EC advice for current junior (applying in 2027)

[astrelin]

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I'm a current junior planning to apply in 2027 (so one gap year). Currently have a lot going on, and I'd like advice regarding what I should be trying to target in my EC hours (and any advice in general).

Stats: 4.0 GPA, double STEM major, taking MCAT in September
Clinical:

• 100 hrs - hospital volunteering
• 0 shadowing, 0 clinical work experience - currently looking for entry-level MA/scribe jobs w/ no certifications 🙁

Non-clinical:

• 100 hrs - volunteering as a musician in the hospital (I play in patient rooms for the patient/families)
• 50 hrs - volunteering as a musician in a memory care facility/senior home

Leadership:

• 100 hrs - summer program counselor
• 300 hrs - unpaid equivalent of an undergraduate TA for intro bio courses
• 250 hrs - head coordinator of the music volunteer program at the hospital and the senior facility mentioned above; I played a huge role in expanding the program/lots of major achievements here
• 200 hrs - president of music club

Research:

• 700 hrs - cancer lab
• 200 hrs - community health research w/ student org; 2 posters, one presented as first author at a national conference
• 1 pub from high school lab

Other:

• 200 hrs - school job
• 50 hrs - staff musician job in our music department (to give context, similar roles are given mostly to MM/DMA students and I'm a bio major lol)
• 700 hrs - more music stuff (orchestra, etc.)

Current concern is that I basically don't have clinical hours and no shadowing - I would say that's the major weakness in my application? Obviously, all of these hours will increase over the next year and a half, but I'm having trouble finding clinical work without any certifications. It seems like nobody wants to train on the job near me. I would welcome any advice or pointers you all might have for what directions I should be exploring in my profile.

 

[polymerization]

I suspect it will take longer than a year. You have no clinical experiences and no relevant nonclinical volunteering/service orientation activities that do not actively involve music in some form or fashion. In fact, I think the musician theme is working to your detriment.

See:


Mind you, this guy was an EMT and volunteered, which is more than what you've got going on right now.

It isn't that music is bad or wrong (it's very cool and I wish I had those skills)... it's just that the medical school application process requires you to make certain claims about yourself that you cannot make credibly based on your activities as they stand today. You will be asked questions about healthcare, politics, humanity as it exists today—and you will know the "right answers" to those questions, but nobody will believe you, because all of your experiences are limited to something else entirely that does not meaningfully intersect with those topics.

I don't personally believe you don't want to be a doctor, but your file reads as if you are screaming that you don't want to be one, at the top of your lungs.

 

[astrelin]

I suspect it will take longer than a year. You have no clinical experiences and no relevant nonclinical volunteering/service orientation activities that do not actively involve music in some form or fashion. In fact, I think the musician theme is working to your detriment.

See:


Mind you, this guy was an EMT and volunteered, which is more than what you've got going on right now.

It isn't that music is bad or wrong (it's very cool and I wish I had those skills)... it's just that the medical school application process requires you to make certain claims about yourself that you cannot make credibly based on your activities as they stand today. You will be asked questions about healthcare, politics, humanity as it exists today—and you will know the "right answers" to those questions, but nobody will believe you, because all of your experiences are limited to something else entirely that does not meaningfully intersect with those topics.

I don't personally believe you don't want to be a doctor, but your file reads as if you are screaming that you don't want to be one, at the top of your lungs.

Hi, thank you for the honesty - I definitely agree with you that I'm missing a lot of clinical experience. However, assuming I can find a part-time clinical job by the summer (June ish) and continue for a year (I'm also graduating early next year), isn't that realistically enough for at least 500 hours? Also, would it be good in that case to pick up some other volunteering like volunteering at a clinic?

Regarding that video, I've seen it, but I don't think it's fair to say that guy was rejected because he was a musician. He had no clinical work for two years before he applied to med school (huge gap), submitted late, had an IA, and his personal statement was also all over the place. I don't think being a doctor and having passion for a hobby are two mutually exclusive things. I know a lot of people who did more music stuff than me in college and are currently in medical school...

