Teach for America

[Neelesh]

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Hey, this is my first post on sdn.

Anyways, I'm a sophomore pre-med at the University of Arizona and I was wondering on your thoughts on teach for america as a precursor to medical school.

Teach for America is a 2-year program teaching kids disadvantaged populations.

I know that I ultimately want to be a physician, but I'm not sure about what my path should be.

I'm just weighing out all the options about what I could do after I graduate:

a) go straight to med school
b) do a masters and then go to med school
c) take a year off doing medically-related work and go to med school
d) teach for america (2 years) then med school

Basically, I am wondering if anyone has done or has heard of experiences relating to Teach for America, and also what this program would have on my admissions to med school.

Thanks guys.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Hey, this is my first post on sdn.

Anyways, I'm a sophomore pre-med at the University of Arizona and I was wondering on your thoughts on teach for america as a precursor to medical school.

Teach for America is a 2-year program teaching kids disadvantaged populations.

I know that I ultimately want to be a physician, but I'm not sure about what my path should be.

I'm just weighing out all the options about what I could do after I graduate:

a) go straight to med school
b) do a masters and then go to med school
c) take a year off doing medically-related work and go to med school
d) teach for america (2 years) then med school

Basically, I am wondering if anyone has done or has heard of experiences relating to Teach for America, and also what this program would have on my admissions to med school.

Thanks guys.

I'm not a fan of TFA. What good is being a teacher for two years only to quit? By the time you gain experience and actually become a half decent teacher, you screw the teaching system and leave. I think its bad for the profession unless you use to it become a teacher for life or make some significant contribution, but that's just my opinion.

I would chose letter C if I were you.

 

[Neelesh]

Well, I agree that leaving teaching as a whole after two years kinda seems like abandonment.

But think of how those experiences can make you a better physician.

I mean, when you are a physician, a lot of your job consists of teaching people what is going on within their body, and giving them reason about why you have decided to do whatever you do.

When you are a teacher, you have to teach kids and tell them why what they are learning is important and how it will better them.

I believe that all doctors are teachers to some extent and that experience in the field, especially with disadvantaged populations where it probably will be more tough, will give you better communicating skills, patience, and other attributes that make a good doctor.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Well, I agree that leaving teaching as a whole after two years kinda seems like abandonment.

But think of how those experiences can make you a better physician.

I mean, when you are a physician, a lot of your job consists of teaching people what is going on within their body, and giving them reason about why you have decided to do whatever you do.

When you are a teacher, you have to teach kids and tell them why what they are learning is important and how it will better them.

I believe that all doctors are teachers to some extent and that experience in the field, especially with disadvantaged populations where it probably will be more tough, will give you better communicating skills, patience, and other attributes that make a good doctor.

I have no doubt that it would be a great experience for you and yes, doctors must be good teachers. I just think a lot of people doing the hit and run TFA thing is a slap in the face to all teachers. I think TFA is a shady program in that aspect, because they attract so many people who use teaching as "somthing to do for a year or two" That's just my opinion though. I'm sure it would be good for you personally though

 

[Neelesh]

Yeah, I agree, but TFA encourages for their participants to pursue whatever they are passionate about after their 2 years, regardless if it is teaching or not.

That's what some people do:

http://www.teachforamerica.org/alumni/index.htm

 

[aglaiaer]

.

 

[DrMichelle]

I'm considering doing TFA, depending on what happens with medical school stuff. Medschools in general (some more than others) encourage their students to pursue TFA, and most will give a deferment for 2 years in order for a student to do TFA. Check out their website - they have a list of medical schools that offer deferments. I think that it would be hard to apply for medical school while teaching full time.

 

[ADeadLois]

I'm not a fan of TFA. What good is being a teacher for two years only to quit? By the time you gain experience and actually become a half decent teacher, you screw the teaching system and leave. I think its bad for the profession unless you use to it become a teacher for life or make some significant contribution, but that's just my opinion.

I would chose letter C if I were you.

Because you're giving an inner-city school two years of teaching they wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[xd2005]

I'm doing a similar teaching program in Baltimore. While it is not easy to apply to med school while teaching, it is certainly possible. Don't get caught up in the fact that you're only donating a couple of years. I second the previous poster. It's two years that they otherwise would have missed out on. Focus on the contributions that you would be making, and not the fact you can only make them for 2 years. Otherwise, become a teacher for life 😀 .

As far as admissions go, it more than likely will have a positive impact, as you demonstrate both 'maturity' (in taking time off and spending it in the real world) and humanitarian service. On almost all my interviews it's been the main topic of discussion, and if you're passionate about your teaching (as I am), then you'll breeze through it and impress people at the same time 😎

 

[silverlining1]

The Stanford Daily has had a couple articles on TFA lately:

http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/11/28/teachForAmericaComesUnderFire
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/11/29/lettersToTheEditor
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/11/30/lettersToTheEditor
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/12/1/despiteCriticismTeachForAmericaReceivesPositiveReviews

I hope these opinions will be informative, even though they don't make reference to medical school.

