TeamHealth 2024

[Porfirio]

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When is this company going to go under? So tired of the TeamHealth Cult. All their leaders are nothing but cult members. They seem to be getting more cultish too as supposedly D-Day comes for their debt load.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

One of my biggest mistakes was working for TH.

They forced me into a lot of uncomfortable situations as a new grad.

Word to the not so wise for you residents lurking: sure, go ahead and take the CMG job w the signing bonus, but it would behoove you to have at least one PRN gig ready to ramp up when TH inevitably fuxs you.

 

[emergentmd]

Our SDG was so stable that no one left. We lost 2 over 15 yrs. Best hospital EM job in town. Destination city where you only got a job if you knew someone.

TH took over and only one doc is left b/c he almost has to. Everyone else has left. Place is now offering 300/hr plus travel. Locums who don't care. New Grads who mostly stink and know how to play the game. Its sad how things have turned.

New grads needs an exit plan from day one. Not just EM but medicine. You have a big shovel, start an exit plan.

 

[RustedFox]

Our SDG was so stable that no one left. We lost 2 over 15 yrs. Best hospital EM job in town. Destination city where you only got a job if you knew someone.

TH took over and only one doc is left b/c he almost has to. Everyone else has left. Place is now offering 300/hr plus travel. Locums who don't care. New Grads who mostly stink and know how to play the game. Its sad how things have turned.

New grads needs an exit plan from day one. Not just EM but medicine. You have a big shovel, start an exit plan.

Yep.
I bolded the good part.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I would imagine things get ugly during summer and i believe they have a pretty big loan due Nov 2024. I think they will go more the way of envision than APP though. I imagine some contracts get turned over and they give up some of the lesser contracts and have a bunch of debt forgiven and either get sold or get ownership/control turned over to their bond holders Or flat out sold or a mix.

 

[ERMudPhud]

I would imagine things get ugly during summer and i believe they have a pretty big loan due Nov 2024. I think they will go more the way of envision than APP though. I imagine some contracts get turned over and they give up some of the lesser contracts and have a bunch of debt forgiven and either get sold or get ownership/control turned over to their bond holders Or flat out sold or a mix.

That is the interesting question if most of these bankruptcies go the way of Envision where do you end up? The shareholders lose everything. The bond holders lose almost everything. But the CMG comes out the other end still a CMG and still with most of their contracts but a lot less debt. Maybe even with many of the same people running the show. Just not optimistic it results in meaningful changes for the better for the docs. I guess we'll see but I'm not hopeful

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

That is the interesting question if most of these bankruptcies go the way of Envision where do you end up? The shareholders lose everything. The bond holders lose almost everything. But the CMG comes out the other end still a CMG and still with most of their contracts but a lot less debt. Maybe even with many of the same people running the show. Just not optimistic it results in meaningful changes for the better for the docs. I guess we'll see but I'm not hopeful

If my experience has taught me anything it's that hospital employment is just as shytty as CMG employment.

It's a devil with a different face.

 

[DocEspana]

When is this company going to go under? So tired of the TeamHealth Cult. All their leaders are nothing but cult members. They seem to be getting more cultish too as supposedly D-Day comes for their debt load.

Not going under any time soon. Its credit rating going down as it deals with increasingly large debts is more a function of moodys and these other companies simply using an algorithm and the algorithm is not kind to the kind of leveraging and loan taking which these CMGs utilize. So they have some massive loans coming due in november 2024 and some other ones in summer-ish 2025. But these loans are also sort of "par for the course" for the business model these CMGs use. The company still has, per external sources commenting on it, plenty of liquidity and good cashflow (at least as far as the public is aware). It obviously doesn't pay a billion dollar debt, but this whole business model is about shifting debt onto different debtors and not being the last person holding the bag with nothing to do except take the loss.

Especially in the aftermath of Envision, all of these companies and their owners know exactly what theyre doing. Fitch ratings has an article from november and Beckers has an article from late summer where they both say the same thing (im going to extremely paraphrase): Teamhealth has to do SOMETHING, but there are lots of options. But until they do SOMETHING we have to downgrade their credit rating because if they do nothing, then its going to be a hard package to sell to anyone come November 2024 or Summer 2025.

I'm not going to act like there is no risk of issues, but everything I'm seeing is very clearly saying its just a matter of how the corporate overlords ship debts and move funds and increase/decrease their percent control and not an issue of "oh **** no one can pay the debt" because the debt is still held by so many unfathomably rich companies that can move around billions without concern if there is a long term plan (usually to pass the whole company off to someone else).

 

[EctopicFetus]

That is the interesting question if most of these bankruptcies go the way of Envision where do you end up? The shareholders lose everything. The bond holders lose almost everything. But the CMG comes out the other end still a CMG and still with most of their contracts but a lot less debt. Maybe even with many of the same people running the show. Just not optimistic it results in meaningful changes for the better for the docs. I guess we'll see but I'm not hopeful

The key is to convince the hospitals it will be worse for them but I tend to agree. Keep in mind envision has new leadership and new ownership. A friend of mine does high level finance for them. Said they were a financial mess. He was pretty high up at asurion before that. No healthcare background but good at numbers.

I think some of the contracts will swap but many won’t. I actually think the docs who stay with these companies will have it even worse later on.