Terminated from residency, Applying again, Need advice

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If you know what I am supposed to do now, please share your thoughts.

learn from your mistakes...give up on applying to IM, its not for you...you have already proven this by the fact that you squandered the chance that you were given to train in IM...that is what you are supposed to do.
 
I know a couple of people that got terminated from ortho residency. They are now in FM. These people were studs and had to settle for what they could get to salvage their careers. It is very unlikely you will continue your training in the US as a visa needing FMG after being terminated. You can get exceptionally lucky, but it would be highly unlikely in IM. Try FM or path, you might get lucky.

Also, what’s wrong with practicing IM back home? I’m sure they need aspiring IM physicians such as yourself.

I have invested a lot of time, effort and resources on my US journey. I wanted to be successful here. I was never a quitter in my life. I still remember how hard I worked to clear usmles, participate in research and do away electives in the US. I feel like I would be wasting all that if I stay in my country. I am okay to leave once I get the american board but not before that. Moreover, It is a different ball game to start all over again in my home country.
 
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learn from your mistakes...give up on applying to IM, its not for you...you have already proven this by the fact that you squandered the chance that you were given to train in IM...that is what you are supposed to do.

I will give up on IM. But, please don't tell my chance to try for another branch is very difficult. I already feel constantly demotivated. It is a cycle for the past 9 months. I am okay with pathology. I have emailed few pathology program directors, they seem ok with my termination and told that I might have a decent chance if I clear step 3 and do observerships in pathology. Each comment you guys make will have a major impact on my mindset.

I am ready to work on whatever it takes. I am prepared to dedicate 1 or 2 years of time in research in any other branch, but only if I can see things might end up positively. Otherwise, I will be wasting more and more of my parent's money. It's hard for me to focus on my goal without hoping to see the fruits of it.
 
I am okay with other countries too where USMLEs are accepted. I am looking into it too. I really wanted to make use of the hard work that I invested in my step preparation. I have heard Ireland and New Zealand accepts steps in lieu of their tests.
 
All of the advice given IS to help you with your applications. Go back through the posts and you will find that:

1) you have received advice on which programs to apply to, and to not restrict yourself to just IM.

2) you have been given advice on things you should include in your personal statement about the termination - i.e. What anyone who would consider offering an interview would want to know about how you have grown from the experience.

3) you have been given advice on how not to discuss your prior experience, and how not to come across as someone who blames everyone else for their problems.

4) you have been given advice on the ethics of withholding information like termination- it is unprofessional

5) you have been given a realistic estimate chance of your success. I know its not what you want to hear, but its the truth. If you understood what we are trying to explain to you then perhaps you would not waste Years of your life and your parents money, in pursuit of prestige? The american dream?

What and how you choose to proceed is your choice alone. Nobody on the internet cares what you choose to do, but You cannot say that no-one told you it would be hard, or no one tried to help you when you refuse to accept the help/advice offered.

It might be time to close this thread....
 
I know you are trying to help me. But you did not exactly get which aspects I am seeking help in. My question is clear that I am looking for help in regards to how to prepare my application for my next match to have a shot. I am not here looking for help how to change myself to acclimatize to the US system etc. I am constantly saying I knew what went wrong and I am ready to correct myself. I think I can convince the interviewer about what went wrong in my previous program and I have friends to discuss what to tell and what not to tell. My question was different, the answers I am getting are different.

What you think you need help in and what you actually need help in may be different. As others have said, you need to really have a strong insight into what happened and how to explain it. You need humility. You need to avoid blaming your program even if they had significant blame. No future PD wants to hear its all the program's fault. Programs are not generally in the business of firing their residents. It actually takes multiple, continued issues to get fired for the most part. You don't seem to express the insight that many people feel is needed for you to be successful in obtaining a future position. People here are trying to help you. You should be open to it.
 
I know you are trying to help me. But you did not exactly get which aspects I am seeking help in. My question is clear that I am looking for help in regards to how to prepare my application for my next match to have a shot. I am not here looking for help how to change myself to acclimatize to the US system etc. I am constantly saying I knew what went wrong and I am ready to correct myself. I think I can convince the interviewer about what went wrong in my previous program and I have friends to discuss what to tell and what not to tell. My question was different, the answers I am getting are different.

OK, we get it. But the issue is that in between the "bullying" you're getting good information. Geripalgal summarized it nicely for you.

Listen, I don't know if you're a troll or not, and I don't care. I've been reading posts on SDN for a long time, before I even applied to med school, and it's always the same way. Always. Your post will get some nice replies, some nasty replies, and there will be good info and useless info. You have to decide what to use and what not to use.

If you want to get help in preparing your application for your next match to "have a shot", here's what I suggest:

- Do very well on USMLE 3.

- Be honest about your termination, but put a good spin on it. Something to the effect of how you and IM were a poor fit, but now you realize that XXXX is a better fit because of XXXXX.

- Apply very broadly if you can afford it.

- Apply to smaller programs, programs in undesirable locations, and programs not affiliated with large academic centers (translation: more desperate programs).

- Practice interviews with your friends, or perhaps with your former PD if he/she is willing to do it. Have your former PD ask you tough questions in a mock interview, and critique your performance (BUT...don't sound too scripted in your interview. We can tell when an interviewee has memorized a script).

- Dress very professionally and conservatively if you have an interview. No flashy items or fashion statements. No piercings or weird hairstyle. Cover your tattoos if you have them. Be nice to EVERYONE during the interview day and tours (janitors, nurses, etc.).

Finally, let me advise you not to underestimate PDs. We can easily tell when an applicant is poorly prepared, or just telling us what we want to hear, or is not really interested in the field. Be honest, humble, and contrite during the application process and interviews, but be realistic about your chances and have a Plan B and a Plan C.

Good luck. Most of us do want to see you succeed. Come back and share your success if you match again.
 
I have invested a lot of time, effort and resources on my US journey. I wanted to be successful here. I was never a quitter in my life. I still remember how hard I worked to clear usmles. I feel like I would waste all that if I stay in my country. I am okay to leave once I get the american board but not before that. Moreover, It is a different ball game to start all over again in my home country.
Dude we ALL work hard to get through the steps. You were given the chance to do IM and you threw it away. It seems that your PD and program were patient and helpful. Particularly for a NY program you really were given a reasonable environment. You are not entitled to anything or to be a US doctor. You hit a chance and blew it. You may very likely not get US board certification.
It seems you want the money and prestige that comes with a US medical career but not the work it takes to get there. You are right you do have the IMG mentality. No one here can tell you what will happen. We are not PDs. You have applied to the match and have gotten 1 interview. Do your best there don’t reek of desperation. Know that statistically your odds are very low. IM is likely done and over. You MIgHT get lucky in another specialty but being an IMG, needing a visa, having failed out, and being years away from graduation objectively make your chances of matching low.
Paging aPD for guidance here for this OP. Maybe you need to hear this from so ejne who is an actual PD.
 
