The Effect of Undergrad and Rigor of Courses

[lrkoehle]

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even though you'd probably agree I'm smarter than you are.

Oh you don't have time for House. Dang, I have time to enjoy life and still achieve more than you? Wow, you're totally right for looking down on me for that point. 😉

I highly doubt I would ever agree you are smarter than me, but ok.

Did I say I don't have time for House? No, I just don't watch shows that are as stupid as that one. I hope to god you don't think that House is actually realistic (yes, I know you didn't ever say you did think it was), but based on the arrogance of your points you are probably stupid enough to think it is.

Hahaha, I don't go to Stanford, but I go to a top 5. And I don't need to take a course at whatever school you go to in order to know that my school makes it a lot harder to get good grades. It's like saying "you haven't touched my oven, how do you know that it gets hot when you turn it on."

Really? This is probably the stupidest thing you have said yet. You must be a complete ***** if you really think that you can make this assumption. Your stupidity continues to impress me. Oh and I guess I should add a to show that I am laughing at how stupid you clearly are.

You have no basis for me having no basis!

Okay this is getting kind of out of hand. I guess I'll just have to leave you guys to your own beliefs. You will never be able to convince me that a class at your school is on par with the classes on mine.

My basis is this: if it's hard for me, it's impossibly harder for most students. I've taken 18 college level courses (AP and community college) while in high school, and none them was anywhere close to the difficulty of a class I've taken at my university. I'd say one class here is about the same difficulty as 3 AP classes in high school.

No basis for you having no basis? Really? You said earlier that you don't have to take a class at another university to know yours is harder. That kind of indicates to me that you have never taken classes at another university, so you must have no basis for what you are saying.

If it's hard for you, it's impossibly harder for most students? Are you f***ing kiding me? You are so arrogant as to believe that you are so far above everyone else that something challenging for you is impossible for every one else? This statement again warrants me saying how your stupidity continues to impress me. How many hundreds or thousands of students have graduated with degrees in your major from your school in the past? Probably a lot, so it clearly can't be that impossible. It is after all only an undergraduate degree, and many, many people have gotten those before.

Your basis is having taken college level courses in high school????? I would certainly hope those are easier than classes at your university! I took dual enrollment and AP classes in high school, and guess what they were incredibly easy. If fact, all of high school was incredibly easy, so much so that I hated it and didn't bother trying. Three AP classes in high school would be like one university class? Oh my god, no freakin' way! Of course classes at the university level are harder than high school or community college. Once again, your stupidity continues to impress me.

I am going to guess you are either a freshman or sophomore, and that you probably did pretty well in high school. However, now that you are in college you are struggling, and the only way for you to rationalize it is to believe that the classes are just so incredibly hard that no one could ace them. Now, this may be incorrect, but that is my guess.

 

[witness23]

no way man, Fight Club was an overrated movie

 

[bigman225]

So let's say the average applicant from school A has an MCAT of 32, versus the average applicant from school B with an MCAT of 27. Do people think this is an OK way to compare the rigor of different schools? I'm just curious to hear thoughts.

NO. Interpret the GPA in terms of that individual's MCAT. Also, not all courses are created equal.

 

[guyski79]

NO. Interpret the GPA in terms of that individual's MCAT. Also, not all courses are created equal.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by that. How would you interpret the GPA in terms of the MCAT on an individual basis?

Sure, not all courses are created equal within a university, but wouldn't that also mean that not all courses are created equal between institutions? Could you clarify?

 

[virusgirl]

lrkoehle, I think shindotp is just baiting you because he's seen that it annoys you. Don't give him the satisfaction. I have no doubt that you're a smart guy -- and I don't even know where you went to school!

 

[bigman225]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by that. How would you interpret the GPA in terms of the MCAT on an individual basis?

Sure, not all courses are created equal within a university, but wouldn't that also mean that not all courses are created equal between institutions? Could you clarify?

I just don't think it is fair to lump everyone from the same school together regardless of course selection and performance on objective tests. I'm revealing personal bias to some extent on this topic (I scored highly on the MCAT/have a high GPA but come from a state college).

Research has shown that combining GPA/MCAT in a predictive algorithm is much more effective than GPA/Ugrad and no less effective than GPA/MCAT/Ugrad.

 

[lrkoehle]

lrkoehle, I think shindotp is just baiting you because he's seen that it annoys you. Don't give him the satisfaction. I have no doubt that you're a smart guy -- and I don't even know where you went to school!

I'm not really annoyed by shindotp. I actually find it quite entertaining how absurd the things he is saying are. I don't think it would be smart of me to be annoyed by a freshman or sophomore, who hasn't even taken the MCAT. Regardless, I have a biophysical chem test monday, so I am going to focus my energy on that instead.

