Texas GS programs

[suguha]

Just from what I have heard from other students and by doing rotations at some of these places myself:

1) Baylor Dallas - great community program with excellent operative experience. Strong reputation and good fellowship placement hx.
2) Scott & White - also a great community program with excellent operative experience. May provide the most autonomy from what I have heard. Still lack name recognition when applying for fellowship.
3) Texas Tech El Paso - good community program with good clinical experience. Friendly staff. Horrible location.
4) UTSW Dallas - big name, big reputation, heavy trauma, and very malignant. Though at the end they do turn out competent and strong surgeons; albeit bitter as hell.
5) Methodist Dallas - good community program. Limited name recognition. Friendly people. PD that is a resident advocate.
6) Baylor Houston - see comments for UTSW dallas.
7) UT Houston - malignant, malignant, malignant. Did I say malignant??? If you listen hard enough you can hear the cries among the walls.
8) Methodist Houston - used to be St. Joseph. Lots of internal problems. Leadership is horrible from top to bottom. PD is very strange and seems uncomfortable in social settings.
9) UTMB Galveston - lack of case load. Great names in the program at the top. Funding issues and lack of clinical experience are starting the march to Austin for many of the programs.
10) UTMB Austin - potentially a great community program. Heavy trauma and clinical volume. Brand new program. Heard they are not yet approved but listed in the match????? I guess a buyer beware situation.
11) Texas Tech Lubbock - on probation. Quite a bit of internal problems. See Methodist Houston comments, though not as bad. PD is trying to improve this struggling program.

This list in not in any particular order. Please feel free to add more comments or info you have about any of the above programs. I'm applying to some of these and want to get some info together for those applying to Texas programs as I am.

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[suguha]

Forgot about UTSA - 7 yr program. Malignant. Enough said.

 

[saswimr]

I disagree that UTSW is malignant. The residents are all fantastic and I only saw one attending that was kinda harsh.

 

[reglan]

I do not know who Suguha is, but I strongly agree with saswimr.

UTSW is an excellent general surgery program. It is located within a wonderful academic institution. Your fellow residents will be smart, fun/friendly, and well rounded. The training will be intense, and you will leave a competent and confident surgeon.

Please take descriptions such as Suguha's with a grain (or spoonful) of salt. One line cannot capture a program. I am sure that no one found this analysis very useful. For instance:

"Baylor Houston - see comments for UTSW dallas"

Go interview. Be inquisitive. Seek a wide array of sources. Make your choice.

 

[TxMed]

does anybody have more info about the utmb austin program? are all 5 years in austin? needless to say, this could be a wonderful thing.

tm

 

[tooshorttoolong]

Baylor malignant? I beg to differ.

 

[SLUser11]

Baylor malignant? I beg to differ.

I've noticed alot of these statements recently from different posters. e.g. "General Surgery? 220? Shouldn't be hard." or "malignant? I don't think so." I think it would be helpful if you added 1-2 sentences containing your reasoning.

Very often a program will seem malignant to some and WNL to others. This is because your concept of malignancy is based on where you go to med school, as that is the only medical experience for most med students.

I specifically remember talking to a Baylor med student on the trail last year, and when asked if her program was malignant, she said. "Malignant? Absolutely not! I mean, we work long hours (she quoted 100-120), and some of the attendings yell/occasionally throw things, but I got to scrub in on the FIRST cardiopulmonary transplant in North America!" To her, those things are normal, and worth it to be a part of "big" surgeries....while to others, that's what malignant means.

 

[Raidergate]

med student

Eh, that wouldn't be the first person I'd talk to to get a feel for a program.

Med students always over-dramatize everything. 😉

 

[suguha]

I do not know who Suguha is, but I strongly agree with saswimr.

UTSW is an excellent general surgery program. It is located within a wonderful academic institution. Your fellow residents will be smart, fun/friendly, and well rounded. The training will be intense, and you will leave a competent and confident surgeon.