Oh, I forgot. Have someone proofread your PS for grammar, spelling, etc. It's very important that your PS is spotless. Although not very many PDs read the PS word by word, those that do will be put off if there are grammatical mistakes or if you sound too "foreign" (and no, I'm not being a racist American. I applied to medical school the year after I obtained my US citizenship - I originally came to the US on an F-1 student visa).

It's your choice if you decide to mention your termination in your PS. You can bring it up in your PS, or you can discuss it during the interview.
 
Boy, the posts are coming fast and furious here.

... but being an IMG, needing a visa, having failed out, and being years away from graduation objectively make your chances of matching low...

Unfortunately this is very true. Many strikes against you, Metrophilia, so be realistic and absolutely KILL IT at your interview. I mean it, you have to be a rock star. It's huge that you actually got an interview invite after being dismissed.

But again, be realistic and have a Plan B in case you don't match.
 
OK, we get it. But the issue is that in between the "bullying" you're getting good information. Geripalgal summarized it nicely for you.

Listen, I don't know if you're a troll or not, and I don't care. I've been reading posts on SDN for a long time, before I even applied to med school, and it's always the same way. Always. Your post will get some nice replies, some nasty replies, and there will be good info and useless info. You have to decide what to use and what not to use.

If you want to get help in preparing your application for your next match to "have a shot", here's what I suggest:

- Do very well on USMLE 3.

- Be honest about your termination, but put a good spin on it. Something to the effect of how you and IM were a poor fit, but now you realize that XXXX is a better fit because of XXXXX.

- Apply very broadly if you can afford it.

- Apply to smaller programs, programs in undesirable locations, and programs not affiliated with large academic centers (translation: more desperate programs).

- Practice interviews with your friends, or perhaps with your former PD if he/she is willing to do it. Have your former PD ask you tough questions in a mock interview, and critique your performance (BUT...don't sound too scripted in your interview. We can tell when an interviewee has memorized a script).

- Dress very professionally and conservatively if you have an interview. No flashy items or fashion statements. No piercings or weird hairstyle. Cover your tattoos if you have them. Be nice to EVERYONE during the interview day and tours (janitors, nurses, etc.).

Finally, let me advise you not to underestimate PDs. We can easily tell when an applicant is poorly prepared, or just telling us what we want to hear, or is not really interested in the field. Be honest, humble, and contrite during the application process and interviews, but be realistic about your chances and have a Plan B and a Plan C.

Good luck. Most of us do want to see you succeed. Come back and share your success if you match again.


Thank you, Doctor. Such a great advice. I really appreciate it. Please don't close the thread. It really helps when 1 in 100 people sees this thread and give an advice like this.
 
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I sure will succeed and is going to share my story here one day, no matter what. Just because one program fired me does not mean I am not good enough. For people out there, who are looking for support, there is a resident in my program, she was fired from anesthesiology residency in the past, she is a chief resident in our program now. People like her I draw inspiration from.
 
I know a couple of people that got terminated from ortho residency. They are now in FM. These people were studs and had to settle for what they could get to salvage their careers. It is very unlikely you will continue your training in the US as a visa needing FMG after being terminated. You can get exceptionally lucky, but it would be highly unlikely in IM. Try FM or path, you might get lucky.

Also, what’s wrong with practicing IM back home? I’m sure they need aspiring IM physicians such as yourself.

Having been in the US for 6 years, I got used to the people here. I like being here no matter what profession I am in. I am ready to compromise the field of choice but I want to have a life in the US. Again it's not about the comforts, mainly profession related.
 
You are not entitled to anything or to be a US doctor.
It seems you want the money and prestige that comes with a US medical career but not the work it takes to get there. You are right you do have the IMG mentality.

Guys, please don't stereotype IMGs. I think if I was not an IMG, the advice would have been different. Even I have noticed this in my work environment too. I get it, we need to adapt to this culture to live in a foreign country. Otherwise, the world would have been a better place, which no one likes it to be. As, we are the ones wanting to be in the US, not the other way around. I am reiterating, we are no different from you, there might be some cultural differences, but please remember 30% of doctors in the US are IMGs and they are surviving somehow right? There could be some bad apples. But most of us want to come to the US, not for the comforts or money the US offers, it is for the professional, well-mannered and humble people here. All you have to do is create some welcoming attitude and try to include them. Maybe that is the reason why people act entitled and protected, otherwise they would be destroyed for no reason. There were several factors which still push me to stay in the US. After working here, it is hard for me to work in my home country. For instance, we don't even have the EMR system yet (again I am being honest here, don't start by saying now he started disliking his home country) and if you see a new patient, you usually don't know anything about his or her medical history. Even for follow up patients, it's all paper charts, which get lost all the time. This is just one of many things.

Although you sound harsh, I understand you just trying to show me the reality. But isn't life all about ups and downs!! I have failed Step 2 CS, people bashed me and said I am not gonna get a single iv with an attempt in CS and tried to talk me into staying in India. But I continued. I ended up with 10 interviews and I matched in my 1st choice. If that was possible, there has to be a way to overcome this too. What if I managed to get into research in a program where they have pathology residency and be sincere and work hard. I can still match right. I want the discussion to be directed towards all the possible ways this red flag could be sorted out. Not a talk about my chances being 1 in 10 million or a power ball jackpot, dude, wake up!!! Are you being serious here? If you are pointing out my mistakes, I have an equal right to talk about what you are commenting. You should have to be careful when talking to a person who is already distraught.
I am again telling all the people out here, firing or being an img does not mean I am no less of a person from any of you here. Please show your humility!!!
 
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What you think you need help in and what you actually need help in may be different. As others have said, you need to really have a strong insight into what happened and how to explain it. You need humility. You need to avoid blaming your program even if they had significant blame. No future PD wants to hear its all the program's fault. Programs are not generally in the business of firing their residents. It actually takes multiple, continued issues to get fired for the most part. You don't seem to express the insight that many people feel is needed for you to be successful in obtaining a future position. People here are trying to help you. You should be open to it.

The reason for me for not disclosing the details of my termination is because I don't want to direct the conversation in that route. I 100% know what went wrong in my program. This was extensively discussed with my program director and my mentor. We all agree on what needs to be done. I can email my PD anytime for feedback and he can guide me. He always replies me instantly and tries the best he can to guide me.
 
You failed CS?

My same thoughts. I am out of advice. Many strikes, I see lack of insight, a good opportunity for OP to do what he wanted in terms of specialty and in the US and a poor outcome. While I think that CS is a piss poor test for US Grads, it is not a bad indicator of social manners, language proficiency, etc for foreign grads.
I’m not sure what else there is to say at this point. OP will do what they will do.
 
