Terminated from residency - need advice!

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My condolences, OP. I'm sure you realized immediately what a bad mistake you made. The stress/grieving you and your spouse are going through right now must be absolutely terrible.
 
keifernny2 said:
I just read something in my local news that fits this story to a T.

I don't want to post the link for fear of worsening this former resident's life any more, but with publicity involved, I think OP may not be able to make it in clinical medicine.

If OP were an attending, then I think he could probably just have changed jobs & relocated to get the spotlight off of him, but getting another program to take a chance on him might be a lot harder (unless they are desperate to fill the position). If he can talk his PD into giving a good reference that will probably make a big difference.

Otherwise, it may be worth it to look at a career change.
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I would agree with this assessment...
 
Yeah, the article isn't that hard to find. It does fit very well; the only reason I have my doubts is because the offense is so egregious that he would have to know his medical career is over, and he wouldn't come here asking for advice about finding another residency. The way that article was written, the resident will be fortunate to avoid prison time. Everyone is going to wonder how stable he is mentally and if he could do something again that would create a bigger news story and a serious lawsuit.

If it's not him, I hope the OP comes back to clear it up.
 
cookymonster said:
Yeah, the article isn't that hard to find. It does fit very well; the only reason I have my doubts is because the offense is so egregious that he would have to know his medical career is over, and he wouldn't come here asking for advice about finding another residency. The way that article was written, the resident will be fortunate to avoid prison time. Everyone is going to wonder how stable he is mentally and if he could do something again that would create a bigger news story and a serious lawsuit.

If it's not him, I hope the OP comes back to clear it up.
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Yeah, maybe your google fu is better than mine, but there's nothing on simple searches that fits the timeline.
 
Raryn said:
Yeah, maybe your google fu is better than mine, but there's nothing on simple searches that fits the timeline.
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The closest thing I could find that relates can be found by Google-ing 'syracuse camera doctor'. I don't want to post the link and may edit this post if OP requests or the article I'm inferring is wrong. If the article is the OP, I see the mistake and feel that you should fight it.
 
OutRun said:
The closest thing I could find that relates can be found by Google-ing 'syracuse camera doctor'. I don't want to post the link and may edit this post if OP requests or the article I'm inferring is wrong. If the article is the OP, I see the mistake and feel that you should fight it.
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I found that one as well, with this being the best link describing the story, but it didn't seem to gel with the timeline. Perhaps the OP posted several weeks/a month after the incident though.
 
cookymonster said:
Yeah, the article isn't that hard to find. It does fit very well; the only reason I have my doubts is because the offense is so egregious that he would have to know his medical career is over, and he wouldn't come here asking for advice about finding another residency. The way that article was written, the resident will be fortunate to avoid prison time. Everyone is going to wonder how stable he is mentally and if he could do something again that would create a bigger news story and a serious lawsuit.

If it's not him, I hope the OP comes back to clear it up.
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If this is the OP, then he probably WOULD come here asking for advice. The resident in the article haD an elaborate plan involving ordering devices to ensure he could set up his "surveillance". That means he had plenty of opportunity to see that it was a bad idea and back down. The fact that the resident did not suggests a serious issue with judgement on that residents part and an issue with priorities.

I expect my iPad to get stolen all the time if I leave it certain places in the hospital. If it got stolen I would have to cut my losses and move on. Would I be pissed? Yes. But I would not set up illegal surveillance, and certainly not a bathroom. I feel bad for that resident and if it is OP I feel bad for him too, but some mistakes are just a really big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
His wife, or a woman with his last name is also an intern at SUNY Upstate.

I'm just trying to understand the logic of setting up a camera in the bathroom to catch an Adderall thief. What is the likelihood that the thief is even going to dose himself in that bathroom? And even if you catch someone taking pills, how are you supposed to tell if it's Adderall or Zyrtec? And you're going to sift through hours of video every day to try to capture this? On an ICU rotation?

