The AMA wants to stick it to us!

[deleted480308]

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You guys who think that they are giving 1/2 their stuff to somebody else are not only greedy little turds who know the price of everything and the value of nothing, you also never like to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

First women are almost always worse off financially after a divorce. Google is your friend here. They are more likely to be poor, in poverty, on welfare and generally less financially stable after a divorce even if they have 1/2 of your hard earned stuff.

Second your view of marriage is like a business contract at best and prostitution at worst. You give the woman money and she performs certain deeds for you.

Finally, you undervalue the services she provides. It is wrong to say your wife does not work. The correct statement is she does not work outside the home. They cook, clean, do laundry, shop and are the primary care givers for your offspring. Try to factor in the cost of providing these services on a 24/7 basis and you will see you are getting off cheap. Now add in the value of having another human being to share your life with and have an emotional connection to and you are really getting off cheap. Now factor in the fact that most women are not stay at home moms but also work and many of those work full time. In those situations, they provide more of the housework than the men even though they also work outside the home.

If you try to take the scared (skipping the religious part for a second) out of marriage, it's just a business arrangement and most people will want some kind of golden parachute, so if you treat it that way, you can't be surprised if you have have to buy her out of the contract with 1/2 of your stuff.....

This is from a guy who has been happily married for more than 30 years and my wife does not contribute financially what I contribute to the family. I would not be able to have achieved the success in life and the happiness in life without her. I could not measure what we have in dollars and cents. any attempt to do so devalues what we have in every sense of the word.....

I'm 10 yrs into marriage and I couldn't be chasing my dream of a medical career without her being so great about handling pretty much every other detail of life right now.

 

[joetrisman]

Second your view of marriage is like a business contract at best and prostitution at worst. You give the woman money and she performs certain deeds for you.

View of marriage as a business != woman staying at home and doing all the house work. My wife and I are equal partners and approach our lives as such. Historically, marriages have been functions of business. Now its about love. Ha, no wonder the #1 cause of divorce is money issues.

This is from a guy who has been happily married for more than 30 years and my wife does not contribute financially what I contribute to the family. I would not be able to have achieved the success in life and the happiness in life without her. I could not measure what we have in dollars and cents.

As you mentioned previously, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal 😉

 

[BenJammin]

Old Timer, no other time in history has your username been more relevant than now. You are talking out your rear end with comments like "men who want more than half of what they own are greedy" and that we want women to do housework and nothing more. Unbelievable. Now is the time to step down from your pedestal and realize that times have changed and your post is reflective of a handshake in a contract sue-first world. Anybody that has been married, divorced, or seen what has occurred in modern day relationships knows that your long diatribe is out of touch with reality.

This is from a guy who has been happily married for more than 30 years and my wife does not contribute financially what I contribute to the family. I would not be able to have achieved the success in life and the happiness in life without her. I could not measure what we have in dollars and cents.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because you hit the jackpot and shacked up with a woman that wasn't money grubbing and knows nothing about marriage law doesn't mean the rest of us are privy to it. I will never understand the mentality of "it worked out for me so ignore the other people who didn't work it out like I did" as if it would make sense to say the same thing about jumping off a 3 story building and surviving. Well I survived so you go and do the same....madness.

 

[Momus]

OT... your post makes me laugh so hard! You are assuming that 50% of American population who got a divorce chose to marry a crook LOL

 

[Old Timer]

View of marriage as a business != woman staying at home and doing all the house work. My wife and I are equal partners and approach our lives as such. Historically, marriages have been functions of business. Now its about love. Ha, no wonder the #1 cause of divorce is money issues.

Except of course, money is not the number one cause of divorce. Look at any data and money rarely makes the top five reasons. So that would be an epic fail on your part.

Old Timer, no other time in history has your username been more relevant than now. You are talking out your rear end with comments like "men who want more than half of what they own are greedy" and that we want women to do housework and nothing more. Unbelievable. Now is the time to step down from your pedestal and realize that times have changed and your post is reflective of a handshake in a contract sue-first world. Anybody that has been married, divorced, or seen what has occurred in modern day relationships knows that your long diatribe is out of touch with reality.

Of course logic and argument are something that passed you by in school along with reading comprehension. I didn't say all you wanted was for women to do house work. I said several things including that if women did not work outside the home, they did bring something of value to the marriage that would cost a great deal of money to replace. I also said that even when both spouses work women do a majority of the house work, How you morphed it into I said you wanted women not to work is beyond my comprehension. I was commenting on previous posters unhappiness with parting with 1/2 of their stuff.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because you hit the jackpot and shacked up with a woman that wasn't money grubbing and knows nothing about marriage law doesn't mean the rest of us are privy to it. I will never understand the mentality of "it worked out for me so ignore the other people who didn't work it out like I did" as if it would make sense to say the same thing about jumping off a 3 story building and surviving. Well I survived so you go and do the same....madness.

