The "Gunner" Idea

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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caramelbear

caramelbear

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I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down. However, I'm noticing that certain people in my class are being labeled as gunners merely because they study a lot and people see them studying constantly at school. Some of them are actually the types that post study guides, etc to share with others.

My general rule of thumb is to not talk about grades, etc at school to avoid opening that can of worms unless they are a very close friend, but isn't it a little ridiculous that people are getting judged for studying a lot in MEDICAL SCHOOL?

Are all schools like this?
 
Agree with the above. It's kind of thrown around in a joking manner at our school. I do kind of get the feeling that more and more people are labeling those who study the most as "gunners" though.
 
caramelbear said:
I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down. However, I'm noticing that certain people in my class are being labeled as gunners merely because they study a lot and people see them studying constantly at school. Some of them are actually the types that post study guides, etc to share with others.

My general rule of thumb is to not talk about grades, etc at school to avoid opening that can of worms unless they are a very close friend, but isn't it a little ridiculous that people are getting judged for studying a lot in MEDICAL SCHOOL?

Are all schools like this?
Click to expand...
There's two types of gunners people talk about: gunners (people who take things too seriously) and Gunners (terrible people that will throw you under the bus to get ahead). One is a joke, the other is a nightmare. Know the difference, it might save your life.
 
In MS1-2, I definitely had to actively hide how much I studied and the ways I did for fear of judgement from my friends. It was a really weird feeling.

I think all schools have some degree of this culture, which is perpetuated by projected insecurities as the above poster said.
 
It's kind of funny, we had our clinical director come in and ask how many of us were studying for boards at the start of OMS-2. No one raised their hand. Even though basically everyone has a copy of first aid and people were blowing up facebook because our Kaplan wasnt active from day one. Anti-gunners are the new gunners.
 
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Hrdrock said:
Agree with the above. It's kind of thrown around in a joking manner at our school. I do kind of get the feeling that more and more people are labeling those who study the most as "gunners" though.
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I think when people say - "He's gunning for Honors in that class", its more used to point out someone who is studying way beyond what most are for the class for a grade.
 
Mad Jack said:
It's kind of funny, we had our clinical director come in and ask how many of us were studying for boards at the start of OMS-2. No one raised their hand. Even though basically everyone has a copy of first aid and people were blowing up facebook because our Kaplan want active from day one. Anti-gunners are the new gunners.
Click to expand...
And having the Kaplan books and videos stashed! No one wants to admit it!
 
I will say the odd part at my school is the word "gunner" is used to describe someone who studies a lot because they want to learn/do well, but it's used quite negatively. It's apparently not a good thing to have a desire to learn the material well at my school.
 
charmiedermie said:
I think when people say - "He's gunning for Honors in that class", its more used to point out someone who is studying way beyond what most are for the class for a grade.
Click to expand...

Good for them. I wouldn't want a physician who wasn't that motivated.

I cannot abide talk of staying with "the class average" and mediocrity.
 
caramelbear said:
I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down. However, I'm noticing that certain people in my class are being labeled as gunners merely because they study a lot and people see them studying constantly at school. Some of them are actually the types that post study guides, etc to share with others.

My general rule of thumb is to not talk about grades, etc at school to avoid opening that can of worms unless they are a very close friend, but isn't it a little ridiculous that people are getting judged for studying a lot in MEDICAL SCHOOL?

Are all schools like this?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the definition everyone in our class uses. No one has actively been a gunner in the traditional sense. All the "gunners" in our class just study super hard and are a bit intense. It's thrown around a lot, but most of the time it's cause we're poking fun at each other and giving each other friendly **** for skipping hang outs to read, or pulling an all nighter. Rarely is it in a negative or judgmental way...at least not in my program.
 
caramelbear said:
I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down?
Click to expand...

To me a gunner is a term used to describes somebody who spends a lot of time studying at the expense of doing things most people would not sacrifice. It is still a derogatory term because it implies that the person has given up any semblance of personal balance to get an edge in grades/boards whatever.
 
DocVader1990 said:
To me a gunner is a term used to describes somebody who spends a lot of time studying at the expense of doing things most people would not sacrifice. It is still a derogatory term because it implies that the person has given up any semblance of personal balance to get an edge in grades/boards whatever.
Click to expand...

That's not the traditional 'definition', just what it's morphed into. Gunners used to be people that would sabotage fellow classmates to advance themselves. I don't think it's as common of a thing as it used to be, but there are plenty of examples of individuals intentionally telling their classmates wrong information or destroying their notes so they do worse on tests. Nowadays I think most people refer to 'gunners' as the people that just study a ton, but it's not what the word was actually meant to be.
 