 

[jules922]

As someone who did TFA (for three years) and is now interviewing, I would say it is seen as a plus - my TFA experiences have been the focus of every interview so far. However, I certainly didn't do it to pad my med school application. Resume-building is absolutely the worst reason to do TFA.
The majority of teachers in inner-city schools - whether they are TFA or not - leave after 3 years, so TFA teachers leaving after a few years aren't any different than most traditionally-trained teachers.
Anyone who has done TFA and then goes on to med school/law school/grad school/whatever will have a fairly deep understanding of the realities of poverty ... that is something that stays with you and shapes your career priorities.

 

[Eric Lindros]

Because you're giving an inner-city school two years of teaching they wouldn't have otherwise.

Nope, they would have had teaching regardless.....and that teacher would probably use that experience to become good at it to continue to help kids.....rather than just pad their resumes

 

[biggoron42]

Nope, they would have had teaching regardless.....and that teacher would probably use that experience to become good at it to continue to help kids.....rather than just pad their resumes

hmm...after reading such books as savage inequalities by kozol, i wonder how many dedicated professionals there actually are teaching in underprivileged areas. more than likely if a TFA worker wasnt there, these children would have a temporary substitute who is completely incompetent and doesn't really care. i agree i would rather have someone who will dedicate their life to the art of teaching, but in inner city schools thats probably too much to ask outside of a few yeoman individuals.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Nope, they would have had teaching regardless.....and that teacher would probably use that experience to become good at it to continue to help kids.....rather than just pad their resumes

It's not easy for poor, inner-city areas to get teachers, let alone good teachers. I think it's great that there is a program so smart, motivated people can teach for a few years in underserved areas that really need good teachers. Sadly, many teachers in these schools are often not very good and tend to get burned out with time rather than improving. It is probably a good idea to have new, motivated, idealistic people infused into these schools every few years.

Also, I know TFA is highly regarded at my med school and I assume at most others as well. I really don't think it is resume padding -- the time and personal commitments are just too great. At many med schools, you can even get a deferment to do TFA for two years. (At my school, Teach for America is one of the very rare instances in which a deferment will be granted).

 

[gary5]

I think you should do option (A). The more distractions you put before med school, the more likely that something will get in the way. Another option would be to become a teacher instead, since you're interested in that. Finally, if you want to impress admissions committees, your best bet is to spend time doing medically related activities, like clinical research. Adcoms prefer someone who demonstrates specific interest in the field of medicine versus a more generic interest in helping people.

 

[Eric Lindros]

hmm...after reading such books as savage inequalities by kozol, i wonder how many dedicated professionals there actually are teaching in underprivileged areas. more than likely if a TFA worker wasnt there, these children would have a temporary substitute who is completely incompetent and doesn't really care. i agree i would rather have someone who will dedicate their life to the art of teaching, but in inner city schools thats probably too much to ask outside of a few yeoman individuals.

TFA isn't the only teaching fellowship option out there. Every city has more. TFA tends to be the one that has the most students like pre meds, who have no intentions of staying and making a career out of teaching. Im just not a fan of that. Mnay other programs better serve to turn people into teachers for life.

 

[Karina 07]

TFA isn't the only teaching fellowship option out there. Every city has more. TFA tends to be the one that has the most students like pre meds, who have no intentions of staying and making a career out of teaching. Im just not a fan of that. Mnay other programs better serve to turn people into teachers for life.

Agreed. TFA is the glitzy, glamourous, "look, I'm helping people" call for attention kind of program. There are much better programs out there. Do some more research into it -- in interviews later on, people will undoubtedly ask you about it and you'll get to tell them how great this non-TFA program was, rather than having to defend yourself against the ever-increasing (witness this thread) skeptics. 🙄

 

[biggoron42]

TFA isn't the only teaching fellowship option out there. Every city has more. TFA tends to be the one that has the most students like pre meds, who have no intentions of staying and making a career out of teaching. Im just not a fan of that. Mnay other programs better serve to turn people into teachers for life.

hey i whole heartedly agree with you. if you read my post, you'll see that i'd much prefer these underserved schools be staffed with caring, dedicated young professionals who intend to stay there their entire lives. but we have precious few people of this type.

you create a false choice between a TFA worker and perhaps someone more dedicated to teaching as a profession. the choice is more likely between a TFA worker and a underpaid, untrained, uncertified "permanent substitute" who rotates between classrooms every couple of weeks.

id love the ideal world in which a program like TFA had no use. as it is, though, i think the program helps attract people to teaching who normally wouldnt consider it, and gives underprivileged children 2 years of teaching they wouldnt otherwise have had...and i think like a quarter of teachers in the program do end up staying...

