temple or nymc?

[sharsky]

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hey guys,
which school would you pick? i'm waitlisted for both schools but i would like to write a letter of intent. is it wrong to choose a school based on location? i'm leaning towards temple since my older sister lives in philly. however i was turned off my temple's facilities especially the library and study space. nymc's facilities and location were much nicer and its curriculum seems to prepare students well for the boards.

 

[Audioslave]

I'd definitely pick NYMC. The students seem happier, the facilities are nicer, the med school hasn't been on probation, the match list is good, and the caf doesn't give you food poisoning unlike in temple (yes - that's what I got when I went to that damn school for an interview).

 

[TheRussian]

I would definetely go to NYMC. Though of course location is important, Vallhala is not that far from philly so it shouldn't deter you. Like you said, the facilities at Temple are anything but impressive. The bigger issue for me though was that Temple is in the worst part of Philly and although that makes for a great experience during rotations, I don't think it's worth for the raised anxiety that I experienced the second I stepped of the campus. I rather sacrifice some of the variety of experiences to feel safe while at school but that's just me.

 

[sharsky]

hey audioslave...it's funny you got food poisoning when you went to temple coz i got food poisoning at nymc! i had chinese take out there with my student host and i threw up during orientation in front of the other interviewees! hehe, so i'm not surprised i got waitlisted since i did so poorly in my interview!

 

[Audioslave]

Man you caught a terrible break. But I got food poisoning from the Temple caf! I mean, what do people have to eat when they go to Philly? A cheese steak, of course. I don't know how I didn't puke on the train on my way back...
Btw NYMC has great waitlist movement so you should be able to get in eventually. Just look for that Airborne Express package.

 

[uclacrewdude]

I would definetely go to NYMC. Though of course location is important, Vallhala is not that far from philly so it shouldn't deter you. Like you said, the facilities at Temple are anything but impressive. The bigger issue for me though was that Temple is in the worst part of Philly and although that makes for a great experience during rotations, I don't think it's worth for the raised anxiety that I experienced the second I stepped of the campus. I rather sacrifice some of the variety of experiences to feel safe while at school but that's just me.

i) going to school in the bad part of philly is not a big deal. enough common sense and acclimation will enable you to cope just like millions of people before. this is coming from someone who did undergrad just outside of bel air.

ii) the facilities at temple are adequate, but the staff is astounding. you can tell they are totally stoked about teaching and always have their doors open. theyre the kind of people you can talk to about anything.

iii) remember guys, you know the probation has nothing to do with the quality of education -- it was for student indebtedness (which they solved by dropping the number of admits so they have more money for each student) and campus facilities (which they solved/are solving with expanded study areas, wifi all around campus, and theyre building a new research building).

iv) temple has a number of staff that write questions for the boards. taking the shelf exams (baby boards), its easy to see they taught exactly whats going to be asked on the boards.

v) the match list is surprisingly good at temple too. thats more an effect of temple having a remarkable reputation for making good clinicians.

vi) if you want to get involved in your community or politically, temple has a wider array of more involved schools than nymc. i feel like i can make more of a difference at temple than anywhere else. really allows you to live up to your responsibility as a physician.

of course, i wouldnt have said these things a year ago. everyone knows that temple was the absolute last choice i woulda made, and since they were the only school to take me i figured it was better than nothing. well, it turned out to be way better than a lot of things. take it from someone who never wanted to come out here in the first place -- temple rocks.

 

[MED123]

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[MED123]

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[b1nge]

i would go pick temple.

 

[RoccoWJ]

If you like the wheels on your car and you want to get a white coat instead of a bullet proof coat, don't go to temple. Plus the assistant director of admissions is backstabbing!

 

[ForensicPath]

I'm not going to Temple, but I live in philly right now and I have been to the Temple campus. Yes, the area is kind of crappy and not as safe and sound as the suburbs, but I honestly don't know what the big deal is. People on these boards equate that area of philly to Beirut or something. If you keep your wits about you there is no reason why Temple's "dangerous" location should deter you from attending the school. Not to mention that you are young once and when you are older and established you will not want to live anywhere near an area like that. Temple would provide a "street education" that you really can't get anywhere else.

