Teach for America vs. Research

[josephsnider2017]

Hi! I am a senior (Asian male) at Columbia and am deciding on how to spend my gap year.

I was fortunate enough to receive an offer to join Teach For America (TFA). However, I also received an offer (full employee benefits as research scientist) from my PI to do a year of clinical research at the lab, where I published 2 first author papers since freshman year.

I am thankful for both opportunities- but having difficulty choosing one.

Doing research under my PI will likely yield 1-2 additional first author publications in a journal (probably not high impact but a reputable journal within the specialty).
However, I think TFA will probably make me stand out more. I think there are better researchers out there already and TFA will bring uniqueness, esp. for Asian.

Would appreciate your thoughts!

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[medDaisuki]

Wow your lab is super productive.... How can you get two first authors in a year??? If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to take a gap year?
I think you definitely have a great research background, if you need more volunteer hours maybe TFA would be a better choice.

 

[liquidcrawler]

I've been hearing poor things about TFA recently, mainly that it lures unexpecting college grads in with a "hero" narrative, suggesting you as the "privileged" teacher can overcome systemic education gaps all the while being woefully unprepared for the job. If inner-city education is something you are passionate about - go for it. If you are merely looking for something to round out your medical school application TFA is not right for you.

 

[aldol16]

Teach for America requires you to live on complete ****. The good news is that you might get placed somewhere in the middle of nowhere Colorado that has minimal cost of living. I'm guessing even your research scientist package easily allows you to make much more than Teach for America. Just make sure you have enough money to at least get by plus a little extra.

 

[josephsnider2017]

Wow your lab is super productive.... How can you get two first authors in a year??? If you don't mind me asking, why did you decide to take a gap year?
I think you definitely have a great research background, if you need more volunteer hours maybe TFA would be a better choice.

I decided to take a gap year to include my senior year GPA
I would most likely finish a project I started my senior year + maybe another one during the gap year = 2 studies

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

If you’re interested in a service based gap year, consider AmeriCorps. There are a lot of different programs all over the country. It’s only a year and isn’t exactly a lucrative position, but it’s a good and humbling experience (typically).

With that said, it depends on where you want to go to school. Do you want to try and end up at a Columbia type of medical school? Then do research. If you don’t care, then I’d say service.

 

[Planes2Doc]

ECs come and go, but research lasts forever. When it comes time for residency applications, the research will help more.

Also, Teach for America is a serious commitment. I know people that have been beaten down emotionally because of the difficulty of dealing with the most difficult students in poor settings. My wife is a teacher, and had the opportunity to do it, but declined. She did know other teachers that did TFA ultimately to get into better districts later. She also knows people that quit. Now I'm all for strategically checking boxes and going through ECs to maximize your application, but TFA is one exception. If someone half-asses their emergency department volunteer gig, then some beds will not be made quickly and the ED techs will have a little bit more work to do. But if someone half-asses their TFA experience (not saying you would), then it's real children with real futures that are at stake. Unless someone's heart is in it and this is genuinely something they want to do, then I would advise against it.

 

[aldol16]

This is not entirely true—TFA teachers are regular school/district employees with salary and benefits. They get no money from the organization. Since almost all are first-year teachers, they start at the bottom of the pay scale, but in many, if not most, TFA placement regions, a first-year teacher's salary with good health benefits is enough to live comfortably on. Most live considerably better than med students on loans except in the big cities.

You don't have to believe me. Just download the spreadsheet (Salary, Benefits & Aid | Teach For America). If those figures are enough for you to "live comfortably," then all the better for you.

There are also costs to the school district that should be considered: Why I Said No to Teach for America, and Why You Should Too | HuffPost

 

[Mr. Saigon]

You don't have to believe me. Just download the spreadsheet (Salary, Benefits & Aid | Teach For America). If those figures are enough for you to "live comfortably," then all the better for you.

There are also costs to the school district that should be considered: Why I Said No to Teach for America, and Why You Should Too | HuffPost

Are you an alum? Not being rude, just curious.

To start, ones TFA experience will vary drastically depending on the region, school, and year they serve. Second, it’s a service commitment working at a Title 1/low-income school. No one in the Corps comes in expecting to make six figures. Nonetheless, the pay is more than enough for a recent college grad who is likely live with roommates to go out to eat and splurge here and there. Cant speak for those that come in with families. And no, you don’t have to be placed in the middle of South Dakota. I completed my service in a large urban city in the SW, and most of our Corps lived in nice apts, went out, and some even bought new cars. Many coached a sport or led a club and picked up an extra 2-4K/year. Your salary also increases a good amount for every year you stay in the classroom. Many corps members stay past the two years.

