The borderline GPA case

[engineetor]

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Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker who is seeking some advice for nontraditional (I'll be turning 25 this year!) medical admission.

I'm currently a MS thesis student within Biomedical Engineering (GPA 3.38/4.0) who is interested in Medical School. My passion stems from clinical/volunteering experience and primarily my medical research. My UG gpa is 3.24/4.0 as an engineering major.

From what I gathered from the FAQ/board is:

1. Graduate GPA /MS doesn't count too much--your research experience will be more pertinent

2. UG GPA rules all and should be as High as possible. "Harder" majors get very little lee-way and should still be a minimum 3.6

3. "Banking" on a certain MCAT score, which I have not taken, is not a reliable option.

4. When applying, a wide-net is needed. I have residence within TX and therefore my primary scope/advantage would be to TX based schools.

Now what is peculiar about my case is that while my UG GPA (3.24/4.0) is low, I do have all A's in my premed prereqs which were taken before the academic masochism known as Engineering. In addition, I took a plethora of extra classes (Medical Physics) and therefore have a pretty substantial academic inertia that will be resistant to change--I imagine it would take a year or so of straight A's in 15+ hour classes to get to a 3.5

A post-bac is a possible option but I think it might be superfluous--I already hold a MS and I don't really need to enhance my pre-med credentials. On the other hand, if I do enroll in more UG classes, my UG GPA will be resistant to change and I'm not sure if it is wise to spend a year taking GPA-booster classes that are beyond the premed prereqs.

What would be the best course of action for some one in my position.

If anyone has relevant experience, advice, insight or just comments, it would be appreciated.

 

[Nasrudin]

Just to get your responses rolling and not b/c you just listen to me...

I am not convinced that adcom's do not realize that a 3.2 + in engineering is solid work.

Your assessment of the terrain is good. Your you have a lot of Texas schools to look at your application who heavily favor members of the lone star republic.

If I was you I'd have a go as is. Maybe squeezing in some upper division bio courses as your work and life permits in the next year or so. You'll most likely find these courses a cake walk compared to your engineering courses and A's should be obtainable w/ a modicum of discipline.

Your training is well suited to performing very well in the PS section of the MCAT. It was by far my best section. I recommend Berkeley Review books for content review and preparation. I used them studying on my own and am reasonably content with my results--but especially so in PS.

Taking Physiology, biochem, genetics, and cell biology will maybe help drive home some of the pertinent MCAT Bio topics and potentially killing two birds at once--MCAT prep and recent A's in medically related sciences. Although I did all of these and my bio section was not stellar. MCAT bio seems to be probing for the skill of reading data and charts and drawing conclusions about a science passage. I hadn't had much experience with this is my undergrad classes. Just something to think about as you go along.

Sorry. I've taken the day off and am feeling long winded. Good luck. I'd say go for it now.

 

[Pemberley]

You seem like you have a pretty clear picture. If you have 4-5 years of UG classwork already, then the inertia of your current GPA means that even 2 more years of undergrad work (and why on earth would you do that?) wouldn't pull up your GPA to something that admissions committees will like to see.

I had similar statistics (3.1 GPA in physics, strong MCAT, TX resident). I applied to 17 schools, and 1 of them let me in (that's all it takes!). Here's what I concluded from the process:

1) If your career goals are not incompatible with a DO, then apply DO as well as MD. Your odds go way up. I didn't do this, because I never got a clear idea, and in fact still don't have a clear idea, whether having the DO would have been incompatible with the subspecialties that I'm thinking of pursuing. (Don't jump all over me, people, I'm not saying that it's NOT... I'm saying that I genuinely don't have a clue.) At a certain point in the admissions cycle I was feeling pretty dumb over that decision.

2) Strengthen every other possible part of your application.

3) Expect that, even after you've managed #2, a certain percentage of schools will do a spreadsheet-sort or -filter or something to weed out people with very low numbers, and will never look at the rest of your package. They won't care that your engineering classes were tough, or that you got As in your pre-reqs. Therefore, apply BROADLY. Being a TX resident gives you a major leg up -- apply to all of our schools (and don't forget Baylor -- you have residency advantages there even though they're not TMDSAS.) Really research Texas Tech, etc., and know what you love about those schools so that they don't imagine that you're thinking of them as a back-up or as someplace people go who don't get into UTSW. They aren't that, but many people seem to think they are. Also apply out of Texas if you can afford to do so.