 

[Richspiders07]

TFA isn't the only teaching fellowship option out there. Every city has more. TFA tends to be the one that has the most students like pre meds, who have no intentions of staying and making a career out of teaching. Im just not a fan of that. Mnay other programs better serve to turn people into teachers for life.

It isn't the only teaching fellowship.. but it is one of the more established programs. Few other programs allow you to preference where you go, what you teach, and provide intense summer training to prepare you for the classroom. Also, the Teach for America network is an outstanding support group. Most first year corps members are placed in schools that have a second year corps member. Therefore, there is usually another corps member or two coming in when you leave.

You say most people dont go in intending to make a career of teaching.. and that is true. However, just because you dont have that intention going in, doesn't mean you leave without that intention either. Part of the purpose of teach for america is to expose promising young leaders to educational disparities and their relationship to other issues (political voice, healthcare, etc). Having this experience... and bringing the lessons you've learned and what you've witnessed into whatever profession you choose is invaluable.

My personal opinion that its pretty ridiculous to bash on a great nonprofit org that's been around for over 15yrs and influenced thousands of children's lives.. Besides, the program's mission isn't to create an army of young teachers.. its to eliminate education disparities. Every child that learns under the guidance of a corps member is a success story...

And as a heads up to whoever it was thinking about applying... it almost as difficult to be accepted into TFA as medical school.... something like 12-15% acceptance rate!

 

[Neelesh]

Do you think if you did TFA the interviewers would wonder/ask you why you aren't becoming a teacher?

 

[dopaminesurge]

Hey, this is my first post on sdn.

Anyways, I'm a sophomore pre-med at the University of Arizona and I was wondering on your thoughts on teach for america as a precursor to medical school.

Teach for America is a 2-year program teaching kids disadvantaged populations.

I know that I ultimately want to be a physician, but I'm not sure about what my path should be.

I'm just weighing out all the options about what I could do after I graduate:

a) go straight to med school
b) do a masters and then go to med school
c) take a year off doing medically-related work and go to med school
d) teach for america (2 years) then med school

Basically, I am wondering if anyone has done or has heard of experiences relating to Teach for America, and also what this program would have on my admissions to med school.

Thanks guys.

Peace Corps!

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

I think you should do option (A). The more distractions you put before med school, the more likely that something will get in the way. Another option would be to become a teacher instead, since you're interested in that. Finally, if you want to impress admissions committees, your best bet is to spend time doing medically related activities, like clinical research. Adcoms prefer someone who demonstrates specific interest in the field of medicine versus a more generic interest in helping people.

Gary, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from (i.e. are you just an applicant, on an Adcom, etc.), but I am an Adcom member and can tell you that TFA is extremely impressive on a CV. Med schools are not looking for automatons who only live and breathe medicine but are looking for people who have a genuine interest in helping others.

 

[Richspiders07]

Gary, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from (i.e. are you just an applicant, on an Adcom, etc.), but I am an Adcom member and can tell you that TFA is extremely impressive on a CV. Med schools are not looking for automatons who only live and breathe medicine but are looking for people who have a genuine interest in helping others.

I'm with him.. do something different that could help you stand out

 

[Neelesh]

Gary, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from (i.e. are you just an applicant, on an Adcom, etc.), but I am an Adcom member and can tell you that TFA is extremely impressive on a CV. Med schools are not looking for automatons who only live and breathe medicine but are looking for people who have a genuine interest in helping others.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[premeder]

for educators bashing TFA like in those newspaper articles i would challenge them to create something better. those people criticizing an organization that is making a difference probably have their own motives. its obvious in those articles that the stanford educators bashing TFA have their own agenda to promote their own curriculum at stanford. isnt there enough education disparities in this country for more than one organization to be helping? you dont need to put one org down to boost your own agenda.

you can teach through TFA or another progam and make a difference in the lives of students

it's nonsense when politics get in the way of making a difference. i lose respect for people and institutions who create turf wars just to one-up each other when there is so much need in this country.

i personally dont think you need to get an education master's in order to teach. learning theory in the classroom for 2 years does not equal practical applications and the real teaching process. look at the educational background of teachers at elite private schools like andover. the majority of the teachers do not have an education degree and most have the same background as the TFA teachers. university professors do not have education degrees either.

 

[jace's mom]

I teach math right now for an inner-city school, although I'm not with TFA. I'm going to teach for two years and then hopefully be accepted to med school. As other posters have said, if I didn't teach, there wouldn't be anyone. I was hired one week before school - my principal was considering asking for a long-term substitute until my application landed on her desk. We have about five open math positions at this time that are being filled with subs. Plus, I want to give something back to the education system. My teachers made a HUGE difference in my life, and I want to return the favor. My kids are good, and I have some great stories to tell during interviews! I'll definitely remember these two years as an important, touching experience.

