Talk some sense into me.

[MDTDO]

OK,

I took the MCAT. I did well enough to get in. (No confirmation yet, but if I say i did poorly, it would kind of skew the message I'm going to write.) Since about November, I have been back and forth, considering PA school, mainly because:

1. Its shorter
2. Its easier (Comparing Board exams, etc.. yes its much easier)
3. I want to get on with my life and start being able to live on my own.
4. I like medicine, and I need to have a career in it.

I'm not worried the slightest about failing in any aspect of medical school, but I don't know how crazy I am about 4 more years of pretty intense very expensive work followed by 3 more years of pretty intense underpaid work followed by the rest of my life of pretty intense quite well-paid work, which I then find out if I really like as much as i thought I would 10 years ago.

DO School has been the plan all along up until now, I don't know why I keep getting these thoughts.. Can someone remind me why I want to go to med school and set me straight? (1: but don't say the challenge. Anything can be a challenge. If I try to graduate from P.A. school while addicted to heroin, that would be quite the challenge, but not the best Idea)

Thanks

Mt

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[OSUdoc08]

OK,

I took the MCAT. I did well enough to get in. (No confirmation yet, but if I say i did poorly, it would kind of skew the message I'm going to write.) Since about November, I have been back and forth, considering PA school, mainly because:

1. Its shorter
2. Its easier (Comparing Board exams, etc.. yes its much easier)
3. I want to get on with my life and start being able to live on my own.
4. I like medicine, and I need to have a career in it.

I'm not worried the slightest about failing in any aspect of medical school, but I don't know how crazy I am about 4 more years of pretty intense very expensive work followed by 3 more years of pretty intense underpaid work followed by the rest of my life of pretty intense quite well-paid work, which I then find out if I really like as much as i thought I would 10 years ago.

DO School has been the plan all along up until now, I don't know why I keep getting these thoughts.. Can someone remind me why I want to go to med school and set me straight? (1: but don't say the challenge. Anything can be a challenge. If I try to graduate from P.A. school while addicted to heroin, that would be quite the challenge, but not the best Idea)

Thanks

Mt

There average salary for PA's is $72,757.

This is enough money to live decently, but do you really want to have a doctor hold your hand everytime you have to do something beyond your scope of practice?

It's only 2 more years of school (the last 2 years are just clinicals anyway---what's the big deal?)

 

[gerido]

OK,

I took the MCAT. I did well enough to get in. (No confirmation yet, but if I say i did poorly, it would kind of skew the message I'm going to write.) Since about November, I have been back and forth, considering PA school, mainly because:

1. Its shorter
2. Its easier (Comparing Board exams, etc.. yes its much easier)
3. I want to get on with my life and start being able to live on my own.
4. I like medicine, and I need to have a career in it.

I'm not worried the slightest about failing in any aspect of medical school, but I don't know how crazy I am about 4 more years of pretty intense very expensive work followed by 3 more years of pretty intense underpaid work followed by the rest of my life of pretty intense quite well-paid work, which I then find out if I really like as much as i thought I would 10 years ago.

DO School has been the plan all along up until now, I don't know why I keep getting these thoughts.. Can someone remind me why I want to go to med school and set me straight? (1: but don't say the challenge. Anything can be a challenge. If I try to graduate from P.A. school while addicted to heroin, that would be quite the challenge, but not the best Idea)

Thanks

Mt

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I think going with PA is a great idea. if I was weighing cost/benefit/investment/personal life... it seems more favorable. compare ~80G a year to 200G a year might seem not as much.. but 80G a year is a lot of money (to me at least). Plus, you don't have to deal with all the complication of being a doctor as much (insurance, law suits). I work with a bunch of PA students and they all seem very happy.

 

[pmpndaflip]

I don't know why I keep getting these thoughts.. Can someone remind me why I want to go to med school and set me straight?

Whoa if you need to be reminded why medical school, there might be a bigger issue at hand. Think long and hard...From what you posted....Pretty fair to say you're sick of studying and PA might be a better alternative. I myself considered PA as well...I know what you mean by wanting to just move on in life and start making money. PA is easier, it is faster and less stress. The pay is decent, big reason why I decided to go to med school is the opportunities later and the interest in specializing. But if I whole heartedly just wanted to do FP I would have considered PA a lot more. Med school is a lot of sacrifice but as everything in life more sacrifice = more rewards...Wish you the best.