Assuming that was the reason for setting up the camera (and it doesn't really pass the smell test), I don't think poor judgment is the only problem here.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
I think it's him. Hard to imagine multiple DOs in ACGME EM residencies got fired in th past couple weeks in such dramatic fashion.
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SUNY took him off their list of residents pretty quickly. I'm pretty sure the resident from my program that was asked not to come back after a leave of absence is still on our website. Granted, as far as I know, she didn't have any criminal charges pending against her. I wonder if they did it before or after the media got ahold of the story.
 
just read the story....the syracuse guy is done. No way a residency director touches that situation. They are either a creep or so incapable of evaluating their own behavior that they could never be trusted.....if anything happened at the new program, the PD would never be able to look a judge or a reporter in the face and say, "I had no way of knowing"
 
sb247 said:
just read the story....the syracuse guy is done. No way a residency director touches that situation. They are either a creep or so incapable of evaluating their own behavior that they could never be trusted.....if anything happened at the new program, the PD would never be able to look a judge or a reporter in the face and say, "I had no way of knowing"
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Sounds like he is probably a perv. Who plants cameras in the bathroom to try to catch a thief-that doesn't even make sense if it didnt display incredibly bad judgement. Sounds like that ER doc that masturbated into a patient's face and claimed the semen got there because he masturbated right before the exam and didnt wash his hands before examining her....

I feel way worse for the resident who got fired because someone used his login to access a celebrity health record. That sounds plausible (we probably all forget to log off once in a while).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
deltamed said:
Sounds like that ER doc that masturbated into a patient's face and claimed the semen got there because he masturbated right before the exam and didnt wash his hands before examining her....
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Wait..... what now!? Oh I think I found the story... Whats up with these NY docs?
 
Well, we all wondered what sort of behavior would get you fired that fast. Whether or not he is the OP, this guy's behavior is an excellent example of what should get you fired. His alibi is so bizarre that, if its true, he committed a felony.

Sure looks like him. DO intern at ACGME EM program who was rapidly fired. He posted that his wife is an MD. The female intern with the same last name is an MD.

Some of his colleagues posting in his defense on the post dispatch's website need to get off the internet. It wasn't a "mistake", it was unlawful surveillance in a bathroom. His lawyer is going to have a stroke when he sees that his client was posting here (and I bet this thread will disappear).
 
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gracie369 said:
OP your post is just ridiculous. I included all the BS parts.

You got a suspension letter one day and the next day a termination letter? No!
It's out of GME and PD's hands but all of the sudden the dean from the medical school drops a termination on you? Ha no! Not his/her jurisdiction! Problems are never out of GME and PD's hands. That's just funny.

Good one.
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You are just totally wrong about this. Things can escalate beyond GME/PD easily.
 
Gastrapathy said:
Well, we all wondered what sort of behavior would get you fired that fast. Whether or not he is the OP, this guy's behavior is an excellent example of what should get you fired. His alibi is so bizarre that, if its true, he committed a felony.
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It's really hard to get fired from a residency...unless you do something like this.

Again, whether or not the OP is this dude (I'm inclined to believe that he is, but that's irrelevant to the discussion), this kind of behavior is one of the few things that will get you fired from residency (or, frankly any job, physician or otherwise) without further evaluation.

So for future med students/residents searching SDN, "I set up secret cameras in the ICU/ward/ED bathroom/call room/work room and I got caught, what are my options" is a total career ending move. Use this as a baseline/cautionary tale. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
 
smq123 said:
Agreed.

In a similar vein, that Miami neuro resident who attacked an Uber driver is going to be terminated as well: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/downtown-miami/article73411022.html

So, yes....it can and does happen. Granted, it takes a LOT to make it happen but still...not impossible.
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she might be able to appeal this i would think...after all no charges were filed against her and it was an episode outside of the hospital and she wasn't on duty...sounds like she should have to undergo anger management or some sort of remediation...even if they ding her for being unprofessional, it seems that it could be a probation issue...but even if she finished being able to be employed somewhere would be difficult.
 