What I've noticed at my school is that very few people are in this for life. Almost all of the teachers I know are considering career changes at some point, and it's not necessarily because they're burned-out and hate teaching. Either they had other plans all along, or they're making plans to leave before they get worn out, which is wise. Very few people can teach in today's schools for thirty years and continue to excel every day; the job is too stressful for that. So if, instead, the students get teachers for 2-5-10 years who are excited and committed, who are then replaced with new teachers to start the cycle again...well, okay. The (extremely professional) people I've been blessed to work with make it happen beautifully.

As for applying to med school while teaching full-time, one of the science teachers at my school is doing so this year, and I'm currently studying for the MCAT/taking classes. It can be done, but you have to be very organized.

OP, if you're really interested in teaching, I would encourage you to consider doing so through some program for a couple of years before applying to med school. I think you'll really enjoy the experience. I know it's one I hope to continue...I would like to teach college/medical school at some point much later down the line. Best of luck to you!

 

[notdeadyet]

A few thoughts from an ex-teacher, now med school applicant.

1. For folks talking about the "inevitable" burn out of teachers, while it's a job with lots of folks who leave, there are still many that make a long and happy career out of it.

2. Disadvantaged areas have a hard time to attract/keep teachers, but speaking as one who's taught at one, please do not take the attitude that TFA supplies teachers to places that are rife with bad and unmotivated teachers. You find some of the worst at these schools, but also some of the best.

3. Avoid comments about TFA supplying teachers in areas that would otherwise have "unqualified" teachers teaching there. TFA has a great liitle boot camp for two year volunteers, but they are in no way qualified teachers because of it.

4. TFA rotates students whose qualifications consist of a BA and 2.5 GPA. The philosophy that without TFA, these schools would have suffered by substandard teachers is a bit of a misnomer. Many/most contract teachers and substitute teachers have much more training and experience than TFA volunteers.

5. Ask at your local university what folks in the education department think of such programs. Programs that have a commitment to attracting folks to the teaching career via two year volunteer placements combined with classroom training leading to a teaching credential are well respected. Programs, like TFA, that do not have a commitment to do this are sometimes viewed with dubious eyes by educational experts.

That said, Teach for America is respected by employers as a noble use of time; I don't see why it wouldn't be seen the same by medical schools.

 

[Eric Lindros]

And as a heads up to whoever it was thinking about applying... it almost as difficult to be accepted into TFA as medical school.... something like 12-15% acceptance rate!

Maybe that's why TFA has such a bad reputation as far as members go. Half of my friends do teaching fellowships and they all say TFA teachers are among the snobbiest, elitest, and cocky that they know. I've heard they have no problem bashing on education, flaunting that they are only doing it for a minimum period of time and going to go on to be doctors, lawyers, and whatever else.

Maybe I shouldn't be hating on the program as much as the people who make it up. Yes, I know i'm making generalizations but I have heard this from too many people to believe its not true.

 

[Eric Lindros]

A few thoughts from an ex-teacher, now med school applicant.

1. For folks talking about the "inevitable" burn out of teachers, while it's a job with lots of folks who leave, there are still many that make a long and happy career out of it.

2. Disadvantaged areas have a hard time to attract/keep teachers, but speaking as one who's taught at one, please do not take the attitude that TFA supplies teachers to places that are rife with bad and unmotivated teachers. You find some of the worst at these schools, but also some of the best.

3. Avoid comments about TFA supplying teachers in areas that would otherwise have "unqualified" teachers teaching there. TFA has a great liitle boot camp for two year volunteers, but they are in no way qualified teachers because of it.

4. TFA rotates students whose qualifications consist of a BA and 2.5 GPA. The philosophy that without TFA, these schools would have suffered by substandard teachers is a bit of a misnomer. Many/most contract teachers and substitute teachers have much more training and experience than TFA volunteers.

5. Ask at your local university what folks in the education department think of such programs. Programs that have a commitment to attracting folks to the teaching career via two year volunteer placements combined with classroom training leading to a teaching credential are well respected. Programs, like TFA, that do not have a commitment to do this are sometimes viewed with dubious eyes by educational experts.

That said, Teach for America is respected by employers as a noble use of time; I don't see why it wouldn't be seen the same by medical schools.

I couldn't agree more. Good teachers go to school to be teachers, for 4 years, and student-teach and do those types of things. Going through that TFA bootcamp DOES NOT make you a good teacher, especially for the little time most people put in. I don't care what kind of GPA these people have, that's not what teaching is all about. It requires a lot of experience to be a really effective teacher, not classroom smarts. This is my problem with those programs, TFA especially.