First, don't be pissed that my marriage worked out and it's nice that you equate getting married with jumping out of a three story window, because they are so similar. It worked out for me for a number of reasons. I'd be happy to share the things you need to make a marriage successful.

But it would be nice to address what I actually said. If you do I'll be happy to debate with you....

 

[Old Timer]

OT... your post makes me laugh so hard! You are assuming that 50% of American population who got a divorce chose to marry a crook LOL

You make that assumption my friend, not me. You are the one who is worried about losing 50% of his worthless crap.

 

[Ackj]

It worked out for me for a number of reasons. I'd be happy to share the things you need to make a marriage successful.

I don't think anyone intends for their marriage to fall apart, but 50% of the time it does. Excluding the Hollywood celebs that have it as part of their PR campaign, of course. Let's hear what 30 years of marriage has got to offer. How did you beat the odds?

 

[Old Timer]

I don't think anyone intends for their marriage to fall apart, but 50% of the time it does. Excluding the Hollywood celebs that have it as part of their PR campaign, of course. Let's hear what 30 years of marriage has got to offer. How did you beat the odds?

The cliff notes version of it goes like this. There are four things you need to have a successful marriage:

• Lust
• Common Values
• Communication
• Choseness
  

There is no relationship with out attraction. If you are not attracted to the other person it's hard to sustain a relationship. It's fascinating that there is no Hebrew word for sex. The Bible is not using alliteration when it speaks of sex as knowledge. To make love to your spouse is truly to know them in the most intimate way possible.

Common values are the key in my opinion. You don't run into money problems if you both have the same values or world view. It's easier to follow the road of life if you both have the same map. If one wants kids and the other doesn't, if one party values things and the other doesn't, if one is a spender and one is a cheapskate it's not going to work. You need to share values or a common outlook on life.

Communication or lack thereof is one of the major causes of divorce. People bury their problems instead of facing them. You can't work anything out if you don't speak or speak past your spouse.

Chosen is the answer to Freud's question; What is it that a woman wants? If a woman wanted to be loved, she would never leaver her parents. If you want to have a successful marriage it means you have to do the same thing you do on your wedding day and choose your spouse. It's making that decision day in and day out that makes a marriage last over the long haul.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This all presupposes only men make big-time money. Maybe women should be demanding pre-nups of their men...

If they make more money, absolutely. There have been cases where women get the man treatment at the divorce hearing. Stay at home husband gets the house, kids, and a bunch of free money every month. A successful woman should protect herself.

This happens less frequently, though, as many women see men that make less than them as beneath them. This isn't just crazy Mikey saying some crap off the top of his head, there are actually studies about this. It's called hypergamy. Women are more likely to marry partially for an added degree of status. Not saying this is bad, its just statistics.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

OT, man, look, I understand where you're coming from. But you haven't lived as a Gen Y male in the world of double standards and hypocrisy that third wave feminism has created for us. Back in your day, being a father and husband was something that was always respected. We've been Homer Simpson'd to death. Young men, as a group, have already been deemed unworthy of todays young women. Not to mention the fact that, basically, we are being asked to pay for the sins of our great grandfathers. For "privileges" we've never had and never will have.

 

[Old Timer]

OT, man, look, I understand where you're coming from. But you haven't lived as a Gen Y male in the world of double standards and hypocrisy that third wave feminism has created for us. Back in your day, being a father and husband was something that was always respected. We've been Homer Simpson'd to death. Young men, as a group, have already been deemed unworthy of todays young women. Not to mention the fact that, basically, we are being asked to pay for the sins of our great grandfathers. For "privileges" we've never had and never will have.

You are certainly on to something in that the role of the male in society is totally screwed up and because of that men are totally screwed up. I don't know about the sins of the grandfather thing.

Being a husband and father is still respected today, it's just harder to do. While there are many women who don't think they need a man there are many more that are looking for one and can't find one that's not in need of years of therapy and normalization.

That's like the story about why married women are heavier than single women.
The single woman comes home and looks in the fridge and goes to bed.
while
The married woman comes and looks in the bed......

 

[Momus]

You make that assumption my friend, not me. You are the one who is worried about losing 50% of his worthless crap.

And yet, you are the only guy here who doesn't yet get it despite the cold hard facts? If what you have right now is all worthless crap, there is a goodwill nearby why don't stop by and give all your worthless crap? I am sure they will value it more than you.

 

[Momus]

If they make more money, absolutely. There have been cases where women get the man treatment at the divorce hearing. Stay at home husband gets the house, kids, and a bunch of free money every month. A successful woman should protect herself.

This happens less frequently, though, as many women see men that make less than them as beneath them. This isn't just crazy Mikey saying some crap off the top of his head, there are actually studies about this. It's called hypergamy. Women are more likely to marry partially for an added degree of status. Not saying this is bad, its just statistics.

