The AP program at RFU is officially DEAD

[Mperor]

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The head of the department came in and spoke to the current AP class about next years program. It looks like they are trying to completely deliniate it from any affiliation with the medical school.

They emphisized that there will be no more correlation between performance in the new program and matriculation into the medical school. NO 3.0 garauntee and NO "wink wink, nudge nudge" implied 3.0 and your in. It is geared more towards a career in health services and pursuing a career with the new masters degree.

Any current APer who was present for the speech will agree, as of now, the strong affiliation between RFUs post bac and CMS is gone. Sorry guys.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Sorry, but RFU should really be ashamed of themselves. They have strung us along and now tell us the AP program was changed to the Masters of Biomedical sciences. However, they have totally lost any connection with the medical school?!?! Class act...... 😡

 

[Tommyk7]

Boohoo. I was really hoping that they wouldn't change it... 🙁 Oh well, time to look for other programs eh?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Very very poorly done by RFU IMO.. Sorry guys! Best of luck... in wherever your career takes you!

 

[caldoc44]

Very very poorly done by RFU IMO.. Sorry guys! Best of luck... in wherever your career takes you!

So is the current class screwed also? Or just starting next year?

 

[EctopicFetus]

So is the current class screwed also? Or just starting next year?

Ill defer to MPeror... Since he is a current AP

 

[NRAI2001]

Dam, so they specifically said that the 3.0 "guarantee" will definitely no longer be in force?

Will students of the program still take medical school courses? Will it become a program more similar to Georgetown, where a few of the students may get admitted into the med school?

 

[letsrun4it]

Dam, so they specifically said that the 3.0 "guarantee" will definitely no longer be in force?

Will students of the program still take medical school courses? Will it become a program more similar to Georgetown, where a few of the students may get admitted into the med school?

I'm no expert on this but I believe the program didn't get much respect outside of RFU so without the 3.0 its a dud

 

[Sundarban1]

I'm no expert on this but I believe the program didn't get much respect outside of RFU so without the 3.0 its a dud

RFU does not get respect, period. This was a good decision in my opinion. Going from probation, etc. it is a step forward for the school, to many students dismay, but a good step nonetheless.

If you want your medical school to be respected it's time to stop handing out acceptances to everyone who can pull off a 3.0 in what is considered the least respected allopathic school in the US.

👍

 

[markboonya]

wow, gtown smp is gonna be even more competitive to get in this year.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sundarban WTF are you talking about man? Least respected by who? I am having people kiss my rear end on the interview trail and on top of that have you seen our match list? Certainly not at the bottom is it?

IMO this is a mistake giving out acceptances to people with no standardization is a joke. This at least shows you can hack it at med school. If you think a 3.0 is easy you are highly mistaken my friend. Anyhow good luck with your pursuit.

 

[EctopicFetus]

You are a post bac student as well. Can you please get over yourself?

 

[junebuguf]

I agree with Ectopic. I didnt think much of RFU either, but then I saw their match lists and they routinely match several grads into very competitive residencies at prestigious places, so they must be doing something right. I dont know about the probation, but it doesnt seem to affect residency directors impressions of their students. Plus, a lot of schools go through turmoil in their program. Hopkins' IM program was put on probation a few years ago. UF's med school faculty pretty much ousted the dean with a unanimous no confidence vote, et et.

I think RFU probably does rank near the bottom of SMP programs and their reputation at other schools. Its hard to say though, because I have never seen any hard numbers from the program about how many students get accepted and where they end up.

 

[earmuffs]

RFU does not get respect, period. This was a good decision in my opinion. Going from probation, etc. it is a step forward for the school, to many students dismay, but a good step nonetheless.

If you want your medical school to be respected it's time to stop handing out acceptances to everyone who can pull off a 3.0 in what is considered the least respected allopathic school in the US.

👍

Wow, what's with the hatin'?

A few old timer docs may still see the school this way based on its reputation a few decades ago. But things there have changed a lot.

Did you see their match list for the last few years!?! Thought I would post the links just in case. Not too shabby for the "least respected allopathic school in the US."

Rosalind Franklin University
2005
2004
2003
2002

Original thread

 

[EctopicFetus]

Just FYI talked to some of my former APers.. Early match was today! 4 of the 7 who matched ophtho were former APers. Yeah they sure are dumb..