But no doubt it will make you as an individual look nobel.

 

[jace's mom]

1. For folks talking about the "inevitable" burn out of teachers, while it's a job with lots of folks who leave, there are still many that make a long and happy career out of it.

Yes there are, and I certainly didn't mean to make it sound as if the teachers with whom I work are miserable people who hate/are not good at their jobs. I am blessed to work with some wonderful, professional people who truly love their fields and enjoy sharing their knowledge with students. Some of them are in it for the long haul, while others know (and perhaps began the job knowing) that it wasn't a career-long decision for them, but they all bring enthusiasm and professionalism into the classroom every day.

 

[szhao]

lol i think the goal of TFA is not to train you as a teacher, but just transmit some of the knowledge you gained into the youth. It will be an interesting experience, but haha i wouldn't do it i can't teach, people say i am too mean to the students

 

[Karina 07]

A few thoughts from an ex-teacher, now med school applicant.

1. For folks talking about the "inevitable" burn out of teachers, while it's a job with lots of folks who leave, there are still many that make a long and happy career out of it.

2. Disadvantaged areas have a hard time to attract/keep teachers, but speaking as one who's taught at one, please do not take the attitude that TFA supplies teachers to places that are rife with bad and unmotivated teachers. You find some of the worst at these schools, but also some of the best.

3. Avoid comments about TFA supplying teachers in areas that would otherwise have "unqualified" teachers teaching there. TFA has a great liitle boot camp for two year volunteers, but they are in no way qualified teachers because of it.

4. TFA rotates students whose qualifications consist of a BA and 2.5 GPA. The philosophy that without TFA, these schools would have suffered by substandard teachers is a bit of a misnomer. Many/most contract teachers and substitute teachers have much more training and experience than TFA volunteers.

5. Ask at your local university what folks in the education department think of such programs. Programs that have a commitment to attracting folks to the teaching career via two year volunteer placements combined with classroom training leading to a teaching credential are well respected. Programs, like TFA, that do not have a commitment to do this are sometimes viewed with dubious eyes by educational experts.

That said, Teach for America is respected by employers as a noble use of time; I don't see why it wouldn't be seen the same by medical schools.

Well put.

TFA could try to cut down the self-proclaimed elitism by increasing the percentages it accepts. If all these schools are so badly in need of "qualified" teachers, and TFA thinks it can do that, and it thinks highly of its applicants, why does it take so few? If it's worth it, it can raise more money, expand the program. The educators I know (who don't have any motive, not affiliated with any other program) have a bad opinion of TFA, which is where I got my opinion of it.

Either way, for you *personally* re: apps, you can't go wrong with going with a better program, and depending on the interviewers/adcomms you get, you *could* go wrong with TFA.

 

[premeder]

if you put down TFA then you also need to criticize elite schools like andover that hire teachers of the same qualifications as TFA. i don't think anyone would question the transmission of knowledge from the teachers at andover. why should we be questioning the transmission of knowledge from the teachers at TFA?

and the vast majority of teachers with "education degrees" don't stay at one school more than a few years. there is constant movement from one school to another, or even out of the profession.

the low acceptance percentage is also not exclusive to TFA. why should unqualified people be accepted to teach at a school? maybe that person has a high gpa, but poor letters of recommendation or a poor interview. i think TFA must put emphasis on the application process which i think is important. you shouldnt accept just anyone to teach just like schools dont accept just anyone for their faculty

my background is that my father was a teacher at one of these elite schools but i have no experience with TFA. i'm just saying that TFAs philosophy is really no different than the best and most elite schools in this country. the only difference is that the teachers are going to the disadvantaged schools instead of the elite ones

 

[Richspiders07]

4. TFA rotates students whose qualifications consist of a BA and 2.5 GPA.

The average GPA of accepted students is about a 3.6 for the record....

 

[Richspiders07]

Well put.

TFA could try to cut down the self-proclaimed elitism by increasing the percentages it accepts. If all these schools are so badly in need of "qualified" teachers, and TFA thinks it can do that, and it thinks highly of its applicants, why does it take so few? If it's worth it, it can raise more money, expand the program.

Ya'll should read Wendy Knopp's book about her struggle to found TFA and keep it running. Teach for America would love to accept more people, but doesn't have the funds to do so... its scraps up money at the last minute every year to train their matriculants. They are ridiculously successful at stretching every dollar as far as possible

Also, for the record, TFA is a selective program, not competitive. There is not X amount of spots available each year.. the admissions committee accepts all students whom they feel will be successful in the classroom. They have to ensure their corps members are going to excel in order to keep their high reputation and continue to prove that the program does work...

If you are skeptical of the program's success... check out their website full of compelling statistics.

 

[Karina 07]

Someone has an axe to grind ("Brief Profile: -Teach For America Campus Campaign Manager ").