To address the HuffPost article - step into a school and let me know if you can pick who the TFAers are. EVERYONE struggles their first year, regardless if you are TFA or not - that’s teaching. There’s only so much training that can be done to prepare someone to lead their classroom. You just have to do it. At the end of the day, I would much rather have a TFAer teaching my kid knowing they will grind it out and give it 110% for 2+ years than having the district fill the spot with a long-term substitute who is only showing up to pick up a paycheck. Dont know much about the situation in Chicago and districts paying thousands to TFA to fill spots probably doesn’t even make a dent in their budget.

I’m a few years out of the Corps and obviously a strong supporter, but I’m also a big critic. I will call them out when I need to and many of us have.

 

[aldol16]

Are you an alum? Not being rude, just curious.

No, I am an educator who has a problem with their model of teaching. As a PhD, I taught undergraduate courses during both my tenure as a graduate student and in the brief time after receiving my PhD. Although we have to go through rigorous teaching development workshops before we can even TA a course, teaching a real course is a completely different experience and there were many times when many of us struggled with what to do or how to make often complex material accessible to every student and not just the "average" student. You can't teach teaching - not even in a summer institute. In my years of teaching, I gained valuable experience that can only be learned by actually being in the classroom and learning how to teach real material to real students. I am a much better teacher now than I was as a graduate student. Although all novice teachers will have to go through that phase of professional development, turning that into a perpetuating cycle like TFA does is more harmful than helpful, in my opinion.

Although I am in medical school now, I fully intend to resume my career as an educator in the future. Teaching is a profession, a calling, and a service, as you say - not just something to put on one's resume. Unfortunately, I do not believe that TFA's model is conducive to that when it's by definition a temporary arrangement and not professional development. I would be much happier if they marketed it as a program for future teachers, not just anybody who wants to see the world.

 

[PurpleCow2016]

No, I am an educator who has a problem with their model of teaching. As a PhD, I taught undergraduate courses during both my tenure as a graduate student and in the brief time after receiving my PhD. Although we have to go through rigorous teaching development workshops before we can even TA a course, teaching a real course is a completely different experience and there were many times when many of us struggled with what to do or how to make often complex material accessible to every student and not just the "average" student. You can't teach teaching - not even in a summer institute. In my years of teaching, I gained valuable experience that can only be learned by actually being in the classroom and learning how to teach real material to real students. I am a much better teacher now than I was as a graduate student. Although all novice teachers will have to go through that phase of professional development, turning that into a perpetuating cycle like TFA does is more harmful than helpful, in my opinion.

Although I am in medical school now, I fully intend to resume my career as an educator in the future. Teaching is a profession, a calling, and a service, as you say - not just something to put on one's resume. Unfortunately, I do not believe that TFA's model is conducive to that when it's by definition a temporary arrangement and not professional development. I would be much happier if they marketed it as a program for future teachers, not just anybody who wants to see the world.

I completely agree. Many people who have actually studied education in school with the true intention of teaching as a career, are opposed to TFA. I have some friends in the corps right now, and they say that there is nobody in their cohort who actually studied education in school.

People should really reflect on how their time in TFA is helpful for the community they're supposedly serving, and not only as a resume boosting endeavor.

In my personal opinion, most premeds looking for a gap year job should not consider TFA. I'm kind of disappointed that it's looked upon so highly as a service EC, and hopefully I'll be able to express my point of view (I could write pages about TFA haha so I won't get into it now) on this issue as a student member of adcom in the future.

 

[PurpleCow2016]

The problem with using traditional teachers to argue against TFA is that studying education doesn't train you to be a good teacher. The only way to really learn how to teach is to just do it with close supervision and frequent feedback. There are lots of people in TFA who have a formal education background, but by the end of one semester everyone's in the same boat.

I agree that there is no place for TFA as a resume booster, but of course it still happens. This was a serious issue around 2009-2013 or so when finance/consulting was no longer an option for the traditional 50-60% of Harvard, Yale, etc. grads due to the crash, so people applied to TFA to try to ride it out. It's my understanding that TFA has become less competitive since then.

I think your disappointment about it being "looked upon highly as a service EC" is misguided. TFA is not an extracurricular activity in any sense except for the recruiters who work on college campuses. It's a headhunting organization that puts graduates—i.e. adults—into a full-time-plus job that requires a lot of skills that are frankly very similar to those med schools look for. Whether out of pure altruism or not, they are serving the underserved in a very direct way. And as long as they work hard and don't phone it in, I don't think it would be appropriate for "a student member of adcom in the future" to discount that in toto because she is opposed to TFA as an organization (which I do believe is fair; I am as well). I think one has to separate the work experience and personal growth of a TFA teacher from the operations and principles of the organization.