My same thoughts. I am out of advice. Many strikes, I see lack of insight, a good opportunity for OP to do what he wanted in terms of specialty and in the US and a poor outcome. While I think that CS is a piss poor test for US Grads, it is not a bad indicator of social manners, language proficiency, etc for foreign grads.
I’m not sure what else there is to say at this point. OP will do what they will do.

What if I say CS is a poor indicator even for IMGs. I said stop stereotyping. If you start, I should too. This attitude of AMGs is what is causing all the problem. You never treat us equally no matter how hard we try. Always try to point our mistakes and find reasons to do something terrible to us. Even in my program, there were few malignant dominant nepotistic uptight and racist AMG seniors, they never used to treat me well and my fate is because of the same reason. My scores speak for my potential. Just because I did not impress some racist prick does not mean I am not good enough. I am done with your advice. Consider me a troll or whatever, I don't mind. I am looking for advice from considerate people who relate with me. I beg you to please stop commenting. I am done with your negativity and your attitude.
 
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What if I say CS is a poor indicator even for IMGs. I said stop stereotyping. If you start, I should too. This attitude of AMGs is what is causing all the problem. You never treat us equally no matter how hard we try. Always try to point our mistakes and find reasons to do something terrible to us. Even in my program, there were few malignant dominant nepotistic uptight and racist AMG seniors, they never used to treat me well and my fate is because of the same reason. My scores speak for my potential. Just because I did not impress some racist prick does not mean I am not good enough. I am done with your advice. Consider me a troll or whatever, I don't mind. I am looking for advice from considerate people who relate with me. I beg you to please stop commenting. I am done with your negativity and your attitude.

Your attitude is a big part of the problem. And FYI I am a minority and first generation immigrant myself. Your problem has nothing to do with racism it has to do with lack of insight. You got opportunities in spite of your many red flags. Your attitude will be your demise. Foreign grads always play the race card when mistakes are pointed out. Like I said you are being like the woman that sealed her fate in medicine when instead of fixing her problems she blamed racism for getting canned.
 
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I don't want to extend the argument. I stand by my point. You see for yourself how many times you negatively commented IMGs. And the so-called supporters, you might be successful in life but you are not as successful as a person. What else should I think, who cares if you are a minority, there is clear intent to demean IMGs in your posts. I don't care if you are a program director whatever. First, learn to respect others for who they are and come here and preach. I don't mind sitting at home and doing nothing if I am not hurting others. When a person is trying hard, try to uplift him if you can rather constantly bashing him.

All negativity here, I am going to forget tomorrow when I wake up!!!
 
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I don't want to extend the argument. I stand by my point. You see for yourself how many times you negatively commented IMGs. And the so-called supporters of this guy, you might be successful in life but you are not as successful as a person. What else should I think, who cares if you are a minority, there is clear intent to demean IMGs in your posts. I don't care if you are a program director whatever. First, learn to respect others for who they are and come here and preach. I don't mind sitting at home and doing nothing if I am not hurting others. When a person is trying hard try to uplift him if you can rather constantly bashing him.

All negativity here, I am going to forget tomorrow when I wake up!!!

No one has bashed you. We have given you advice and have tried being realistic. Go ahead and play the race card, it' ll definitely seal your fate. But you'll do what you want to do.

Good luck.
 
No one has bashed you. We have given you advice and have tried being realistic. Go ahead and play the race card, it' ll definitely seal your fate. But you'll do what you want to do.

Good luck.

I am sorry if I came strong on you. Not meant to hurt you. Please understand what I am going through. Coming from a foreign country with a lot of hope and after sincerely working for 6 years finally ending up in residency just to get fired and returned to home country. It is not easy to take all in. You gave me wonderful advice in your previous posts and I really appreciate it. But please don't separate IMGs, there will be some IMGs - all they need is a little inclusive feeling, some positive reinforcement here and there.
 
Again, please don't make me repeat. I think a few people are just here to discourage me. I am not listening to you. Please go away. I don't know what your motivations are. I am not going to try to explain myself to you.
I suspect that being unteachable was one reason for your downfall. Your wise colleagues are trying to explain reality you.

People come to SDN for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses. The "rah, rah, PollyAnnas" you're looking for aren't going to do you any favors.
 
I suspect that being unteachable was one reason for your downfall. Your wise colleagues are trying to explain reality you.

People come to SDN for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses. The "rah, rah, PollyAnnas" you're looking for aren't going to do you any favors.

Why are there so many personal comments? People don't know me, no? I am surprised how people come after me by few of my posts. I would appreciate if -
NO PERSONAL COMMENTS
NO PREDICTION OF MY CHANCES

If you have a bad day, go bash an intern. He will stay silent. I am not going to be!!
 
I echo what others have said re: trying to help with constructive criticism. FWIW, when you ask for help going forward, it is 99% about what happened in the past which is why people have been talking about that. Not to rub your face in it but because your past attempt at US training is the biggest hurdle you have to overcome in the eyes of any PD. You asked for advice but don’t want to hear it.

For my part, I wouldn’t tell any PD that you’re “ok with leaving the US after getting US board certification.” We have a shortage of primary care (including IM) in this country and if I were a PD I wouldn’t want to waste a US training spot on someone that didn’t care if they worked here after training. As US training is essentially the only path to employment as a US physician, it would be unfair to give that spot away to someone who didn’t want to work here after.

To be clear, I have nothing against training IMGs, just trying to make it clear what you should definitely NOT say to any program where you do manage to earn an interview.

There was a fantastic student in my medical school class who didn’t match in Gen Surg the first time around. He was from Africa and made it clear he wanted to take his training and going back to his home country to help his community. While that is a noble goal from a humanitarian standpoint, it killed him when it came to PDs who are facing a shortage of general surgeons on the US.
 
Why are there so many personal comments? People don't know me, no? I am surprised how people come after me by few of my posts. I would appreciate if -
NO PERSONAL COMMENTS
NO PREDICTION OF MY CHANCES

If you have a bad day, go bash an intern. He will stay silent. I am not going to be!!

It’s not personal that’s what you don’t get. We have no skin in this, we are attendings or residents so your success or lack thereof doesn’t affect us. If you want encouragement and hugs then that’s what your family is there for. If you want advice that’s what the forum is for. If you take feedback as insulting or take it personally it’s likely that you had the same issue in residency. Being able to take feedback was a big thing in my program. Sure it’s hard to come from a foreign nation, match and get fired. But it happened so you should learn from what happened and try to prevent it from happening again.
If you match again and a senior resident tells you something you disagree with - are u going to accuse him or her of racism and not do as you are told?
 
I echo what others have said re: trying to help with constructive criticism. FWIW, when you ask for help going forward, it is 99% about what happened in the past which is why people have been talking about that. Not to rub your face in it but because your past attempt at US training is the biggest hurdle you have to overcome in the eyes of any PD. You asked for advice but don’t want to hear it.