A lot of people have looked at those statistics and still think there are many better options out there. There are plenty of good analyses. Some of the profs I heard talk about it were education profs -- they should know what they're talking about.

Lord, none of us are arguing based on no evidence, that's a crappy thing to assume.

 

[Richspiders07]

Someone has an axe to grind ("Brief Profile: -Teach For America Campus Campaign Manager ")......
Lord, none of us are arguing based on no evidence, that's a crappy thing to assume.

Holy hell.. I guess its wrong for me to do my job in putting correct information out there. Don't you think it'd reflect poorly if I didn't say anything to defend this organization? I'm not assuming anything... just providing information that I've had to learn for situations such as these...

 

[notdeadyet]

if you put down TFA then you also need to criticize elite schools like andover that hire teachers of the same qualifications as TFA. i don't think anyone would question the transmission of knowledge from the teachers at andover. why should we be questioning the transmission of knowledge from the teachers at TFA?

I may be completely wrong about andover and whatnot, but I'd be pretty shocked to hear that they hired teachers with the same qualifications as TFA.

From what I know (and I have never taught at the elites), the elite academies usually attract very reputed teachers (advanced degrees, publications, etc.). TFA is designed for pre-entry level teachers (those with only BAs). I don't think there's any cross over to speak of.

and the vast majority of teachers with "education degrees" don't stay at one school more than a few years. there is constant movement from one school to another, or even out of the profession.

Again, while teaching has more turnover than most professions, teachers jumping from one school to another is much more rare than you might think. Teaching is usually a union job and the more years you have within a particular district, the better your salary, benefits, choice of classes, etc. The teaching profession is not as transient as you make it sound.

Also, most teachers do not hold education degrees. The usually have a BA in their field of study (or liberal arts often for primary teachers) and a teaching credential.

i'm just saying that TFAs philosophy is really no different than the best and most elite schools in this country. the only difference is that the teachers are going to the disadvantaged schools instead of the elite ones

As I mentioned before, I'd have a tough time seeing any crossover between the elite schools and TFA. Different missions, different qualifications, different applicants, etc.

 

[notdeadyet]

Ya'll should read Wendy Knopp's book about her struggle to found TFA and keep it running.

Just for the record, I support TFA's mission and the passion and altruism of many (most?) of its members. It's hard to be a teacher and not be inspired by the passion that young teachers bring to the profession.

My only point of discomfort with the program is the strategy of short-term placements of students without significant teacher training into the classroom. Many regions have similar programs, but they are developed specifically as a track to bring young teachers into the teaching profession. I prefer this methodology.

TFA is a highly regarded program that produces many successful people. But folks should keep in mind that they do have an element of the controversial among those in education. There have been many positive studies about the program's success, but there are also have been some negative ones too.

This is not a slight on the volunteers or the passion of the founders.

 

[gpumpkin67]

If you are skeptical of the program's success... check out their website full of compelling statistics.

As a TFA alum, this thread is very disturbing. Before you bash a program, you really need to do a little research (as Richspiders07 suggests). While TFA is certainly not perfect, the organization's impact has been and continues to be impressive. There are individual exceptions, but, on the whole, there is substantial evidence to support the conclusion that corps members are and have been successful in boosting academic achievement. A significant part of the TFA strategy is to create a movement to end educational disparities by establishing a network of professionals across disciplines capable of effectuating more systemic change.

On a more personal note, I can say that, at the time I entered the classroom, there was not a certified/contract teacher willing to teach my students. This was true for virtually every corps member in my region at the time. The alternative to TFA teachers was NOT a "better qualified" substitute teacher. Rather, the AP would simply take several teachers' preps each day to cover the vacancy, usually providing a stack of worksheets for students to complete.

As for critics...well, their agendas are often pretty transparent.

I would encourage the OP to consider TFA if s/he is truly committed to the organization's mission. Feel free to PM with any questions.

 

[notdeadyet]

As a TFA alum, this thread is very disturbing. Before you bash a program, you really need to do a little research (as Richspiders07 suggests).

I'm hoping that this is directed at someone other than myself. But just to err on the side of clarity, I really do respect TFA and its volunteers. But while I appreciate its vision, I just disagree with its strategy and feel there are better approaches that are employed by other nonprofs on a more regional level that are more sustainability-focused. I prefer strategies that specifically target getting permanent teachers into place rather than two year tours.

But if I was unclear and if any TFA volunteers felt victimized or picked upon, I apologize. Any program to get more teachers in the classroom are good things. I just feel that some are better than others.

As for critics...well, their agendas are often pretty transparent.

What is the agenda for TFA critics, by the way? Some folks in education are uncomfortable with TFA's approach, but I thought TFA was pretty much universally respected outside of this?