My (3 of the 4) real real close friends all matched at their #1. Yeah real crappy school!

Thing is we know we arent Harvard but our match list is up there with almost any other school in the US.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Crap dupe post!

 

[EctopicFetus]

another great match list is expected this yr.. Fret not!

 

[Mperor]

Ill defer to MPeror... Since he is a current AP

No, current AP students are grandfather claused in. Changes take effect next year.

 

[Mperor]

Dam, so they specifically said that the 3.0 "guarantee" will definitely no longer be in force?

Will students of the program still take medical school courses? Will it become a program more similar to Georgetown, where a few of the students may get admitted into the med school?

Yes, the only medical school course that is offered to APs this year that will not be offered in the new program will be Genetics. In addition they are adding about 2-3 new courses each semester to comprise an actual masters degree.

I still imagine that there will be students who will make the transition from the new program to CMS, just not under any iron clad point system, and I imagine the numbers will probably be less.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Man I wonder what those guys are thinking they have to know that this will cut people who want to get in there. This thing is really pretty sad. I think maybe they could raise the 3.0 cutoff to 3.3 and then admit others who are between 3.0 and 3.3 depending on what they think of them. This is just really a shame!

 

[jebus]

I still imagine that there will be students who will make the transition from the new program to CMS, just not under any iron clad point system, and I imagine the numbers will probably be less.

I suspect this is the reason they wanted to change the AP program. They probably want to improve the numbers of their matriculants - I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the physicians who trained at RFU and attended the AP...
Oh well, looks like it's time to apply to Georgetown....

 

[Mperor]

I suspect this is the reason they wanted to change the AP program. They probably want to improve the numbers of their matriculants - I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the physicians who trained at RFU and attended the AP...
Oh well, looks like it's time to apply to Georgetown....

absolutely, since stats of the matriculants is one of the ways a medical school is judged. Considering that Ros frank has a very competetive match list and I am told their students score in the upper half of the boards, this is probably one of rosalind franklins weaker points, ON PAPER

however, statistics aside, I think the APers who have the drive to make it show a quality that isn't seen in every medical student. A lot of these people have seen other fields already, and have decided that there is nothing that will satisfy them like medicine. Whereas I think a lot of "straight in" students haven't had the opportunity to test their desire to enter medicine by experiencing other fields. It just so happened that they could hack it in undergrad. And thats where I think that RFU is really going to lose out. In the character department of their students, when they restructure the program. 👎

 

[HopeFaith]

Oh well. At least we know now so that those of us who were going to apply can move on. I'm also afraid Gtown will be super hard to get into this cycle...
Drexel here I come?

 

[USArmyDoc]

Rfu Sucks!!

 

[NRAI2001]

Rfu Sucks!!

I second that. 👎

 

[Sundarban1]

I second that. 👎

This is well established. The school is cleaning up it's act and like I said eliminating the free pass to medical school is a step forward for a school that was laughed at for most of its existance.

I mean, really. What other SMP with linkage to its medical school holds such low standards (3.0 and you're in)?? If you were in G-Town's program and had a 3.0 you would have NO CHANCE at their medical school. Same with BU's program, etc. It is about time they took themselves seriously. Great job in my opinion. 👍

 

[NRAI2001]

This is well established. The school is cleaning up it's act and like I said eliminating the free pass to medical school is a step forward for a school that was laughed at for most of its existance.

I mean, really. What other SMP with linkage to its medical school holds such low standards (3.0 and you're in)?? If you were in G-Town's program and had a 3.0 you would have NO CHANCE at their medical school. Same with BU's program, etc. It is about time they took themselves seriously. Great job in my opinion. 👍

I dont know what caused RFU to have such low ranking and low regards in many peoples minds, but i really doubt it was due to the AP program.

 

[EctopicFetus]

This is well established. The school is cleaning up it's act and like I said eliminating the free pass to medical school is a step forward for a school that was laughed at for most of its existance.