 

[shindotp]

I'm not really annoyed by shindotp. I actually find it quite entertaining how absurd the things he is saying are. I don't think it would be smart of me to be annoyed by a freshman or sophomore, who hasn't even taken the MCAT. Regardless, I have a biophysical chem test monday, so I am going to focus my energy on that instead.

LMAO!!!! HAHA

Oh yeah, SURE you're not bothered. You only wrote a page rant calling me stupid repeatedly because you have so much time, right? HAHA, you should have watched House instead (btw, not realistic but definitely the best show!). Sure, I believe you when you say you're not bothered 😉.

Okay, I believe you Mr. Arizona State University. You are much, much smarter than I (even though every mutual person we would ever meet would never agree to that, including probably your parents). 🙂

Btw, if college courses in HS were so easy, why'd ya get a C in one of them?

Oh, and just to clarify, no I'm not really struggling (my GPA is actually higher than yours, and I'm coming from a top 5 that has strict grade deflation.... I guess even if top 5 courses were equally hard to get A's in - which they are definitely not - you still can't say crap).

 

[Depakote]

Lets keep the discussion in this thread civil, thanks.

 

[Greonis]

lrkoehle, I think shindotp is just baiting you because he's seen that it annoys you. Don't give him the satisfaction. I have no doubt that you're a smart guy -- and I don't even know where you went to school!

👍

Do not feed the troll! At this point, the ignorance in his posts is clearly nothing more than bait. Having that in mind will help to keep this thread more civil.

 

[HPSPpayissues]

I went to one of the best state schools in the nation, and I had 1500+ SAT I, 2200+ SAT II ( 700+ on three subjects) and over 45 units of AP/college credits. I am just wondering, how many of you ivy kids had better stats than me.
If you went to the ivy league and had lower stats than me, you surely didn't get in, because you deserved it. More likely, you had some type of connection like George Bush.

 

[HPSPpayissues]

Also, I have met a few people in my school with perfect stats and great EC's that did not get into any IVY schools, while I personally know some not-so-bright people that did.

 

[Excelsius]

The discussion has drifted from constructive consideration as to how it applies to medschool to who's smarter. Please note that this discussion has nothing to do with who is smarter or who got a better education. As some pointed out, it is simply about maximizing your chances for medschool admission by playing the game. It does not mean that low rank school is congruent to poor education. Nor does it mean that you can't be as successful as someone from a top undergrad if you go to a low ranked school. The point here is that if you are still deciding about where you are going to transfer (or start your undergrad), it will be better for you to know that going to a better ranked school might provide you a bit of an edge, however large or small. Another goal is this - if you are in a lower ranked school, it will help you if you either major in a rigorous science major OR take many science courses, preferably honors, so that you negate any prejudice about the rigor of your science schoolwork.

Also, both extremes are wrong. Claiming that lower ranked schools are just as good as top schools is incorrect. Nor is it correct to say that all top school students are better than the ones in a lower ranked school. Teachers are individuals. You can come across very strict ones even in a place like CC. I have taken courses at four different schools, including many courses at a CC, some at a top 5, and the rest in a UC system. In CC you can get more attention from the teacher, but the cost is that you have to work really hard in some of the courses to make it. Some teachers will not give a single A if no one in the class performs according to the established standard. This means that the class competes with the UC students, NOT with one another. Most departments are in direct communication with the UCs and make sure that all the courses are as rigorous or more rigorous than the UC. The result is that there is little difference between the courses I took at CC and the ones in UC. Granted, not all CCs are rigorous and there lies the problem - there is no ranking system adcoms can use to disctinguish one CC from another and this is one reason why CC is a disadvantage.

A little humbleness can go a long way. If you think you're very intelligent just because you are attending a top school, come back and report in 15 years. See if you do any better than the rest of the premeds you are trying to put down here because of their school status. At least an average intelligence is necessary to understand that the status of the school has nothing to do with how any individual student is smarter than another individual student at any school. If you cannot understand that simple fact, here is some help: the Sign of Times on CNN was a an image of an MIT graduate holding a sign on a street saying that he is looking for work. The PBS special on Doctors' Diaries tracked seven or so Harvard Med graduates from medschool all the way till they were in their 60s. Take a look at what they were able to achieve in their lives - some have destroyed lives, some have no families, some are lonely, and some are not even in the medical field - and see if you can still convince yourself that your road to success is a name of a school. I hope that the last documentary will alleviate some of the extreme egos.

The school name is simply a means to an end that might or might not matter in this difficult journey. It is not an end in itself. Thanks to the person who posted that study into the effect of the school rank.

