Techs vs pharmacists

[icekitsune]

While working in a pharmacy, do you or any other pharmacist/interns have issues with their techs especially during first hire? Either attitude clashing or techs not listening to you for whatever reason.. ect. My fellow grad pharmacist has an issue where the techs are close to the pic and complaining to the pic about how she does things. Things that I personally think its pretty minor like complaining that the rph is double counting controls or counting Non Con, when the qty looks off. I don't know what to tell my friend because I think the fact that if a RPH wants to count to double check the qty of a CS or NCS, it is really a non issue and its kinda pointless for the tech to bring up something that minor, imo? But the fact that the pic did bring it up makes me wonder what I should tell my buddy and what other interns/rph has experienced in the workplace. Is it politics or a legitimate concern?

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[Reirrac]

Having worked as a tech, I let the pharmacist do whatever s/he wants, as long as work is getting done without unnecessary delays. Anything beyond that is just politics and bad attitude in my opinion. I find it absurd that a tech is trying to tell an RPH how to do his job in a passive aggressive manner. I see how double counting can delay things a bit, but in the end it's my license on the line, and no one is going to bully me to adopt riskier work habits.

 

[icekitsune]

Having worked as a tech, I let the pharmacist do whatever s/he wants, as long as work is getting done without unnecessary delays. Anything beyond that is just politics and bad attitude in my opinion. I find it absurd that a tech is trying to tell an RPH how to do his job in a passive aggressive manner. I see how double counting can delay things a bit, but in the end it's my license on the line, and no one is going to bully me to adopt riskier work habits.

For example, what if the double counting of nc does affect the whole " 15 min" need to get the rx out to pt waiting in store? Im curious, would you consider that as unnecessary delays ( not talking about about double counting controls)? I think double counting controls is something that needs to be done regardless of the whole patient waiting thing.

 

[Reirrac]

If the RPH double counts all of the nc filled by the tech, then that may become an issue. Opening every bottle and counting 30~90 pills per bottle, per patient is a lot of time spent double counting for a day. I wonder if the person in question has a large queue of checks piling up during the shift?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

If they have a point as to why you are doing something isn't the best way to do it, I'll give credit where its due. But if they are complaining for no reason, I would tell them to shut up and count.

 

[maria1oh]

I had a tech complain about why do I open up the vials to visually inspect the tablets in the vial. She said the accuracy scanner in QP takes care of it and I don't need to inspect the tablets unless the system alerts me that accuracy scan was bypassed. She said it takes too much time to open up the vials to look inside each and every one of them.

 

[icekitsune]

If the RPH double counts all of the nc filled by the tech, then that may become an issue. Opening every bottle and counting 30~90 pills per bottle, per patient is a lot of time spent double counting for a day. I wonder if the person in question has a large queue of checks piling up during the shift?

From my understanding, my friend the rph only counts when it looks off regarding the nc. But based on what the pic says to her, the techs are saying she counts ALL nc which I truly don't believe. She opens the vials, looks at it and moves on unless the count looks off then at that point counts it out. I wonder if the techs are causing problems on purpose.

 

[Reirrac]

From my understanding, my friend the rph only counts when it looks off regarding the nc. But based on what the pic says to her, the techs are saying she counts ALL nc which I truly don't believe. She opens the vials, looks at it and moves on unless the count looks off then at that point counts it out. I wonder if the techs are causing problems on purpose.

Well then, your friend will have to make a point to firmly disagree with the tech's claims that she is counting every single nc. If the PIC has any sense then hopefully the matter will be resolved in a reasonable manner.

 

[trailerpark]

Does any pharmacist (such as staff, not pharmacy manager) have the right to send a tech home? Has anyone ever did that? What did you say and did they ever refuse, get angry, etc...

 

[gwarm01]

She said the accuracy scanner in QP takes care of it and I don't need to inspect the tablets unless the system alerts me that accuracy scan was bypassed.

I had a tech make a similar claim to me recently. I informed them that we have to trust that whoever programmed the system was 100% accurate, that any modifications/additions/deletions implemented by approved staff was likewise 100% accurate, and have to trust that whoever filled the prescription did not get distracted and mix something up after the scan took place. Basically we cannot allow a computer program to make us grow complacent, because errors still find a way to occur.

Does any pharmacist (such as staff, not pharmacy manager) have the right to send a tech home? Has anyone ever did that? What did you say and did they ever refuse, get angry, etc...

I've never had to do it, but it has gotten close before. If you are the pharmacist on duty, you are in charge and have the authority to run the place as you see fit. I work evenings/nights so if it came down to it, I absolutely would. However, if someone higher in the chain of command is available I'd say it would be smart to talk to them first.

 

[confettiflyer]

You're the pharmacist, you're in charge, and it's your job to stay above the scrum and out of the mud pit.

 

[Scruples]

That's what is wrong with pharmacy today. Technicians think they are in control and pharmacists don't respect each other. Your friend is the pharmacist on duty and she's the boss. I understand scripts should be done in a timely manner but never to sacrifice accuracy. Your friend needs to stand up for herself to these techs and let the pic know that she is a pharmacist and not another tech.