 

[polymerization]

Hi, thank you for the honesty - I definitely agree with you that I'm missing a lot of clinical experience. However, assuming I can find a part-time clinical job by the summer (June ish) and continue for a year (I'm also graduating early next year), isn't that realistically enough for at least 500 hours? Also, would it be good in that case to pick up some other volunteering like volunteering at a clinic?

Regarding that video, I've seen it, but I don't think it's fair to say that guy was rejected because he was a musician. He had no clinical work for two years before he applied to med school (huge gap), submitted late, had an IA, and his personal statement was also all over the place. I don't think being a doctor and having passion for a hobby are two mutually exclusive things. I know a lot of people who did more music stuff than me in college and are currently in medical school...

To give you a sense of scale, I applied to medical school with almost 20,000 hours at the bedside. I had five interviews and got into one school. I'm not saying everyone needs or should need that many hours, I'm just saying it is really easy to underestimate the competition.

Most people are looking at this like schools are looking for a target number of hours, when in reality they will do mental math assuming a full-time job's worth of hours is 2,000 per year and they will work backwards from there. So think, if you have 2,000 hours of time in your gap year and your only activity that year consumes 500 of those hours, the obvious question becomes what you did with those 1,500 remaining hours.

This dovetails beautifully with my next point. Schools are scrutinizing your application as if the way you choose to spend time and the organizations you associate with are value judgments, even if life doesn't work that way and you didn't intend it that way. It will also have temporal-value proportionality. So if you spend your remaining 1,500 hours playing music, the signal they will receive is not going to be "I spent my gap year working clinically and sometimes playing music," they will read "I play music and sometimes stack the shelves at a clinic between gigs." The imagery is exaggerated, but it's just so you can appreciate the mindset you will need to take.

So, to address your point that medicine and music do not have to be mutually exclusive... I mean... you're absolutely 100% correct. But consider what you're really trying to do here: you're trying to exchange "music claims" for "medicine rewards." That doesn't make any sense.

If you were applying to a DMA or PhD program in music, talking about how you did 8,000 hours as an EMT or scribe obviously would not count as performance experience, but you seem to have the inverse expectation of medical schools. Without longitudinal experiences in medicine, leadership, and service, going on and on about your activities in music will confuse your readers, and they will ask, "why don't you just do that then?" It is a category/genre error.

 

[Snazzy_iceberg]

Hi, thank you for the honesty - I definitely agree with you that I'm missing a lot of clinical experience. However, assuming I can find a part-time clinical job by the summer (June ish) and continue for a year (I'm also graduating early next year), isn't that realistically enough for at least 500 hours? Also, would it be good in that case to pick up some other volunteering like volunteering at a clinic?

Regarding that video, I've seen it, but I don't think it's fair to say that guy was rejected because he was a musician. He had no clinical work for two years before he applied to med school (huge gap), submitted late, had an IA, and his personal statement was also all over the place. I don't think being a doctor and having passion for a hobby are two mutually exclusive things. I know a lot of people who did more music stuff than me in college and are currently in medical school...

If you're graduating early, find a part-time or full-time clinical role and volunteer on the weekends (food bank, homeless shelter, incarcerated populations, etc). Aim for 500 hours in clinical and community service. Hospice volunteering is also an option for clinical experience, and can be done on weekends.

 

[astrelin]

To give you a sense of scale, I applied to medical school with almost 20,000 hours at the bedside. I had five interviews and got into one school. I'm not saying everyone needs or should need that many hours, I'm just saying it is really easy to underestimate the competition.

Most people are looking at this like schools are looking for a target number of hours, when in reality they will do mental math assuming a full-time job's worth of hours is 2,000 per year and they will work backwards from there. So think, if you have 2,000 hours of time in your gap year and your only activity that year consumes 500 of those hours, the obvious question becomes what you did with those 1,500 remaining hours.

This dovetails beautifully with my next point. Schools are scrutinizing your application as if the way you choose to spend time and the organizations you associate with are value judgments, even if life doesn't work that way and you didn't intend it that way. It will also have temporal-value proportionality. So if you spend your remaining 1,500 hours playing music, the signal they will receive is not going to be "I spent my gap year working clinically and sometimes playing music," they will read "I play music and sometimes stack the shelves at a clinic between gigs." The imagery is exaggerated, but it's just so you can appreciate the mindset you will need to take.

