The feeling of just wanting to get residency over with

[Retrograde_Nail]

You just described less than 1% of podiatrists.

Hospital employment is nothing like residency. I don’t even have to put in my own NPO orders on inpatients I consult on. Generally, an MRI has been ordered and completed (when needed) before I’m even consulted. I don’t need to make abx recs. Hospitalists and PAs do all of that for me. I can get an OR over my lunch break for add on inpatient cases virtually any time I want. I work 4 days a week. Even hospital jobs where folks purposefully choose to take more call and work more days/hours, so that they can make more money, are nothing like residency.



Nah

Says the guy who works in a rural area.

Come on

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[HeySister]

Gas and open fx are only podiometric surgical emergencies...
What school didn't tell ya is that, at most hospitals, both of those can be turfed to hospital FTE pod or real MD gen/vasc/ortho surgeons (prn basis).

The exception would be IHS podiatry, where you had better get your butt to the hospital for those calls and wait 2 hours for anesthesia to arrive... and you may need to do the case, if that locum CRNA cannot find a reason the patient is too risky and needs to get sent out.

Just curious, why is this

 

[Weirdy]

You just described less than 1% of podiatrists.

Hospital employment is nothing like residency. I don’t even have to put in my own NPO orders on inpatients I consult on. Generally, an MRI has been ordered and completed (when needed) before I’m even consulted. I don’t need to make abx recs. Hospitalists and PAs do all of that for me. I can get an OR over my lunch break for add on inpatient cases virtually any time I want. I work 4 days a week. Even hospital jobs where folks purposefully choose to take more call and work more days/hours, so that they can make more money, are nothing like residency.

I had to do all of that and more during residency.
Good practice for residency and probably dependent on what stage of life we're at but reading this blows my mind.

Edit: oh you're hospital employed. Makes more sense.

 

[dtrack22]

Says the guy who works in a rural area.

Come on

As a hospital employed podiatrist how often do you “pre-round” on your patients before you round on them again?

How many times has the ED consulted you to “lay eyes” on a wound or a fracture? What percentage of closed ankle fractures do they call you on to come close reduce?

How many different hospitals do you cover inpatient consults on and how many different hospitals do you operate at?

I know the answers to those questions. And if you compare those answers to how you (and most of us) would have answered those questions in residency, then my point is obvious. Covering clinics/call/cases as an attending is very different than doing so as a resident. Even when “hospital employed”

 

[Feli]

Just curious, why is this

For IHS, you're rural and the ortho/vasc/gen (if you even have the first two) are usually even lazier than the podiatry... they likely won't even answer if you call them. So, you basically have to do a fair bit of on-call ankle disartic, major fx/crush/etc trauma, lots of farm injury gas amp I&Ds, basic abscess open ray or TMAs, etc etc (some IHS have pods do BKA). And I suppose you could still refuse them when on call by saying past your skill or medically unstable, but assuming it's not too hard of a surgery and they're stable for anesth, you are pretty much dooming the pts by not doing them since the xfer is often 2-3+ hours. But yeah, it is gas city up in dere with all the diabetes and farms and ranches.

The good thing in that govt work situ is that you're basically suit-proof (good for skilled IHS pods trying hard cases, bad for pts with regard to numerous hack IHS pods/MDs doing any type of cases). The tort reform limits things severely since it's govt taxes paying for pt care and govt taxes also paying docs/hospitals. The govt bubble settlements are capped really low compared to typical civilian med mal.

Some of the IHS also pay decent now (by podiatry standards), esp if RRA qual/cert or expected to be doing those cases. They're mainly just trying to use DPMs to take some of the calls off of gen or ortho surg (who are much harder to recruit and retain for the paltry VA/IHS wage scale). Like most DPM hospital jobs, it's the classic case of "just because you're necessary doesn't mean you're important."

...The VA pod would have this too (pod can't play inept to dump on MD/DO surgeons as those docs are quite slothful themselves)... but those VAs are in metros or at least mid-size cities where there are plenty of other private/univ hospital pods/docs nearby to turf to.