For my part, I wouldn’t tell any PD that you’re “ok with leaving the US after getting US board certification.” We have a shortage of primary care (including IM) in this country and if I were a PD I wouldn’t want to waste a US training spot on someone that didn’t care if they worked here after training. As US training is essentially the only path to employment as a US physician, it would be unfair to give that spot away to someone who didn’t want to work here after.

To be clear, I have nothing against training IMGs, just trying to make it clear what you should definitely NOT say to any program where you do manage to earn an interview.

There was a fantastic student in my medical school class who didn’t match in Gen Surg the first time around. He was from Africa and made it clear he wanted to take his training and going back to his home country to help his community. While that is a noble goal from a humanitarian standpoint, it killed him when it came to PDs who are facing a shortage of general surgeons on the US.


I was answering a question put forth by one of the members. He asked me why not stay and practice in my home country. Personally, I never wanted to leave. In fact, I urged my PD with an intention that if they terminate me in the first year of my long career, US be one short of a doctor, who in his lifespan has a potential to treat 1000s of patients.
 
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It’s not personal that’s what you don’t get. We have no skin in this, we are attendings or residents so your success or lack thereof doesn’t affect us. If you want encouragement and hugs then that’s what your family is there for. If you want advice that’s what the forum is for. If you take feedback as insulting or take it personally it’s likely that you had the same issue in residency. Being able to take feedback was a big thing in my program. Sure it’s hard to come from a foreign nation, match and get fired. But it happened so you should learn from what happened and try to prevent it from happening again.
If you match again and a senior resident tells you something you disagree with - are u going to accuse him or her of racism and not do as you are told?

I see your point. My parents both do not have an idea of my career. And there are no doctors in the family that I could look up to. That is why I came here for an informed advice and some encouragement.
 
I see your point. My parents both do not have an idea of my career. And there are no doctors in the family that I could look up to. That is why I came here for an informed advice and some encouragement.

Be honest with your parents and family. Tell them the truth. Grieve with a counselor. Then get back up on the horse and try to do your best. Be humble, honest and reflect on the things you have been told even if they seem like crap. There is typically some element of truth even in feedback that you might consider crap
 
Be honest with your parents and family. Tell them the truth. Grieve with a counselor. Then get back up on the horse and try to do your best. Be humble, honest and reflect on the things you have been told even if they seem like crap. There is typically some element of truth even in feedback that you might consider crap

There is truth, absolutely no denial in that. Although I seem like acting out for the direct approach of some comments, I am paying attention to every suggestion posted here. Thanks for being patient and putting out with my frustration and be persistent in your help.
 
The thought process that led OP to get terminated in the first place is the same as the one that both led him to consider not disclosing the termination and fail to understand that he won't be getting another IM residency position.

Please don't talk about my termination, it has already happened. We can't change the past. If you happen to have a potion that can take me back to June 2017, please give it to me. Please share your advice in a constructive approach.
 
I was answering a question put forth by one of the members. He asked me why not stay and practice in my home country. Personally, I never wanted to leave. Infact, I urged my PD that if they terminate me in the first year of my long career, US will be one short of a doctor, who in his lifespan treats 1000s of patients.
I hope you didn't actually say that to your PD...
 
You are right you do have the IMG mentality. No one here can tell you what will happen. .

i get it that you have something against IMGs, but being lazy and entitled and wanting to go into something for lifestyle and money is NOT an IMG mentality...if it was then why do so few AMGs go into primary care? why are the areas that are least served have the least number of AMGs and most care is done by IMGs. AMGs more than F/IMGs go for the prestige and lifestyle and money...mostly because they can.

I am an IMG and am not ashamed of it...i worked hard, got the best scores i could get, was the first one in and the last one out as a med student during clinicals...i worked hard as a resident and worked hard as a fellow...did everyone like me...of course not, not not one person would say that i acted entitled or was lazy.

My father was an IMG and was a Urologist for almost 40 years...even in the 60s and the 70s it was hard to get a urology residency and anyone that knows what it was like to be a surgical intern and resident in the late 60s and early 70s knows that the lazy and entitled did not survive.

how would you like it if someone kept on saying that the only way you got to be an AMG was because you are a URM? that URMs don't have to work as hard because they can get in with doing less? same thing...
 
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Wow this is one of the nastier of these threads I can remember in recent history.

The truth is that on a grieving time scale, this is actually pretty recent for the OP.

I want you all to consider what the death of one of your most dearly held life dreams, was like. Your first heartbreak, your first divorce, the untimely death of your father, being unable to bear children, losing a promising sports career to a knee injury. How long did it take to lose the sting? I admittedly don't move on quickly, I'll say for me it's 1-2 years before I've really put those things behind me to any real degree.

I'm trying to fathom what it would be like to be told that not only could I no longer practice medicine, but that I couldn't live in the US, but instead in another country. Don't know where OP is from, but many of us have been abroad, and there's few places elsewhere I would want to be. It says something that OP would even embark on being a stranger in a strange land, and be heartbroken over it.

What I see is that a lot of people either don't understand what this sort of loss of identity is like (all my above examples, or "dream deaths" embody this) or just don't factor it into how they speak to someone over the internet.

Imagine OP was one of those moms that did co-sleeping and rolled over and killed their infant in the night. Now they are discussing being a parent again. Even if you think they shouldn't be because they messed up, how do you talk to another human still processing this type of grief? Yes they need to understand where they went wrong. Frankly we didn't need to hash things the way we did in this thread.

In my mind, there's "clinic speak" and "work room speak." (Clinic: "I'm highly concerned about your high blood pressure and risk of stroke. Part of addressing that is your sleep apnea. Your weight is putting you at extreme risk of harm. I see that you mentioned drinking 2 liters of Pepsi daily. One good way of cutting calories...." Workroom speak: "JFC. This guy is going to stroke out as he dies choking under his own fat rolls, all because he can't give up vitamin P. Get a clue!"

On SDN we do a lot of the latter, and it's acerbic, brutal, and blunt. We understand with patients there's bedside manner, that we do more good delivering a given message with some sensitivity.


The truth is, outside character issues, it may not be unreasonable for someone to feel getting only one chance at residency is ridiculously unfair, whether we all feel that way or not.

More than anything, I see OP is highly invested, grieving, and responding very emotionally to many responses that at best are insensitive, at worst accusatory and cruel.

We're getting insight into someone's inner emotional life. The OP is showing some evidence of ability for introspection and understanding of the issues that were both under their control, and not. But we're also seeing a lot of emotional responses, right or wrong. Entitlement, feelings that it wasn't fair, externally locating control, blaming others, etc.

We're running into all sorts of knee jerk ego defenses, and understandably the instinct we have is to crush those ego defenses. Especially in medicine.

Believe me when I tell you that despite all evidence to the contrary, all the ego defenses and lack of insight, the terminated resident's ego is just about as crushed as it possibly can be, in every way. Hence the ego defenses.