To clarify, most education programs in undergrad will have student teaching placements/curriculum development/practicums as part of the curriculum. It's not just book learning. At my school, my program required 2 years of student teaching. Not sure if that is the case everywhere, but it is definitely more than one summer of "boot camp" you get in TFA.

I agree wholeheartedly that TFA gives you many skills that are similar to those needed in med school and in medicine. But I think my point is really that people need to think about not how TFA will benefit them, but how/if being a teacher through TFA actually benefits the students you are serving. If I were an interviewer, I'd probe deeply and ask these kinds of questions if an applicant did TFA. I think it's crucial to know what you're getting into, and how it affects not only day to day learning, but the educational system that serves these kids in the long run.

I've had many interviews where TFA has come up, not because I did it, but because of my background in education. People are curious about it. I just want applicants who are considering TFA to think about it on a personal and societal level, and do what you think is best!

 

[PurpleCow2016]

Totally agree that TFA training is next to nothing. I would never defend it or argue that TFA teachers are better trained or better prepared. Just saying that in my experience working with and supervising student teachers and first-year teachers both from TFA and traditional backgrounds, none of them know what they're doing. Which is totally fine because that's just how teaching is, and those who stay 2, 3, 4+ years really do start to get the hang of it.

I also agree that there is some moral reckoning to be done regarding anyone's motivation to do TFA, especially if they have an exit plan going in. But TFA is unique in that even if you are going into it for selfish reasons, if you do a good job, you've still served the underserved in a way that most never will, and I think something can be said for that. I think it would be fair for you as a future interviewer to weigh the personal growth and life experience of such an applicant against a demonstrated willingness to admit to being un-altruistic, which is a big taboo in med school admissions.

To the OP, if he's still around, this doesn't change my strong recommendation not to do TFA in your situation.

I guess it completely depends from training program to training program, but I'm glad to hear that in your case, it doesn't really matter where you get your training! Unfortunately, many in TFA do not stay past 2 years, making it difficult to become better at teaching.

I completely agree about how TFA puts people closer to the underserved than most other gap year activities. But the question still remains- why TFA in particular? And not americorps, or city year, etc? I also agree that if someone truly has a good reason and good thought out explanation for doing TFA, which some of my friends do, I'll support them because of that! I just want people to reflect deeply about what they're actually doing and what they are supporting, which is not the case for many people going into TFA with no intention of staying in the field of education.

We can stop derailing this thread now haha. You make good points!
To OP, from what you've posted, I also agree, don't do it!

 

[Planes2Doc]

I was really surprised when I found out that TFA didn't consist of mostly teachers/education majors, but high-achieving college graduates trying to bolster their resumes/graduate school applications that have no desire to continue teaching. Despite the counter-arguments about bringing these high-achieving college graduates with "fresh ideas" into the classroom, it doesn't leave a good impression of the program. This is the one thing that really should be left to educators, since education is ultimately the one thing that can give these kids the opportunity to escape these conditions. It shouldn't be used as an opportunity to make someone applying to law school competitive from a top 30 school to the coveted top 14 schools at the expense of real children.

 

[Welshman]

You’re application is going to stand out plenty with multiple first authorships in your first year post grad. Do something easier for ECs

 

[wb100]

I know OP posted this in November but I'm hoping to shed some light on TFA for future applicants.

TFA has their pros and cons, but it has been the most rewarding and difficult experience I've had in my (limited) adult life. If you're truly passionate about helping students, even in a limited two years of time, I recommend this EC for people taking gap years. If you want to boost your resume and think you'll be a hero to these students, chances are you will quit within a few weeks/months. No one will praise you for your work and the most students will not appreciate you (at least in the beginning). So far in my corps year about 20% of people have quit and most were gullible about how challenging this would be. I grew up in a low income community and a similar education system as my students so I had a good idea of the challenges beforehand.

Another reason why people quit is because they are used to being praised and can't handle the stress of struggling for the first time in their lives. Most of the TFA corps members come from T20 schools and have not struggled academically, and on top of it they are bias on their view of how students should be. It is a culture shock for most and they have a hard time understanding why their students have behavior issues and don't value education. My students are in the foster care system, they have parents who are drug addicts/in jail, their friends are getting shot and arrested, and the list goes on and on. Their priority is to survive, and sometimes that means they don't care about Punnett squares. My classroom is the only place they get to be kids and sometimes have their only healthy relationship with an adult. You can make a huge impact on your students if you build relationships and trust, but it doesn't mean that it won't be rough. At my school we have veteran teachers quit left and right, and most that stay can't find a job elsewhere. People can criticize TFA all they want (and I do too), but they are temporarily plugging in the holes in our education system. For example, we are missing 3/5 math teachers at our school, along with other teaching positions. The students are on a computer system to learn with a sub babysitting them. I would much rather have an eager freshly graduated college student than a computer to teach me math, and so do the kids. The truth is that most great teachers don't want to teach at these difficult low income schools. The only way to fill these gaps is by increasing teacher wages (not happening), fill them in with computers and subs (who have no knowledge on the subject), or put TFA teachers (who at least might be eager and passionate to teach).