 

[lrkoehle]

The discussion has drifted from constructive consideration as to how it applies to medschool to who's smarter. Please note that this discussion has nothing to do with who is smarter or who got a better education. As some pointed out, it is simply about maximizing your chances for medschool admission by playing the game. It does not mean that low rank school is congruent to poor education. Nor does it mean that you can't be as successful as someone from a top undergrad if you go to a low ranked school. The point here is that if you are still deciding about where you are going to transfer (or start your undergrad), it will be better for you to know that going to a better ranked school might provide you a bit of an edge, however large or small. Another goal is this - if you are in a lower ranked school, it will help you if you either major in a rigorous science major OR take many science courses, preferably honors, so that you negate any prejudice about the rigor of your science schoolwork.

Also, both extremes are wrong. Claiming that lower ranked schools are just as good as top schools is incorrect. Nor is it correct to say that all top school students are better than the ones in a lower ranked school. Teachers are individuals. You can come across very strict ones even in a place like CC. I have taken courses at four different schools, including many courses at a CC, some at a top 5, and the rest in a UC system. In CC you can get more attention from the teacher, but the cost is that you have to work really hard in some of the courses to make it. Some teachers will not give a single A if no one in the class performs according to the established standard. This means that the class competes with the UC students, NOT with one another. Most departments are in direct communication with the UCs and make sure that all the courses are as rigorous or more rigorous than the UC. The result is that there is little difference between the courses I took at CC and the ones in UC. Granted, not all CCs are rigorous and there lies the problem - there is no ranking system adcoms can use to disctinguish one CC from another and this is one reason why CC is a disadvantage.

A little humbleness can go a long way. If you think you're very intelligent just because you are attending a top school, come back and report in 15 years. See if you do any better than the rest of the premeds you are trying to put down here because of their school status. At least an average intelligence is necessary to understand that the status of the school has nothing to do with how any individual student is smarter than another individual student at any school. If you cannot understand that simple fact, here is some help: the Sign of Times on CNN was a an image of an MIT graduate holding a sign on a street saying that he is looking for work. The PBS special on Doctors' Diaries tracked seven or so Harvard Med graduates from medschool all the way till they were in their 60s. Take a look at what they were able to achieve in their lives - some have destroyed lives, some have no families, some are lonely, and some are not even in the medical field - and see if you can still convince yourself that your road to success is a name of a school. I hope that the last documentary will alleviate some of the extreme egos.

The school name is simply a means to an end that might or might not matter in this difficult journey. It is not an end in itself. Thanks to the person who posted that study into the effect of the school rank.

👍

shindotp - come talk to me in 15 years, perhaps by then you will have learned how to read (I did not care about high school, hence the C). Oh and to get away from the pointless argument about who is smarter, intelligence is only a very small part of being a good doctor. Interpersonal skills are much more important, so maybe you can learn some.

 

[lrkoehle]

Oh, and just to clarify, no I'm not really struggling (my GPA is actually higher than yours, and I'm coming from a top 5 that has strict grade deflation.... I guess even if top 5 courses were equally hard to get A's in - which they are definitely not - you still can't say crap).

Come talk to me after P. chem, if you even have to take it. That is where one of two B's at my university have come from. The GPA on MDapps is my projected AMCAS GPA, which includes grades from high school when I just showed up to class and did nothing else.

 

[JennaQ]

You know people wouldn't be fighting if they actually enjoyed what they were studying :x

If institutions were solely created for the purpose of teaching students, and students honestly attended institutions for learning something they were interested in, then exams wouldn't be necessary. But human nature and capitalism always twist the ideal. And breeds useless competition and pride for pedigree.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

I think we are all *****s for going/wanting to go into medicine...with that said

EVerybody has AIDS.!

 

[JennaQ]

I heard about the multiplier system being used that GeraldMonroe brought up from my friend who had a relative serve as a medical admissions member. But he really didn't emphasize details or how community colleges are rated compared to other institutions. All in all, I don't see why people would worry about it. There's too much to do in college other than just worrying about whether or not your GPA is as academically rigorous as other schools. But I'm only stating the obvious. I love SDN though for the competitive aura it has around scores. It actually makes me get up in the morning and try to hit a couple more pages of reading.

 

[Quadratic]

I guess I just had a different experience than most of you had. Like I said, I went to undergrad at a top 10, took both orgos at what I would say is a top-30 school, and a few others at a city-school. My undergrad was much more difficult and competitive, even though it is a "big research" university. .

Nah man don't worry about them. See what they don't understand is that the actual chemistry changes with the university! You and I know that LiAlH4 reduces everything, but the lower tier? pfft.....