I saw early on, that someone told the OP they were dangerous. All interns are dangerous, some more than others, certainly there's an unacceptable degree and then termination over it.

At the same time, I seriously doubt there was any benefit to that comment whatsoever. OP already knows this somewhere inside, they've already been told this in many ways before now, in all the little failures that led them to this day on SDN. They either know this already, so this is just another extremely blunt way to express in extreme terms the depth of OP's failures in this regard as a physician. If you give a damn, there is nothing more painful for a physician to process than that.

Perhaps there is a layer of denial you sensed that you wanted to strip away. Don't. It's there for a reason at this stage. If the OP truly doesn't understand that on any level, it doesn't matter because they're not in a position to be dangerous to patients - they've been removed.

I'm going through in my mind all the purposes and utilities one might argue for that statement. Just, it's not useful for the terminated resident, and it won't be useful in their interview, or in their restart to a residency. They will either have learned that that are dangerous and need to address it at this point, or never and it won't matter anyway. Hearing it from an anonymous internet stranger is unlikely to do any good anywhere. The person that cares and has insight doesn't need to hear it, but it can feel like a gut punch that stays with you, coming to you for days, at random moments, like sitting down to eat your lunch and losing your appetite. What a way to ruin someone's day. The person with no insight won't care beyond being upset you said so. So all you did was hurt someone as you said something that didn't need said or would fall on deaf ears. Congrats, you saved patient lives and a medical career today.

Something like this takes a very long time to process and eventually be able to see from an outside perspective, and take responsibility for.

Terminated residents, because of timeline, come to SDN in the absolute worst place they could be. Literally at the lowest they may have ever been in their entire lives, not ready to fully comprehend what happened, grieve, take full responsibility, introspect, improve. And the stakes are high, they are desperate personally, emotionally, financially, they aren't eating or sleeping. They are crushed, their self esteem gone with nothing to cushion it besides curling up in the fetal position with the thought "but it isn't fair" their only metaphorical pillow of comfort to the thought of what a failure they feel like.

Yet, time is if the essence and they must rebuild now or probably never. Where can they turn to? Who can help them not only salvage a dream of a lifetime, but avoid ruin and deportation?

So they come here, naked in shame, their ego and all sense of worth stripped, desperate.

Does OP need to be disabused of the notion that they will match IM? Sure. There are plenty of notions they need to shift gears on, despite the fact that in terms of grief processing this event, they're not in the best place to impartially evaluate anything.

I don't expect terminated residents to come off as well on SDN as they likely will be able to manage in their app, PS, and interview. It's true that we need to push OP and others to introspection and taking responsibility.

OP needs to be disabused of a lot of things to succeed, yes. That is different than abuse.

One argument is that OP will need to stand up to all of this to succeed. If they need kid gloves, they don't belong not only on SDN, but not in front of a PD either.

Eh, no.

Unless the thread is shut down, later I'll try to address this thread in more detail.

Tldr
Please approach terminated residents like someone who co-slept with their infant and accidentally rolled over in the night and killed it, and wants to start over as a parent. Whether you agree or not, understand that you are dealing with someone likely at a height of irrationality and pain, and adjust accordingly.
 
I sure will succeed and is going to share my story here one day, no matter what. Just because one program fired me does not mean I am not good enough. For people out there, who are looking for support, there is a resident in my program, she was fired from anesthesiology residency in the past, she is a chief resident in our program now. People like her I draw inspiration from.
change in specialty example.
 
What if I say CS is a poor indicator even for IMGs. I said stop stereotyping. If you start, I should too. This attitude of AMGs is what is causing all the problem. You never treat us equally no matter how hard we try. Always try to point our mistakes and find reasons to do something terrible to us. Even in my program, there were few malignant dominant nepotistic uptight and racist AMG seniors, they never used to treat me well and my fate is because of the same reason. My scores speak for my potential. Just because I did not impress some racist prick does not mean I am not good enough. I am done with your advice. Consider me a troll or whatever, I don't mind. I am looking for advice from considerate people who relate with me. I beg you to please stop commenting. I am done with your negativity and your attitude.

not an AMG, and not only am i an IMG...i went to a Caribbean school...you at least, i presume when to a domiciled school in India...those who know anything about the educational system in India knows that to get into a domiciled school in india is no small feat...and i agree with burned-out...you are not taking any responsibility or ownership...sure you give lip service to it, but in the end, you fall back on the concept that you were in the wrong program or the pace was too fast, or whatever else...but ultimately you really don't seem to think you were the problem....there will ALWAYS be racist (i trained in the deep south, trust me you ain't got anything for racist that can compare) people, there will always be a$$holes and douche bags...there will be misogynists that think the role of a female is not being a doctor but home with the kids....you deal with it.

and the fact that you just want to hear the nice things, the supportive things, show that you STILL you have your head in the sand..
 
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Wow this is one of the nastier of these threads I can remember in recent history.

The truth is that on a grieving time scale, this is actually pretty recent for the OP.

I want you all to consider what the death of one of your most dearly held life dreams, was like. Your first heartbreak, your first divorce, the untimely death of your father, being unable to bear children, losing a promising sports career to a knee injury. How long did it take to lose the sting? I admittedly don't move on quickly, I'll say for me it's 1-2 years before I've really put those things behind me to any real degree.

I'm trying to fathom what it would be like to be told that not only could I no longer practice medicine, but that I couldn't live in the US, but instead in another country. Don't know where OP is from, but many of us have been abroad, and there's few places elsewhere I would want to be. It says something that OP would even embark on being a stranger in a strange land, and be heartbroken over it.

What I see is that a lot of people either don't understand what this sort of loss of identity is like (all my above examples, or "dream deaths" embody this) or just don't factor it into how they speak to someone over the internet.

Imagine OP was one of those moms that did co-sleeping and rolled over and killed their infant in the night. Now they are discussing being a parent again. Even if you think they shouldn't be because they messed up, how do you talk to another human still processing this type of grief? Yes they need to understand where they went wrong. Frankly we didn't need to hash things the way we did in this thread.

In my mind, there's "clinic speak" and "work room speak." (Clinic: "I'm highly concerned about your high blood pressure and risk of stroke. Part of addressing that is your sleep apnea. Your weight is putting you at extreme risk of harm. I see that you mentioned drinking 2 liters of Pepsi daily. One good way of cutting calories...." Workroom speak: "JFC. This guy is going to stroke out as he dies choking under his own fat rolls, all because he can't give up vitamin P. Get a clue!"

On SDN we do a lot of the latter, and it's acerbic, brutal, and blunt. We understand with patients there's bedside manner, that we do more good delivering a given message with some sensitivity.


The truth is, outside character issues, it may not be unreasonable for someone to feel getting only one chance at residency is ridiculously unfair, whether we all feel that way or not.

More than anything, I see OP is highly invested, grieving, and responding very emotionally to many responses that at best are insensitive, at worst accusatory and cruel.