 

[EL CAPeeeTAN]

If you go the PA route you will always see the doctors in your career and envy / wonder "What if.." I would suggest that if you decide to not pursue the DO then you would be better off pursuing another career outside of healthcare. My experience has been that once someone is smitten with wanting to become a doctor and decide not to pursue it but pursue the next closest thing ie PA, then they always wish / wonder if they made the right choice. When I say smitten, I mean really wanting to be a doctor not just a fleeting phase or simple "gee, maybe I should be a doctor?" You also have to remember that although medical school / residency can seem like such a long road and it is but it will also go by quickly and when you look back you will realize the great career you have was worth the hardwork. Good Luck!

 

[docbill]

OK,

I took the MCAT. I did well enough to get in. (No confirmation yet, but if I say i did poorly, it would kind of skew the message I'm going to write.) Since about November, I have been back and forth, considering PA school, mainly because:

1. Its shorter
2. Its easier (Comparing Board exams, etc.. yes its much easier)
3. I want to get on with my life and start being able to live on my own.
4. I like medicine, and I need to have a career in it.

I'm not worried the slightest about failing in any aspect of medical school, but I don't know how crazy I am about 4 more years of pretty intense very expensive work followed by 3 more years of pretty intense underpaid work followed by the rest of my life of pretty intense quite well-paid work, which I then find out if I really like as much as i thought I would 10 years ago.

DO School has been the plan all along up until now, I don't know why I keep getting these thoughts.. Can someone remind me why I want to go to med school and set me straight? (1: but don't say the challenge. Anything can be a challenge. If I try to graduate from P.A. school while addicted to heroin, that would be quite the challenge, but not the best Idea)

Thanks

Mt

Do the one you want to do. Some prefer to have less responsibility adn more time to raise a family. Nothing wrong with that. PA are important part of health care system and will be in demand.

Money should not be a deciding factor.

 

[raptor5]

If you were to find a coveted Derm PA job you could be bringing in what some Family docs make. The derm Pa my wife saw last year was pulling in over 100g's.

 

[PACtoDOC]

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I think going with PA is a great idea. if I was weighing cost/benefit/investment/personal life... it seems more favorable. compare ~80G a year to 200G a year might seem not as much.. but 80G a year is a lot of money (to me at least). Plus, you don't have to deal with all the complication of being a doctor as much (insurance, law suits). I work with a bunch of PA students and they all seem very happy.

PA students on average are a lot happier than medical students because their journey starts with a nice bright light at the end of the tunnel. The problem is, once you get to that point and start making decent money, will you be happy with the fact that you are not a physician, will not be treated like a physician, will have to work harder and harder to make more and more money (unlike physicians who tend to work less and less for more money over the years because their higher salaries allows them to invest in the practice and slowly bring in new young partners all the while tapering down their patient load). Then once you are not young anymore and start looking gray and a bit wrinkled, will you be tired of the daily comments like "so when are you going to be a real doctor?", and "wow, you sure drive a really nice car for an assistant, my dental assistant drives an 86'Thunderbird". Unless your entire life revolves around your family and you value prestige and stature NONE, you will not be happy as a PA likely. I could give you a million reasons why being a PA is awkward at best, and downright unpleasant at times. Imagine being on an airplane and and having the flight attendant come over the loudspeaker to ask if there is a doctor onboard, and you asking if you can help. Imagine them not allowing you access to the emergency kit because you are not a physician, all the while the only thing you need out of it is the epinephrine to stop some poor chaps allergic reaction to the nuts he just ate. Imagine always having to proove yourself from the first patient visit because they are already skeptical because you are not a physician. I remember walking by the front desk on occassion hearing conversations whereas our receptionist was trying to convince a patient that it was okay to see the PA, only to hear the patient schedule to see the doctor 5 days later for something they could have seen me for right then.

