The American Society for Radiation Oncology Workforce Statement

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2012: Chirag Shah starts blood-bath in Red Journal SDN jumps on board and petitions for change
2013-2015: ASTRO: "This is not a problem."
2016-2020: ASTRO: "OK it's a problem but we can't do anything about it - you know, anti-trust and all."
2021-2022: Match data shows that med students are the canaries in a coal mine
2022: ASTRO: "OK maybe we can do something about it, let's put a committee together to study the problem."
2024: ASTRO: "OK, the committee says that there is a problem. They recommend increased outreach of medical students, increased efforts to bring in women, brown/black people and LBGTQ+ people, and increase indications for radiation therapy."

And the beat goes on . . .

Maybe by 2024 I will be employed by Evicore too.
 
Gfunk6 said:
2012: Chirag Shah starts blood-bath in Red Journal SDN jumps on board and petitions for change
2013-2015: ASTRO: "This is not a problem."
2016-2020: ASTRO: "OK it's a problem but we can't do anything about it - you know, anti-trust and all."
2021-2022: Match data shows that med students are the canaries in a coal mine
2022: ASTRO: "OK maybe we can do something about it, let's put a committee together to study the problem."
2024: ASTRO: "OK, the committee says that there is a problem. They recommend increased outreach of medical students, increased efforts to bring in women, brown/black people and LBGTQ+ people, and increase indications for radiation therapy."

And the beat goes on . . .

Maybe by 2024 I will be employed by Evicore too.
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Common theme I’ve noted that when the finances get bad…the subject changes to virtue signaling and the real problem is ignored.
 
big rad onc allies/cronies of the hellpits will continue to facilitate the propping of these totally useless places which continue to take “anybody” in the SOAP. You think shame will steer these places? They don’t care what an editorial says. Their ability to continue to SOAP needs to be blocked. Nobody should be encouraging people to go work at these places either.
 
thecarbonionangle said:
big rad onc allies/cronies of the hellpits will continue to facilitate the propping of these totally useless places which continue to take “anybody” in the SOAP. You think shame will steer these places? They don’t care what an editorial says. Their ability to continue to SOAP needs to be blocked. Nobody should be encouraging people to go work at these places either.
Click to expand...
I always get shot down on this, but we shouldn’t hire us MDs from hellpits. If someone needed a certain location, they have awful judgement choosing radonc. us MDs can fill the top 25 programs.
 
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RickyScott said:
I was always get shot down on this, but we shouldn’t hire us MDs from hellpits. If someone needed a certain location, they have awful judgement choosing radonc. us MDs can fill the top 25 programs.
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I just dont think the solution is to hurt the people coming out. If they can pass boards and be good docs then its fine. The issue is we have an oversupply. We need to fix the issue at the stem and shut them down. Cut off supply of warm bodies going into residency and to work as attendings. Anyone propping up these hellpits is misguided. No good deed goes unpunished. Some forget this!
 
thecarbonionangle said:
I just dont think the solution is to hurt the people coming out. If they can pass boards and be good docs then its fine. The issue is we have an oversupply. We need to fix the issue at the stem and shut them down. Cut off supply of warm bodies going into residency and to work as attendings. Anyone propping up these hellpits is misguided. No good deed goes unpunished. Some forget this!
Click to expand...
I have more sympathy for those employed/toiling away in these pits of hell. A significant portion of graduating residents only received one job offer, while US MD applicants have so many options.
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
I just dont think the solution is to hurt the people coming out. If they can pass boards and be good docs then its fine. The issue is we have an oversupply. We need to fix the issue at the stem and shut them down. Cut off supply of warm bodies going into residency and to work as attendings. Anyone propping up these hellpits is misguided. No good deed goes unpunished. Some forget this!
Click to expand...

The approach aims to fix the oversupply problem through another route. Basically we are saying that if you are not from a top program (say the top 100 spots), then you are simply not employable. Then all the hellpit programs end up collapsing because they can’t get jobs at all.

The biggest issue with it is that, in many/most cases, the docs are not the ones doing the hiring - or it’s the chairmen who can just kind of do what they want, as they have been. And if a hospital admin is aware that a graduate from a hellpit program is willing to work for peanuts, then it’s just not going to work. They will pick whoever is cheapest.
 
thesauce said:
The approach aims to fix the oversupply problem through another route. Basically we are saying that if you are not from a top program (say the top 100 spots), then you are simply not employable. Then all the hellpit programs end up collapsing because they can’t get jobs at all.

The biggest issue with it is that, in many/most cases, the docs are not the ones doing the hiring - or it’s the chairmen who can just kind of do what they want, as they have been. And if a hospital admin is aware that a graduate from a hellpit program is willing to work for peanuts, then it’s just not going to work. They will pick whoever is cheapest.
Click to expand...
Look the solution isnt all rainbows and butterflies. The people employed at hellpit programs will be fine. The patients will continue to be treated. They just need to hire more people instead of depending on cheap labour. The assembly line pumping out warm bodies needs to come to a scretching halt if we are to fix this. I could care less for the hellpit chairs who quietly all soaped and act like nothing is wrong.
Someone is gonna get their feelings hurt whatever thing you choose. I think ethically closing bad programs has to be one of the solutions. We need to drastically cut spots. Many bad programs were forced to close when the contraction happened in the 90s. We need to do this again.
 
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