 

[Sparda29]

I'm the PIC at the independent pharmacy where I work. When I'm not there I expect my main intern to run the place while I'm gone. All I expect the pharmacist I found on Craiglist to do is to just verify and counsel and listen to the intern about the other stuff.

 

[owlegrad]

Does any pharmacist (such as staff, not pharmacy manager) have the right to send a tech home? Has anyone ever did that? What did you say and did they ever refuse, get angry, etc...

It's really easy. "Go home." If they refuse call the front store manager to let them know you have an employee refusing to leave and causing trouble. They should be fired.

 

[maria1oh]

If the techs are unionized then no you can't really do anything. They might actually like being sent home early because then they could use their PTO (paid time off) to make up for the hours. A tech got caught stealing drugs (few pills here and there) and was put on medical leave to treat her addiction and was back to work in a few weeks. She was able to also use PTO (vacation, sick days, etc) during her leave to keep on collecting a paycheck. If it was a pharmacist they would have been terminated, have their pharmacist license suspended for a year, and spend on fortune on legal fees.

If you send a tech home, the story will be twisted and you'll be labeled as inffective leader for not being able to coach and counsel them. You will be short staffed and won't be able to get everything done so the PIC will be upset with you. You'll end up getting written up for abusing your power and creating a hostile work environment.

 

[trailerpark]

The problem I'm thinking about is: what about when your a new pharmacist and the techs actually know WAY MORE than you about the workflow, patients and insurance and you need to constantly ask them questions. Doesn't it take a long time to catch up with the career techs?

 

[owlegrad]

From my understanding, my friend the rph only counts when it looks off regarding the nc. But based on what the pic says to her, the techs are saying she counts ALL nc which I truly don't believe. She opens the vials, looks at it and moves on unless the count looks off then at that point counts it out. I wonder if the techs are causing problems on purpose.

I guess I would be curious to know if the friend ever catches counting errors. If so, obviously she needs to keep double checking. If not, maybe she needs to be able to estimate better. Regardless, if she wants to count every single script that she checks it is her preoperative. I worked with a pharmacist who did ALL the counting himself. He didn't trust techs to do it.

 

[owlegrad]

The problem I'm thinking about is: what about when your a new pharmacist and the techs actually know WAY MORE than you about the workflow, patients and insurance and you need to constantly ask them questions. Doesn't it take a long time to catch up with the career techs?

In my experience, if you are humble and have an open mind, you won't have any issues with career techs. Obviously YMMV.

 

[pharm B]

I'm the PIC at the independent pharmacy where I work. When I'm not there I expect my main intern to run the place while I'm gone. All I expect the pharmacist I found on Craiglist to do is to just verify and counsel and listen to the intern about the other stuff.

Leaving the intern in charge of the pharmacy. Classic!

Have our livers recovered for another round?

 

[Sparda29]

Leaving the intern in charge of the pharmacy. Classic!

Have our livers recovered for another round?

In charge as in the intern does the order from the wholesaler, does the 14 day returns, etc.

 

[Dysic]

The problem I'm thinking about is: what about when your a new pharmacist and the techs actually know WAY MORE than you about the workflow, patients and insurance and you need to constantly ask them questions. Doesn't it take a long time to catch up with the career techs?

Like someone else mentioned - be humble and ask the techs to teach you. But don't let them act like they have a "one-up" on you. Call them out on it if you notice it. You are still the pharmacist. You are still the captain. You are still running the show because it's your license that allows the pharmacy to operate. You are still the one with the drug knowledge and the one that makes the important decisions. (ex when to clarify rx with MD, what to do in trouble situations, etc).

When I first started working as a pharmacist 8 months ago, I was the nice and easy-going staff pharmacist that everyone liked to work with (underline and bold easy-going). But it was apparent that the pharmacy was run a lot smoother when my strict pharmacy manager was running it. Now, I've finally developed a backbone and hold everyone accountable for their mistakes. I discipline everyone (including experienced techs). But I treat everyone fairly and hold myself accountable as well. You have to earn the techs respect (not demand it) and treat them fairly. It also helps if you have good drug knowledge...because that always impresses them 🙂

My problem now is how to get through to a chatty, lazy, disrespectful, absent-minded, mistake-prone clerk....to improve his work. The pharmacy recently opened couple years ago and no one has ever been written up or sent home. But I'm close to changing that history.

 

[icekitsune]

I guess I would be curious to know if the friend ever catches counting errors. If so, obviously she needs to keep double checking. If not, maybe she needs to be able to estimate better. Regardless, if she wants to count every single script that she checks it is her preoperative. I worked with a pharmacist who did ALL the counting himself. He didn't trust techs to do it.