And anyone who says that you work less and have less responsibility, or spend more time with patients is simply sniffing glue. PA's do the exact things that physicians do most of the time in clinic settings, including taking call, and often working 5 full days a week while the doctor may only work 3-4. That is some urban legend that PA's have better schedules and better social lives. The current state of the PA profession would have me dissuading anyone going into it unless they could get into a BS program with like 60 hours of undergrad credit. But to compare a 6-7 year PA curriculum with an 8 year medical school curriculum (including undergrad for both) is almost crazy. When you factor in the money a resident makes moonlighting, the real difference is only about 1 or maybe 2 years of school in some situations. And when you take into consideration that PA schools often go all summers as well, in some instances its almost the same abount of time.

 

[rpkall]

^ good post by PACtoDOC.

I spent a couple semesters in PA school, and ultimately decided to drop out and apply to med school because I wanted more depth to the curriculum I was learning and the chance to specialize in an area and really become an expert in the provision of care in that area one day.

PAs work very hard, for less money. They expose themselves to the same perverse vicissitudes of the american healthcare system on a daily basis--just like a physician, but make less money. Often, they are overworked by their supervisors and/or they feel the need to "never say no" because they are conscious of their role as representing an up-and-coming field, and don't want people to think of PAs as lazy or less-abled than NPs or docs.

Just because your scope of practice is supposed to be narrower doesn't mean you do less work and have a regular schedule and all the time in the world to be with each patient and have a family, too.

Plus, when a PA graduates school, the learning curve is VERY steep and often overwhelming. As a resident, the learning curve is also obviously steep, but I feel 4 years of school prepares you better for it than 2.

I had the same thoughts you're having, and I actually did go to PA school. I had taken the MCAT, done some graduate work, some volunteering, etc, and I was seduced by all the good reasons people go to PA school. It just wasn't for me. Now I know, and so does my wife, that I tried it and wasn't happy. That's important.

Maybe you need to go to make sure you want more, be certain that PA will satisfy you. Or else you might wonder, when you're a physician 10 years from now and perhaps your life is not as perfect as you had hoped, whether PA would have led you to more happiness.

 

[Sundarban1]

Whoa if you need to be reminded why medical school, there might be a bigger issue at hand..

Go to PA school, at this point if your heart is not into medicine don't waste your time. Noone can convince you as to what direction to take in your life but yourself. Assuming you've given both routes equal thought it's obvious by your post that medicine is not at the top of your list.

 

[oldManDO2009]

I am probably older than most of the people that post on SDN. I considered PA school but realized that I could never bill independently and would have to work for a physician the rest of my career. I considered Nurse Practitioner - where I could bill Medi-Care and many private insurance companies which translates into autonomy. I looked at the curriculum for most NP programs and found they were less than rigorous when it came to the sciences and clinicals - this concerned me since I want to live in the middle of nowhere and provide rural services. I felt the NP route might compromise my abilities to provide patient care. In the end I decide that I would go to med school and JUMPED at the offer - at my age it was probably a one time shot

So how do you decide - I have 2 young daughter and they will be around 8 when I finish this long journey - but it will be so worth it and I am excited about being there when they need me for the school plays, cookie sales and all the other super important dad duties... If it is about family - they will be there through PA school or med school, medicine is 24/7 and we end up adjusting our lives to meet our job demands - your family will still be there, if it is about money - once your are comfortable - the time you spend with your family is much more valuable - sooooooo you need to do what you want to do and not place artificial limitations on your desires. If you want to be a doctor then do it and enjoy the benefits if you want to be a PA then go for it but heed PACtoDOC's advice I have worked in healthcare for a least one career and his advice is accurate.