4) Prepare very well for your interviews. Get a mock interview with somebody who knows about medical school admissions. Edit: also have somebody who knows what they're doing read through your personal statement.

5) Pray. If you're not religious, cross your fingers or something. It's a crapshoot, but all you can do is give it your best shot.

Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker who is seeking some advice for nontraditional (I'll be turning 25 this year!) medical admission.

I'm currently a MS thesis student within Biomedical Engineering (GPA 3.38/4.0) who is interested in Medical School. My passion stems from clinical/volunteering experience and primarily my medical research. My UG gpa is 3.24/4.0 as an engineering major.

From what I gathered from the FAQ/board is:

1. Graduate GPA /MS doesn't count too much--your research experience will be more pertinent

2. UG GPA rules all and should be as High as possible. "Harder" majors get very little lee-way and should still be a minimum 3.6

3. "Banking" on a certain MCAT score, which I have not taken, is not a reliable option.

4. When applying, a wide-net is needed. I have residence within TX and therefore my primary scope/advantage would be to TX based schools.

Now what is peculiar about my case is that while my UG GPA (3.24/4.0) is low, I do have all A's in my premed prereqs which were taken before the academic masochism known as Engineering. In addition, I took a plethora of extra classes (Medical Physics) and therefore have a pretty substantial academic inertia that will be resistant to change--I imagine it would take a year or so of straight A's in 15+ hour classes to get to a 3.5

A post-bac is a possible option but I think it might be superfluous--I already hold a MS and I don't really need to enhance my pre-med credentials. On the other hand, if I do enroll in more UG classes, my UG GPA will be resistant to change and I'm not sure if it is wise to spend a year taking GPA-booster classes that are beyond the premed prereqs.

What would be the best course of action for some one in my position.

If anyone has relevant experience, advice, insight or just comments, it would be appreciated.

 

[sindadel]

I agree with the above. Are your EC's good? Clinical contact? Leadership? Community service?

Best of luck to you! Rock the MCAT. 🙂

 

[just one]

Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker who is seeking some advice for nontraditional (I'll be turning 25 this year!) medical admission.

I'm currently a MS thesis student within Biomedical Engineering (GPA 3.38/4.0) who is interested in Medical School. My passion stems from clinical/volunteering experience and primarily my medical research. My UG gpa is 3.24/4.0 as an engineering major.

From what I gathered from the FAQ/board is:

1. Graduate GPA /MS doesn't count too much--your research experience will be more pertinent

2. UG GPA rules all and should be as High as possible. "Harder" majors get very little lee-way and should still be a minimum 3.6

3. "Banking" on a certain MCAT score, which I have not taken, is not a reliable option.

4. When applying, a wide-net is needed. I have residence within TX and therefore my primary scope/advantage would be to TX based schools.

Now what is peculiar about my case is that while my UG GPA (3.24/4.0) is low, I do have all A's in my premed prereqs which were taken before the academic masochism known as Engineering. In addition, I took a plethora of extra classes (Medical Physics) and therefore have a pretty substantial academic inertia that will be resistant to change--I imagine it would take a year or so of straight A's in 15+ hour classes to get to a 3.5

A post-bac is a possible option but I think it might be superfluous--I already hold a MS and I don't really need to enhance my pre-med credentials. On the other hand, if I do enroll in more UG classes, my UG GPA will be resistant to change and I'm not sure if it is wise to spend a year taking GPA-booster classes that are beyond the premed prereqs.

What would be the best course of action for some one in my position.

If anyone has relevant experience, advice, insight or just comments, it would be appreciated.

You have posted one of the most realistic comments I have seen with that. Far too many people underestimate the MCAT when they have never even seen a practice exam.

 

[engineetor]

Thanks for the advice,

Clinical wise, I have been shadowing/volunteering in a hospital for over a year now.