I talked to her just now. Because she isn't as experienced, she checks when it looks off cause sometimes she can't tell if its the right qty but she doesn't count all NC. She counts all CS and those that look a bit off to her. She does catch errors with qty but its kind of rare but it happens. I just find it really petty for the techs to complain to the pic about that and then for the pic to actually have to address it cause it was "irritating/pissing " the techs off

 

[owlegrad]

I talked to her just now. Because she isn't as experienced, she checks when it looks off cause sometimes she can't tell if its the right qty but she doesn't count all NC. She counts all CS and those that look a bit off to her. She does catch errors with qty but its kind of rare but it happens. I just find it really petty for the techs to complain to the pic about that and then for the pic to actually have to address it cause it was "irritating/pissing " the techs off

Eh, it really sounds overblown to me. Techs always try to play the RPhs against each other, just like children try to play parents against each other. The best advice I would give would be to ignore it and just rise above.

 

[oldstock]

Does any pharmacist (such as staff, not pharmacy manager) have the right to send a tech home? Has anyone ever did that? What did you say and did they ever refuse, get angry, etc...

I do not remember all the details, but my brother who is a pharmacist (not me 🙂 ) did send a tech home when the tech refused to do what he told her to do. Her reasons to not listening to my brother were that she had been working as a tech for like 20+ years and she thought her way was a better way to do things. My brother asked her if she had gone to pharmacy school and got a pharmacist license and who was responsible for everything in the pharmacy then, and if she continued that attitude, he would send her home. She refused to do the job my brother assigning her to do, he told her to get out of the pharmacy and go home. She took it up with the store manager and district pharmacy manager and my brother told them either her or him going home. He won that round !! 🙂

But that was early 2000's. I do not know that a tech can refuse to do a job (reasonable one) these days. In all fairness, who is the boss here ?? Try not to listen to your boss in any job, and see who get sent home. It is not a question of rights, it is common sense lol 🙂

 

[owlegrad]

My brother asked her if she had gone to pharmacy school and got a pharmacist license and who was responsible for everything in the pharmacy then, and if she continued that attitude, he would send her home. She refused to do the job my brother assigning her to do, he told her to get out of the pharmacy and go home.

Your brother sounds like a jerk.

 

[oldstock]

Your brother sounds like a jerk.

You need to be a jerk to be a boss or they will **** on your head dude 😉

 

[Dysic]

You need to be a jerk to be a boss or they will **** on your head dude 😉

For defiant and insubordinate techs...I agree. Don't hold the jerk/*sshole attitude back...and let them know who's boss. But for routine management of your staff, it's important to be fair (not be a jerk) and hold everyone (including yourself) accountable. People work better and harder when you empower them and give them confidence in their ability.....hence, makes your job and the pharmacy run smoother.

 

[oldstock]

For defiant and insubordinate techs...I agree. Don't hold the jerk/*sshole attitude back...and let them know who's boss. But for routine management of your staff, it's important to be fair (not be a jerk) and hold everyone (including yourself) accountable. People work better and harder when you empower them and give them confidence in their ability.....hence, makes your job and the pharmacy run smoother.

Well said !! 👍👍

 

[owlegrad]

You need to be a jerk to be a boss or they will **** on your head dude 😉

Couldn't disagree more. If you have to be a jerk to get your staff to do there job, something is wrong. I don't mean you have to be Mr. Nice Guy all the time, you can be tough but fair without being a jerk about it. Asking a tech "Did you go to pharmacy school blah blah blah" is just rude. Do you really think techs are going to respond favorably to that kind of management? Would you?

 

[oldstock]

Couldn't disagree more. If you have to be a jerk to get your staff to do there job, something is wrong. I don't mean you have to be Mr. Nice Guy all the time, you can be tough but fair without being a jerk about it. Asking a tech "Did you go to pharmacy school blah blah blah" is just rude. Do you really think techs are going to respond favorably to that kind of management? Would you?

I agree with some of your points. I do not like rudeness or hostile management or working environment. But like I said, i do not remember all the details now. It seemed like the tech was defiant and having an attitude about the assigned job and my brother. So while my brother might have lost his cool, a little "rudeness" was needed to put that tech in her place and with the reality. It is the tech to know some common sense before being defiant to their bosses. Just ask yourself what would you do if you had been the tech ?? Would you be defiant or insubordinate ??

The point is, as the pharmacist in charge of the pharmacy, it is within your right to send a tech home when you see fit or necessary because you are the one who is responsible for everything happening in the pharmacy (hence the authority). It is your pharmacist license and your life on the line, not the tech's.

 

[Sparda29]

One of my techs told me I order way too much stuff from our supplier and thinks we should only keep the bare minimum in stock, while I believe in keeping a large supply of common meds (and every strength available) and a small supply of uncommon/rarely used meds. Tech thinks I should order the uncommon/rare stuff when the scripts come for it. (Before I became PIC here, the average daily order came out to $200-300. In the last week, I've ordered about $4500 worth of meds.)

PS: This is an independent pharmacy operation, neither I or the tech are the owner. From my point of view, when you're a new store that is doing 25 scripts/day average, you don't want to risk losing a new customer by not having something in stock.