 

[Fusion]

There is a lot of good info and advice on this thread. PAs and NPs continue to take a more active role in medicine, and their roles are expanding. But when considering an alternative to MD/DO, I think that the most important thing to ask yourself is if you will be truly satisfied not having the ultimate responsiblity for a person's health/life. I know you don't want anyone to mention the "challenge" of being a physician, but challenge is an essential component to FULFILLMENT in any career. So you shouldn't ignore that. As far as the more practical aspects of being a PA, you should realize the although it takes less time to become a PA, the schooling is longer than most ppl realize because it is straight through for 2+ years (i.e., no summers off). In actuality, many programs turn out to be closer to three years. You start working and making money when you finish, but probably only somewhat more than what a resident would make, and as others have mentioned, there is still a lot to be learned in the first few years. Also, many if not all PA schools require a couple years of direct health care/patient care experience to even be able to apply. On the flipside, there are several advantages to becoming a PA, such as no malpractice insurance, a little more free time, and the opportunity to skip around among the different specialties if you so choose.

 

[Bill_Brasky]

Hmmmm.....most other people are being very supportive, so I will hereby switch to evilness-mode to balance things out...........(hulking up.....wow I'm a dork)


Anyways.....

You've made a mistake by asking other people in the first place. This is your decision, the rest of YOUR life. I'm not saying its not a good thing to get perspective from other people but this is too important to leave up to strangers on a internet forum. Sit down by yourself in a quiet place (or with a significant other if that person is important enough to have a say in the rest of your life) and figure it out. Either it is your dream to be a doctor and nothing else will do or you just enjoy caring for patients and the biology, and are perfectly happy being on a lower rung in the authoritative hierarchy and earning less money generally while having more time with your family. Both options are equally valid, in a broad sense, but that doesn't mean both are valid for you.

Take control of your future. In sixty years you will be worm food. Make the most of the time you have.

Ending unfair rant fit for the pages of Ayn Rand.

-Bill Brasky
"First Friend of Brasky: Brasky got his wife pregnant.. and she gave birth to a delicious 16 oz. steak..

Third Friend of Brasky: The afterbirth was sauteed muchrooms!"

 

[adamdowannabe]

Although I am young, (26) and the length of PA school, Vs med school wasn't the big factor, I added that to the decision making.

I got into PA school, I got into DO school...and I spent 6 years in undergrad...(if I had know about the 6 year bs/md programs back then...I would have gone!) I decided to matriculate to PA school instead of DO school, for a few reasons..

One reason, I am have tons of family and friends who are physicians, they all told me to NOT BECOME A DOCTOR. It wasn't that they didn't want me to go to medical school, and learn all the greatness that is medicine, but the career is turning to such a beaurocratic nightmare, practicing medicine as a physician in private practice is becoming a part time job, shadowed by the practicing of business as the owner of the practice.... as is proven by the expansion of the MD/MBA dual degree programs. Granted one can work for a institution such as Kaiser, and get a salary and a check every month, and the worries go out the door of reimbursement by the sneaky actions of an insurance company that denies payment.

These physician friends want me to love medicine, and practice with gusto, not be overhwelmed by everything associated.

It really often times can be seen as an ego game, if you want to be the head honcho, and you strive to be "the man", then you have to be a physician, but then realize that most physicians themselves don't become "the man" It's always in the best interest of the patient to check with your colleagues about difficult cases, even if your colleague might be a PA ( I have heard of many cases when attendings go straight for a staff PA for advice, because believe it or not, a PA can know as much or more then a doctor..... they just weren't tought it in a classroom, they learned by being involved (PA's are very smart people too... last I heard, the admissions to PA schools was getting more competitive then medical school!)

Also, whoever mentioned the idea of jumping specialties....SO TRUE, everyone knows there are a lot of ADD doctors, imagine spending 10 years after medical school (residency....practice) in a specialty, only to find you want to learn and do something else......... as a specialist physician, that means another 3-5 years as a resident, as a PA, all that is required, is to get another job......

Maybe, as a PA you work ER fastrack for a few years, then get moved onto a trauma team, into trauma surgery .....then the hectic lifestyle starts to be too much, get a normal day job, working ortho cases, then, when early mornings on your feet in surgery get boring/tired.... get a cush job with a derms practice, or any other more normal schedule. Once something is "typical" you can move on.

I wonder how long doing the same thing everyday remains exciting. I know surgeons like to cut... but specializing in the same procedure, must get routine after a while right?


