TCNJ-UMDNJ full tuition vs. HPME

[Bethany555]

I posted this topic under hSDN, but since I am officially finished with high school and this is more pertinent to med school, I guess I'll post it here. If a mod wants to delete the post in hSDN, that'd be cool. I used to have an account, but I forgot my password and the e-mail I used to create it. Oh well...

I am an incoming freshman next year from Cape May, NJ. I recently chose between two combined medical programs, TCNJ/Rutgers-UMDNJ [full tuition for 7 years] and Northwestern's HPME [no financial aid or scholarships].

I come from a middle-class family (150k-200k/yr). Though I don't know what specialty I want to be, I want to keep my options open to include ROAD specialties. I made my decision, and don't regret it but I wonder what others would have chosen.

So what would you have chosen and why? Feel free to answer whether you are a high school student, undergrad, med student, etc. I'll tell you what I chose in a few days

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[IPremed2010]

I posted this topic under hSDN, but since I am officially finished with high school and this is more pertinent to med school, I guess I'll post it here. If a mod wants to delete the post in hSDN, that'd be cool. I used to have an account, but I forgot my password and the e-mail I used to create it. Oh well...

I am an incoming freshman next year from Cape May, NJ. I recently chose between two combined medical programs, TCNJ/Rutgers-UMDNJ [full tuition for 7 years] and Northwestern's HPME [no financial aid or scholarships].

I come from a middle-class family (150k-200k/yr). Though I don't know what specialty I want to be, I want to keep my options open to include ROAD specialties. I made my decision, and don't regret it but I wonder what others would have chosen.

So what would you have chosen and why? Feel free to answer whether you are a high school student, undergrad, med student, etc. I'll tell you what I chose in a few days

I would vote for TCNJ/Rutgers-UMSNJ full tution.

Since when the definition of middle class is 150k-200k/yr?

 

[Bethany555]

I would vote for TCNJ/Rutgers-UMSNJ full tution.

Since when the definition of middle class is 150k-200k/yr?

Family income* and NJ has a very high cost of living. =/

 

[bobow98]

Family income* and NJ has a very high cost of living. =/

The [wo]man speaks the truth.

 

[Barney Stinson]

UMDNJ, unequivocally. NJMS/RWJMS aren't "bad" schools by any stretch of the imagination, and Northwestern would give you only the tiniest of advantages in applying to a residency program if all other factors are equal. The full tuition scholarship, including medical school, is flat-out incredible and will amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars saved.

Take the full ride, work your ass off, and get into whatever residency you want. Beats working just as hard to fight for the same residencies without the scholarship, in my book.

 

[Shinespike]

Uh, just wondering, are you sure you'll getting a full ride for 7 years for TCNJ because I'm in the program and I'm 99% sure no one gets a full ride for the undergrad portion based on merit let alone the med school. Maybe you're talking about Rutgers undergrad. Nevertheless it'll still be a lot cheaper than HPME and that's why I'd choose it even if I had applied and gotten into HPME.

 

[drizzt3117]

are you 100% sure you want to go into medicine? An undergrad degree from NU will be much more valuable than one from your state school if you decide to go into a different field, like business... I'd argue that you'd have a significantly easier time matching into top programs in competitive residencies out of NU, simply because they have a track record of putting people into competitive residencies, especially the top midwestern programs.

 

[FutureDoc4]

I would of chose the 7 year program. I know as a premedical student, you cannot really assess match lists. But, for instance, I would compare the number of students matching into the competitive specialities (ROAD+Rad Onc, Plastics) and see the number of students matching. RWJMS matches up to Northwestern pretty well.

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.ed...esidency/Residency_Match/allmatchresults.html

http://rwjms.umdnj.edu/education/admissions/our_students/match_list_2010.html

The biggest determinate of your success in matching competitively will be your success in medical school>school name.

 

[drizzt3117]

The quality of the programs they're matching into is not really all that comparable. You also see a higher % of people matching into primary care but that could be self-selection. The bigger issue is simply that the 7 year program locks you into a premedical track as it's possible you won't have enough credits to get a useful degree if you decide not to do medicine, never mind that you won't be able to take classes out of interest in many cases.

I would of chose the 7 year program. I know as a premedical student, you cannot really assess match lists. But, for instance, I would compare the number of students matching into the competitive specialities (ROAD+Rad Onc, Plastics) and see the number of students matching. RWJMS matches up to Northwestern pretty well.

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.ed...esidency/Residency_Match/allmatchresults.html

http://rwjms.umdnj.edu/education/admissions/our_students/match_list_2010.html

The biggest determinate of your success in matching competitively will be your success in medical school>school name.

 

[justaregularmed]

The quality of the programs they're matching into is not really all that comparable. You also see a higher % of people matching into primary care but that could be self-selection. The bigger issue is simply that the 7 year program locks you into a premedical track as it's possible you won't have enough credits to get a useful degree if you decide not to do medicine, never mind that you won't be able to take classes out of interest in many cases.

Not to mention the 7 year kids are usually maladjusted.

 

[FutureDoc4]

Not sure how you can say they are not pretty comparable. I mean, Northwestern has more students (I think), so the match is larger. But, just to pick two specialties out one a ROAD (maybe not as much anymore), Radiation Oncology both competitive.

