thank you notes

[oxcloxdiclox]

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So are these notes a handwritten note on a normal piece of paper, or are we talking about going to Hallmark and buying proper thank you cards? Is a well written email sufficient?

If its the Hallmark route, am I the only one who things this is kind of over the top (yes, even though I know it appears to be standard practice). And then, sending each individual who participated in the interview a separate card? (Does this include interns on the panel?)

I've worked for 2 fortune 500 companies prior to going to medical school, and have hired/worked with HR on many occasions and I can say that this certainly doesn't happen often in industries where I have worked. Emails, sure, but not cards or handwritten notes. What's the next step -- chocolates? flowers?

Having said this, I will probably fall to peer pressure and do the same just because I don't want to be THAT person who didn't do it. Damn you people!

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are many, many threads about this. One from last year that was quite juicy is here.

My personal opinion is that TY cards are a gigantic waste. Then again, I have been told I have the emotional IQ of a rock. My program admin loves getting them.

Summary of the above thread is: you send TY cards if you think it is the appropriate, polite thing to do when asked to interview. They are unlikley to change your rank position, whether you send them or not.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Then again, I have been told I have the emotional IQ of a rock.

No wonder you make such a good PD! 😉

 

[outnumbered]

I, too, hate thank you notes. They seem phony to me -- I'd much rather offer a sincere thanks in person. That being said, it does seem to be the norm at many interviews, so I've decided to send them. I have one interview that was nearly 4 weeks ago -- is it too late to send a thank you note? I really liked this program & would love to go there, but I'm afraid I may have ticked them off.

Thanks.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I, too, hate thank you notes. They seem phony to me -- I'd much rather offer a sincere thanks in person. That being said, it does seem to be the norm at many interviews, so I've decided to send them. I have one interview that was nearly 4 weeks ago -- is it too late to send a thank you note? I really liked this program & would love to go there, but I'm afraid I may have ticked them off.

Thanks.

But you see the point of thank you notes is not to get a spot in that program but because its the polite thing to do.

Academia, and physicians in particular, are not known to be part of the genteel society therefore:

1)I highly doubt that they have taken note that you have not sent a note
2) I highly doubt that sending one (or not) makes any difference at all in your ranking

Send one because you really want to, because its the polite thing to do, but don't just because you think they will see you more kindly and be likely to rank you higher. It doesn't work that way.

 

[iamcatwoman]

hear hear.

I've been/will be sending cards to all the programs I visit as there has clearly been a huge amount of time and effort put into organizing all the interviews (interviews in the UK were always super rushed and stingy, and NEVER involved food). And I've recieved letters back from the program directors, which was nice.

 

[Hard24Get]

yeah, I wasn't going to do them, but then I felt guilty about it because I was just raised that it is etiquette. Besides, a lot of the people I meet on the trail are so fun and make the interviews so relaxed and the admin has everything so organized that I just wanna polish it off with a card. It cost like 5 bucks for a 20 pack of thank you cards from Hallmark.

Now here's a question: I have seen a few programs I really like and I kinda feel like writing a "it's not you, it's me" letter to the top programs I don't end up at after the match. You know, for closure (even though my field is EM ). Is that cheesy or has anyone done or seen that?

 

[Top Gun]

yeah, I wasn't going to do them, but then I felt guilty about it because I was just raised that it is etiquette. Besides, a lot of the people I meet on the trail are so fun and make the interviews so relaxed and the admin has everything so organized that I just wanna polish it off with a card. It cost like 5 bucks for a 20 pack of thank you cards from Hallmark.

Now here's a question: I have seen a few programs I really like and I kinda feel like writing a "it's not you, it's me" letter to the top programs I don't end up at after the match. You know, for closure (even though my field is EM ). Is that cheesy or has anyone done or seen that?

So let me get this straight. Is your question, "If you match into one EM program, you should send an 'it's not you, it's me' letter to the programs you didn't match into?" If so, I don't think its really necessary. Everyone knows that once you match into a particular program, you are bound by the NRMP rules to go there. Once you match, that's it. You don't need to explain yourself to other programs.

 

[usmletutor]

Please also don't forget your Letter of Rec writers!

Please always send them a thank you card wishing them happy holidays and happy new year, but more importantly - updating them on your interview trail progress. I know that a majority of them truly enjoy writing letters and love to know how everything is turning out for you.

 

[Winged Scapula]

yeah, I wasn't going to do them, but then I felt guilty about it because I was just raised that it is etiquette. Besides, a lot of the people I meet on the trail are so fun and make the interviews so relaxed and the admin has everything so organized that I just wanna polish it off with a card. It cost like 5 bucks for a 20 pack of thank you cards from Hallmark.

Now here's a question: I have seen a few programs I really like and I kinda feel like writing a "it's not you, it's me" letter to the top programs I don't end up at after the match. You know, for closure (even though my field is EM ). Is that cheesy or has anyone done or seen that?

Although unusual, I've seen it done before.

Its unnecessary because programs know you can only rank one program at #1. But if you were really impressed with a place but ranked them lower for whatever reason and matched elsewhere, it probably wouldn't hurt except in the case of people who don't understand such etiquette (as noted above) and thinking it a bit unusual. In every field, especially if you might consider fellowship training or moving to the area, its a good idea not to burn bridges and maybe even build a few.