I nearly didn't apply to TFA because of the horror stories, but I think I'm one of the few that is truly happy with my choice. I feel incredibly lucky to be a part of my students lives, and most of my success comes from being realistic about my expectations, building relationships, letting them make mistakes (including at times cussing me out or walking out of my room), and being there when they need me. I have learned immensely from my students and I (think) they've learned some things from me as well. This experience was the first time I was able to directly work with a community and feel like I am making some change.

I typed this out in between grading so please excuse any spelling/grammatical errors. If anyone else needs more info on TFA, please reach out.

 

[tashapalooza]

As a TFA alum, I would say do not accept that offer if you already know teaching is not a possibility for you. Most people are not good teachers their first or second year (AKA your whole commitment) and it's not fair to the kids. I believe that the experiences you have in TFA can benefit you as a future doctor, but I imagine you can also have similar experiences through programs like Americorps which only require 1 year.

 

[3toedsloth]

TFA is messed up.

Privileged undergrads with little to no teaching experience and a summer crash course in instruction are placed in underserved schools. You benefit at the expense of poor kids, undermine teachers unions, and leave after 2 years.

Unless you want to be a teacher and have a positive influence on not only the children you're serving and on the system as a whole, you shouldn't be a teacher.

 

[Mr. Saigon]

TFA is messed up.

Privileged undergrads with little to no teaching experience and a summer crash course in instruction are placed in underserved schools. You benefit at the expense of poor kids, undermine teachers unions, and leave after 2 years.

Unless you want to be a teacher and have a positive influence on not only the children you're serving and on the system as a whole, you shouldn't be a teacher.

Your understanding is obviously superficial. While there are many “privileged” undergrads, there are equal amounts of TFA members that share backgrounds with the students they teach.

 

[3toedsloth]

Your understanding is obviously superficial. While there are many “privileged” undergrads, there are equal amounts of TFA members that share backgrounds with the students they teach.

You're clearly missing the point. Rather than focus on my impression of whether they are privileged or not, the fact remains: they are undergrads with little to no teaching experience and a summer crash course in instruction are placed in underserved schools.
That's the point of TFA. They have an enormously high drop out rate. Every TFAer I've ever met has fit this description.

 

[wb100]

You're clearly missing the point. Rather than focus on my impression of whether they are privileged or not, the fact remains: they are undergrads with little to no teaching experience and a summer crash course in instruction are placed in underserved schools.
That's the point of TFA. They have an enormously high drop out rate. Every TFAer I've ever met has fit this description.

Is a sub and a computer program (which most students fail) a better alternative? Or maybe a burnt out teacher that hates their job (if we can even find one)? The district has a high drop out rate with teachers who've been teaching for years. Teachers are leaving our district for better schools and we are having a hard time filling in positions.

Like I said we are a temporary plug in the system and I do hope one that day that an organization like TFA won't be needed for our students. This won't happen unless our country makes teaching jobs more competitive to attract better teachers. Most educators leave the profession, others climb up the ladder to be an AP or principal (aka out of the classroom), and others stay just to take their check but hate their job and students. Most of the ones who are amazing instructors have left for affluent districts/schools. This is the harsh reality.

 

[3toedsloth]

Is a sub and a computer program (which most students fail) a better alternative? Or maybe a burnt out teacher that hates their job (if we can even find one)? The district has a high drop out rate with teachers who've been teaching for years. Teachers are leaving our district for better schools and we are having a hard time filling in positions.

Like I said we are a temporary plug in the system and I do hope one that day that an organization like TFA won't be needed for our students. This won't happen unless our country makes teaching jobs more competitive to attract better teachers. Most educators leave the profession, others climb up the ladder to be an AP or principal (aka out of the classroom), and others stay just to take their check but hate their job and students. Most of the ones who are amazing instructors have left for affluent districts/schools. This is the harsh reality.

Many times they leave because they are counseled out, so they can be replaced by lower-paid undergrad TFAers.

They leave because their schools have become revolving doors of disinterested, privileged undergrad TFAers who use it only as a stepping stone and don't actually have any intention of making a long term impact. Like you, these TFAers are often convinced that teachers are lazy and ineffective, and these kids show this arrogance constantly.

It saves the district money to employ TFA kids, until those few TFA kids who stay in education start up charters that suck the public schools funds dry.

They leave to go into admin because they hope they can stop organizations like TFA that further rip apart a broken system.