Also, statistically speaking, the majority of homicides occur between people that know each other. Generally people don't go around shooting random people. That being said, you would probably be more likely to need a bullet proof vest when you are at home with a spouse or drinking with a friend as opposed to wandering the streets of philadelphia.

 

[KarateGirl]

On my tour of Temple, the student guides told us that Temple has the 3rd largest police force in the state, and I saw them patroling pretty much constantly while I was there. They also pointed out the stadium lighting on the buildings, and said that you can get an escort if you need it anytime. I did my undergrad in Baltimore, so the area didn't really phase me (besides, I consider myself pretty well equipped to handle being in a dangerous environment). Even so, if you're smart and use common sense, you'll be ok. But I do understand if that's a major concern.

As far as Temple vs. NYMC, I guess it depends. I live near NYMC, and I can tell you it's BORING. There are some bars and clubs about 15 minutes away, but even those get old pretty quick. NYC's about 45 minutes away, but the students I spoke to get there maybe once or twice a month. Hell, I'm not even in school right now and I can barely be bothered to get into Manhattan all that often. The facilities at NYMC are pretty amazing. The anatomy lab is gorgeous (which is an odd thing to say about a dissection lab!). When I asked a couple of students how they liked it there, they said, "pretty good" (and not much else). I got the impression they weren't completely thrilled. I've also heard that the quality of teaching is mixed, but that's probably true of most schools. Temple's facilities are not as nice, but I've heard great things about the faculty, and everyone I've talked to from there really loves it.

For every school, there are going to be some people who love it and some who don't. It's hard to know which you'll be until you're there, but the best thing you can do IMO is to try to spend some time at each school, sit in on a class if you can, and talk to current students. It's a difficult and scary process.

Oh, by the way, if you interviewed there you probably know this already, but NYMC is next to the county jail. I actually grew up across the street, so I can tell you it's basically safe (although there was this one time an inmate escaped and hid out in my classmate's house--he was caught, though 🙂 ), but some people aren't comfortable with that. Compared to Temple, though, I think it's still safer.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[hypersting]

Maybe its me, but sometimes I don't get people on here.

If a place is in a suburban/rural location, its boring and there's nothing to do. If its in an urban location like Temple its too unsafe and if its in a rich urban area its too expensive for students. In any case, in evaluating your decision, make sure you figure out what is important to you. Those schools have a couple of key differences and figure out which way you'd lean based on those. I wouldn't let Temple's location deter me, in fact, its a great source of teaching, but someone else might be so comfortable working (not living necessarily, remember) in north philadelphia.

Issues to consider .. urban vs suburban, match list, central teaching hospital vs multiple locations, proximity to current family/social circle, whether you want to have a car or not, impressions of students who currently attend ... also probably a few more you can think of. I think that will make your decision more clear.

 

[DrBodacious]

Maybe its me, but sometimes I don't get people on here.

If a place is in a suburban/rural location, its boring and there's nothing to do. If its in an urban location like Temple its too unsafe and if its in a rich urban area its too expensive for students. In any case, in evaluating your decision, make sure you figure out what is important to you. Those schools have a couple of key differences and figure out which way you'd lean based on those. I wouldn't let Temple's location deter me, in fact, its a great source of teaching, but someone else might be so comfortable working (not living necessarily, remember) in north philadelphia.

Here here!

 

[Sean2tall]

I have to say I never really thought twice about the location of schools like Temple in applying to them. Johns Hopkins is not in the nicest of places, but that wouldn't stop me from going 😉. Anyway, I have thought twice about the location of schools like NYMC and Penn State, just because I couldn't imagine being stuck without anything to do. I declined my interview at NYMC so I can't help you much there, but as far as Temple, I can say that I think it has a much better rep than its ranking (lack of) suggests. Everybody I tell I am going there, says "Oh wow that's such a good school." Maybe that's just because they are not up on all of their medical school reps, but I think that ala uclacrewdude's post, people really respect Temple docs. The matchlist is pretty impressive to me. I am thinking about ditching my waitlist spots at a couple of higher ranked schools and just going to Temple.

