The AP program at RFU is officially DEAD

[EctopicFetus]

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We got 6 or 7 for ophtho.. looks like we will close well. It is amazing as well because 4 of them were APs.. they had to "cheat" their way in 😕 I mean sure they could have applied 4 times or done a post bac somewhere else where they would actually have to earn admission. 😎

Whatever...

Mperor did you get my PM about 1 week ago..?

 

[EctopicFetus]

nm

 

[EctopicFetus]

since I didnt earn a good enough internet connection i accidentally posted like 4 times.. sorry

 

[ocean11]

USArmyDoc..

I have come to realize that the pre-med mentality still pervades the minds of many. Somehow wasting 4 years applying is wiser than PROVING that you can handle med school curriculum. Really dont worry about these people. I know I dont care anymore. Tuesday is a big meeting Ill see what kind of info comes out of that meeting

what premed mentality? I'm not knocking those who did post bach programs I just wanted to say that its POSSIBLE to get in without one, despite a bad MCAT or low GPA or something else... if one perseveres... they can still get in that was the bottom line, without wasting another 50,000$ see? anyhow..... regardless whether u decide to do a post bach or not.... good luck, I hope you will all succeed in the end 🙂

Ocean11

 

[NRAI2001]

what premed mentality? I'm not knocking those who did post bach programs I just wanted to say that its POSSIBLE to get in without one, despite a bad MCAT or low GPA or something else... if one perseveres... they can still get in that was the bottom line, without wasting another 50,000$ see? anyhow..... regardless whether u decide to do a post bach or not.... good luck, I hope you will all succeed in the end 🙂

Ocean11

I think your just bitter bc you didnt realize that a program like the AP program existed. I think doing a program like the AP or SMP at GT shows a lot of character. Most of those people could have easily taken the easy and more concrete route and gone straight to the carribean for school (which is not a bad option in itself). But instead they decided to spend a year doing the program, spending the money, awaiting the results anxiously......etc.

 

[yellowpersuazio]

I think your just bitter bc you didnt realize that a program like the AP program existed. I think doing a program like the AP or SMP at GT shows a lot of character. Most of those people could have easily taken the easy and more concrete route and gone straight to the carribean for school (which is not a bad option in itself). But instead they decided to spend a year doing the program, spending the money, awaiting the results anxiously......etc.

Ocean11 doesn't sound bitter at all. I think it's a good idea to get rid of the automatic in. Every other school that has a post-bac program requires its students to keep above-average grades, interview, and take the usual route that regular applicants have to endure. It makes sense. If you have low-stats after undergrad, you only have to work harder than most other applicants to prove yourself. I agree that it undermines the whole application process if all you have to do is maintain a B average and you're into the school. I'm sure there are hardworking people in every school, and if they're determined enough, they'll succeed in whatever they do. I think it's good that the school is going to boost its stats for the incoming classes.

 

[EctopicFetus]

***Found dead horse*****

NOw fully beaten.. Good luck to all of you guys!!! Just a few more weeks til I match!!!

 

[ocean11]

Once again, good luck all and I hope that you succeed regardless of the route you choose......

 

[NRAI2001]

Ocean11 doesn't sound bitter at all. I think it's a good idea to get rid of the automatic in. Every other school that has a post-bac program requires its students to keep above-average grades, interview, and take the usual route that regular applicants have to endure. It makes sense. If you have low-stats after undergrad, you only have to work harder than most other applicants to prove yourself. I agree that it undermines the whole application process if all you have to do is maintain a B average and you're into the school. I'm sure there are hardworking people in every school, and if they're determined enough, they'll succeed in whatever they do. I think it's good that the school is going to boost its stats for the incoming classes.

Its not like people with 2.0 s are getting into programs like the AP or GT SMP. Usually they have stats borderline to most other school's avg stats. Usually around 3.3 gpas and 26 to 29 mcats.

Either way we cant do anything about it. Good luck to all of you.