We're getting insight into someone's inner emotional life. The OP is showing some evidence of ability for introspection and understanding of the issues that were both under their control, and not. But we're also seeing a lot of emotional responses, right or wrong. Entitlement, feelings that it wasn't fair, externally locating control, blaming others, etc.

We're running into all sorts of knee jerk ego defenses, and understandably the instinct we have is to crush those ego defenses. Especially in medicine.

Believe me when I tell you that despite all evidence to the contrary, all the ego defenses and lack of insight, the terminated resident's ego is just about as crushed as it possibly can be, in every way. Hence the ego defenses.

I saw early on, that someone told the OP they were dangerous. All interns are dangerous, some more than others, certainly there's an unacceptable degree and then termination over it.

At the same time, I seriously doubt there was any benefit to that comment whatsoever. OP already knows this somewhere inside, they've already been told this in many ways before now, in all the little failures that led them to this day on SDN. They either know this already, so this is just another extremely blunt way to express in extreme terms the depth of OP's failures in this regard as a physician. If you give a damn, there is nothing more painful for a physician to process than that.

Perhaps there is a layer of denial you sensed that you wanted to strip away. Don't. It's there for a reason at this stage. If the OP truly doesn't understand that on any level, it doesn't matter because they're not in a position to be dangerous to patients - they've been removed.

I'm going through in my mind all the purposes and utilities one might argue for that statement. Just, it's not useful for the terminated resident, and it won't be useful in their interview, or in their restart to a residency. They will either have learned that that are dangerous and need to address it at this point, or never and it won't matter anyway. Hearing it from an anonymous internet stranger is unlikely to do any good anywhere. The person that cares and has insight doesn't need to hear it, but it can feel like a gut punch that stays with you, coming to you for days, at random moments, like sitting down to eat your lunch and losing your appetite. What a way to ruin someone's day. The person with no insight won't care beyond being upset you said so. So all you did was hurt someone as you said something that didn't need said or would fall on deaf ears. Congrats, you saved patient lives and a medical career today.

Something like this takes a very long time to process and eventually be able to see from an outside perspective, and take responsibility for.

Terminated residents, because of timeline, come to SDN in the absolute worst place they could be. Literally at the lowest they may have ever been in their entire lives, not ready to fully comprehend what happened, grieve, take full responsibility, introspect, improve. And the stakes are high, they are desperate personally, emotionally, financially, they aren't eating or sleeping. They are crushed, their self esteem gone with nothing to cushion it besides curling up in the fetal position with the thought "but it isn't fair" their only metaphorical pillow of comfort to the thought of what a failure they feel like.

Yet, time is if the essence and they must rebuild now or probably never. Where can they turn to? Who can help them not only salvage a dream of a lifetime, but avoid ruin and deportation?

So they come here, naked in shame, their ego and all sense of worth stripped, desperate.

Does OP need to be disabused of the notion that they will match IM? Sure. There are plenty of notions they need to shift gears on, despite the fact that in terms of grief processing this event, they're not in the best place to impartially evaluate anything.

I don't expect terminated residents to come off as well on SDN as they likely will be able to manage in their app, PS, and interview. It's true that we need to push OP and others to introspection and taking responsibility.

OP needs to be disabused of a lot of things to succeed, yes. That is different than abuse.

One argument is that OP will need to stand up to all of this to succeed. If they need kid gloves, they don't belong not only on SDN, but not in front of a PD either.

Eh, no.

Unless the thread is shut down, later I'll try to address this thread in more detail.

Tldr
Please approach terminated residents like someone who co-slept with their infant and accidentally rolled over in the night and killed it, and wants to start over as a parent. Whether you agree or not, understand that you are dealing with someone likely at a height of irrationality and pain, and adjust accordingly.

Your post is brutally long to read. I skimmed parts of it but the OP is from India, was given an opportunity despite numerous red flags, unfortunately got terminated after a period of probation, a very supportive PD, and is now back in India it seems working. No one is owed a life in the US - there is no entitlement fairy. OP got a great chance to have the "american dream" and it did not work out. I'm sure we all have our stories - I have lived abroad, I have experienced a ton of abuse in residency for countless reasons, to the point that ACGME got involved, attending got canned, PD stepped down, had horrible medical and surgical issues resulting from the negligence of one program, saw my career goals dismantled, got harassed by co-fellows, had some of the worst schedule of the entire program, got harassed for being quiet, had a horribly hostile work environment at times, etc etc. I cried plenty, cursed more than I'd like to admit, thoguht of quitting countless times, but had enough sense to as one fellow resident colleague tell me, work in a way where nothing could be questioned, and that's what I did. I was the only one of my kind in my entire program, it was isolating, but i worked my butt off - and i learned to shine despite all the garbage. No one owed me anything. I didn't match to my first choice of program despite having a ton of qualifications. I cried and cursed, but no one owed me anything. So as awful as it is for the OP to get fired, the OP can still work in his native country. It seems he has parents that supported him financially which is a blessing. Again he is not owed the American dream. It is not a birth right entitlement. He got a great chance and unfortunately it did not work out. He can try again. Hopefully it will work out for him. There are plenty of other people who don't match, etc. I recently read about one AMG - with no visa or cultural issues - who failed one of the steps and applied countless times to FM. Put her husband and kid in their beaten up car, drove to interviews, etc. She wasn't owed anything. None of us are. We try our best and that's it.
 
i get it that you have something against IMGs, but being lazy and entitled and wanting to go into something for lifestyle and money is NOT an IMG mentality...if it was then why do so few AMGs go into primary care? why are the areas that are least served have the least number of AMGs and most care is done by IMGs. AMGs more than F/IMGs go for the prestige and lifestyle and money...mostly because they can.

I am an IMG and am not ashamed of it...i worked hard, got the best scores i could get, was the first one in and the last one out as a med student during clinicals...i worked hard as a resident and worked hard as a fellow...did everyone like me...of course not, not not one person would say that i acted entitled or was lazy.

My father was an IMG and was a Urologist for almost 40 years...even in the 60s and the 70s it was hard to get a urology residency and anyone that knows what it was like to be a surgical intern and resident in the late 60s and early 70s knows that the lazy and entitled did not survive.

Good for you.
 
Wow this is one of the nastier of these threads I can remember in recent history.

The truth is that on a grieving time scale, this is actually pretty recent for the OP.

I want you all to consider what the death of one of your most dearly held life dreams, was like. Your first heartbreak, your first divorce, the untimely death of your father, being unable to bear children, losing a promising sports career to a knee injury. How long did it take to lose the sting? I admittedly don't move on quickly, I'll say for me it's 1-2 years before I've really put those things behind me to any real degree.

I'm trying to fathom what it would be like to be told that not only could I no longer practice medicine, but that I couldn't live in the US, but instead in another country. Don't know where OP is from, but many of us have been abroad, and there's few places elsewhere I would want to be. It says something that OP would even embark on being a stranger in a strange land, and be heartbroken over it.