 

[premeder]

Hopkins is an elite school. not the one that my dad taught at, but it's a feeder for the ivies. look at the science department. 6 teachers have bachelor's only. 5 teachers in the math department are bachelor's only. this is how it is at all the private and elite schools.
http://www.hopkins.edu/academics/directory/default.asp

if bachelor's degrees are good enough for elite parents who pay 30K a year, bachelors degrees are good anywhere. why do you need a phd to teach algebra? usually people so far removed from a basic topic like algebra cant get down to the level of students. i know from experience that my own phd high school teachers were 10x worse than my bachelors only teachers.

you have to do more digging to find the degrees at andover so i stopped looking. hopkins has the degrees all nicely laid out by department.

there are no unions in private and elite schools. there is a lot of turnaround.

I may be completely wrong about andover and whatnot, but I'd be pretty shocked to hear that they hired teachers with the same qualifications as TFA.

From what I know (and I have never taught at the elites), the elite academies usually attract very reputed teachers (advanced degrees, publications, etc.). TFA is designed for pre-entry level teachers (those with only BAs). I don't think there's any cross over to speak of.


Again, while teaching has more turnover than most professions, teachers jumping from one school to another is much more rare than you might think. Teaching is usually a union job and the more years you have within a particular district, the better your salary, benefits, choice of classes, etc. The teaching profession is not as transient as you make it sound.

Also, most teachers do not hold education degrees. The usually have a BA in their field of study (or liberal arts often for primary teachers) and a teaching credential.


As I mentioned before, I'd have a tough time seeing any crossover between the elite schools and TFA. Different missions, different qualifications, different applicants, etc.

 

[notdeadyet]

there are no unions in private and elite schools. there is a lot of turnaround.

Ah, hadn't even thought about the fact that privates wouldn't have unions (never taught at one). That makes sense...

 

[premeder]

yeah, and again the parents who pay 30K a year don't care that there is turnover or about the degrees. i dont think we should be scrutenizing this issue for other schools. i would bet that the tfa teachers make a big difference just like the bachelor's teachers make a big difference in the elite schools.

teacher's "certification" is all theory and gives no real experience. what is student teaching? photo copying, grading papers. it's like you have to walk up the ladder with these silly things that a middle schooler could do. the only way to learn how to teach is to do it, and most natural born teachers have learned how to teach by tutoring through the years. you dont need formal programs to learn how to teach and usually those who do need formal programs are the ones who will never be able to teach because of lack of patience, lack of teaching skills, and all the rest. just think about all the bad teachers you have had in school. would teaching certification have made them better teachers? some probably already tried.

Ah, hadn't even thought about the fact that privates wouldn't have unions (never taught at one). That makes sense...

 

[notdeadyet]

teacher's "certification" is all theory and gives no real experience. what is student teaching? photo copying, grading papers.

Ooh, that's not actually true. Depending on your credential program, student teaching is often lots of actual classroom teaching experience under the guidence and mentorship of senior teachers. It's not usually an administrivia position.

the only way to learn how to teach is to do it, and most natural born teachers have learned how to teach by tutoring through the years. .

No. "Natural born teachers" are like "natural born baseball players". You can be very gifted, but coaching will always improve your game.

you dont need formal programs to learn how to teach and usually those who do need formal programs are the ones who will never be able to teach because of lack of patience, lack of teaching skills, and all the rest.

No, not true. Not sure where you're getting this from.

Ask any career teacher how they felt about the requirement to go through a credential program. You might meet one or two that didn't feel they needed it, but almost any teacher you talk to will tell you that it was necessary in their professional growth.

There are probably "natural born doctors" out there, but damn I'm glad they have to go to medical school anyway. Actually, the credential is more akin to residency.

 

[premeder]

no Neelesh, i have a lot of experience with this. my father taught for years at an elite school before retiring. my mother was credentialed and taught for about 10 years at a public school and then changed careers. credentialing is not like residency.

there are no natural born doctors. you need knowledge about the subject matter. you can have natural empathy but you cant doctor without knowledge

if you have knowledge about algebra and know how to teach, you can teach algebra.

if you have knowledge about medicine and know how to teach, you can teach medicine

what about professors in college and medical school? and TAs? they are effective teachers without teaching certification.

a very small number of teachers at private and elite schools have ever done student teaching or teacher certification. usually if you want to go through that bullsh*t you teach at a public school because the pay is a little better and you cant teach at public school without the certification.

but where do all of these parents with $$ run to? and where do all of these public school parents wish they could send their kids? private school with uncertified teachers

 

[Gut Shot]

But while I appreciate its vision, I just disagree with its strategy and feel there are better approaches that are employed by other nonprofs on a more regional level that are more sustainability-focused. I prefer strategies that specifically target getting permanent teachers into place rather than two year tours.