Of course she can appeal it, but do residents ever win their appeals? I imagine it would be pretty difficult to win, especially since I think most employment contracts include some sort of vague catch-all at the end that allows an employer to terminate an employee for very subjective reasons. Terms like "unprofessional behavior" etc.
 
sb247 said:
just read the story....the syracuse guy is done. No way a residency director touches that situation. They are either a creep or so incapable of evaluating their own behavior that they could never be trusted.....if anything happened at the new program, the PD would never be able to look a judge or a reporter in the face and say, "I had no way of knowing"
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Agree. It may have just been a case of poor judgment, but that's the absolute best case scenario, and there's no way to spin that resident's actions as even slightly appropriate....which he obviously knew himself, since he originally lied about it when questioned by police.

OP, if this is you, in the future, if someone steals your stuff, you should file a police report instead of taking matters into your own hands....and in general, don't bring valuables to work and leave them unlocked.
 
smq123 said:
Agreed.

In a similar vein, that Miami neuro resident who attacked an Uber driver is going to be terminated as well: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/downtown-miami/article73411022.html

So, yes....it can and does happen. Granted, it takes a LOT to make it happen but still...not impossible.
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On top of the lack of judgement and responsibility, you can clearly see the self-entitlement. In fact I'd say the latter is at the forefront. If this is a medical student, it would require a very serious personal and professional development interview with the ethics board/dean; as a fourth-year resident however, I'd say suspension is warranted. In both cases, appropriate contrition and commitment to psychological intervention should be expected. Maturity is always paramount through the medical pathway, but as a fourth-year doctor that's just disappointing and inexcusable.
 
Phloston said:
On top of the lack of judgement and responsibility, you can clearly see the self-entitlement. In fact I'd say the latter is at the forefront. If this is a medical student, it would require a very serious personal and professional development interview with the ethics board/dean; as a fourth-year resident however, I'd say suspension is warranted. In both cases, appropriate contrition and commitment to psychological intervention should be expected. Maturity is always paramount through the medical pathway, but as a fourth-year doctor that's just disappointing and inexcusable.
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strangely enough....being drunk off her head actually helps the doc in the uber case, America eventually forgives drunks. The camera doc is done.
 
QofQuimica said:
Agree. It may have just been a case of poor judgment, but that's the absolute best case scenario, and there's no way to spin that resident's actions as even slightly appropriate....which he obviously knew himself, since he originally lied about it when questioned by police.

OP, if this is you, in the future, if someone steals your stuff, you should file a police report instead of taking matters into your own hands....and in general, don't bring valuables to work and leave them unlocked.
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Lol
 
rokshana said:
she might be able to appeal this i would think...after all no charges were filed against her and it was an episode outside of the hospital and she wasn't on duty...sounds like she should have to undergo anger management or some sort of remediation...even if they ding her for being unprofessional, it seems that it could be a probation issue...but even if she finished being able to be employed somewhere would be difficult.
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One can appeal anything just about, doesn't mean she'll win.
It's cool though she can probably have a reality TV career if she played her cards right. Looks just like a Kardashian.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
One can appeal anything just about, doesn't mean she'll win.
It's cool though she can probably have a reality TV career if she played her cards right. Looks just like a Kardashian.
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I could definitely see that. For whatever reason, reality tv is here to stay and the more the train wreck, the higher the ratings. Now all she needs is to leak a sex tape.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
I think it's him. Hard to imagine multiple DOs in ACGME EM residencies got fired in th past couple weeks in such dramatic fashion.
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Hadn't realized the article was about an EM resident. I'll concur with you that it's likely the OP.

I cannot imagine reasoning for the spy-cam business, except perhaps the perpetrator (and not the people he was trying to catch) was the one misusing stimulants. Regardless, criminal charges have been filed, and he's screwed.
 
Gastrapathy said:
You are just totally wrong about this. Things can escalate beyond GME/PD easily.
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No. Not totally wrong. It depends on the circumstances. The resident confessed to police that he was responsible for the camera. The PD/GME has access to this information immediately and has the power to terminate the contract immediately. If you think this offense just automatically bypasses the PD/GME then tis you that is totally wrong.