So, to address your point that medicine and music do not have to be mutually exclusive... I mean... you're absolutely 100% correct. But consider what you're really trying to do here: you're trying to exchange "music claims" for "medicine rewards." That doesn't make any sense.

If you were applying to a DMA or PhD program in music, talking about how you did 8,000 hours as an EMT or scribe obviously would not count as performance experience, but you seem to have the inverse expectation of medical schools. Without longitudinal experiences in medicine, leadership, and service, going on and on about your activities in music will confuse your readers, and they will ask, "why don't you just do that then?" It is a category/genre error.

I'm not saying my gap year is going to be spent on music - music is more of a college extracurricular for me, and I fully expect that number of hours to drop off when I graduate. I'm planning on spending my gap year in a full-time clinical role, not doing music gigs, and I'm aiming to get more clinical hours right now and not music hours. To be clear, I graduate in March '27 (a quarter early) and would apply in June '27, so I fully expect to be able to reach 500 clinical hours by June '27 and would project at least 1000 more during the gap year in a full-time role.

 

[astrelin]

If you're graduating early, find a part-time or full-time clinical role and volunteer on the weekends (food bank, homeless shelter, incarcerated populations, etc). Aim for 500 hours in clinical and community service. Hospice volunteering is also an option for clinical experience, and can be done on weekends.

Oh, I didn't think of hospice! That's a good idea, I'll look into it. I just found some open volunteering roles for a free clinic near me so I'll look into that as well. Thank you!

 

[polymerization]

Wait, I'm not saying my gap year is going to be spent on music - music is more of a college extracurricular for me, and I fully expect that number of hours to drop off when I graduate. I'm planning on spending my gap year in a full-time clinical role, not doing music gigs, and I'm aiming to get more clinical hours right now and not music hours. My point was that I can get 500 clinical hours before the gap year begins (so when I apply in June '27), and I can definitely rack up way more during the gap year in a full-time role. Sorry if that didn't make sense initially.

I wasn't being literal, I was just giving you an extreme example so you can carry away a sense of how the way you allocate time is transformed, through the admissions process, into a signal you're sending. At least, insofar as the hours you actually put on your application.

Right now, because almost all of your activities are so directly relevant to music, unless you drown out that ratio with way more directly relevant clinical/service activities, it still won't be compelling even if you did get a couple hundred hours in the coming months. It will look like you wanted to do music and rushed to check a box a year before applying.

The experiences have to be longitudinal because real medicine is not a TV show. Not every day will bring breakthrough insights and moral dilemmas you'll get to talk about later. (There really are applicants who will shadow someone for 8 hours and claim to have learned their one true purpose in life, don't be that guy.)

You're still engaging with this process on the superficial layer and focusing on how many hours you have. That isn't "wrong," but it usually isn't enough.

Once you get those hours, you're going to have to sit down and write about them. Consider that your audience will be, at minimum, college-educated. More likely, they will be faculty or otherwise doctorally-educated. Many may be doctors themselves, and have been in your shoes.

To be successful, you have to inhabit their psychology, their incentives. They're not selecting people because one guy has 50 hours and the other has 75. You have to think beyond the number and plan accordingly. What kind of interests in medicine do you have? How are your activities showing alignment with that?

 

[Rabbsters]

Why not go get the certifications/training needed for some of these sorts of clinical jobs (EMT, Scribe, MA etc)? I think what Polymerization is trying to say is that if you don't demonstrate longitudinal passion for the medical field, schools will look at your application in a less favorable light. There's nothing wrong with being heavily involved in your school's music scene and enjoying those activities (There's D1 athletes applying to medical school with 4000+ hours in their athletics endeavors and probably have other activities related to athletics, coaching/volunteering etc), but if that is your full identity it's confusing why you want to change that identity to being a doctor. Doing 500 hours crammed in from March 2027 - Jun 2027 isn't convincing. Start now, get the entry level training, and get your hands dirty (so to speak) and firstly prove to yourself this is what you want to do then demonstrate through action that a life in the medical field is actually your passion and desire.