 

[fullefect1]

You should send a LOI to both schools. Thats what I would do, forget that ehtical/moral obligations crap.... You need to get off the waitlist at one of them. No if you were accepted to both of them, then it would be a different story.

 

[Sean2tall]

You should send a LOI to both schools. Thats what I would do, forget that ehtical/moral obligations crap.... You need to get off the waitlist at one of them. No if you were accepted to both of them, then it would be a different story.

I don't think there would be anything wrong with writing one letter that says the school is your top choice and another saying that you would still very much like to go there. I would feel shady though if I literally said they were both my #1 choice.

 

[Zweihander]

Can't compare to Temple because I don't know, but NYMC is a good place and I at least am glad I chose to come here. One thing I will say is that if you really want an urban environment, this place will drive you insane. I've lived in the city most of my life and am pretty tired of it, so this is a nice change, and I enjoy the setting and the pace. As far as the school goes, the facilities are great (although the gym is blah), and we have faculty that range from fantastic to poor, so it's a mixed bag. I also think that, no matter where you go, having good classmates is key. Medschool can be really painful otherwise. So, there is going to be an element of crapshoot regardless of the decision you make -- if you get the impression that you'll have a better class at one school over another, consider that as well.

 

[Zweihander]

You should send a LOI to both schools. Thats what I would do, forget that ehtical/moral obligations crap.... You need to get off the waitlist at one of them. No if you were accepted to both of them, then it would be a different story.

Sage advice. I'm glad to know there will be doctors out there who feel okay with forgetting the "ehtical[sic]/moral obligations crap." 🙄


To the OP: you can write a letter of interest to multiple schools if you're not sure of a top choice, where you just tell them what you like about their school and why you could see yourself going there. That's what I did, and it worked fine for me.


peace

 

[izzyfine]

Hey Everybody,

Well, this was not the easiest decision I ever made but I went with NYMC. I couldn't really figure out which school had the better reputation but I figured any medical school in NY had to be somewhat competitive. Temple I'm sure is a good school, but treating/dealing with inner city patients is not always as fun as the producers on ER would have you believe. I became a paramedic in a city (not philly) and can tell you that many of those patients are very abusive. Being able to communicate with patients from all walks of life IS IMPORTANT but I had to be a little selfish on this one. Temple gets one shooting a day and that is great if you like traumatic intubations and chest tubes but (at least for me) that sort of patient base I'm sure takes its toll. 🙁

I just felt that seeing as how I will probably be parked in front of a book for the next two years I may as well have a tree to look at while studying. I don't think you should be overly concerned for your safety while at Temple but four years surronded by concrete and cops...ughh.

Hey, if you like urban living NYMC has affiliates in the city like St. Vincents (also a level 1 trauma center) and approx. half of the 3rd & 4th years go to do their rotations in NYC (NYMC provides some housing I believe). Also you are right next to westchester medical center and they are a pretty large trauma center so you will still get to see some stuff.

My question is this (seeing as how neither is ranked on US News) which one do you think has the best reputation as far as prestige goes? 😕

 

[uclacrewdude]

Hey Everybody,

Well, this was not the easiest decision I ever made but I went with NYMC. I couldn't really figure out which school had the better reputation but I figured any medical school in NY had to be somewhat competitive. Temple I'm sure is a good school, but treating/dealing with inner city patients is not always as fun as the producers on ER would have you believe. I became a paramedic in a city (not philly) and can tell you that many of those patients are very abusive. Being able to communicate with patients from all walks of life IS IMPORTANT but I had to be a little selfish on this one. Temple gets one shooting a day and that is great if you like traumatic intubations and chest tubes but (at least for me) that sort of patient base I'm sure takes its toll. 🙁

I just felt that seeing as how I will probably be parked in front of a book for the next two years I may as well have a tree to look at while studying. I don't think you should be overly concerned for your safety while at Temple but four years surronded by concrete and cops...ughh.