However, on the other hand if the PD for some odd reason wants to give the resident another shot then the PD could easily be overruled by the hospital board. It would Then be out of the PDs hands. If you read the first post it sounds like the PD does like the resident. It also sounds like the PD is wanting the issue to be addressed by a committee which often occurs with big decisions.

Of course a high school student could tell you that the PD cannot prevent either the hospital or police department from pressing criminal charges.

Think about all of the residents posting on here about getting fired by PDs for seemingly nebulous reasons. What this resident confessed to could easily get him terminated by the PD effective immediately. It's definitely not beyond the PD/GME. In the end it's all conjecture. We don't really know the individual hospital policy or the details of the situation.
 
keifernny2 said:
There is always the option, that OP could work as an assistant or office manager in her office. He could, with his background, be quite useful in that type of role Having a private practice with an intelligent spouse that is able to manage your business can increase productivity and profit dramatically, even if he wasn't doing the clinical decision making.

I know a number of physicians that have the spouse as an office manager and it seems to work quite well (as long as you get along).
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having an MD work at the front desk of anything medical sounds like a bad idea

the reason is that there will still be patient contact and you will always be more "sue-able"
 
if it's a private practice, which the smaller ones I've seen are one provider, an office manager, and a nurse or MA, then the office manager also does scheduling and front desk duties and any number of tasks
 
Well a one-provider office is going to have lots of people wearing multiple hats. So you're technically correct, but those tiny practices are far outnumbered by larger practices and employed groups these days. That would be the type of setting to discuss him aiming for. But, I doubt someone with this history is hireable by a medical practice, front desk or no, so it's all a moo point.
 
keifernny2 said:
There is always the option, that OP could work as an assistant or office manager in her office. He could, with his background, be quite useful in that type of role Having a private practice with an intelligent spouse that is able to manage your business can increase productivity and profit dramatically, even if he wasn't doing the clinical decision making.

I know a number of physicians that have the spouse as an office manager and it seems to work quite well (as long as you get along).
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I'm assuming this was typed prior to the actual story being "guessed".....I wouldn't so much as have my spouse darken the door of my practice in this situation. I might forgive them. I might not leave them. I would 100% put some distance between them and my professional life.
 
ok, just got up to speed on the neuro resident video firing

lol... America forgives drunks. Yes it does. In fact, I already forgive this girl.

Looks like she started it, and sure, none of what she does is OK, but I would like to point out, how the heck did the guy end up outside the car and restraining her hands? sure she's drunk and belligerent, but that's exactly why that presumably sober dude shouldn't be laying hands on her
she walks off and he follows her!

granted, just because somebody "starts" with you, doesn't mean you should "finish" it, a lesson both the Uber driver and the resident clearly didn't have in mind
granted she's drunk, caught on tape, and had more to lose than he did, but seeing that dude grabbing her hands and shoving her just sat wrong with me

EDIT: did she put the dent in his car? if so whoa
still, I still don't know that you can then use that to justify physically restraining someone... my friend is a prosecutor, and he said the smart thing is to just leave to a safe location, you can't use vandalism or destruction of property as an excuse
 
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I understand all the practical reasons the program terminated this resident, liability, image, etc, and granted she probably can be licensed with an intern year under her belt, I still think overall not finding a way for her to finish her program is a disservice to a society that needs more neurologists ATM
it's also a waste of the medicare dollars that were going towards training said neurologist

I'm not saying that the societal utility of our occupation means we should "get away" with things either
 
Crayola227 said:
ok, just got up to speed on the neuro resident video firing

lol... America forgives drunks. Yes it does. In fact, I already forgive this girl.