Please take descriptions such as Suguha's with a grain (or spoonful) of salt. One line cannot capture a program. I am sure that no one found this analysis very useful. For instance:

"Baylor Houston - see comments for UTSW dallas"

Go interview. Be inquisitive. Seek a wide array of sources. Make your choice.

I did rotations at both Baylor - Houston and UTSW. If you think the environment at those places is non-malignant, then that's great for you. I never debated whether or not they produce quality surgeons, I merely gave my opinion that I don't like the culture they foster. For example, chief residents don't talk to interns and medical students, verbal abuse is shrugged off as helpful advice, fatigue is seen as an inherent human weakness, and pimping until you no longer know your head from your a$$ is a common teaching practice. Hell, if you can thrive and succeed in this environment that's great. I sure as hell wouldn't. I prefer positive reenforcement! It tends to keep those crazy thoughts 😡 from entering my head.

 

[Red Man]

I can't speak for Baylor in Houston, but UT-SW is far from malignant. The program director wants everyone under 80 hours, the residents are friendly, and most of the attendings are so as well. Of course there may be a few who are not, but no program is free of those types of people.

I think you may have gotten a raw deal, suguha, in terms of your attending and team of residents.

 

[saswimr]

SUGUHA - I am sorry you had such a bad experience. It seems we had absolute opposite experiences. I did a month of vascular surgery at UTSW and it was probably my favorite rotation of med school. I worked with top-notch attendings who besides their reputation (including the program director), they were extremely personable. They were hard on the fellow, but that is as far as it went. I got pimped on fair, easy questions any 4th year interested in surgery should know. I also found the residents wonderful. I on many occasions hung out with them socially, and was amazed at how laid back they were. This is a big difference from where I am in school in NC.
I think there are many things that shape what you consider malignant. Where you go to school, your department there, etc.
I want a residency that pushes me, not one that verbally punishes me, but one that wants the best out of me. One of the UTSW attendings told me when I asked him why he was sometimes hard on the fellow, his reply was that a little embarressment is a potent motivator to work hard and prepares them for when the s*#t hits the fan. I tend to agree with him. But we are all entitled to our opinions, as are you SUGUHA, I was just giving my side to your comments. Good luck with your endeavors!

 

[reglan]

Once again I feel compelled to disagree with Suguha and to defend UTSW. I take particular issue with his indictment of the culture of general surgery at UTSW. During my time here, I have become friends with residents at all levels of the general surgery residency from intern to chief. I have also found the fellows and attendings to be quite amiable. Friendship with residents often has a great deal to do with your likeability and their personality. I will vouch for a wealth of friendly and fun personalities in the UTSW general surgery program. Pimping at UTSW is variable from person to person - just remember, pimping is teaching. Information combined with embarrassment imprints your memory and acts as a motivator to read/learn more. I have never witnessed verbal abuse at UTSW. There are going to be bad apples at every program - UTSW is no exception.

As I said previously, UTSW is a fun but intense place. You should be aware of this if you consider coming here. And luckily for you, Suguha, you discovered that this is not the best place for you.

 

[garybusey]

Well, although not the main focus of this thread, I thought I'd add some color to the program in Lubbock. Sure, it may be currently on probation, but there are some immense postives to this place. The chair is undoubtedly one of the nicest guys around, is a true advocate for the residents, and is a great teaching asset. There is enough trauma to keep you busy here, and if you want exposure to burns, you will get more than plenty here. The attendings may be a little overworked, but new additions, i.e. Transplant surgeon, new vascular surgeon, will help. There are some shortcomings here - hepatobiliary exposure may be weak, not a big onc referral center. But focus on the positives - this place has some great teaching attendings. The breast attending is super, CT attending (residency director) also good, the vascular attending excellent.

 

[SLUser11]

Well, although not the main focus of this thread, I thought I'd add some color to the program in Lubbock. Sure, it may be currently on probation, but there are some immense postives to this place. The chair is undoubtedly one of the nicest guys around, is a true advocate for the residents, and is a great teaching asset. There is enough trauma to keep you busy here, and if you want exposure to burns, you will get more than plenty here. The attendings may be a little overworked, but new additions, i.e. Transplant surgeon, new vascular surgeon, will help. There are some shortcomings here - hepatobiliary exposure may be weak, not a big onc referral center. But focus on the positives - this place has some great teaching attendings. The breast attending is super, CT attending (residency director) also good, the vascular attending excellent.