The biggest problem I'm facing is with the UG GPA and that even a mere 9 hours next semester, which would be academic hell for a thesis, would not have a serious impact.

What is the best way to circumvent or alleviate said problem? I could shift focus to other aspects of my application, MCAT, ECs or Essays?

While I should cast a wide net, realistically is it worth applying out of state instead of focusing on instate residence?

 

[Nasrudin]

Thanks for the advice,

Clinical wise, I have been shadowing/volunteering in a hospital for over a year now.

The biggest problem I'm facing is with the UG GPA and that even a mere 9 hours next semester, which would be academic hell for a thesis, would not have a serious impact.

What is the best way to circumvent or alleviate said problem? I could shift focus to other aspects of my application, MCAT, ECs or Essays?

While I should cast a wide net, realistically is it worth applying out of state instead of focusing on instate residence?

Yes. Simple. Cause it comes down to a small group of people reading your primary. Convince them with something. Figure out what kind of game your gonna spit and come at them hard with whatever you got.

Thesis on masters program when said program is dragging you down mentally? Not so easily answered. You get some that say this and some that say that. >>>> and that might be the insight into why you should apply out of state if you can afford to. Cause you never know who the person on the other end of your first read through is gonna be.

The random assortment of human personality pleads a case for spreading out your app's. If I might add in an intuitive and common sense manner based on what kind of game you come with.

 

[BennieBlanco]

You have posted one of the most realistic comments I have seen with that. Far too many people underestimate the MCAT when they have never even seen a practice exam.

and far too many underestimate the power of the human will backed by persistence, passion, and dedication.

 

[demayette]

Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker who is seeking some advice for nontraditional (I'll be turning 25 this year!) medical admission.

I'm currently a MS thesis student within Biomedical Engineering (GPA 3.38/4.0) who is interested in Medical School. My passion stems from clinical/volunteering experience and primarily my medical research. My UG gpa is 3.24/4.0 as an engineering major.

From what I gathered from the FAQ/board is:

1. Graduate GPA /MS doesn't count too much--your research experience will be more pertinent

2. UG GPA rules all and should be as High as possible. "Harder" majors get very little lee-way and should still be a minimum 3.6

3. "Banking" on a certain MCAT score, which I have not taken, is not a reliable option.

4. When applying, a wide-net is needed. I have residence within TX and therefore my primary scope/advantage would be to TX based schools.

Now what is peculiar about my case is that while my UG GPA (3.24/4.0) is low, I do have all A's in my premed prereqs which were taken before the academic masochism known as Engineering. In addition, I took a plethora of extra classes (Medical Physics) and therefore have a pretty substantial academic inertia that will be resistant to change--I imagine it would take a year or so of straight A's in 15+ hour classes to get to a 3.5

A post-bac is a possible option but I think it might be superfluous--I already hold a MS and I don't really need to enhance my pre-med credentials. On the other hand, if I do enroll in more UG classes, my UG GPA will be resistant to change and I'm not sure if it is wise to spend a year taking GPA-booster classes that are beyond the premed prereqs.

What would be the best course of action for some one in my position.

If anyone has relevant experience, advice, insight or just comments, it would be appreciated.

Your GPA is a little bit lower for DO schools, however, if you do decent on the MCAT ie 28+, I believe you will have a great shot for admission.. take the DO route as it is your best option to become a doctor..

 

[20minutes]

If you have 4-5 years of UG classwork already, then the inertia of your current GPA means that even 2 more years of undergrad work (and why on earth would you do that?) wouldn't pull up your GPA to something that admissions committees will like to see.

2 straight years of 3.93 post-bac work took me from 2.93 to 3.45. I did it for another degree that was actually useful and it served as a great MCAT review (BS in molec bio). I'm spending the following year doing research using that degree before heading to med school .

 

[engineetor]

20minutes, wow that's quite impressive!

My only problem is that I'm not too sure if a post-bac program is for me. First, I would want to attend one within TX and as I said before, it would take some serious time/course load to roll my GPA uphill. Finally, if I bite the bullet and take quals at the end of this semester, I could possibly get a PhD in 2-3 years instead.