Looks like she started it, and sure, none of what she does is OK, but I would like to point out, how the heck did the guy end up outside the car and restraining her hands? sure she's drunk and belligerent, but that's exactly why that presumably sober dude shouldn't be laying hands on her
she walks off and he follows her!

granted, just because somebody "starts" with you, doesn't mean you should "finish" it, a lesson both the Uber driver and the resident clearly didn't have in mind
granted she's drunk, caught on tape, and had more to lose than he did, but seeing that dude grabbing her hands and shoving her just sat wrong with me

EDIT: did she put the dent in his car? if so whoa
still, I still don't know that you can then use that to justify physically restraining someone... my friend is a prosecutor, and he said the smart thing is to just leave to a safe location, you can't use vandalism or destruction of property as an excuse
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he was trying to restrain her from further attacking him and damaging his property. she wasn't trying to flee. I'm completely supportive of his right to act how he did
 
sb247 said:
he was trying to restrain her from further attacking him and damaging his property. she wasn't trying to flee. I'm completely supportive of his right to act how he did
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I kind of agree with you. The dude was quite rational and reasonable, and he did not shove her until she groined him. I think the issue is that she damaged his property and he did not want to take her anywhere at that point so he was waiting for the police. Just imagine if he would have taken her someone and she accused him of attacking her, etc? I think given her condition he probably wanted to avoid that.
I think it's sad for her to have thrown all that away, but there definitely is a sense of entitlement and I'm better than you type attitude which is graspable. If a doctor has that type of attitude the smart thing to do is to at least not show it, at least not in public. Particularly given that she's a foreign grad, she should have been more careful. As a foreign grad, there's not way to recover from that.
I think for a US MD there is some redemption - I have seen a number of residents in rather hot water recover from things as US MDs who were otherwise good and were victims of poor judgment, but I don't think that she has a saving grace really. As a foreign MD, with an attitude problem, a video of assault that has been viewed I think 3 million times, I doubt that another residency program would touch her. She was close to finishing - I don't think I have ever seen a4th year Neuro opening, and if someone were to touch her with a 10 foot pole, she'd likely have to re-do a portion of her training if not change specialties altogether.
Licensing would also be an issue for her - the whole thing with professionalism is big in our profession and that's one of the "mandates" I guess for having a license. Many governing bodies may have an issue with that, especially if she has to explain how/why she was dismissed in her 4th year. And I think there are enough people in the match with perfectly decent stats and no records, especially foreign grads, that few if any program would take a chance on her.
I'm sure many of us have done stupid things but how many of us have attacked Uber drivers or anyone for that matter while drunk? I know I certainly haven't and no one that I know has. That is just outright beyond stupid. And while she was drunk, she was not that drunk to know what was going on.
It's not like she cursed out the guy and got into a screaming match with him - she destroyed his property, threw out his stuff, hit him in the face I believe and groined him. Assault is a big no no in our profession.
Honestly she also does not seem too sorry.
I think honestly a lesson for all of us - unfortunately we are always under the spotlight.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Sounds like a story someone posted on SDN awhile ago, don't think it came from you. Sounds negligent, probably warrants a firing but I doubt that quickly. Depends on how deep in doo-doo he was prior to this incident.
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I was the one who posted it. It was definitely from my program - I heard the story straight from the mouth of one of our chiefs.
 
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Wordead said:
I spend most of my day trying to figure out how to send patients off to other services or back to wherever the hell they came from.
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Yes, but not rendering any care whatsoever for hours to a critically ill patient is pure negligence by anyone's definition.
 
Unfortunately, I agree with the others: regardless of the OP's intent/story, this is apparently being prosecuted as a criminal act and as such, likely means the end of his clinical medicine career.

There are other options which he can consider but getting back into residency at this time (without the legal issues resolved) is not, and should not be, his priority.
 
Raryn said:
Hadn't realized the article was about an EM resident. I'll concur with you that it's likely the OP.

I cannot imagine reasoning for the spy-cam business, except perhaps the perpetrator (and not the people he was trying to catch) was the one misusing stimulants. Regardless, criminal charges have been filed, and he's screwed.
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Agreed with all this. What was this guy doing with a Gopro at work in the first place? And when I saw that Adderall was involved, I immediately wondered if this was being used illicitly...perhaps this was the guy's first ICU rotation, he's getting his ass kicked, he ends up buying some Adderall to stay awake and subsequently he does some awfully stupid stuff while 'under the influence'...

That said, as a DO I immediately sighed when I saw this idiot was a DO as well...we really don't need negative publicity like this. This guy probably blew up any chance other DOs had to match at his program in the future.
 
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