I mean, really. What other SMP with linkage to its medical school holds such low standards (3.0 and you're in)?? If you were in G-Town's program and had a 3.0 you would have NO CHANCE at their medical school. Same with BU's program, etc. It is about time they took themselves seriously. Great job in my opinion. 👍

I guess to each their own. The thing is your argument of the 3.0 being a joke is quite silly. You are in med school classes (mostly) and since there are no plusses or minuses a 3.0 means you have to be at least average compared to the md students. An "A" is about 1 SD above the mean.. Surely not a joke.. Anyways good luck getting into med school. Im all set for the match! 😉

Anyways joke or not.. Our match list is one of the better ones in the country.. Nuff said..Ill get back to rallying the EM forum to topple path.. Good luck guys. I have a few high level meetings at school and if I hear anything of value ill let you know. Sundarban did you get into med school yet?

 

[USArmyDoc]

This is well established. The school is cleaning up it's act and like I said eliminating the free pass to medical school is a step forward for a school that was laughed at for most of its existance.

I mean, really. What other SMP with linkage to its medical school holds such low standards (3.0 and you're in)?? If you were in G-Town's program and had a 3.0 you would have NO CHANCE at their medical school. Same with BU's program, etc. It is about time they took themselves seriously. Great job in my opinion. 👍

👎 👎 😉

 

[EctopicFetus]

USArmyDoc,

Im not sure if Sundarban understands how tough it is. He also seems to miss the point that you actually have to EARN your way in. Too many people in med school are privileged and have no idea how lucky they are. Im not saying Sundarban is that way.. but I dont think his point makes a ton of sense. On the other hand he is right that the students from the AP program do bring the stats of the school down (usually, though one of my buds had a 3.8, 31MCAT). Anyhow, I think it is a shame.. But I guess thats life.. Ill see if I can get some insight into this.

 

[Vizsla]

This is well established. The school is cleaning up it's act and like I said eliminating the free pass to medical school is a step forward for a school that was laughed at for most of its existance.

I mean, really. What other SMP with linkage to its medical school holds such low standards (3.0 and you're in)?? If you were in G-Town's program and had a 3.0 you would have NO CHANCE at their medical school. Same with BU's program, etc. It is about time they took themselves seriously. Great job in my opinion. 👍

I think its a good idea they got rid of the "3.0 free pass". At gtown smp last yr, you needed at least a 3.5 to get an interview, but since RFU doesnt have pluses and minuses and gtown does, its prob slightly easier on gtowns SMP students since they can rely on a B+ and A- to pull their average up. Then again, a B+ and A- in gtowns SMP is equal to a High Pass for a gtown med students so you do have to work hard to get it. I agree with Sundarban...theres no way you would get an interview at gtown with 3.0. Is it true though that RFU students do so well on the boards bc the courses are all specifically tailored towards passing them ?? (like a Kaplan or Princeton review course)

 

[USArmyDoc]

I think its a good idea they got rid of the "3.0 free pass". At gtown smp last yr, you needed at least a 3.5 to get an interview, but since RFU doesnt have pluses and minuses and gtown does, its prob slightly easier on gtowns SMP students since they can rely on a B+ and A- to pull their average up. Then again, a B+ and A- in gtowns SMP is equal to a High Pass for a gtown med students so you do have to work hard to get it. I agree with Sundarban...theres no way you would get an interview at gtown with 3.0. Is it true though that RFU students do so well on the boards bc the courses are all specifically tailored towards passing them ?? (like a Kaplan or Princeton review course)

Honestly, I really do not think anyone here but Ectopic can give us a valid opinion. At Gtown, they have +'s and -'s making it easier to get a 3.5. Therefore, I don't even think you can compare the two. So I am not happy they got rid of the 3.0! 😡

 

[Touchdown]

Georgetown's grades are tied to the medical school curve so that:
A=top 10%
A-=next 10%
B+=next 10%

Trust me a B+ is a cause for celebration.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Georgetown's grades are tied to the medical school curve so that:
A=top 10%
A-=next 10%
B+=next 10%

Trust me a B+ is a cause for celebration.

