Terminated but have matched into different program

[KH7780]

I am a PGY1 prelim surgical resident. I have matched into psychiatry and will start in July 2021. My current surgical training got terminated and I got fired due to serious neglect. Will that affect my psychiatric acceptance? i.e am I getting fired as well from the psychiatric program? Will that affect my visa transition?

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[blue.jay]

I am a PGY1 prelim surgical resident. I have matched into psychiatry and will start in July 2021. My current surgical training got terminated and I got fired due to serious neglect. Will that affect my psychiatric acceptance? i.e am I getting fired as well from the psychiatric program? Will that affect my visa transition?

I have heard that if you are fired/terminated, ecfmg won't sponsor J1 visa.

 

[Smurfette]

I am a PGY1 prelim surgical resident. I have matched into psychiatry and will start in July 2021. My current surgical training got terminated and I got fired due to serious neglect. Will that affect my psychiatric acceptance? i.e am I getting fired as well from the psychiatric program? Will that affect my visa transition?

You need to reach out to your psych PD ASAP and let them know what happened and see what they say. If you still have a job for July, then your next step is to check on the visa issue.

 

[blue.jay]

SEVIS Termination​

General Information

All ECFMG-sponsored physicians are required to maintain J-1 status while in the United States. To maintain J-1 status, physicians must be engaged in full-time programs of graduate medical education and compliant with all federal regulations, U.S. laws, and ECFMG rules for program participation.*
If a physician is not compliant with regulations, laws, or sponsor rules, and/or is terminated from a training program due to a disciplinary action** or other significant issue related to professionalism, medical knowledge, and/or patient care, the individual may also be subject to termination in Student and Exchange Visitor Information Systems (SEVIS). In cases of termination, the “30-day grace period” typically afforded to J visa holders does not apply. Days of unlawful presence will begin when the SEVIS record is terminated.

Consequences of DS-2019/SEVIS Termination

1. Those terminated in SEVIS are not eligible for future ECFMG sponsorship.
2. Delayed departure after termination of a SEVIS record may impact an individual’s ability to secure a U.S. visa and/or qualify for future reentry into the United States.
3. If an individual’s SEVIS record is terminated and the individual remains in the United States, s/he will likely accrue unlawful presence. This can have serious repercussions and may result in the individual being barred from the United States for many years, or even permanently

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The short answer is: No, you're not automatically fired from your psych residency, your match agreement may actually protect you, but you have some huge problems ahead.

The long answer:

You've mentioned "your visa transition", and that's going to be a huge problem. If you are on a J visa, then you have a big problem -- you can't stay in the US without a valid visa, being "out of status" may make it impossible to get a new visa, and you don't get the grace period. Same is true with an H visa, and for anyone on a family visa. If you're on an H, your employer may be required to pay for your return home

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there.

The match is binding on all parties. You matched to a psych program -- you must go there, and they must take you. Your application was honest when you submitted it and matched. Your application was not contingent upon completing the surgical PGY-1, since you'll be starting as a PGY-1 again. This assumes that the firing happened after the rank deadline -- if it happened beforehand, the program could make the argument that you were required to update them about this. That's a complicated argument, I could see it either way (the same way that if you get a S2 score after you've applied, it's your choice whether you want to release it or not. My sense is that a program would not be able to get a match waiver over this.

But, unfortunately I think you have bigger problems. Your program is certain to report this to the Board of Medicine. When you apply for a license in your new state (or if you're staying in your old state), they will see this. It's going to likely cause problems with getting a license -- and if you fail to get licensed, that will be a reason to waive your match

I agree that you had better reach out to your PD now. They are going to hear about this, and better coming from you. You've been vague about what happened but you had absolutely better address this head on, whatever it is. And if you are on a visa, you need to deal with that situation immediately.

Best case scenario is that you leave the US immediately (or get a visitor visa to stay), you still get licensed, and get to start your new program. But there are lots of problems ahead.

Last, you need to deal with whatever happened to cause this problem in the first place. Best of luck.

 

[fecalith]

There is no way he/she could get a visitor's visa at this point

 

[Redpancreas]

The short answer is: No, you're not automatically fired from your psych residency, your match agreement may actually protect you, but you have some huge problems ahead.

The long answer:

You've mentioned "your visa transition", and that's going to be a huge problem. If you are on a J visa, then you have a big problem -- you can't stay in the US without a valid visa, being "out of status" may make it impossible to get a new visa, and you don't get the grace period. Same is true with an H visa, and for anyone on a family visa. If you're on an H, your employer may be required to pay for your return home

Unfortunately, it doesn't end there.

The match is binding on all parties. You matched to a psych program -- you must go there, and they must take you. Your application was honest when you submitted it and matched. Your application was not contingent upon completing the surgical PGY-1, since you'll be starting as a PGY-1 again. This assumes that the firing happened after the rank deadline -- if it happened beforehand, the program could make the argument that you were required to update them about this. That's a complicated argument, I could see it either way (the same way that if you get a S2 score after you've applied, it's your choice whether you want to release it or not. My sense is that a program would not be able to get a match waiver over this.

But, unfortunately I think you have bigger problems. Your program is certain to report this to the Board of Medicine. When you apply for a license in your new state (or if you're staying in your old state), they will see this. It's going to likely cause problems with getting a license -- and if you fail to get licensed, that will be a reason to waive your match

I agree that you had better reach out to your PD now. They are going to hear about this, and better coming from you. You've been vague about what happened but you had absolutely better address this head on, whatever it is. And if you are on a visa, you need to deal with that situation immediately.

Best case scenario is that you leave the US immediately (or get a visitor visa to stay), you still get licensed, and get to start your new program. But there are lots of problems ahead.

Last, you need to deal with whatever happened to cause this problem in the first place. Best of luck.

NAPD to summarize it seems like there are potential pitfalls but as long as OP goes back home and is granted a training license in the state they're doing they're psych residency in (which to you seems like a big if), they should be ready to go.

When it comes to licensing, who are the ones making the decision on whether to push through a training license? Is it a committee of physicians who review on a case by case basis or is it just a paper pusher? When I reapplied for a training license in the same state, I paid a $100 fee and it was approved immediately.

 

[mvenus929]

And... if it all works out and you don't have any issues starting on time in July, you can surely bet that you will be under a microscope, so whatever it was that caused you to be fired, you better make sure nothing remotely similar happens again. Firing a resident is not an easy thing to do, so I imagine you had to do something big, or have a consistent history of doing smaller things.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Beg your program to keep you on research until the end of the year. You don’t need credit for the year, just not to be fired