Yes, if the woman makes more, or has more assets, sign me up for a prenup! It's only fair. Most women will want a step up (in status), marrying a man with a good job, more money, more prestige than herself. What's the first thing women ask when they gather with their best friends? What does he do? (What's his status?) If your answer resembles anything close to "he is mooching off me/unemployment", her friends will think he is loser, and unworthy. The other way around? Not so much.

 

[Old Timer]

And yet, you are the only guy here who doesn't yet get it despite the cold hard facts? If what you have right now is all worthless crap, there is a goodwill nearby why don't stop by and give all your worthless crap? I am sure they will value it more than you.

What cold hard facts are those? You make it seem like divorce is a financial wind fall for women when the exact opposite is true. If you disagree, bring some facts to the table or just just shut up and play with your toys....

 

[Momus]

What cold hard facts are those? You make it seem like divorce is a financial wind fall for women when the exact opposite is true. If you disagree, bring some facts to the table or just just shut up and play with your toys....

61% of all child abuse is committed by biological mothers
25% of all child abuse is committed by natural fathers
Statistical Source: Current DHHS report on nationwide Child Abuse

79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award

46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support
26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support

20.0% of non-custodial mothers pay support at some level
61.0% of non-custodial fathers pay support at some level

66.2% of single custodial mothers work less than full-time
10.2% of single custodial fathers work less than full-time

7.0% of single custodial mothers work more than 44 hours weekly
24.5% of single custodial fathers work more than 44 hours weekly

46.2% of single custodial mothers receive public assistance
20.8% of single custodial fathers receive public assistance
Statistical Source: Technical Analysis Paper No. 42 - U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services - Office of Income Security Policy

90.2% of fathers with joint custody pay all the support due
79.1% of fathers with visitation privileges pay all the support due
44.5% of fathers with no visitation pay all the support due
37.9% of fathers are denied any visitation
66.0% of all support not paid by non-custodial fathers is due to inability to pay
Statistical Source: 1988 Census "Child Support and Alimony: 1989 Series P-60, No. 173 p. 6-7. and U.S. General Accounting Office Report" GAO/HRD-92-39FS January, 1992

50% of mothers see no value in the father's continued contact with his children.
--See "Surviving the Breakup" by Joan Berlin Kelly

40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the father's visitation to punish their ex-spouse.
--See "Frequency of Visitation...." by Stanford Braver, American Journal of Orthopsychiatry

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes
--U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
--Center for Disease Control
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes
--Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol. 14, p. 403-26
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes
--National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools
70% of juveniles in state operated institutions come from fatherless homes
--U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report Sept., 1988
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home
--Fulton County Georgia jail populations & Texas Dept. of Corrections, 1992

Translated, this means that children from a fatherless home are:

* 5 times more likely to commit suicide
* 32 times more likely to run away
* 20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
* 14 times more likely to commit rape
* 9 times more likely to drop out of school
* 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances
* 9 times more likely to end up in a state operated institution
* 20 times more likely to end up in prison

Women work 30% less. When was the last time that you've seen a woman at a construction site mixing concrete, laying tile or plastering drywall? You work 30% less and then complain about being paid less. When was the last time you've heard of a woman paying for a date? Or inventing something useful? The computer you're typing on was made by men. The internet.. made by men. The house you live in was made by men, as is the car you drive, that watch you're wearing and the roads you drive on. Most women are shallow and want nothing more but to marry a well off man that went through college, working hard to get where he is just to provide for you.

Despite protestations to the contrary and the lip service given to marriage vows, (you know the one about 'till death do us part') marriage is, for many women, simple an attempt to secure an ATM card for life. With a couple of kids, she's got it made. She puts the poor bloke out to pasture but keeps her hands permanently in his pocket. Moms have all the rights, get all the benefits, and dad is too often relegated to a visitor in his children's lives while being an ATM machine for mom. He can lose half (or more) of the cash, cars, house, investments, etc... and worse - the children. It's not uncommon to hear from the mouths of young married women, 'I don't need him, just his money' . Of course they don't stop to consider that whether they need their husband's presence or not is immaterial. The child needs a father. But most are too shallow and self-absorbed to think about the repercussions of their actions.

http://imgur.com/5ZvmL.png

Probably not a financial windfall, but more than 1/2 of your **** or even 3/4th easily what you work so hard for is gone since family court always favors women, just like a female rapist always get better treatment in court proceedings.

 

[Ante cibum]

People still take the AMA seriously?