I am not saying its easy. I am just saying that there are +'s and -'s making it at least more of chance to get a 3.5.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I think its a good idea they got rid of the "3.0 free pass". At gtown smp last yr, you needed at least a 3.5 to get an interview, but since RFU doesnt have pluses and minuses and gtown does, its prob slightly easier on gtowns SMP students since they can rely on a B+ and A- to pull their average up. Then again, a B+ and A- in gtowns SMP is equal to a High Pass for a gtown med students so you do have to work hard to get it. I agree with Sundarban...theres no way you would get an interview at gtown with 3.0. Is

The thing is vizsla I dont know what the Gtown SMP is.. Do you guys take all your classes with MD students? Are you graded on their curve? the APs are.. I dont even know why I am discussing this because 1) the program is gone.. and 2) I am an M4 ...... wait since I am an M4 and interviews are over that means I have nothing left to do!

it true though that RFU students do so well on the boards bc the courses are all specifically tailored towards passing them ?? (like a Kaplan or Princeton review course)

This is one of the funniest things I have EVER heard? No we use books and study like others. I have studied with peeps from Northwestern & Rush and the material is the same.. Where do people come up with this stuff? The reason people do well is because we are aware that there is a slightly uphill climb compared to some other places.. but we are doing quite well. 7 ophtho matches this yr.. 4 of which at their #1 and the other 3 in their top 3.. For those who dont know ophtho is relatively competitive.

I wonder if getting a 3.0 at RFU AP is equal to a 3.5 in the GTown SMP.. Thing is neither of us know.. But FWIW I can assure you APers dont get a free pass. People who dont work hard fail out... thats the way the ball bounces..

 

[EctopicFetus]

what is a B+ worth? 3.3? 3.5?

 

[EctopicFetus]

here is what I really really dont get.. Why would ANYONE be happy they dropped the program? How does it adversely affect you? I dont get that logic at all?

 

[USArmyDoc]

here is what I really really dont get.. Why would ANYONE be happy they dropped the program? How does it adversely affect you? I dont get that logic at all?

👍 👍

 

[Touchdown]

At Georgetown, all medical school class grades are based on the medical student curve and an A- is 3.667 and a B+ is 3.333. Also at the time you need your 3.5 GPA for an interview you would have taken 22 credits, of which 13 are from the first semister, 2 are pass fail (ie. dont count) and 7 are from Physiology (which you complete Jan-Mar).

Finally, Georgetown does have a 3.0 rule; if you dont get a 3.0 you fail out of the program and do not get your Masters.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Cool good luck to you TD.. Long way to go for you.. Im sure you will make it..

 

[Touchdown]

Thanks Ectopic.

 

[Vizsla]

here is what I really really dont get.. Why would ANYONE be happy they dropped the program? How does it adversely affect you? I dont get that logic at all?

I didnt say that it made me happy, I said it was a good idea....exactly for the same reasons you stated earlier. Perhaps it will pull the averages up for the school. As for how the material is taught, Ive seen some of the cardio lectures from an AP student at RFU and it was presented much differently than gtown, more of a concise study guide format. Thats the only reason I asked...

 

[EctopicFetus]

RFU does not get respect, period. This was a good decision in my opinion. Going from probation, etc. it is a step forward for the school, to many students dismay, but a good step nonetheless.

If you want your medical school to be respected it's time to stop handing out acceptances to everyone who can pull off a 3.0 in what is considered the least respected allopathic school in the US.

👍

Viszla I was referring to this post. Why would anyone not affiliated with the school care? I dont get it. Neither of you guys have a degree from there (right?) and I do and somehow the school's rep bothers you guys (Sundarban more than you) more than it bothers me.

Perhaps it is because while the rep sucks amoung undergraduates it is pretty good among program directors and in the end it is ONLY their opinion that matters.

 

[Sundarban1]

Viszla I was referring to this post. Why would anyone not affiliated with the school care? I dont get it. Neither of you guys have a degree from there (right?) and I do and somehow the school's rep bothers you guys (Sundarban more than you) more than it bothers me.

Perhaps it is because while the rep sucks amoung undergraduates it is pretty good among program directors and in the end it is ONLY their opinion that matters.

Because the medical school process as a whole has a certain standard of rigor (that all students appreciate once you made it) that is underminded when you lower the standards for a select group of students.

Does the community as a whole respect foreign schools that do not require the MCAT for admission? No. Do they respect US schools that set 3.0 and you're in standards to their students? No.