 

[MicroPod]

At the VA hospital we did rotations at in my residency, we found out the vascular surgeons (3 of them) had two clinic days and were seeing 3-4 patients those days. Then they had either admin time or surgery days for the rest. They were only doing an average of about 1 case a week though. Any time we referred to them they either said patient ok to heal or they would recommend BKA, never offered revasc.
Meanwhile we were seeing 40-70 patients/day in podiatry clinic and had several cases a week between our attendings. Try and guess who was being paid more.

 

[air bud]

At the VA hospital we did rotations at in my residency, we found out the vascular surgeons (3 of them) had two clinic days and were seeing 3-4 patients those days. Then they had either admin time or surgery days for the rest. They were only doing an average of about 1 case a week though. Any time we referred to them they either said patient ok to heal or they would recommend BKA, never offered revasc.
Meanwhile we were seeing 40-70 patients/day in podiatry clinic and had several cases a week between our attendings. Try and guess who was being paid more.

Yeah but 50 to 60 of those patients were 💅

 

[podwho]

Going back to the original question......
Life doesn't start when you become an attending. Residency life can be great if you make it so, as with life. Not having someone to answer to is probably the best part but even then you might land a job where your still treated like any employee. But make no mistake, delayed gratification is def worth it. I see collegues out of training absolutely killing it in terms of cases, quality of life, etc... You might be the most useless doctor but your still a "doctor" in most circles and no one can take that away.

Having said that your still a podiatrist, you knew that when you applied and couldn't get into MD. Move on with life already or quit.... or complain like many on these forums do while still making lots of money lol

 

[air bud]

Going back to the original question......
Life doesn't start when you become an attending. Residency life can be great if you make it so, as with life. Not having someone to answer to is probably the best part but even then you might land a job where your still treated like any employee. But make no mistake, delayed gratification is def worth it. I see collegues out of training absolutely killing it in terms of cases, quality of life, etc... You might be the most useless doctor but your still a "doctor" in most circles and no one can take that away.

Having said that your still a podiatrist, you knew that when you applied and couldn't get into MD. Move on with life already or quit.... or complain like many on these forums do while still making lots of money lol

Every word in this post is factual

 

[Feli]

... Not having someone to answer to is probably the best part ...

Yes, this is the ultimate.^^

Nothing is worse than a day trucked with work... staffing you can't control... and then admins or owner or clipboard nurse or whatever giving bogus criticism or directives... and then be perpetually hunting for new/better job also. Ppl act like only PP owners have to do admin stuff, but any doc tries to train staff and adjust supplies and control refers/pts type and adjust their schedule. Owners are just able to actually do it.

It is just craaazy to be 40, 50 or even 60+ years old and calling another man your boss, commuting and dressing and doing things when and how and where they tell you to... asking them for more money. Hospital DPMs or any employed pod making 300k+ without totally killing themself on hours, I sorta get that if the job is not bad... but that's a small % of DPMs. What I have no idea of is how so many guys do the associate/supergroup DPM thing their whole career. "No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

It is always satisfying for me to unsubscribe from recruiter emails, order supplies or hire/train/raise employees without asking anyone, change policies or office schedule, take vaca or pay for CME without any approval besides my own, all that stuff.

...You might be the most useless doctor but your still a "doctor" in most circles and no one can take that away...

You should trademark office this one - and quick. One of the pod schools will copy it to use it in their recruiting.

 

[Robin-jay]

I think a major component is that you feel like you're starting a new job all the time (which is stressful).

Whenever I go to a new physicians clinic or work under a new physician in OR, new OR team, new location, etc...it feels stressful all over again.

If I went to the same hospital or same clinic over and over again, there would be some solace in routine and familiarity.

I can tell this is the case as I break in to more familiar territory, I face a less stressful mindset.

 

[Weirdy]

I think a major component is that you feel like you're starting a new job all the time (which is stressful).

Whenever I go to a new physicians clinic or work under a new physician in OR, new OR team, new location, etc...it feels stressful all over again.

If I went to the same hospital or same clinic over and over again, there would be some solace in routine and familiarity.

I can tell this is the case as I break in to more familiar territory, I face a less stressful mindset.

You realize you posted this original thread right? Are you replying to yourself?
Is residency really this big of a revelation for you?