I think the general consensus is that

1. MCAT should be a focal point
2. I need to make sure my ECs and other application components compensate for grades.

Finally as a side rant, is there a particular reason why engineers don't get any lee-way when they apply to medical school? I know it varies from program to program but at my UG (a respectable engineering program), graduating with above a 3.7 put you in the top echelons of the class. Even at the graduate level, playing around with the Navier-Stokes equations, Fourier Laws or Transport phenomena is no joke.

 

[Pemberley]

Finally as a side rant, is there a particular reason why engineers don't get any lee-way when they apply to medical school? I know it varies from program to program but at my UG (a respectable engineering program), graduating with above a 3.7 put you in the top echelons of the class. Even at the graduate level, playing around with the Navier-Stokes equations, Fourier Laws or Transport phenomena is no joke.

As a physics major, I felt your pain. My guess is it's (1) bureaucratic inertia and (2) the impossibility of coming up with an objective, quantifiable ranking of difficulty of majors and schools. You'll find that in medical school, "fair" is often defined as "objective", with occasionally ludicrous results. Are all engineers to be given the same consideration? Do you give more to a Princeton physics major than a state school biophysics major? Just how much consideration do you give? There will inevitably be a complaint that such-and-such a major or school is being unfairly treated... if you're a bureaucrat, you tend to stay out of a mess like that.

Edit: perhaps even more importantly, (3) because, if you're an admissions guy, you feel no driving need or pressure to do so. You already have 30 times as many applicants with 3.8+ GPAs and 30+ MCATs as you have slots in your entering class. The fact that few or none of them are engineers probably doesn't ruin the taste of your morning coffee.

 

[engineetor]

Pem,

Condolences to your Physics major--Quantum kicked my arse. I understand your and agree with your assessment.

I don't want to make a new post but I have roughly 6-7 months before I plan to take my MCAT. As far as studying strategies go, should I do a little bit a day until 2-3 months before the exam or some other variant?

 

[boaz]

Pem,

Condolences to your Physics major--Quantum kicked my arse. I understand your and agree with your assessment.

I don't want to make a new post but I have roughly 6-7 months before I plan to take my MCAT. As far as studying strategies go, should I do a little bit a day until 2-3 months before the exam or some other variant?

Most schools take into account your major (as well as other factors such as school) and know good and well that 3.2 in engineering is incomparable to a 3.2 in, say, history. Having said that, taking a few upper division bio classes will serve you well, both in terms of GPA and MCAT. PS will probably be a breeze but be careful with VR. I'd start working on that now.

 

[Pemberley]

Pem,

Condolences to your Physics major--Quantum kicked my arse. I understand your and agree with your assessment.

I don't want to make a new post but I have roughly 6-7 months before I plan to take my MCAT. As far as studying strategies go, should I do a little bit a day until 2-3 months before the exam or some other variant?

No condolences were (quite) necessary -- I got in to 1 school, which is all you need. The good news is that, even though there's no systematic "adjustment" of GPAs, some individuals must look at records carefully enough to make individual allowances... I figure it must be so because I got interviews, and I never would have gotten interviews with a 3.1 if somebody hadn't been paying attention. 🙂 Hopefully you will, too.

There's a great "study habits of high MCAT scores" (not the exact title) thread somewhere (apologize for not linking, but I haven't looked at it in a while, so I don't remember where -- my guess is that it's stickied in the MCAT forum.) Go there for the best MCAT study advice to be had on SDN.

 

[da Vincis World]

While you may not get much leeway on your GPA due to the engineering degree, you can really use your engineering education to your advantage when writing your personal statement and/or during interviews. You need to really play up the problem solving involved in engineering. The algorithmic approach to problem solving seen in engineering translates well to medicine and this is the advantage that your engineering degree has over a typical biology degree. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS....it worked for me.

 

[engineetor]

Just resurrecting this topic.

Do you feel that it would be beneficial to take one or two UG biology classes next semester? I realize that it won't really make an impact on my GPA but maybe it will look better on my application?

 

[sindadel]

I certainly think it wouldn't hurt. If you make it through the auto cutoff, you want to look as good as possible. 🙂