I just wanted to say.....I thought you were excellent in "Under Siege."

 

[asu03]

Does anyone know why Texas Tech is on probation?
I saw that they were being reviewed again on 10/25. When will the new decision by the ACGME be made/posted?
Thanks!

 

[md8047]

In regards to UTSW...

Their reputation for being "malignant" comes from two areas. First, they do tend to fire a fair number of residents. They fired 4 two years ago. Last year they held back a couple of senior residents who probably didn't deserve it and overall morale has taken a hit. This has helped foster a reputation for being malignant, and I suppose it's hard to disagree with that. Second, the program director (who does a good job overall) is universally not trusted by the residents. He isn't the sort of PD to go to with problems and doesn't socially interact well with the residents. The word "weasel" comes to mind. They get excellent training but they do have to toe the party line.

I agree with others that the overall atmosphere is very good. This is primarily due to the residents. They get along very well together. Most teams often go out together post-call and everybody is extremely helpful towards each other. The staff are very friendly, with only one or two truly malignant personalities. I have never witnessed verbal abuse in the OR,throwing of instruments, or any other act which would be deemed hostile. Their overall training is excellent and they get a tremendous amount of autonomy. They are striving to do 80 hours and for the most part they are able to do this.

Again, this is a great program and the residents make it that way. Keep your head low, work hard, read as much as possible, don't upset the program director, and you'll do fine here.

 

[drunkduck9]

Just to add one more opinion into the mix, specifically about UTSW:

-Its not a feel-good kind of place - very old-fashioned. Resident-attending relationships are not what they are at many other programs. The weekly Trauma conference is an extreme example, but I haven't seen it vastly different elsewhere. Some peope might think this is a minor point, but I've asked a few med students here and they all point to this as a negative.
-Again, because of the program's size, some less-than-stellar residents can slip through the cracks. I'm not saying this happens often, but it does.
-Its great that there is no requirement to do research, but if you want to, there is nothing you could not do with your time here. This is a big plus for ambitious people.
-Many residents are not happy; I cannot be convinced otherwise on this point. During my rotation, I had two residents tell me they regretted going into surgery and advised me to go into radiology. A friend of mine had two different residents on separate occasions tell him not to come here. What does that say about the program?
-Residents break 80hrs. often. I've heard this is getting better, but med students witness it during their rotations and word gets around...
-I don't think I would advise anyone wanting to do their 5 years of GS and leave to do private practice GS to come here. This place is a fellowship factory; I think only 1 resident in the last graduating class went straight out into practice.
-Parkland Hosp just keeps getting busier and busier, to the point where I believe they can no longer rely soley on resident labor to operate. The medicine department has acknowledged this and recently hired some hospitalists to take overflow, but I don't know if surgery will in the next decade or two. There is so much work to do, I just don't know how educational much of it is; it certainly limits the time residents have to read. One told me that chiefs tend to do well on oral boards due to their vast work experience, but don't do as well on written boards due to lack of time to read (I don't know if this is true or not, just relaying what I was told).

Despite this, I like UTSW; I think the training is very good, but there are much nicer places to go for GS training. This would be a serious option to consider for people who are really motivated, ambitious, or certain about pursuing academics or competitive and tough fellowships. I just think there's no reason to beat around the bush when it comes to some of the things that make this program a very, very tough 5 years, cause the last thing someone wants is to come here and be unhappy.

 

[firecracker]

Is there really a general surgery program in Austin? I just looked on Freida and didn't see it listed. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[FliteSurgn]

Is there really a general surgery program in Austin? I just looked on Freida and didn't see it listed. Anyone know anything about this?

http://www.seton.net/medical_services_and_programs/graduate_medical_education/surgery