 

[Robin-jay]

You realize you posted this original thread right? Are you replying to yourself?
Is residency really this big of a revelation for you?

Of course. Residency is just a lot, as expected.

 

[HeySister]

I think a major component is that you feel like you're starting a new job all the time (which is stressful).

Whenever I go to a new physicians clinic or work under a new physician in OR, new OR team, new location, etc...it feels stressful all over again.

If I went to the same hospital or same clinic over and over again, there would be some solace in routine and familiarity.

I can tell this is the case as I break in to more familiar territory, I face a less stressful mindset.

I did not like this either but it trains you to learn how to deal with people. I got a lot better at talking to people I did not know and approaching people for what I needed. Find the positives in this unusual time in your life. It can be good to be out of your comfort zone so often.

 

[Robin-jay]

I did not like this either but it trains you to learn how to deal with people. I got a lot better at talking to people I did not know and approaching people for what I needed. Find the positives in this unusual time in your life. It can be good to be out of your comfort zone so often.

While that's a useful skill, I feel like that's much more emphasized than I wanted.

When I shadowed podiatrists, they only talked to their small private practice staff and patients.

I was not thrilled about the hospital inpatient residency life, where you have to talk to everyone all the time about anything and everything. Gives me a headache, even if I'm fine at it.

It's just strange to me that I have to go through so many barriers to simply be a podiatrist....

 

[Weirdy]

It's just strange to me that I have to go through so many barriers to simply be a podiatrist....

Would you rather be an ill-trained one?

Who do you think you will have to communicate with when you get out to your attending job and a patient of yours needs to get admitted to the hospital?
How do you think you are going to land your job? Will one magically appear for you without asking?
And if you are privileged with a connection to create your job straight out of residency- who is going to facilitate all of that on your behalf?

I've been an a**hat to you so I apologize....sort of. But there are things you are doing right now, which suck, which serve a purpose even after you finish residency.

You are 2 months into 3 years.
Some of it is absolute scut work and unnecessary, but for the most part you will be surprised how often you end up using the same soft and hard skills you picked up during residency in the real world.

You don't know what you don't know and that's fine.
But be a sponge.
I still have a long way to go too.

 

[Feli]

I did not like this either but it trains you to learn how to deal with people. I got a lot better at talking to people I did not know and approaching people for what I needed. Find the positives in this unusual time in your life. It can be good to be out of your comfort zone so often.

Patient: [generally funny/nice, but talks about some serious health problems he's having, a death in his fam]
Me: Well, seems like you're staying in a good mood and trying to do well. You have a good attitude.
Patient: Hey... sure doesn't do me any good or help anyone else if I complain and have a bad attitude.

 

[Robin-jay]

Would you rather be an ill-trained one?

Who do you think you will have to communicate with when you get out to your attending job and a patient of yours needs to get admitted to the hospital?
How do you think you are going to land your job? Will one magically appear for you without asking?
And if you are privileged with a connection to create your job straight out of residency- who is going to facilitate all of that on your behalf?

I've been an a**hat to you so I apologize....sort of. But there are things you are doing right now, which suck, which serve a purpose even after you finish residency.

You are 2 months into 3 years.
Some of it is absolute scut work and unnecessary, but for the most part you will be surprised how often you end up using the same soft and hard skills you picked up during residency in the real world.

You don't know what you don't know and that's fine.
But be a sponge.
I still have a long way to go too.

I feel like dentists do more procedures out the gate that take more precision than podiatry, yet they are somehow able to survive without residency just fine. Are dentists training considered "ill-trained" then?

Do I really need a 3 year residency to do basic soft tissue surgeries? Not really.

Dentists don't have to scrub in oral surgery cases and be 1st assist for 3 years to become a general dentists. I don't know why we have to participate in so many advanced cases to become competent in the general ones.

It just feels like residency is massive overkill for what most podiatrists plan on doing.

 

[Weirdy]

I feel like dentists do more procedures out the gate that take more precision than podiatry, yet they are somehow able to survive without residency just fine. Are dentists training considered "ill-trained" then?