I was given another example as to a downfall of medicine, At theprivate practice level, an MD/DO spends years building a practice, patients that have learned to love your skills, and even many who are willing to pay cash for your services when you decide to stop accepting certain insurance groups, once you are "at this stage" you are stuck! You can't move anywhere, you can't just go someplace and take your patients with you, and you can't morally just drop them off at the nearest physician finder guide book, telling them you decided you want to go away, you have to spend a good few years finding someone to take over your practice, someone that has the same personality as you, so the transition will be as seemless as possible, and then where do you find new patients, and a new practice waiting for you?



I met an PA who works in ortho, he makes 125,000.... often times his cases never meet the doctor until they are pre-op, then he moonlights for some plastics doctors, getting paid per diem for first assists, no office work, just scrubbing in, and helping out (500-1000 bucks per case) THATS a lot of money, although obviously atypical.... PA's are allowed to own practices (incorporate) 49%.... the MD/DO must have the majority, but as younger Doctors, and more PA's come to work for the practice, this PA who owns the practice can work less and less, and still make more and more money, just as older MD's do....


Just some other aspects to the career of PA that I thought where an important decision factor when deciding which direction to go.

It is true, there are respect issues, and doctors who think PA's don't know anything, there is always the "but what if" scenario, which is great, because you can retake your MCATS and then decide you want to be an MD, and chances are a medical school will look at your experience as a PA favorably

But, also, for a career that is only 30 years young, as more and more baby boomer doctors retire, and more and younger physicians with PA friends, and PA colleagues emerge, then the career will become more and more common, and the patient at the fron desk wont make a second appt to see the doctor, and when you tell people you are a PA, they won't look at you wondering how a "medical assistant" is driving a porsche and living a plush lifestyle, they will know what a PA is!

** This was not proofread for typos or grammar errors, or even if there are statements that make no sense, which might reflect on the fact that I never learned to READ..... So, I apologize**

 

[MDTDO]

You all have really helped me out, even the guy who was trying to be a dick. Just kidding, but a lot of what you all told me is stuff I kind of know, and by hearing both sides of it, I realize that its up to how important all the different aspects are. I get bored quickly, and the ability to change what you do, where you live, etc. as a PA is big. I know that they work hard, etc. and I didnt think that aspect of it would be any easier.

Medicine/physiology is my sole academic love, but not the only love in my life. It is a dream of mine to be a doctor, but a lot of it could be based on the wrong things, and as my ego becomes less and less of an issue, I don't see as clearly what importance being a physician holds for me. Life could be too short to consume it entirely with one aspect of my life - damn it, I'm still leaning towards PA.

And I know I would be able to get in to medical school. That's not even an issue, maybe I wish it were, this would be easier. Life's too short to worry about 'what-ifs'.

Brasky, all in all, do you prefer gin or liquid LSD?

 

[LSU-Tech]

The only PA I’ve ever known ended up going to med school later on life. Take that information any way you like. I do believe you will be envious though. However, physicians might be envious of your more flexible hours and low if any malpractice.

 

[Bill_Brasky]

Honestly I know nothing about the life of a P.A., but from the posts it sounds like they have it pretty good. And if you're a doctor you'll have it pretty good. So in a big way you can't lose.

I'm a glad I helped, and don't let yourself feel bad if you want to be a P.A. At age forty I might still be doing a fellowship, with a nasty divorce from too many nights on call, working on a heart attack. You will be pulling down comparable money with time to spend it, flying to the Hawaii to get in a round of golf on the weekend, and having the nurses listen to you more than they would ever think to for me.

[ a montage of "little Rascals" stills are displayed ]
[ dissolve to grown-up Buckwheat smiling at the camera ]
Buckwheat: Boy, id bin a nong time since dem days. Hi, I'm Buh-weet, amembuh me? And I have compiled for you and your nistening pleasure, dum ub my mavorite tongs. Id's all ite here in dis uhn pectacular opper: "Buh-weet Sings". Take a wisten:

[ SUPER: "Fee Tines A Mady" ]

[ singing ]

"Munce. Tice. Fee Tines A Mady."

- Bill Brasky
"Third Friend of Brasky: I remember one time Brasky took his family to Sea World--

First Friend of Brasky: I'm wearing a diaper!