 

[Mperor]

what premed mentality? I'm not knocking those who did post bach programs I just wanted to say that its POSSIBLE to get in without one, despite a bad MCAT or low GPA or something else... if one perseveres... they can still get in that was the bottom line, without wasting another 50,000$ see? anyhow..... regardless whether u decide to do a post bach or not.... good luck, I hope you will all succeed in the end 🙂

Ocean11

I think there are a million ways to better your application for medical school, with a postbac being just one. Retake the mcats, retake premed courses, research, clincal work....anything. I preferred the postbac because its a structured program who's entire reputation depends on its graduates matriculation to medical school. It is structured around one thing. one of my problems as an undergrad was I got lost in a very large school that I didn't think cared about me. I could have repeated my classes but I felt I would have been leaving myself in the same situation that produced my mediocre scores to begin with. But I totally think theres many ways to get it. You just have to do what works for you. But to say, "I don't want to waste $50k" is a little near sighted when you could easily be 200k in the hole when you leave med school. Post bac or not. Good luck!!!

 

[Kazema]

Does the community as a whole respect foreign schools that do not require the MCAT for admission? No. Do they respect US schools that set 3.0 and you're in standards to their students? No.

I don't attend RFU, and never did a post-bacc. But even I can tell one thing from your posts in this thread.

You are a ridiculous, ridiculous person.

The only reputation any medical student should be worried about is their school's reputation with personnel directors. RFU seems to be doing just fine in that regard. Yes, they were on probation earlier, but they no longer are. Quite a few other schools have been on probation before. What poor reputation are you talking about?

And one more thing.

Letting people in who get 3.0's, graded on a curve against medical students is lowering standards? Getting a 3.0 means that these people are doing better than medical students. Half of the medical students in the country would fail out of RFU's AP program. Georgetown seems to be even more stringent in their requirements, but that doesn't mean that RFU's are easy.

This is lowering their standards? To let in people who are doing as well or better than their current students? What, you want only the people in the top 10% of the medical school class (i.e. potential AOA candidates) to be admitted to their program?

Let me repeat. You are ridiculous.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I don't attend RFU, and never did a post-bacc. But even I can tell one thing from your posts in this thread.

You are a ridiculous, ridiculous person.

The only reputation any medical student should be worried about is their school's reputation with personnel directors. RFU seems to be doing just fine in that regard. Yes, they were on probation earlier, but they no longer are. Quite a few other schools have been on probation before. What poor reputation are you talking about?

And one more thing.

Letting people in who get 3.0's, graded on a curve against medical students is lowering standards? Getting a 3.0 means that these people are doing better than medical students. Half of the medical students in the country would fail out of RFU's AP program. Georgetown seems to be even more stringent in their requirements, but that doesn't mean that RFU's are easy.

This is lowering their standards? To let in people who are doing as well or better than their current students? What, you want only the people in the top 10% of the medical school class (i.e. potential AOA candidates) to be admitted to their program?

Let me repeat. You are ridiculous.

👍 Thank you for clearly stating a truism!

 

[yellowpersuazio]

I don't attend RFU, and never did a post-bacc. But even I can tell one thing from your posts in this thread.

You are a ridiculous, ridiculous person.

The only reputation any medical student should be worried about is their school's reputation with personnel directors. RFU seems to be doing just fine in that regard. Yes, they were on probation earlier, but they no longer are. Quite a few other schools have been on probation before. What poor reputation are you talking about?

And one more thing.

Letting people in who get 3.0's, graded on a curve against medical students is lowering standards? Getting a 3.0 means that these people are doing better than medical students. Half of the medical students in the country would fail out of RFU's AP program. Georgetown seems to be even more stringent in their requirements, but that doesn't mean that RFU's are easy.

This is lowering their standards? To let in people who are doing as well or better than their current students? What, you want only the people in the top 10% of the medical school class (i.e. potential AOA candidates) to be admitted to their program?

Let me repeat. You are ridiculous.

The point of doing a post-bac/masters program is to show that you can really succeed, even though you have potentially low stats. Therefore, these students do have to prove themselves to admissions committees when taking medical school courses. Post-bac/masters students should have to show that they can achieve high scores, especially since they do not have the ALL of the daunting responsibilities and courses that their fellow med student classmates will have. A 3.0 seems pretty average to me. I'm sure that many students with a 3.0 average in undergrad can achieve a 3.0 in medical school. This is an avenue for those who need it to show that they can not only handle the curriculum but excel in it. That's just my two cents.