I will counter this with have you seen the admission standards and stats for incoming dental students?
Have you seen their boards pass rates for accredited programs?
When you have standards that are that strict with that caliber of student- would you also assume they can do what they do and "survive without residency?"

Now look at your own podiatry class and journey. Can you say the same for every 4th year podiatry student graduating school? Would you trust your own classmates to cut on you or your family? It is not equivalent. The standards are not the same. The training during school is not the same.

Look at the left 3rd row for 1st time fail rates in accredited programs. https://www.ada.org/-/media/project...a-org/files/about/annual-reports/ar_jcnde.pdf
We joke about podiatry school board failure rates all the time, but again- do you see the difference?

I get what you are saying. A general, minimal major surgery podiatrist, does not need a 3 year "surgical" residency.
Which goes back to beating the dead horse of if all podiatry residencies across the entire United States were of the same quality, caliber, and standard- we would not need to worry about telling you to get the best training as you possibly could just to graduate and do less intensive stuff.

 

[heybrother]

I was told a story once that claimed forever ago podiatry students were much more operatively involved as students ie. trying to get a certain number of bunions, hammertoes, etc. That would have much more closely resembled a dental model of education ie. dentals students have to get a certain number of fillings and crowns and what not.

No idea how true it was. As a student and resident I watched a lot of attendings do a lot of cases with very trivial involvement resident involvement. Did students actually have to gradate with a certain number of cases? Did they really just shadow? No idea.

I've written it on here before - I think there should be FAR more focus on student hand skills than there currently is. It does not even necessarily have to be on humans or cadavers. I've told this story before - my program was in to hand-prep of the 1st MPJ with a rongeur. There are joints on pigs feet that can be dissected out and hand prepped if you have a rongeur lying around. Start working on how you handle bone, even if its pig bone on the weekend, and I think you'll show up looking stronger on Monday.

 

[air bud]

I was told a story once that claimed forever ago podiatry students were much more operatively involved as students ie. trying to get a certain number of bunions, hammertoes, etc. That would have much more closely resembled a dental model of education ie. dentals students have to get a certain number of fillings and crowns and what not.

No idea how true it was. As a student and resident I watched a lot of attendings do a lot of cases with very trivial involvement resident involvement. Did students actually have to gradate with a certain number of cases? Did they really just shadow? No idea.

I've written it on here before - I think there should be FAR more focus on student hand skills than there currently is. It does not even necessarily have to be on humans or cadavers. I've told this story before - my program was in to hand-prep of the 1st MPJ with a rongeur. There are joints on pigs feet that can be dissected out and hand prepped if you have a rongeur lying around. Start working on how you handle bone, even if its pig bone on the weekend, and I think you'll show up looking stronger on Monday.

Video games bro first person shooter.

 

[icebreaker32]

I feel like dentists do more procedures out the gate that take more precision than podiatry, yet they are somehow able to survive without residency just fine. Are dentists training considered "ill-trained" then?

Do I really need a 3 year residency to do basic soft tissue surgeries? Not really.

Dentists don't have to scrub in oral surgery cases and be 1st assist for 3 years to become a general dentists. I don't know why we have to participate in so many advanced cases to become competent in the general ones.

It just feels like residency is massive overkill for what most podiatrists plan on doing.

With nursing and midlevels having a good job market and ROI there is increased pressure on our profession to potential quality applicants to have a job market and income that rewards the extra length and expense of our training.

Is podiatry worth the gamble? That is an individual decision, but it seems more are deciding no.

Our leaders are focused on an "enrollment crisis" when the reduced enrollments are the actual answer to most of our profession's largest problems.

 

[Robin-jay]

I will counter this with have you seen the admission standards and stats for incoming dental students?
Have you seen their boards pass rates for accredited programs?
When you have standards that are that strict with that caliber of student- would you also assume they can do what they do and "survive without residency?"

Now look at your own podiatry class and journey. Can you say the same for every 4th year podiatry student graduating school? Would you trust your own classmates to cut on you or your family? It is not equivalent. The standards are not the same. The training during school is not the same.
View attachment 391569
Look at the left 3rd row for 1st time fail rates in accredited programs. https://www.ada.org/-/media/project...a-org/files/about/annual-reports/ar_jcnde.pdf
We joke about podiatry school board failure rates all the time, but again- do you see the difference?