Anesthesia:

Anesthesia RWJ

Hosp of the Univ of PA-NJ
Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
NYP Hosp-Weill Cornell Med Ctr (2)
Mt Sinai Hosp-NY (2)
NYU School of Medicine-NJ
Thomas Jefferson Univ-PA
UMDNJ-R W Johnson-Piscataway-NJ
St Joseph's Regional Medical Center-NJ


Anesthesia Northwestern

University of Colorado School of Medicine, Denver, CO
New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY
Brigham & Womens Hospital, Boston, M
Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, L
New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY
San Antonio Military Medical Center
New York Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY
Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA, Chicago, I

Radiation Oncology RWJMS

Hosp of the Univ of PA-PA
UMDNJ-R W Johnson-Piscataway-NJ


Radiation Oncology Northwestern

Radiation Oncology Match 2010
Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA, Chicago, IL
Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA, Chicago, IL

I am not arguing in favor of a the 7 year program.... I think they are a good idea for some and not so much for others. But, in terms of your ability to match a competitive specialty later on. Going to Northwestern over UMDNJ for a competitive "edge" versus paying tuition seems a little ridiculous to me.

 

[drizzt3117]

Actually RWJ has more students, 152 to 147.

It actually looks like primary care is pretty similar except NU had many more people go into IM (who will probably specialize) as opposed to FM/Peds.

RWJ's list actually looks pretty good, but less than 10% of their class matched into what I would consider ~top 10 programs in competitive fields (including IM) where NU matched almost 20% of their class by my calculation. Was their school the most important contributing factor? Who knows. It's clear from charting outcomes that going to a NIH top 40 school (which NU is and RWJ isn't) gives you a statistically significant better chance to match into a competitive residency, though FWIW.

I agree that this shouldn't be the driving factor for making this decision. I think the bigger issue is that NU is a much better undergrad than Rutgers so if you decide not to go into medicine it will make a huge difference.

 

[ArcGurren]

*sigh* Please ignore the bull*&&t coming from those who haven't actually gone through the program.

I'm a graduate of the TCNJ program at NJMS. TCNJ is an excellent school, albeit a small one. There's technically five degrees offered for SMED (7yr) students but you can have your own degree designed if you wish to take a different major. The people in the program are some of the top of the class as well and everyone in mine graduated with high honors. They've gotten (myself included) research opportunities at excellent places.

Also the whole idea about being in trouble if you're "locked" into the program is COMPLETE nonsense. I know of three people who've dropped out of the program - one personally - and two of them applied for very good medical schools and got in (one went to WashU St. Louis apparently) while the third changed his major to business/law. Not only is it a pretty good value school in terms of tuition, you get a lot of quality education for your money's worth and it's personalized (class sizes are never >50-60).

So before you guys give opinions about things that you know nothing about, please let the ones who do know talk first.

 

[ArcGurren]

Not to mention the 7 year kids are usually maladjusted.

I sincerely hope that's a joke or said out of ignorance.

 

[ArcGurren]

Uh, just wondering, are you sure you'll getting a full ride for 7 years for TCNJ because I'm in the program and I'm 99% sure no one gets a full ride for the undergrad portion based on merit let alone the med school. Maybe you're talking about Rutgers undergrad. Nevertheless it'll still be a lot cheaper than HPME and that's why I'd choose it even if I had applied and gotten into HPME.

Yeah TCNJ doesn't give you a full ride tuition anymore (though it does pay for about half of it if you're in the program if you apply for it) based on your merit scholarships. That being said it is still significantly cheaper than almost any other direct med program out there, from what I've seen.

We have our douchebag NJ state government to thank for that nonsense.

 

[drizzt3117]

*sigh* Please ignore the bull*&&t coming from those who haven't actually gone through the program.

I'm a graduate of the TCNJ program at NJMS. TCNJ is an excellent school, albeit a small one. There's technically five degrees offered for SMED (7yr) students but you can have your own degree designed if you wish to take a different major. The people in the program are some of the top of the class as well and everyone in mine graduated with high honors. They've gotten (myself included) research opportunities at excellent places.

Also the whole idea about being in trouble if you're "locked" into the program is COMPLETE nonsense. I know of three people who've dropped out of the program - one personally - and two of them applied for very good medical schools and got in (one went to WashU St. Louis apparently) while the third changed his major to business/law. Not only is it a pretty good value school in terms of tuition, you get a lot of quality education for your money's worth and it's personalized (class sizes are never >50-60).

So before you guys give opinions about things that you know nothing about, please let the ones who do know talk first.

What I meant about being locked into the program has nothing to do with this particular BS/MD program but any accelerated BS/MD program. If you're finishing undergrad in three years, you're either taking a very select subset of classes that include the prereqs.

Also, as I said before, the quality of education and opportunities that you'd get as an undergrad at TCNJ just isn't comparable to what you'd get at Northwestern. This isn't a slam on TCNJ, which is a pretty good school, but NU is one of the top undergrad institutions in the world. This isn't particularly all that important for the purposes of medical school admissions, but would be significantly more important for other fields, and getting exposure to top people in the field through undergrad is nice for personal development.

 

[schrizto]

Most people will say TCNJ/UMDNJ for the cost. Btw, the students that I know in the program only get the full tuition discount for their three years at TCNJ (scholarships are handled by different offices for the undergrad and med school portions). Getting the tuition at UMDNJ covered for free sounds unlikely.