From a Hoover Institution's 2004 article on TFA:

The evaluation came to three conclusions:

1. On average, across different grades and different subjects, the impact of a TFA teacher was always positive.

2. In spite TFA teachers making up a small proportion of the Houston teaching force, the differences between the average TFA and non-TFA teacher were statistically significant in a number of key tests.

3. Although recognizing the inevitable variations among teachers whether TFA or non-TFA TFA teachers as a group showed less variation in quality than teachers entering from other routes.

In addition, a comparison of teacher profiles showed that TFA teachers were less likely to leave the classroom after one year. Beyond their two-year commitment, many TFA teachers also elected to remain in the classroom, a boon to the Houston district.

 

[notdeadyet]

From a Hoover Institution's 2004 article on TFA:

Yep. There are also studies that disagreed with these findings, produced by Stanford University's education department. You can google it.

Beyond their two-year commitment, many TFA teachers also elected to remain in the classroom, a boon to the Houston district.

This is why I prefer the programs that are designed to have the volunteer opportunities lead to full-time credentialed teachers. It is a boon to a school district. I'd rather that be the plan, rather than a happy side effect. Again, I support TFA and its goals. I just don't put them on a pedestal is all.

btw, for those that do not know, the Hoover Institution is a neocon think tank, not an apolitical educational organization.

 

[Gut Shot]

Yep. There are also studies that disagreed with these findings, produced by Stanford University's education department. You can google it.

No need, I am aware of the research by Stanford's most vocal TFA critic, Linda Darling-Hammond. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the upshot of the study you're referring to is that TFA corps members are, on a whole, out-performed by certified teachers. The TFAers did outperform other uncertified teachers, however, and the subset of TFAers who chose to become certified during their tenure matched certified teachers who were trained by traditional methodologies.

While I don't doubt Darling-Hammond's findings, I think the question she asked does not address the overarching problem at hand. Stanford and TFA alumnus Ralphe Beck addressed this in his 2005 letter to the Stanford Daily:

In her Op-Ed piece (“Vetting and understanding research,” April 20), Education Prof. Linda Darling-Hammond continues her long-standing criticism of emergency credential teaching programs, in particular Teach For America, or TFA. I am proud to be an alumnus of both Stanford and Teach For America, and while I do not disagree with Darling-Hammond’s assertion that well-trained, certified teachers are preferable to less-trained, uncertified ones, nor do I question her research, I think it is absurd the way she ignores the realities about placing teachers in underserved communities, and I have grown tired of hearing her criticize Teach For America from the comfort of Stanford’s halls.

My TFA experience was in many ways typical of the thousands of TFA corps members who dedicate at least two years to teaching in rural or inner-city communities. I taught high school English and drama in Warren County, N.C., which is the poorest county in that state. I replaced a (certified) teacher who was fired because he had no control over his students. Over 75 percent of my students qualified for free lunch and almost all read far below their grade level.

I had been a teacher in the summers between my years at Stanford, and I attended an intensive training program and worked as a student teacher before beginning my job in Warren County. My teaching experience was extremely challenging, but I’m proud of what I gave to the job. Of course, a graduate of Stanford’s School of Education might have been more effective in my position than I was. Unfortunately, none applied for the job. In fact, no one from any prestigious teacher training program applied for any job in Warren County that year, or any other year, except for those who did so through TFA. Where are the certified teachers Darling-Hammond so emphatically wants to replace TFA teachers in these communities?

New teachers are expensive to school districts, and Darling-Hammond is correct that teachers who leave after a few years, as I did, are a drain on school budgets that are already too shallow. But her data will not show that in my school, for example, I created a school newspaper where none existed before and that students still publish that paper 10 years later. Her figures do not reflect that I began an ongoing tradition of after-school plays where none had ever been produced before. Her research does not recognize that many of my students were inspired by an energetic young teacher to stay in school, to go to college and in many cases to become certified teachers themselves and serve their home county.

Stanford is blessed with a wonderful School of Education, and I fully support its efforts. But I wish that Darling-Hammond would cease trying to frame discussions of TFA and teacher certification programs as win/lose propositions. Doesn’t our nation’s public education system have enough need of improvement without lobbing criticism at others who are trying to fix it? How that criticism serves Stanford, students at the School of Education or the underserved communities Darling-Hammond studies is beyond me.

btw, for those that do not know, the Hoover Institution is a neocon think tank, not an apolitical educational organization.

The article I referenced earlier was only a summary of the results of the 2004 Mathematica study of TFA. Mathematica is, by the way, an independent policy analysis organization.

In a somewhat ironic twist, perhaps I should point out who the Hoover Institution is affiliated with.

 

[Richspiders07]

In a somewhat ironic twist, perhaps I should point out who the Hoover Institution is affiliated with.

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