I get what you are saying. A general, minimal major surgery podiatrist, does not need a 3 year "surgical" residency.
Which goes back to beating the dead horse of if all podiatry residencies across the entire United States were of the same quality, caliber, and standard- we would not need to worry about telling you to get the best training as you possibly could just to graduate and do less intensive stuff.

I'm not convinced the gap between dental students and podiatry students is that large. I think you have adequately weeded out most podiatrists by year 4 due to boards, classes, and other things. Remember, many podiatry schools have MDs/DPMs or DO/DPM take courses together. By 4th year, podiatry students shouldn't be too far behind their dental school counterparts.

 

[Treaty of Dorsi]

I'm not convinced the gap between dental students and podiatry students is that large. I think you have adequately weeded out most podiatrists by year 4 due to boards, classes, and other things. Remember, many podiatry schools have MDs/DPMs or DO/DPM take courses together. By 4th year, podiatry students shouldn't be too far behind their dental school counterparts.

Eh I know of some people that literally got pushed through podiatry school that I would never trust to do any type of office procedure on a family member let alone surgery.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

We need USMLE styled questions on the APMLE, not basic "what color is a banana" type questions. Competency is what will bring parity to podiatry.

 

[Robin-jay]

Eh I know of some people that literally got pushed through podiatry school that I would never trust to do any type of office procedure on a family member let alone surgery.

I know people who graduate DO and MD school who I wouldn't want handling a scalpel. I only know a couple dental students and they seem fine so I can't include them.

 

[Treaty of Dorsi]

I know people who graduate DO and MD school who I wouldn't want handling a scalpel. I only know a couple dental students and they seem fine so I can't include them.

It’s not the same as they have options. They aren’t forced into a 3 year surgical residency (not standardized either) with the false sense of confidence that they can do surgery on anyone and everyone

 

[Feli]

I'm not convinced the gap between dental students and podiatry students is that large. I think you have adequately weeded out most podiatrists by year 4 due to boards, classes, and other things. ...

EVERY dental school accept would've been accepted to podiatry school. Every single one.
(Converse is not true at all.)

..."not convinced"???

I know people who graduate DO and MD school who I wouldn't want handling a scalpel....

EVERY medical school student accepted in USA would've been accepted to podiatry schools, with scholarships. All grads of medical school would've been at or near top of any podiatry graduating class.

...It's ridiculous to use "I think" and anecdotes to ignore the facts. Yet you do it repeatedly.

Podiatry has some really good training programs and some hardworking and talented people, but our talent and training and saturation overall are not good. That's why the 4 new podiatry schools in 20 years have us with a very poor ROI... and on the verge of another residency shortage and/or "admissions crisis." Podiatry schools were already scraping the bottom of the barrel for acceptances, and we already had too many practicing DPMs and too few good residencies even before adding over 200 student seats/yr.

It's a profession with limited strong training options and many flaws. It can be fair or even good, but its always been a make-your-own-luck career. Pretending it's something it's not is pointless. Training matters... very much. Even then, saturation and debt are very sizable hurdles looming.

 

[I Drink Riesling]

Eh I know of some people that literally got pushed through podiatry school that I would never trust to do any type of office procedure on a family member let alone surgery.

Exactly what I was thinking. I would never let Treaty even cut my toenails.

 

[Robin-jay]

EVERY dental school accept would've been accepted to podiatry school. Every single one.
(Converse is not true at all.)

..."not convinced"???


EVERY medical school student accepted in USA would've been accepted to podiatry schools, with scholarships. All grads of medical school would've been at or near top of any podiatry graduating class.

...It's ridiculous to use "I think" and anecdotes to ignore the facts. Yet you do it repeatedly.

Podiatry has some really good training programs and some hardworking and talented people, but our talent and training and saturation overall are not good. That's why the 4 new podiatry schools in 20 years have us with a very poor ROI... and on the verge of another residency shortage and/or "admissions crisis." Podiatry schools were already scraping the bottom of the barrel for acceptances, and we already had too many practicing DPMs and too few good residencies even before adding over 200 student seats/yr.