 

[Mperor]

The point of doing a post-bac/masters program is to show that you can really succeed, even though you have potentially low stats. Therefore, these students do have to prove themselves to admissions committees when taking medical school courses. Post-bac/masters students should have to show that they can achieve high scores, especially since they do not have the ALL of the daunting responsibilities and courses that their fellow med student classmates will have. A 3.0 seems pretty average to me. I'm sure that many students with a 3.0 average in undergrad can achieve a 3.0 in medical school. This is an avenue for those who need it to show that they can not only handle the curriculum but excel in it. That's just my two cents.

First, it almost sounds like you are comparing a 3.0 undergrad with a med 3.0 Considering the average person entering medical school has around a 3.7, and 50% of medical school students have a 3.0 or less. so I don't think the two are comprable.

Second, for the while the AP students had less of a medical course load (usually about 1 a semester) they had to take a graduate course in its place (not surprisingly about 1 or 2 a semester) And while I am not in a position to compare the difficulty of one course to another the averages are kept around an 80% in both. Which means there is just about as many APers getting C's in the graduate courses as there are meds getting Cs in the medical courses. So you are looking at a close comparison.

I wish I could invite you to try your hand at the program, to see if its as easy as some are making it out to be, but its gone and all the celebration or finger wagging won't bring it back.

And if you think that because of this program that allows average students to attend medical school has deminished the strength of RFU's class (that is about 33% former APs) please refer to our match list. If that doesn't satisfy you, please refer to the fact that the average Board score from RFU is above the national average. We can throw out all the opinions we want about the caliber of the AP student, but you can't argue with statistics.

I'm done arguing this point. I need to get back to studying my ass off for my exams. Awww who am I kidding! I'm an APer! We don't have to work at all 🙄

 

[silverdime]

The point of doing a post-bac/masters program is to show that you can really succeed, even though you have potentially low stats. Therefore, these students do have to prove themselves to admissions committees when taking medical school courses. Post-bac/masters students should have to show that they can achieve high scores, especially since they do not have the ALL of the daunting responsibilities and courses that their fellow med student classmates will have. A 3.0 seems pretty average to me. I'm sure that many students with a 3.0 average in undergrad can achieve a 3.0 in medical school. This is an avenue for those who need it to show that they can not only handle the curriculum but excel in it. That's just my two cents.

I'm going to side-step the whole appropriate-postbacc-GPA discussion for a moment in favor of something you've brought up here.

As Mperor said, I think you're making a mistake by saying that post-baccs are less work than the typical M1. The top programs are set up to mimic the M1 schedule as closely as possible, and provide as many med school classes as possible. Those "missing" classes are then provided at the graduate level and in many cases are themselves revised versions of other medical courses. For example, Georgetown's SMP Medical Immunology and Microbiology course is the graduate version of an M2 class, taught by the same professors and covering the same material. So I'd argue the schedules are identical in time spent in lecture and studying.

While I do agree that you should show more than baseline effort in these essentially second-chance classes, I'd also keep in mind that 80% of M1s are going to be making the equivalent of B's...or below. I'm sure that these M1s all had excellent GPAs. You can't compare an undergrad GPA to a medical school GPA to a graduate school GPA. They're playing off different scales.

Post-bacc GPAs, in my opinion, would fall closer to medical school GPAs than graduate ones, especially if the majority of your credits are medical. I wouldn't want to think that a B+ in histology, putting yourself in the top 20% of the M1 class, is anywhere like a B+ in biology 101.

(I know there are many med school grading policies. The one I'm using here is the LP/P/HP/H, where H is an A and HP is split between B+ and A-.)

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yep this yr 4 of the 7 ophtho people were former APers. I think overall the AP board scores are higher than that of our classmates.. From my FRIENDS who were in AP here are board scores I KNOW...
256, 252, 249, 249, 246, 242, 237, 237, 233, 225, 217, 212, 207,

For those that dont know the avg nationally was 217. Some of higher end scores are going into Peds, and 2xIM Also, derm, ortho, 2X ophtho, 1X rads.

Anyways.. on with your studies guys.. that 3.0 is what an average med student can do. thats how you are graded. Like I said 6 weeks til the match people!!! HELL YEAH!!!!

Bottom line is it isnt easy getting that 3.0, APers make up a very disproportionate percentage of people going into "competitive" specialties.