refine the grant draft) as it’s common to not be discussed or funded on the first try. If your idea and materials aren’t really fleshed out, then you probably are too late depending on your institution’s internal grant deadline (for my F31 I had to turn it in to our internal grants office 2 weeks before the actual deadline).

Having had an F31, I definitely think it was helpful in me landing a solid internship and post-doc, and the little bit of funding they provide was great for my training (conferences + workshops). That said, I know a lot of very successful researchers who didn’t get an F award and I got mine early in my training, so I can’t speak to the trade off between getting one and extending your time in grad school.

 

[cotn_psych]

I took a 6th year, partly because I didn't match the first time I applied to internship but also because I was more research focused and had not accrued the hours I needed to be competitive clinically. That 6th year was probably the best year I had in grad school. Classes were done and I had a lot of time to do some in-depth clinical work and full days of research. It was an incredibly productive year. Getting your dissertation finished before internship is the way to have a great internship year.

 

[borne_before]

What are your goals?

Things to consider:

• you're probably already competitive for a tenured position in a least desirable place.
• A lot of people get tenure a smaller school, and then move up into other positions at more desirable universities, with tenure.
• is an extra year of research worth 150 grand? Like, don't rob tenured full professor Dazen from a whole year of income
• would that year be better spent doing a post doc somewhere else?
• internship is fun.

 

[bcliff]

I took a 6th year for reasons largely outside of my control but used that year to more fully develop as an independent scientist - It also made internship much less stressful, as I had already defended my dissertation before it began. I am happy with how things unfolded but agree with the point above that it essentially robbed me of one year of salary, which... I guess is less than ideal? The counterpoint is that there are tangible benefits I'm currently benefiting from as a result of taking that extra year, so it seems, at worst, like a wash.

 

[Dazen]

Reviving this thread from the graveyard as a very late thanks for all of the advice and update on my process in case its helpful to anyone in the future. I was nowhere near ready to submit an F31 for the December 2023 deadline and ended up being unable to prioritize my application during the school year because of a very heavy clinical load and other required classes/research/assorted responsibilities that pulled my time and focus in too many directions to produce a quality application. I made the F31 my 2nd half of summer priority (which it really deserved, because hot damn that's a lot of required pages of 0.5-inch margin, 11-point text) and can finally say that my app is officially submitted! I only ended up asking for ~15 months of funding and did not build a sixth year into the application. This decision came down to two primary reasons: 1) the value add of the 6th year vs the cost of pushing off employment wasn't worth it (my advisor strongly advised against the sixth year because of my productivity to date and ability to continue building my CV through internship and postdoc) and 2) I modified my goal to be submission rather than funding.

I recognize that applying later in grad school decreases my chances of receiving an already competitive fellowship. Would it be amazing to be awarded? Of course. Would it be worth submitting even if I was unfunded? After talking to a variety of professors at universities and medical settings, yes. I was surprised by how frequently I was told that being able to say you've submitted an F31 (or similarly large application) can be helpful in securing research - and especially soft money - positions because it shows a comparatively deep understanding of the grant process for your career level. Many people encouraged me to submit for its own sake and I would agree that I've learned a ton about putting together an application, working with the university grant office, describing the non-research aspects of a project (equipment, human subject protection, institutional resources), and managing a team of people contributing in different ways (sponsor/co-sponsor, collaborator, letter of support writer).

All that to say - it took longer than I expected, but I submitted, am still intending on applying for internship in my fifth year, and am happy with these outcomes. I'm also appreciating the side benefit of having a good portion of my dissertation proposal already written 🙂 Right now, I'm also very excited to focus on other research projects and take a nice break to spend some time in the woods and play some video games.