It's a profession with limited strong training options and many flaws. It can be fair or even good, but its always been a make-your-own-luck career. Pretending it's something it's not is pointless. Training matters... very much. Even then, saturation and debt are very sizable hurdles looming.

DO students are not that far above podiatry students.

MD students at a mid tier to elite tier are definitely better.

Dental students are a mix.

We are giving too much credit to dental and DO students. I'm not even convinced many of them could earn a PhD in chemistry. However, MD students who went to mid-top MD school are admittedly on a different level than pod, DO, and DDS students.

But I don't know why 4th year pods, 4th year DDS, and 4th year DO students aren't all pretty similar. They pass inferior boards to USMLE, pass similar medical school rigorous courses, and overall have a pretty similar schedule and expectation.

I do agree that I wouldn't become a podiatry student because ROI is such trash these days. Even way more than 5-10 years ago. If I had to start podiatry school now and do it again, I wouldn't because tuition is insane these days.

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

DO students are not that far above podiatry students.

MD students at a mid tier to elite tier are definitely better.

Dental students are a mix.

We are giving too much credit to dental and DO students. I'm not even convinced many of them could earn a PhD in chemistry. However, MD students who went to mid-top MD school are admittedly on a different level than pod, DO, and DDS students.

But I don't know why 4th year pods, 4th year DDS, and 4th year DO students aren't all pretty similar. They pass inferior boards to USMLE, pass similar medical school rigorous courses, and overall have a pretty similar schedule and expectation.

 

[footshazam]

DO students are not that far above podiatry students.

MD students at a mid tier to elite tier are definitely better.

Dental students are a mix.

We are giving too much credit to dental and DO students. I'm not even convinced many of them could earn a PhD in chemistry. However, MD students who went to mid-top MD school are admittedly on a different level than pod, DO, and DDS students.

But I don't know why 4th year pods, 4th year DDS, and 4th year DO students aren't all pretty similar. They pass inferior boards to USMLE, pass similar medical school rigorous courses, and overall have a pretty similar schedule and expectation.

I do agree that I wouldn't become a podiatry student because ROI is such trash these days. Even way more than 5-10 years ago. If I had to start podiatry school now and do it again, I wouldn't because tuition is insane these days.

I would have to agree with you for once. I don’t care for how some people in the forum downplay their own ability and other pod student’s abilities to stand toe to toe with MD students. I think a lot of people wind up in podiatry school only because the MCAT holds them back and they decide to not pursue the test again. I think a lot of people in podiatry school could go to medical school and do well with no problems. Just my opinion.

 

[Weirdy]

Agree to disagree. At least we are openly discussing this.

 

[Hybrocure]

Assuming you didn’t already go to a pod school that has DOs integrated, because if you did, you’d know how foolish it is to say any pod can do what they do, wait until you go on off service rotations in residency with DO residents or students

You’ll see the difference.

Yeah maybe you can suture better but how about interpreting that EKG or reading that chest X-ray? Abdominal CT?

Bet you don’t even know what to listen for with a stethoscope.

Half the time they’ll suture and surgical assist better than you too. And they don’t even want a surgical specialty.

 

[Hybrocure]

I would have to agree with you for once. I don’t care for how some people in the forum downplay their own ability and other pod student’s abilities to stand toe to toe with MD students. I think a lot of people wind up in podiatry school only because the MCAT holds them back and they decide to not pursue the test again. I think a lot of people in podiatry school could go to medical school and do well with no problems. Just my opinion.

Not everyone wants to be an MD. Podiatry shouldn’t be a fallback for MD/DO failures. You should go into it if you want to do it from the start.

Albeit, these days I think it’s a crazy idea. But back when I applied - it seemed like a good one.

 

[Forcewielder]

DO students are not that far above podiatry students.

MD students at a mid tier to elite tier are definitely better.

Dental students are a mix.

We are giving too much credit to dental and DO students. I'm not even convinced many of them could earn a PhD in chemistry. However, MD students who went to mid-top MD school are admittedly on a different level than pod, DO, and DDS students.