Hey, if you like urban living NYMC has affiliates in the city like St. Vincents (also a level 1 trauma center) and approx. half of the 3rd & 4th years go to do their rotations in NYC (NYMC provides some housing I believe). Also you are right next to westchester medical center and they are a pretty large trauma center so you will still get to see some stuff.

My question is this (seeing as how neither is ranked on US News) which one do you think has the best reputation as far as prestige goes? 😕

i have personally beat zwei in 3 out of 5 arm wrestling matches. as designated reps for each of our schools, i think the reputation answer is obvious.

 

[PeruvianDoctor]

My brothers at temple for law school and says its nothing but crackheads and he fears for his life all the time. I asked him if I should apply there and he said no, he thought the ghetto wasn't going to be as bad as it seemed and he was greatly surprised at the horrific life over in philly. He told me a crackhead stole his muffin a week ago and it pissed him off...

 

[PakFistInYoMouf]

this report is nearly a decade old--but it places Temple 49 versus NYMC at 81. I don't know much about the Gourman report regarding criteria, etc, but its an alternative to USNEWS i suppose. I like Temple, but both good schools at any rate--goodluck w/ the waitlist.
~suh

Here are the '96 Gourman rankings (top to bottom)

1. Harvard
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Penn
4. UCSF
5. YALE
6. UCHICAGO
7. Columbia
8. Stanford
9. Cornell
10. Michigan
11. UCLA
12. Duke
13. WA U
14. Northwestern
15. UMinn
16. Tulane
17. URoch
18. Vandy
19. NYU
20. UCSD
21. UVA
22. UNC-Chapel Hill
23. Tufts
24. UCDavis
25. BU
26. Indiana U
27. UWisc
28. UIll
29. UIowa
30. UWash
31. Georgetown
32. OhioState
33. SUNY-Buff
34. GWU
35. UC Irvine
36. Baylor
37. Bowman Gray
38. Emory
39. UPitt
40. LomaLinda
41. Einstein
42. ULouisville
43. Loyola Chicago
44. SLU
45. Dartmouth
46. USC
47. UMissouri
48. Wayne
49. Temple
50. SUNY Stony
51. Brown
52. Case Western
53. Sinai
54. UCONN
55. UKansas
56. Creighton
57. UCOL
58. UMaryland
59. OHSU
60. Albany
61. UUTAH
62. UFLA
63. MAYO
64. Miami
65. Michigan State
66. UTEX SW
67. UMissouri KC
68. UTEX Galv
69. UTEX SA
70. PennState
71. SUNY-Brooklyn
72. UCincinatti
73. SUNY-Syracuse
74. LSU-NO
75. UAL
76. UNEB
77. UKENT
78. UVM
79. LSU-SHreve
80. UTENN
81. NYMC
82. JEFF
83. UOK
84. WVU
85. UTEX-Houston
86. UARK
87. MCP/HAHN
88. UMDNJ
89. UARIZONA
90. USFLA
91. MC South Car
92. UMississi
93. MeHarry
94. Rush
95. UVA-Richmond
96. MC Georgia
97. MC Ohio
98. Finch
99. Howard
100. UNMex
101. Southern Ill
102. TEXTECH
103. UMDNJ-Rutgers
104. UHAWAII
105. UMASS
106. MC Wisc
107. U Puerto
108. U South Carolina
109. UNevada
110. Uniformed
111. UNorthDak
112. USouthDak
113. Northeastern Ohio
114. East Carol
115. Marshall
116. E VA
117. E Tenn
118. U So Carol-Mobile
119. Tex AM
120. VA Cmmnwealth
121. Wright State
122. Morehouse
123. Mercer
124. Ponce
125. U Cen Del Caribe

 

[uclacrewdude]