But really, its not necessary and the great unwashed in medicine will probably think it strange rather than grateful.

 

[Bitsy3221]

Please, please, please--just send a simple thank you. Be it a handwritten note, card email or typed letter, but send something.

Don't do it b/c you think it will help you match, just do it because it is the mature, polite, professional and appropriate thing to do.

I don't understand why such a commonplace practice (not to mention a mature and polite practice) to almost every other professional arena is such a hot-button topic in residency interviews. I suppose it is b/c we get to fixated on "improving our chances," but this is still an interview, and when someone takes time off to meet and greet you, the gracious thing is to thank them for this.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Please, please, please--just send a simple thank you. Be it a handwritten note, card email or typed letter, but send something.

Don't do it b/c you think it will help you match, just do it because it is the mature, polite, professional and appropriate thing to do.

I don't understand why such a commonplace practice (not to mention a mature and polite practice) to almost every other professional arena is such a hot-button topic in residency interviews. I suppose it is b/c we get to fixated on "improving our chances," but this is still an interview, and when someone takes time off to meet and greet you, the gracious thing is to thank them for this.

Because:

a) physicians are not known for their social graces
b) medical students are not known for their social graces
c) physicians AND medical students ARE known for doing whatever it takes to get ahead and ignoring the rules of polite society.

Maybe its ego, maybe its because their mothers didn't raise them right, but there's an awful lot of dysfunction in medicine that I never saw in other workplaces.

 

[UndeadHeart]

What if a residency program interviews hundreds of candidates for each year? This translates into *hundreds* of thank you notes for the PD or more likely somebody else to open I guess!

 

[Bitsy3221]

Because:

a) physicians are not known for their social graces
b) medical students are not known for their social graces
c) physicians AND medical students ARE known for doing whatever it takes to get ahead and ignoring the rules of polite society.

Maybe its ego, maybe its because their mothers didn't raise them right, but there's an awful lot of dysfunction in medicine that I never saw in other workplaces.

I guess that was more of a hypothetical question on my end 🙄.....I am WELL aware of the points you mention. It is just a pet peeve on my end that so-called professionals are willing to forgo mature, appropriate and professional behaviour simply b/c the letter may not be savored by the PD or get them to #1 on a rank list. I still believe people should do things just b/c it is the right thing to do, not just b/c it will get them ahead.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I guess that was more of a hypothetical question on my end 🙄.....I am WELL aware of the points you mention. It is just a pet peeve on my end that so-called professionals are willing to forgo mature, appropriate and professional behaviour simply b/c the letter may not be savored by the PD or get them to #1 on a rank list. I still believe people should do things just b/c it is the right thing to do, not just b/c it will get them ahead.

Sorry, I knew you knew...was just venting myself and clarifying it for the obtuse who might read this and will still continue to ask (this year and for the rest of our years here) why send thank you notes if they won't rank you higher.

 

[Hard24Get]

Because:

a) physicians are not known for their social graces
b) medical students are not known for their social graces
c) physicians AND medical students ARE known for doing whatever it takes to get ahead and ignoring the rules of polite society.

Maybe its ego, maybe its because their mothers didn't raise them right, but there's an awful lot of dysfunction in medicine that I never saw in other workplaces.

👍

 

[Hard24Get]

What if a residency program interviews hundreds of candidates for each year? This translates into *hundreds* of thank you notes for the PD or more likely somebody else to open I guess!

If a residency interviews hundreds of candidates each year, they have the following each year:

- many days to put together, including meals
- hundreds of interviewees to organize
- multiple times more interviewers to organize
- multiple times more residents to organize
- hundreds of files to review, rank, and fight over
- and much, much more, including stuff we don't even think about


And you think hundreds of expressions of appreciation for all this effort would be an inconvenience? If it is, they will say so.

 

[Hard24Get]

Although unusual, I've seen it done before.

Its unnecessary because programs know you can only rank one program at #1. But if you were really impressed with a place but ranked them lower for whatever reason and matched elsewhere, it probably wouldn't hurt except in the case of people who don't understand such etiquette (as noted above) and thinking it a bit unusual. In every field, especially if you might consider fellowship training or moving to the area, its a good idea not to burn bridges and maybe even build a few.

But really, its not necessary and the great unwashed in medicine will probably think it strange rather than grateful.

Yes, it's not about necessity, it just seems like the right thing to do. I thanked them for their time during interview day, but I want them to know (even after there is nothing to gain from it) that I was not blowing smoke up their a$$ and their program and their people really impressed me. Jeez.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, it's not about necessity, it just seems like the right thing to do. I thanked them for their time during interview day, but I want them to know (even after there is nothing to gain from it) that I was not blowing smoke up their a$$ and their program and their people really impressed me. Jeez.

Completely understandable and I would do the same thing.

You asked if it would be cheesy...I don't think so, but as I noted above, SDN is merely evidence that most people would think it was weird or brown-nosing. I can only assume the rest of the medical world is somewhat similar to SDN's population.