But I don't know why 4th year pods, 4th year DDS, and 4th year DO students aren't all pretty similar. They pass inferior boards to USMLE, pass similar medical school rigorous courses, and overall have a pretty similar schedule and expectation.

I do agree that I wouldn't become a podiatry student because ROI is such trash these days. Even way more than 5-10 years ago. If I had to start podiatry school now and do it again, I wouldn't because tuition is insane these days.

Definitely don't agree. Look at average matriculation stats for DO schools vs DPM. Also, PhD in Chemistry? Really? That just has to do with persistence, not intelligence, and even then the average pre-professional was way smarter and more motivated than the average student going the PhD route at my university.

(Totally side note: I just learned that my state recently started offering an automatic acceptance to rural county students to the state allopathic school with a minimum GPA and 50th percentile MCAT if you apply through this program. While good in theory, I think merit should win out over what county you are from)

 

[Forcewielder]

Not everyone wants to be an MD. Podiatry shouldn’t be a fallback for MD/DO failures. You should go into it if you want to do it from the start.

Albeit, these days I think it’s a crazy idea. But back when I applied - it seemed like a good one.

That's where I was. I had the ability to go DO or to a state allopathic school but chose to go DPM. I'd NEVER recommend it for anyone asking nowadays haha

 

[Robin-jay]

Definitely don't agree. Look at average matriculation stats for DO schools vs DPM. Also, PhD in Chemistry? Really? That just has to do with persistence, not intelligence, and even then the average pre-professional was way smarter and more motivated than the average student going the PhD route at my university.

(Totally side note: I just learned that my state recently started offering an automatic acceptance to rural county students to the state allopathic school with a minimum GPA and 50th percentile MCAT if you apply through this program. While good in theory, I think merit should win out over what county you are from)

I'm going to disagree that many professional students can get a PhD in something like chemistry, physics, engineering, etc.

There aren't multiple choice questions everyone has the answers to like in podiatry school. they actually have to use their brain to solve equations on paper, have to use their brain to come up with novel research, etc.

That's an interesting side note though.

Not everyone wants to be an MD. Podiatry shouldn’t be a fallback for MD/DO failures. You should go into it if you want to do it from the start.

Albeit, these days I think it’s a crazy idea. But back when I applied - it seemed like a good one.

I was duped into thinking you could make 200k in podiatry in private practice working 40-50 hours a week, without fully understanding that getting to that place is way harder than it looks.

I underestimated what a drag residency is. If I had known how volatile residency life was, I probably wouldn't have chose podiatry. The schooling process was as expected, not many qualms about that. but residency, tiring and frustrating all the time. Waking up at 4:45 am to surgeries is trash.

 

[air bud]

I'm going to disagree that many professional students can get a PhD in something like chemistry, physics, engineering, etc.

There aren't multiple choice questions everyone has the answers to like in podiatry school. they actually have to use their brain to solve equations on paper, have to use their brain to come up with novel research, etc.

That's an interesting side note though.



I was duped into thinking you could make 200k in podiatry in private practice working 40-50 hours a week, without fully understanding that getting to that place is way harder than it looks.

I underestimated what a drag residency is. If I had known how volatile residency life was, I probably wouldn't have chose podiatry. The schooling process was as expected, not many qualms about that. but residency, tiring and frustrating all the time. Waking up at 4:45 am to surgeries is trash.

Bro we used to be CUTTING at 5am in residency.
It's residency. This is when you learn. Quit complaining how much you have to work, it won't change anything. Embrace it, learn from it, grow from it. One day you will look back and realize how you grew as a person, as a physician. Is all of it perfectly crafted to be the best use of your time? No. Is all of it necessary? No. TFB. I don't know if that is an acronym the kids use. The sooner you embrace this the sooner you start succeeding. You think this attitude helps you with your attendings? Go manifest your perfect residency bro.

Control the controllables. Then everything is easy after that.

 

[PeaJay]

Waking up at 4:45 am to surgeries is trash.

Dude… find a good friend to hear your complaints. Embrace the grind. If you weren’t up till 1am on consults, then getting up and rounding before that 5am cut there is nothing to complain about.

Most of us went through residency before mental health days and well being retreats. We have little sympathy.