 

[astrelin]

Why not go get the certifications/training needed for some of these sorts of clinical jobs (EMT, Scribe, MA etc)? I think what Polymerization is trying to say is that if you don't demonstrate longitudinal passion for the medical field, schools will look at your application in a less favorable light. There's nothing wrong with being heavily involved in your school's music scene and enjoying those activities (There's D1 athletes applying to medical school with 4000+ hours in their athletics endeavors and probably have other activities related to athletics, coaching/volunteering etc), but if that is your full identity it's confusing why you want to change that identity to being a doctor. Doing 500 hours crammed in from March 2027 - Jun 2027 isn't convincing. Start now, get the entry level training, and get your hands dirty (so to speak) and firstly prove to yourself this is what you want to do then demonstrate through action that a life in the medical field is actually your passion and desire.

Sorry, I'm trying to say I can get at least a couple hundred hours between now and March '27, and definitely 500 before applying in June 2027. I have 100 clinical hours in the hospital (started around this time last year) and can get another 150 by March '27, and I hope to start another role sometime soon. Another role for 4hrs/wk even would get me 200 hours in the next 12 months, so that alone should get me to ~450 by March. I'm looking for more volunteering/work right now, but I can't afford to shell out a couple thousand dollars for certifications or classes - hence probably clinic/hospice volunteering to get more clinical experience before looking for a job. Or I guess something like ScribeAmerica is also an option?

I've been a lot in a hospital setting and I've had a lot of super meaningful experiences there. I've been a clinical volunteer and also a music volunteer, but even the music volunteering involves a lot of one-on-one patient interaction because we play in individual patient rooms. I definitely want to be in a more community/clinic-based setting, especially with increased responsibility in patient care on my part, just because I haven't had that experience before. Do you know if private clinics are receptive to cold calling? I'm honestly open to volunteering/interning without pay for a bit if that helps open opportunities for paid work later on, but it's hard to find those listings on job boards.

 

[polymerization]

If you just scramble to take any activity without foresight, you're going to get to the point of applying and not know how to put the experiences together in a cohesive way. You have to be selective.

You've worked in cancer and community health. Those are themes that open up so many possibilities. You can:
- shadow/work with a hematologist/oncologist directly
- consider opportunities in/around radiation oncology, including medical dosimetry, medical physics, PET imaging via radiology, etc
- learn more about cancer physiology by engaging with it from the pathology side
- assist with mobile mammography clinics or other public health initiatives involving cancer (community skin checks?) in your area
- engage with humanitarian organizations like Susan G. Komen (breast cancer) or Camp Kesem (support for children whose parents have cancer)
- volunteer at a hospice and work closely with the palliative care physician to better understand the experience of patients with terminal illnesses like cancer

This is definitely not an exhaustive list, just what occurs to me in the moment, but you get the idea. You want to do things that are going to give you the opportunity to sit down in the future and say "I want to be a doctor because I was led to the study of cancer by X life event, which spawned a ravenous desire to learn everything I possibly can about it in A, B, C ways—and that's why I'm here now. Because A, B, C wasn't enough. I have exhausted everything there is to do without more education."

...and you put it in the admissions committee's hands. You want it to be clear that they get to decide the next part—they are evaluating whether what you've done is "enough."

But to do that convincingly, you have to frame it and tell a good story. Pulling at straws to just do whatever is going to make your life very hard later, when every minute counts and there are no do-overs.

To clarify: it doesn't have to be cancer, but it has to be something you need a medical degree to do. It's better if you have genuine interest in cancer because it would complement the experiences you have already had... but remember that even if you have an undying love for psychiatry, or PM&R, or something—people's interests change in medical school all the time. Nobody will be suspicious if you were really into cancer when you came in and decided to apply into some other specialty by the end.

 

[astrelin]

Th

If you just scramble to take any activity without foresight, you're going to get to the point of applying and not know how to put the experiences together in a cohesive way. You have to be selective.