 

[koma]

Please, please, please--just send a simple thank you. Be it a handwritten note, card email or typed letter, but send something.

Don't do it b/c you think it will help you match, just do it because it is the mature, polite, professional and appropriate thing to do.

I don't understand why such a commonplace practice (not to mention a mature and polite practice) to almost every other professional arena is such a hot-button topic in residency interviews. I suppose it is b/c we get to fixated on "improving our chances," but this is still an interview, and when someone takes time off to meet and greet you, the gracious thing is to thank them for this.

I don't think it's the 'right' thing to do. I do think it's necessary and right to thank the interviewers and the program director and the interview day organizer - very warmly and sincerely while you are at the interview for all their work. But I don't think it's necessary to send a letter repeating the thank you in writing. There's nothing moral or right about it. Perhaps it's the accepted method of behavior, perhaps it's 'proper' (like giving a tip every time regardless of service), but that doesn't make it right. I do it anyways, 'just in case' it matters. But given that most people have a thank you letter form template that they slightly vary from letter to letter, there's very little sincerity involved.

 

[sikegeek]

I don't think it's the 'right' thing to do. I do think it's necessary and right to thank the interviewers and the program director and the interview day organizer - very warmly and sincerely while you are at the interview for all their work. But I don't think it's necessary to send a letter repeating the thank you in writing. There's nothing moral or right about it. Perhaps it's the accepted method of behavior, perhaps it's 'proper' (like giving a tip every time regardless of service), but that doesn't make it right. I do it anyways, 'just in case' it matters. But given that most people have a thank you letter form template that they slightly vary from letter to letter, there's very little sincerity involved.

Personally, I'm very sincere about the thank-you notes that I write. I am very grateful for the opportunity I was given and the time they spent with me. I don't write from a template either.

 

[Shalom77]

Even if someone writes from a template or is otherwise repititious, doesn't mean they can't be sincere.

I was stressing about individualizing each thank you to the extent that they weren't getting done. Then I got a handwritten thank you note from a program director! I was pretty embarrassed that the program (my favorite) thanked me before I thanked them.

I realized keep it short and simple. If you are talented custom thank you note writer - great. Otherwise when writing 14 thank you notes in a row while not having slept - a little repitition is fine. I was still being sincere on thank you note #14 just not as indivualized.

 

[jascher]

I volunteer to experiment by not sending thank you cards. I'll let you know if I don't match.

 

[Dr Serenity]

I volunteer to experiment by not sending thank you cards. I'll let you know if I don't match.

I'll volunteer to be the one who takes two months to get his thank you notes to certain programs because I got waaaay behind in getting them done.

 

[Doowai]

Maybe its ego, maybe its because their mothers didn't raise them right, but there's an awful lot of dysfunction in medicine that I never saw in other workplaces.

That is such an interesting comment. I am being serious, not facetious. That is such a poignant comment.

 

[mikegoal]

Since I hate writing I have enlisted the services of a singing telegram company for my thank you notes.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Since I hate writing I have enlisted the services of a singing telegram company for my thank you notes.

Hope its not one of those stripper ones.😀

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hope its not one of those stripper ones.😀

I have repeatedly stressed the un-importance of thank you letters for ranking decisions. However, a stripper would clearly make an impact. Unclear if it would be positive or negative.

 

[Mustbeexhaustin]

I'm emailing my #1 program and telling them i'm ranking them 1. I figure that is useful information if they value strongly people who really want to be there. Otherwise I'm sending 2 to 3 line generic "thank you" emails to the PDs at other programs - because I think it's polite. It seems to me like saying "I'm highly interested", or "I'm ranking you highly" is pretty useless since it could mean ranking anywhere from 2-12 or whatever. It also betrays the fact that they are not your top choice.
Personally I believe the whole thank you note culture is a gigantic waste of paper. If I were a PD I'd assume every lengthy "thank you" is just an attempt to increase the applicant's chance of getting in. To make judgements about a person's professionalism or upbringing based on thank you notes during the match process seems totally misguided. How would tell the difference between the genuinely thankful applicant and the raging brown-noser? What if the dude who didn't waste his time writing these letters spent it volunteering at a free clinic, or taking care of his sick mother, or doing research or whatever other productive/honorable thing you can think up?
I'm hoping for a nationwide ban on thank you notes during the match. At least then I could play Guitar Hero in peace.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm hoping for a nationwide ban on thank you notes during the match. At least then I could play Guitar Hero in peace.

I'm thinking that next year, at the interview, I'll ask candidates to donate the cost of a stamp to their favorite charity instead of sending me a thank you note.

 

[Faebinder]

I'm thinking that next year, at the interview, I'll ask candidates to donate the cost of a stamp to their favorite charity instead of sending me a thank you note.

Well PDs do come in all kinda varieties. Some have an inexhaustable number of ass kissing receptors on their booty. Others are trying to "keep it real" cause they have been jaded.

I dont think "thank you" notes will disappear as long as the competition remains fierce.

Sides... according to my dad. If I wanted to look for a charity to spend money on, I should just go look in the mirror. So I suppose spending a dollar to marginally improve the way a program thinks of me is a charity. 😀