My brothers at temple for law school and says its nothing but crackheads and he fears for his life all the time. I asked him if I should apply there and he said no, he thought the ghetto wasn't going to be as bad as it seemed and he was greatly surprised at the horrific life over in philly. He told me a crackhead stole his muffin a week ago and it pissed him off...

ok, now im a reasonable man ...

when reading this post i thought, wow -- this dude seriously missed the last couple of posts here. surely your brother at temple told you that the law campus isnt the same as the health sciences campus, yeah? i see you went to school at cal poly pomona (non-west coasters: its not the famed cal poly SLO, but more in the butt-pluggy part of LA's suburban wasteland), so you know, from my prior posts, that temple is pretty much comparable to USC. ie, only pansies really are scared of the area. and dude, im from UCLA, so if I dont rag on USC, nobody should. thats totally horrendous -- i have NEVER heard of anyone actually surviving a muffin theft ... thank god he had the inner strength to keep it together and keep on keepin on.

then i realized again that peruvian doc probably did miss most of the other posts here, and a lot of life in general. so i made a timeline ...

jesus, ive been comedy gold this week.

 

[KarateGirl]

My brothers at temple for law school and says its nothing but crackheads and he fears for his life all the time. I asked him if I should apply there and he said no, he thought the ghetto wasn't going to be as bad as it seemed and he was greatly surprised at the horrific life over in philly. He told me a crackhead stole his muffin a week ago and it pissed him off...

That reminds me of my undergrad years in Baltimore. We couldn't eat at the fast food restaurants, because inevitably, some scary-looking guy would come up to us and try to take some of our food. One time this guy came up to us at KFC, looked at a piece of chicken, looked at us, said "you gonna eat that?" and then just grabbed it off the plate. We all just looked at each other like "WTF?!?!" When we looked back on it, it was actually kinda funny. Ah, my freshman naivete... 🙂

Anyway, I was an (sort of) innocent little white girl from surburbia, and I survived my years in Baltimore just fine. Yes, it was dangerous. Yes, there was a lot of crime (the weekly crime reports in the school paper were some of the most entertaining stuff I've ever read). Yes, one guy at my school did get his face slashed. Yes, all the cabs and fast food restaurants had bullet-proof glass (the booth at Temple's parking lot made me a little nostalgic). Yes, I wasn't always completely smart about going out at night, but I usually used reasonable common sense and did ok. I definitely know better now.

The other thing to remember about Temple is that most of the students don't live in that area. So it's the commute that is dangerous, and again, if you're not comfortable going anywhere alone you get an escort. Personally, I like the excitement of the urban setting, and I don't have a problem dealing with the danger factor. But there are some people who would be almost guaranteed to be walking targets and those people probably should stay away for their own safety.

 

[sharsky]

hey guys,
thanks for all your feedback and this has become a very active and interesting thread. i have the matchlist for both schools however i don't know how to compare and see which one is a better matchlist. nymc students seem to do really well on the boards since they have a 99% passing rate. does anybody know which school has a matchlist of how i would go comparing between these schools?

 

[PeruvianDoctor]

I was half joking you ass. Jimmy eat world sucks and temple is on probation.

 

[uclacrewdude]

I am an ass. Jimmy eat world sucks and temple is on probation.

there, fixed it for ya.

yes, jimmy eat world sucks.
no, temple is not on probation.

 

[hypersting]

there, fixed it for ya.

To the OP ->
Matchlist is a tricky thing, since you don't know where they wanted to go. Like if I want to do family medicine in nebraska, you might not think thats a competitive match, but its good for me. Generally, look for matches in ENT, optho, derm, urology, plastic, neurosurg, radiology and look for famous hospitals, like children's hosp philly for peds, mass gen for IM, etc.

 

[teena524]

a friend of mine goes to Temple medical school and he told me once that he was in the lib and as he was in the elevator, there was a button for the 4th floor (somehting like that).. he did not know this floor had existed.. once he he got there he was faced with a brick wall saying "if you're reading this, you paid too much for tuition". did i mention i was bad at telling stories. this did not help you at all. or did it. later and good luck