And in other news, California is close to expanding scope of practice for pharmacists, optometrists, and NP's.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB493

Pharmacist practitioner, I like the sound of that. APRpH

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HavF5f3VoA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Momus]

BOOM! There are tons of facts you wanted. Wake up OT, and welcome to 2013 LOL. Thanks to ongoing male discrimination on family law, uprising fascist feminism, women will get fare better than men after divorce.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505268_162-57360957/study-women-fare-better-after-divorce-than-men/

I am protecting myself and so should everyone that goes into marriage with financially unequal partner.

 

[BenJammin]

Old Timer is beyond help. He just doesn't understand that marriage in 2013 is COMPLETELY different from marriage in 1960 or 1970, hell even 1980. The reasons these marriages fail isn't because they aren't doing those 4 points you mentioned, it's because the kind of marriage you preach doesn't exist anymore. You guys set us up for failure by badgering us "why aren't you getting married" or "when are you going to grow up" comments. Now that some of us are pushing back, you have a problem with it.

SB493: Would establish “advanced practice pharmacist” recognition status with specific training requirements, allowing such pharmacists to perform physical assessments, order and interpret medication-related tests, and refer patients to other providers.

Physical assessments = physical exams? Totally out of our scope of practice.

 

[radio frequency]

If they make more money, absolutely. There have been cases where women get the man treatment at the divorce hearing. Stay at home husband gets the house, kids, and a bunch of free money every month. A successful woman should protect herself.

This happens less frequently, though, as many women see men that make less than them as beneath them. This isn't just crazy Mikey saying some crap off the top of his head, there are actually studies about this. It's called hypergamy. Women are more likely to marry partially for an added degree of status. Not saying this is bad, its just statistics.

Yes, if the woman makes more, or has more assets, sign me up for a prenup! It's only fair. Most women will want a step up (in status), marrying a man with a good job, more money, more prestige than herself. What's the first thing women ask when they gather with their best friends? What does he do? (What's his status?) If your answer resembles anything close to "he is mooching off me/unemployment", her friends will think he is loser, and unworthy. The other way around? Not so much.

Weird, my pharmacy school must be the odd place where this doesn't happen. Among the men with partners, most of them have wives with a higher status than them (dentists, lawyers, etc). Among the women, they mostly date and marry down (men with a bachelor's degree or less and no fancy titles). It's hard to believe it isn't this way everywhere.

 

[owlegrad]

Weird, my pharmacy school must be the odd place where this doesn't happen. Among the men with partners, most of them have wives with a higher status than them (dentists, lawyers, etc). Among the women, they mostly date and marry down (men with a bachelor's degree or less and no fancy titles). It's hard to believe it isn't this way everywhere.

Most woman I know married up, socioeconomically speaking. I can think of one exception, but when they got married I think the man made more so it is kind of hard to decide if the rule applies or not.

In general, I think woman tend to date/marry up whenever possible. If a guy said he was dating a woman who only worked part time so she can devote most of her time to say let's say painting, no one would bat an eyelash. If a woman said that about a guy, she would be told to dump his lazy ass. Or maybe I am wrong.

 

[owlegrad]

And keep in mind, once you get to the doctoral level it is harder to marry up.

 

[hizentra]

This is a touchy issue. You have to consider that there are many more educated women than men. My successful friends in their early 30s are having a hard time finding a successful guy. The guys they meet are either not mature enough or not ambitious enough. What should they do?

 

[spacecowgirl]

All of my girlfriends have more advanced degrees and most make more than their spouses. Myself included. I could go into why I think women initiate divorce more often but I won't.

 

[chudat]

All of my girlfriends have more advanced degrees and most make more than their spouses. Myself included. I could go into why I think women initiate divorce more often but I won't.

I think men are intimidated by the the more 'successful' women....and these women are more of a pro feminist type

 

[klaurent02]

There's a good book that talks about the brain's bias against using statistics when thinking intuitively, and this is a good example of that. Check out "thinking fast and slow" by Daniel Kahneman.

UNLESS she is your financial equal, you really should get a pre-nup. 50% chance of failure. Use logic, not emotion. Everyone marries with the right intentions, but ignoring statistics is foolish. Especially considering the fact that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. The most common excuse is "boredom."

So there ya go...

 

[BuffaloPills]

Classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laXQv7zvbp4

 

[WVUPharm2007]

"They fear my success" is just something undesirable women say as too make themselves feel better.

More than likely these men cannot stand them because they are narcissistic beyond what they can handle. Who seriously goes around thinking, "why aren't these men falling over themselves. .. I'm better than them! "

Or they are just ugly.

 

[BMBiology]

You guys are harsh!

The truth is that guys are fine with "marrying down". We don't care all that much about her career or how much money she makes. We care more about looks and her youth.

Girls care more about career and education but by the time they graduate, the successful guys are already taken. Since successful guys don't care all that much about her career, they have many more options.

And to be honest, the stress that is goes with pharmacy school makes girls look older. Even pretty and successful girls are in a difficult position by the age of 28 when they want to be with someone with similar earning potential and education.