Now that this school is getting it's act together I would consider applying knowing that when/if I'm accepted that by the time I graduate I will have a degree from a respected school. That is all, carry on.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Because the medical school process as a whole has a certain standard of rigor (that all students appreciate once you made it) that is underminded when you lower the standards for a select group of students.

Does the community as a whole respect foreign schools that do not require the MCAT for admission? No. Do they respect US schools that set 3.0 and you're in standards to their students? No.

Now that this school is getting it's act together I would consider applying knowing that when/if I'm accepted that by the time I graduate I will have a degree from a respected school. That is all, carry on.

Dude dont be a prick. What the hell are you talking about? Yeah no one respects RFU the 7 people who matching Ophtho are proof of that How about the people who got into Derm and Rad onc? Also we had a guy last yr or the yr before match into ONE of 55 spots for combined plastics, yep surely no one respects RFU. Whatever.. Im not saying we are Harvard or any of the other top tier schools but the grads here get plenty of love when it comes to the residency match which is ALL that matters. So if you can show me some definitive proof to back your argument I think this discussion is over. You show me ONE foreign school with that match list in the US and then lets talk.

To your last paragraph IIRC you are doing a post bac at harvard.. You will consider applying to RFU PUH-LEEZE. Go earn your pretigious Harvard post-bac.. Let me know how the match goes in 5 years

Obviously your pre-med status has your head all sorts of messed up man, the PDs showed me and ALL my friends in my class a lot of love.. FWIW I would rather them respect me and want me than have a pre-med person be impressed with where I earned my MD from.

BTW did I mention how many of the PDs had great things to say about the students who come out of the school? The superlatives were quite nice. Ill be sure to post our Match list for your consumption!

 

[NRAI2001]

Dude dont be a prick. What the hell are you talking about? Yeah no one respects RFU the 7 people who matching Ophtho are proof of that How about the people who got into Derm and Rad onc? Also we had a guy last yr or the yr before match into ONE of 55 spots for combined plastics, yep surely no one respects RFU. Whatever.. Im not saying we are Harvard or any of the other top tier schools but the grads here get plenty of love when it comes to the residency match which is ALL that matters. So if you can show me some definitive proof to back your argument I think this discussion is over. You show me ONE foreign school with that match list in the US and then lets talk.

To your last paragraph IIRC you are doing a post bac at harvard.. You will consider applying to RFU PUH-LEEZE. Go earn your pretigious Harvard post-bac.. Let me know how the match goes in 5 years

Obviously your pre-med status has your head all sorts of messed up man, the PDs showed me and ALL my friends in my class a lot of love.. FWIW I would rather them respect me and want me than have a pre-med person be impressed with where I earned my MD from.

BTW did I mention how many of the PDs had great things to say about the students who come out of the school? The superlatives were quite nice. Ill be sure to post our Match list for your consumption!

Yea, sundarbaran is a dumbasz. Please dont give RFU the honor of your application.

 

[ocean11]

yup

 

[USArmyDoc]

don't forget about the 2 people who matched into derm... as a CMS student, I CHOSE to come her vs. other medschools. I think that its a GREAT idea to get rid of the AP program.... why is everyone here btching? if you want to get in to med school, then APPLY DIRECTLY! you shouldn't need a postbach program that will 'guarantee' you to get in... just work hard in your undergrad career. This isn't to say that you shouldn't do a postbach to boost your grades... but to solely rely on a program to get in....

I know the hardships of rejection I applied 4 times AND did the MCAT 4 times (due to low verbal) and you know what?!! I never even considered a postbach program....

Good for you but I don't really care you did it 4 times. I only wanted to do it 2 times and do the RFU AP program. Sorry to sound rude but the AP program is an option to everyone. Therefore, no need to knock the people who are upset about not being able to do it this year.

 

[EctopicFetus]

USArmyDoc..

I have come to realize that the pre-med mentality still pervades the minds of many. Somehow wasting 4 years applying is wiser than PROVING that you can handle med school curriculum. Really dont worry about these people. I know I dont care anymore. Tuesday is a big meeting Ill see what kind of info comes out of that meeting

 

[Mperor]

👍 for ectopic waving the banner for CMS. Looking forward to another good match year.

Oh, and Sundarban, the best way I can see CMS increasing its respect is by you not going here.