What I see is that a lot of people either don't understand what this sort of loss of identity is like (all my above examples, or "dream deaths" embody this) or just don't factor it into how they speak to someone over the internet.

Imagine OP was one of those moms that did co-sleeping and rolled over and killed their infant in the night. Now they are discussing being a parent again. Even if you think they shouldn't be because they messed up, how do you talk to another human still processing this type of grief? Yes they need to understand where they went wrong. Frankly we didn't need to hash things the way we did in this thread.

In my mind, there's "clinic speak" and "work room speak." (Clinic: "I'm highly concerned about your high blood pressure and risk of stroke. Part of addressing that is your sleep apnea. Your weight is putting you at extreme risk of harm. I see that you mentioned drinking 2 liters of Pepsi daily. One good way of cutting calories...." Workroom speak: "JFC. This guy is going to stroke out as he dies choking under his own fat rolls, all because he can't give up vitamin P. Get a clue!"

On SDN we do a lot of the latter, and it's acerbic, brutal, and blunt. We understand with patients there's bedside manner, that we do more good delivering a given message with some sensitivity.


The truth is, outside character issues, it may not be unreasonable for someone to feel getting only one chance at residency is ridiculously unfair, whether we all feel that way or not.

More than anything, I see OP is highly invested, grieving, and responding very emotionally to many responses that at best are insensitive, at worst accusatory and cruel.

We're getting insight into someone's inner emotional life. The OP is showing some evidence of ability for introspection and understanding of the issues that were both under their control, and not. But we're also seeing a lot of emotional responses, right or wrong. Entitlement, feelings that it wasn't fair, externally locating control, blaming others, etc.

We're running into all sorts of knee jerk ego defenses, and understandably the instinct we have is to crush those ego defenses. Especially in medicine.

Believe me when I tell you that despite all evidence to the contrary, all the ego defenses and lack of insight, the terminated resident's ego is just about as crushed as it possibly can be, in every way. Hence the ego defenses.

I saw early on, that someone told the OP they were dangerous. All interns are dangerous, some more than others, certainly there's an unacceptable degree and then termination over it.

At the same time, I seriously doubt there was any benefit to that comment whatsoever. OP already knows this somewhere inside, they've already been told this in many ways before now, in all the little failures that led them to this day on SDN. They either know this already, so this is just another extremely blunt way to express in extreme terms the depth of OP's failures in this regard as a physician. If you give a damn, there is nothing more painful for a physician to process than that.

Perhaps there is a layer of denial you sensed that you wanted to strip away. Don't. It's there for a reason at this stage. If the OP truly doesn't understand that on any level, it doesn't matter because they're not in a position to be dangerous to patients - they've been removed.

I'm going through in my mind all the purposes and utilities one might argue for that statement. Just, it's not useful for the terminated resident, and it won't be useful in their interview, or in their restart to a residency. They will either have learned that that are dangerous and need to address it at this point, or never and it won't matter anyway. Hearing it from an anonymous internet stranger is unlikely to do any good anywhere. The person that cares and has insight doesn't need to hear it, but it can feel like a gut punch that stays with you, coming to you for days, at random moments, like sitting down to eat your lunch and losing your appetite. What a way to ruin someone's day. The person with no insight won't care beyond being upset you said so. So all you did was hurt someone as you said something that didn't need said or would fall on deaf ears. Congrats, you saved patient lives and a medical career today.

Something like this takes a very long time to process and eventually be able to see from an outside perspective, and take responsibility for.

Terminated residents, because of timeline, come to SDN in the absolute worst place they could be. Literally at the lowest they may have ever been in their entire lives, not ready to fully comprehend what happened, grieve, take full responsibility, introspect, improve. And the stakes are high, they are desperate personally, emotionally, financially, they aren't eating or sleeping. They are crushed, their self esteem gone with nothing to cushion it besides curling up in the fetal position with the thought "but it isn't fair" their only metaphorical pillow of comfort to the thought of what a failure they feel like.

Yet, time is if the essence and they must rebuild now or probably never. Where can they turn to? Who can help them not only salvage a dream of a lifetime, but avoid ruin and deportation?

So they come here, naked in shame, their ego and all sense of worth stripped, desperate.

Does OP need to be disabused of the notion that they will match IM? Sure. There are plenty of notions they need to shift gears on, despite the fact that in terms of grief processing this event, they're not in the best place to impartially evaluate anything.

I don't expect terminated residents to come off as well on SDN as they likely will be able to manage in their app, PS, and interview. It's true that we need to push OP and others to introspection and taking responsibility.

OP needs to be disabused of a lot of things to succeed, yes. That is different than abuse.

One argument is that OP will need to stand up to all of this to succeed. If they need kid gloves, they don't belong not only on SDN, but not in front of a PD either.

Eh, no.

Unless the thread is shut down, later I'll try to address this thread in more detail.

Tldr
Please approach terminated residents like someone who co-slept with their infant and accidentally rolled over in the night and killed it, and wants to start over as a parent. Whether you agree or not, understand that you are dealing with someone likely at a height of irrationality and pain, and adjust accordingly.
lol...now that is the typical crayola post i'm use to...welcome back! 🙂
 
OP,

I think you have about a 98.9% chance of getting back into an IM residency. We have a massive doctor shortage in America. They will recognize you desire to treat 1000s of Americans patients for a modest $400,000 per year salary and realize that this is a very good bargain. With your excellent step scores you should probably apply to something like derm or maybe integrated IR if you aren’t that brave. You are selling yourself shorty with IM. Your perseverance and overcoming the unjust step 2CS exam will make your application stronger than if you just took the easy way out and passed it the first time by simply memorizing lines.

I know exactly 48 people who failed out of IM intern year. 47 of them got back in to actually a better program. The other one was an angel investor in Facebook and decided to just do FM instead to make his parents happy.

I hope I have not told you anything you don’t want to hear, because I’m not sure I could deal with that.

Sincerely
Atomi
 
OP,

I think you have about a 98.9% chance of getting back into an IM residency. We have a massive doctor shortage in America. They will recognize you desire to treat 1000s of Americans patients for a modest $400,000 per year salary and realize that this is a very good bargain. With your excellent step scores you should probably apply to something like derm or maybe integrated IR if you aren’t that brave. You are selling yourself shorty with IM. Your perseverance and overcoming the unjust step 2CS exam will make your application stronger than if you just took the easy way out and passed it the first time by simply memorizing lines.

I know exactly 48 people who failed out of IM intern year. 47 of them got back in to actually a better program. The other one was an angel investor in Facebook and decided to just do FM instead to make his parents happy.

I hope I have not told you anything you don’t want to hear, because I’m not sure I could deal with that.

Sincerely
Atomi
Well, to more accurate, we have a doctor maldistribution, especially in rural or poor urban areas.