Third Friend of Brasky: [after a slight pause] Anyway, they were watching Shamu the whale when Brasky got splashed!

Second Friend of Brasky: [speaks incoherently]

Third Friend of Brasky: Right. So Brasky yells, "I'm Bill Brasky and no one gets me wet!" So he climbs into the tank, grabs Shamu and throws the whale into the audience, splashes him and yells, "How do you like it?!" And then damn if Brasky didn't step in there and finish the show!"

 

[Funkdoctor]

You all have really helped me out, even the guy who was trying to be a dick. Just kidding, but a lot of what you all told me is stuff I kind of know, and by hearing both sides of it, I realize that its up to how important all the different aspects are. I get bored quickly, and the ability to change what you do, where you live, etc. as a PA is big. I know that they work hard, etc. and I didnt think that aspect of it would be any easier.

Medicine/physiology is my sole academic love, but not the only love in my life. It is a dream of mine to be a doctor, but a lot of it could be based on the wrong things, and as my ego becomes less and less of an issue, I don't see as clearly what importance being a physician holds for me. Life could be too short to consume it entirely with one aspect of my life - damn it, I'm still leaning towards PA.

And I know I would be able to get in to medical school. That's not even an issue, maybe I wish it were, this would be easier. Life's too short to worry about 'what-ifs'.

Brasky, all in all, do you prefer gin or liquid LSD?

Here is my 2 cents, DO YOU! This is an important decision in your life and you know you better than anyone. Go with your heart. What I mean by that is if you are the manic type like a lot of people, and one day go from saying your goal is DO school, to one day PA school then you might want to think about which one of the 2 you REALLY want to do more.

If you have always wanted to be a doctor, and just recently decided you might be happier as a PA then go DO. If you have been wrestling back and forth with the idea for a while, and you have been thinking about being a PA for a long time then do that also.

Money should never be an issue with what you want to do with your career both pay great, and I personally know an NP that makes over 100K a year (with bonus included). She does not bust her ass either, she works normal hours 9-4 or 5ish and on friday's 9-1 or 2ish. She does work for a specialist though, you will not make that kind of money working for FP I can promise you that.

Anyway be strong and make your decision. The best of luck to you on your journey

 

[MDTDO]

The fact that I can't sleep well at night leads me to believe I've given both a lot of serious consideration. It's just a matter of the fact that I'll be 26 when I start either one. As a PA, I'd finally have my job and career by 30 (not that the numbers mean too much but its sooner than 34-36.)

I don't see myself second-guessing much. If I chose to become a PA its for the right reasons, not because I couldnt get in, etc. but because I want time for other things.. But I'm also aware that you can have a life in med school and I'm also aware that being a physician is what I want to do more. That said, I have to decide whether or not it is worth it at all costs to be a physician, which I have to decide.

I think 90% of this is panic since 1. All my freinds from college are into their careers, many successfully. 2. I dont know what my MCAT score is. 3. I haven't gotten in or even applied anywhere yet. 4. my love has to be cardiology which takes just that much longer. I think once I am into school, I have all that time to finally freakin relax and get ready for the voyage ahead. But now, its just this sense of stagnation that's causing me to panic.

thanks again all
matt

 

[stomper627]

Most people start school now at 26/27. My class avg was 26....age should not be a factor....

 

[Funkdoctor]

Most people start school now at 26/27. My class avg was 26....age should not be a factor....

Yeah that doesn't make me feel so bad. I am 23 and will apply next year, so by the time I get in I will be like 25. I thought I was going to be an old fart, but maybe not.

 

[Fusion]

The only PA I’ve ever known ended up going to med school later on life. Take that information any way you like. I do believe you will be envious though. However, physicians might be envious of your more flexible hours and low if any malpractice.

I don't think MDTDO will necessarily be envious, but I do agree that a lot of PAs probably wish they had spent the extra time and effort to become a physician. I have personally worked with and known several PAs. You can certainly tell the ones who are genuinely happy from the ones who are a little bitter. Of course, the grass is always greener on the other side, but I don't think that many doctors today look back and wish they had gone to PA school instead.