You've worked in cancer and community health. Those are themes that open up so many possibilities. You can:
- shadow/work with a hematologist/oncologist directly
- consider opportunities in/around radiation oncology, including medical dosimetry, medical physics, PET imaging via radiology, etc
- learn more about cancer physiology by engaging with it from the pathology side
- assist with mobile mammography clinics or other public health initiatives involving cancer (community skin checks?) in your area
- engage with humanitarian organizations like Susan G. Komen (breast cancer) or Camp Kesem (support for children whose parents have cancer)
- volunteer at a hospice and work closely with the palliative care physician to better understand the experience of patients with terminal illnesses like cancer

This is definitely not an exhaustive list, just what occurs to me in the moment, but you get the idea. You want to do things that are going to give you the opportunity to sit down in the future and say "I want to be a doctor because I was led to the study of cancer by X life event, which spawned a ravenous desire to learn everything I possibly can about it in A, B, C ways—and that's why I'm here now. Because A, B, C wasn't enough. I have exhausted everything there is to do without more education."

...and you put it in the admissions committee's hands. You want it to be clear that they get to decide the next part—they are evaluating whether what you've done is "enough."

But to do that convincingly, you have to frame it and tell a good story. Pulling at straws to just do whatever is going to make your life very hard later, when every minute counts and there are no do-overs

Thank you for the list! I actually am quite interested in cancer - I volunteer in the hospital oncology unit as well. I’ll definitely look into volunteering/clinical opportunities near me in that field. I appreciate the advice and hopefully starting more activities will give me better experience and put me into a better position to apply next year.

 

[lebronjames.]

I disagree with many who're replying. As much as people like to deny it, clinical hours are more so a check box that you need filled, so if you are able to get 500 thats more than enough. Whats more important than the number of hours is being able to turn those hours into stories that will move the reader. Even a meaningful story with 200 hours is better than 2,000 hours with blandness.

As far as your music background, thats a plus. Too many pre meds think you should only be doing pre med stuff (these are the people that don't get tons of interviews unless their stats are insane). If this is something that you're currently doing I would actually put it in most meaningful if it really means that much to you. Will make you stand out. The music coordinator at the hospital is perfect as it blends the two.

Interview invites are given to those who are memorable. If your able to be memorable with your stats great, but if they're not then you need a memorable PS and and ECs.

 

[Snazzy_iceberg]

I disagree with many who're replying. As much as people like to deny it, clinical hours are more so a check box that you need filled, so if you are able to get 500 thats more than enough. Whats more important than the number of hours is being able to turn those hours into stories that will move the reader. Even a meaningful story with 200 hours is better than 2,000 hours with blandness.

As far as your music background, thats a plus. Too many pre meds think you should only be doing pre med stuff (these are the people that don't get tons of interviews unless their stats are insane). If this is something that you're currently doing I would actually put it in most meaningful if it really means that much to you. Will make you stand out. The music coordinator at the hospital is perfect as it blends the two.

Interview invites are given to those who are memorable. If your able to be memorable with your stats great, but if they're not then you need a memorable PS and and ECs.

Agree with the clinical hours part - 500 is more than enough. I applied with a bit more this cycle and have 2 MD As.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

TL/DR: OP, why didn't you consider music therapy for a career or even clinical exposure?

I posted this in a different thread, but I share this in Becoming a Student Doctor. Yes, you still should have service orientation activities such as food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation in a humble not expert role. You should have 150 minimum hours when you submit your application to avoid getting screened out; 250 hours minimum if you want to remain in consideration for brand-name schools against applicants with many hundreds more (thousands?) hours than you have.

 

[astrelin]

If you just scramble to take any activity without foresight, you're going to get to the point of applying and not know how to put the experiences together in a cohesive way. You have to be selective.

You've worked in cancer and community health. Those are themes that open up so many possibilities. You can:
- shadow/work with a hematologist/oncologist directly
- consider opportunities in/around radiation oncology, including medical dosimetry, medical physics, PET imaging via radiology, etc
- learn more about cancer physiology by engaging with it from the pathology side
- assist with mobile mammography clinics or other public health initiatives involving cancer (community skin checks?) in your area
- engage with humanitarian organizations like Susan G. Komen (breast cancer) or Camp Kesem (support for children whose parents have cancer)
- volunteer at a hospice and work closely with the palliative care physician to better understand the experience of patients with terminal illnesses like cancer

This is definitely not an exhaustive list, just what occurs to me in the moment, but you get the idea. You want to do things that are going to give you the opportunity to sit down in the future and say "I want to be a doctor because I was led to the study of cancer by X life event, which spawned a ravenous desire to learn everything I possibly can about it in A, B, C ways—and that's why I'm here now. Because A, B, C wasn't enough. I have exhausted everything there is to do without more education."