So, OP, are you willing to accept being an FM or Peds in, say Jonesboro, AR or Kalispell, MT?
 
Your post is brutally long to read. I skimmed parts of it but the OP is from India, was given an opportunity despite numerous red flags, unfortunately got terminated after a period of probation, a very supportive PD, and is now back in India it seems working. No one is owed a life in the US - there is no entitlement fairy. OP got a great chance to have the "american dream" and it did not work out. I'm sure we all have our stories - I have lived abroad, I have experienced a ton of abuse in residency for countless reasons, to the point that ACGME got involved, attending got canned, PD stepped down, had horrible medical and surgical issues resulting from the negligence of one program, saw my career goals dismantled, got harassed by co-fellows, had some of the worst schedule of the entire program, got harassed for being quiet, had a horribly hostile work environment at times, etc etc. I cried plenty, cursed more than I'd like to admit, thoguht of quitting countless times, but had enough sense to as one fellow resident colleague tell me, work in a way where nothing could be questioned, and that's what I did. I was the only one of my kind in my entire program, it was isolating, but i worked my butt off - and i learned to shine despite all the garbage. No one owed me anything. I didn't match to my first choice of program despite having a ton of qualifications. I cried and cursed, but no one owed me anything. So as awful as it is for the OP to get fired, the OP can still work in his native country. It seems he has parents that supported him financially which is a blessing. Again he is not owed the American dream. It is not a birth right entitlement. He got a great chance and unfortunately it did not work out. He can try again. Hopefully it will work out for him. There are plenty of other people who don't match, etc. I recently read about one AMG - with no visa or cultural issues - who failed one of the steps and applied countless times to FM. Put her husband and kid in their beaten up car, drove to interviews, etc. She wasn't owed anything. None of us are. We try our best and that's it.
I completely agree with all of this. However I do think you were entitled to not having most of what happened to you happen to you. I don't see entitlement as meaning what actually takes place, just that it should. You were entitled to a better workplace.

Some people might think OP is entitled to a touch more kindness just owing to the timing of their circumstance and the fact we're on the outside on the internet. It's not like we can't afford to do so. But only one opinion.
 
I see now, on further reflection, that there were a few responses that just shut me down.

OP did come in with a certain... I wanna call it the "naivete of the terminated resident" that hasn't maximized their recovery and introspection yet. Most responses were helpful if brusque. A few were outright cruel. OP has taken some of it to heart. I just always wish a few things that didn't need to be said, weren't said, that's all.
 
I completely agree with all of this. However I do think you were entitled to not having most of what happened to you happen to you. I don't see entitlement as meaning what actually takes place, just that it should. You were entitled to a better workplace.

Some people might think OP is entitled to a touch more kindness just owing to the timing of their circumstance and the fact we're on the outside on the internet. It's not like we can't afford to do so. But only one opinion.

Yes, I should not have been treated like crap because I'm quiet, or small, or the only one of my ethnic/cultural kind, and I shouldn't have ot have surgery because the program I went to screwed me and literally caused me physical harm. I'm sure I could have sued the program and claimed hostile work environment, racism, bullying and all sorts of nasty things - especially given that the abusive attending got fired in a very public way, the PD stepped down, and a massive shake up of the program occurred. But it happened. I was objective about it. I took the appropriate action in general. I didn't make excuses. The sitautions I encountered were beyond crappy, and should have been better but my point is that MANY of us go through awful awful experiences. Few people have superb residency experiences - a lucky few might have good experiences. While many of my circumstances were unfair and painful, I learned to learn from many of the situations experienced, even the crap ones that were total garbage, and I learned to take those miserable circumstances and do what *I* could to make my situation better. For example, I was told I was too "quiet" - so I made it incredibly obvious about all the things that I had done for patients, for the team, for discharges, for treatments, for procedures, or whatever else. I no longer allowed other residents to take credit for what I had done - I made it obvious to the point that people stopped abusing and taking advantage of me simply because I don't have a larger than life body or personality, and I shined, because I went above and beyond and it became so painfully obvious of everything that I was doing on a regular basis. I went from "quiet" and having people take credit to super resident - not because I was doing anything differnet but I made it painfully obvious. Sometimes I would even be like oh I did this and this and that attending X. Even for something like a pain fellowship the attending I rotated with told me how great I was procedurally and gave me a great eval for the rotation but he would not write me a LOR given my gender given that women are not spacially oriented 🙁 to the point that i withdrew from the initial pain match. 🙁

But I digress. The OP could have said well they think these are my issues, I will work on those issues so that no one can ever question me again.
 
I


I have already discussed extensively with my program director and my mentor, both said the program is not a right fit for my goals. They both think I would do well in a smaller program or another specialty like FM or pathology. Why is everybody so excited to know what happened in my previous program after I repeatedly said I am not looking for help in that regard. I knew what went wrong and I will work on it. If you know what I am supposed to do now, please share your thoughts.

You wanted advice. What we have said on this thread is what other PDs are going to be thinking looking at your application. You need to be able to express exactly what went wrong and how you will fix it. And saying “I need to take care of fewer patients” is not an appropriate answer. As I said, I couldn’t care less what you did to get yourself terminated. But if you blame others or the system, you will not succeed in getting another position.

Look at yourself people - if you behave the same way with patients - they are not gonna like you - if a HIV patient comes to you - do you repeatedly say that he/she did a mistake or try to treat him. I think you get my point. I thought this forum would be a right platform to seek help. Rather all I get is repeated bullying.

I saw an obese patient today. She is prediabetic. She lost weight briefly for 6 months when she was in an intensive nutrition program. In the past 2 years, she has come to see us every 6ish months. We have recommended Metformin and dietary changes. We discuss the risks of not making changes. We referred to nutrition again. She goes home and makes zero changes. Today, we discussed that while we are happy to help her, if she doesn’t take the steps to help herself, our advice is useless. So we didn’t arrange for follow-up...if she’s motivated to make changes and wants our input again, she can self refer back to us, but otherwise, she can be followed be her PCP.

In this analogy, you are the obese patient, except we are 6 months into treatment and we are offering you tough love on your diagnosis and trying to get you to accept the reality of your situation. You can go home and start taking Metformin and make dietary changes, though it’s tough and you have to change everything you’ve done so far.... or you can continue to hope to get into an IM residency.

Pro tip: don’t accuse people of being bad doctors based on how they act on an anonymous specialized forum.

Why are there so many personal comments? People don't know me, no? I am surprised how people come after me by few of my posts. I would appreciate if -
NO PERSONAL COMMENTS
NO PREDICTION OF MY CHANCES

If you have a bad day, go bash an intern. He will stay silent. I am not going to be!!

By nature, you are asking a personal question. If you didn’t want personalized responses, you shouldn’t have posted. And if we didn’t offer you predictions of your chances, we wouldn’t be helping.
 
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