 

[air bud]

Dude… find a good friend to hear your complaints. Embrace the grind. If you weren’t up till 1am on consults, then getting up and rounding before that 5am cut there is nothing to complain about.

Most of us went through residency before mental health days and well being retreats. We have little sympathy.

Also, you are a podiatrist. Tell your sob stories to general surgery resident.

 

[PeaJay]

Also, you are a podiatrist. Tell your sob stories to general surgery resident.

Exactly. Couldn’t agree more.

 

[air bud]

And finally. You are going to be a doctor. Unless you plan on cash pay, scamming someone, running an associate mill, you get paid money by trading your time. More time spent more money. There are no economies of scale, there is no AI self automation or hiring virtual assistance from the Philippines or Colombia to gain a competitive edge and make more money. You trade your time and then in turn you get paid money. It's a good amount of money for the time that you spend but that's just the way it is. It's up to you to find the right balance. Remember it doesn't matter if you're the best surgeon in the world, Medicare is going to pay the exact same amount to the crappiest surgeon for that bunion. That's just the way it is.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Waking up early is just the privilege of being a guaranteed surgeon unlike those (dumb) DOs who aren’t guaranteed such prestige. With more and more diabetics in USA, the demand for podiatric medicine has never been higher, and I would consider it an honor to be of their service. In fact, I recommend a fellowship to further hone your podiatric medicine skills and contribute to the field.

 

[MicroPod]

To be fair, I don’t think we should compare podiatry student/resident to MD/DO counterparts. Asking a pod resident to read an EKG would be like asking an internal medicine resident how to correct flatfoot deformity.

It’s not like Ortho carries around a stethoscope and reads EKGs either. Yes, they may have learned that stuff as a student or intern year, but it’s just not applicable to their work.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

This thread is ridiculous. Never in my life would I think I would read a podiatrist complaining about residency training. We have it so easy compared to general surgery, trauma, ER etc.

Yes we still put in long hours but the mental and physical energy that goes into podiatry is so much lower.

This is your time learn. Embrace it. Learn and do as much as you can. Your career and earning potential depends on it.

The only people who make money in this racket are associate Mill private practice owners or podiatrists with serious skills that can fix almost anything involving the foot and ankle and therefore have serious volumes to make good money.

Everyone in between is a life long associate making 150-200k tops and thinking they have it good.

 

[Shiyuan]

On my ortho trauma month, I remember asking one of the ortho residents about family… he said “I have 3 kids, but I haven’t seen them in 2 days. I’m pretty tired.”

…. So yah.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

This week i had to close reduce a pilon, do multiple ankle reductions, see a few calc fx's in the ed and ride the pus bus the whole weekend. Next week I get to fix all of those things! (Can't fix the diabetic foot pus though ) Its honestly exhausting but the blessing behind all of it is that residency makes you a better doctor IF you decide to just embrace the chaos.You see so many different variations of the same injury or pus bus you learn and get better. Residency sucks. But also being a butcher of a surgeon or not having enough experience as an attending sucks worse.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

This week i had to close reduce a pilon, do multiple ankle reductions, see a few calc fx's in the ed and ride the pus bus the whole weekend. Next week I get to fix all of those things! (Can't fix the diabetic foot pus though ) Its honestly exhausting but the blessing behind all of it is that residency makes you a better doctor IF you decide to just embrace the chaos.You see so many different variations of the same injury or pus bus you learn and get better. Residency sucks. But also being a butcher of a surgeon or not having enough experience as an attending sucks worse.

also yeah gen surg residents live at the hospital. IM has more of a life. We have a pretty chill surgical residency imo compared to other specialties.

 

[Robin-jay]

This week i had to close reduce a pilon, do multiple ankle reductions, see a few calc fx's in the ed and ride the pus bus the whole weekend. Next week I get to fix all of those things! (Can't fix the diabetic foot pus though ) Its honestly exhausting but the blessing behind all of it is that residency makes you a better doctor IF you decide to just embrace the chaos.You see so many different variations of the same injury or pus bus you learn and get better. Residency sucks. But also being a butcher of a surgeon or not having enough experience as an attending sucks worse.

I will say though, its uncanny how similar all residencies seem to be to eachother.