...and you put it in the admissions committee's hands. You want it to be clear that they get to decide the next part—they are evaluating whether what you've done is "enough."

But to do that convincingly, you have to frame it and tell a good story. Pulling at straws to just do whatever is going to make your life very hard later, when every minute counts and there are no do-overs.

To clarify: it doesn't have to be cancer, but it has to be something you need a medical degree to do. It's better if you have genuine interest in cancer because it would complement the experiences you have already had... but remember that even if you have an undying love for psychiatry, or PM&R, or something—people's interests change in medical school all the time. Nobody will be suspicious if you were really into cancer when you came in and decided to apply into some other specialty by the end.

Just wanted to say I shot off a random email to a pain management doc in my school’s alumni database who works extensively in oncology just this morning and I got a positive response a few minutes ago!! W

 

[astrelin]

TL/DR: OP, why didn't you consider music therapy for a career or even clinical exposure?

I posted this in a different thread, but I share this in Becoming a Student Doctor. Yes, you still should have service orientation activities such as food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, legal support, transportation services, or housing rehabilitation in a humble not expert role. You should have 150 minimum hours when you submit your application to avoid getting screened out; 250 hours minimum if you want to remain in consideration for brand-name schools against applicants with many hundreds more (thousands?) hours than you have.

I was never going to have music as a career lol, I enjoy it a lot but the second it turns into something I have to do for a living I think I would start hating it. I will look for other service opportunities

 

[polymerization]

Just wanted to say I shot off a random email to a pain management doc in my school’s alumni database who works extensively in oncology just this morning and I got a positive response a few minutes ago!! W

That is GREAT news! Hopefully you can leverage their network to find more opportunities in the field. It's happening... things are clicking! Good luck!

 

[jdoggy]

I'm a current junior planning to apply in 2027 (so one gap year). Currently have a lot going on, and I'd like advice regarding what I should be trying to target in my EC hours (and any advice in general).

Stats: 4.0 GPA, double STEM major, taking MCAT in September
Clinical:

• 100 hrs - hospital volunteering
• 0 shadowing, 0 clinical work experience - currently looking for entry-level MA/scribe jobs w/ no certifications 🙁

Non-clinical:

• 100 hrs - volunteering as a musician in the hospital (I play in patient rooms for the patient/families)
• 50 hrs - volunteering as a musician in a memory care facility/senior home

Leadership:

• 100 hrs - summer program counselor
• 300 hrs - unpaid equivalent of an undergraduate TA for intro bio courses
• 250 hrs - head coordinator of the music volunteer program at the hospital and the senior facility mentioned above; I played a huge role in expanding the program/lots of major achievements here
• 200 hrs - president of music club

Research:

• 700 hrs - cancer lab
• 200 hrs - community health research w/ student org; 2 posters, one presented as first author at a national conference
• 1 pub from high school lab

Other:

• 200 hrs - school job
• 50 hrs - staff musician job in our music department (to give context, similar roles are given mostly to MM/DMA students and I'm a bio major lol)
• 700 hrs - more music stuff (orchestra, etc.)

Current concern is that I basically don't have clinical hours and no shadowing - I would say that's the major weakness in my application? Obviously, all of these hours will increase over the next year and a half, but I'm having trouble finding clinical work without any certifications. It seems like nobody wants to train on the job near me. I would welcome any advice or pointers you all might have for what directions I should be exploring in my profile.

For Clinical - private practice clinics like dermatology (where I work) don’t require certifications as they can train you on the job and insure you under them. Any family med/big hospital will require certifications.

For shadowing I found the best ones using my schools alumni, reach out to advisors to find out alumni nearby.

 

[AJ25]

Adcoms will ask "why medicine" when they see your app. Do you have a good answer to that? Your activities would reflect that and I don't see that they do.