DocVader1990 said:
To me a gunner is a term used to describes somebody who spends a lot of time studying at the expense of doing things most people would not sacrifice. It is still a derogatory term because it implies that the person has given up any semblance of personal balance to get an edge in grades/boards whatever.
Click to expand...
That's a gunner, not a Gunner. You earn the capital G by destroying your classmates via sabotage.
 
You guys forgot another type of Gunner - the rats. They'll snitch you out for "professionalism." It's bizarre to the point that you don't know who to trust and have to be careful with your words, even outside of class.
 
kenjixshadow said:
You guys forgot another type of Gunner - the rats. They'll snitch you out for "professionalism." It's bizarre to the point that you don't know who to trust and have to be careful with your words, even outside of class.
Click to expand...

We had quite a few of the "professionalism police" in our class...always looking to get offended on behalf of some group and then anonymously report it to administration. Now in MS3, they've continued snitching out their classmates by doing things like reporting to clerkship directors that certain people aren't showing up to required didactics or clinics - these are absences that do not increase the work load of another student or affect another student in any way. Apparently they are also reporting to clerkship directors that fellow students are studying on their phones during didactics. What I want to know is whether their motivation is actually trying to eliminate or bring down competition (true Gunning, if you will) or if it is just smug, overreaching self-righteousness. I think it's more of the latter...which is actually less respectable than malicious competition.
 
DocVader1990 said:
To me a gunner is a term used to describes somebody who spends a lot of time studying at the expense of doing things most people would not sacrifice. It is still a derogatory term because it implies that the person has given up any semblance of personal balance to get an edge in grades/boards whatever.
Click to expand...

That's not a gunner. A gunner is someone who guns you down. Calling someone who studies hard a gunner makes you a gunner because you're trying to actively sabotage another person by hurting their reputation. Why would it be any of your business what someone else does in their free time? A medical student's job is to study and know things. But you think that it's your job to judge people and call people names for working hard? you da real gunner

A real gunner would throw your notes out or talk crap about you behind your back to the residents to try to make you look bad. A real gunner makes fun of people for studying hard by calling them gunners
 
*brobro* said:
We had quite a few of the "professionalism police" in our class...always looking to get offended on behalf of some group and then anonymously report it to administration. Now in MS3, they've continued snitching out their classmates by doing things like reporting to clerkship directors that certain people aren't showing up to required didactics or clinics - these are absences that do not increase the work load of another student or affect another student in any way. Apparently they are also reporting to clerkship directors that fellow students are studying on their phones during didactics. What I want to know is whether their motivation is actually trying to eliminate or bring down competition (true Gunning, if you will) or if it is just smug, overreaching self-righteousness. I think it's more of the latter...which is actually less respectable than malicious competition.
Click to expand...
Isn't this bizarre? How the hell did these people make it into school? Why is this behavior so rampant in a profession that is marketed as giving your life to caring for people?
 
*brobro* said:
We had quite a few of the "professionalism police" in our class...always looking to get offended on behalf of some group and then anonymously report it to administration. Now in MS3, they've continued snitching out their classmates by doing things like reporting to clerkship directors that certain people aren't showing up to required didactics or clinics - these are absences that do not increase the work load of another student or affect another student in any way. Apparently they are also reporting to clerkship directors that fellow students are studying on their phones during didactics.
Click to expand...

That sounds awful. Does the administration actually fall for that crap?
 
kenjixshadow said:
You guys forgot another type of Gunner - the rats. They'll snitch you out for "professionalism." It's bizarre to the point that you don't know who to trust and have to be careful with your words, even outside of class.
Click to expand...
That's not a gunner, that's just a piece of trash rat.

Feel bad for them- they're the kid(s) who grew up in elementary school as the "taddlers" with no friends. These two aspects will never change for them.
 
Psai said:
That's not a gunner. A gunner is someone who guns you down. Calling someone who studies hard a gunner makes you a gunner because you're trying to actively sabotage another person by hurting their reputation. Why would it be any of your business what someone else does in their free time? A medical student's job is to study and know things. But you think that it's your job to judge people and call people names for working hard? you da real gunner

A real gunner would throw your notes out or talk crap about you behind your back to the residents to try to make you look bad. A real gunner makes fun of people for studying hard by calling them gunners
Click to expand...

This is correct.

For some bizarre reason, both in SDN and in real life the definition of "gunner" has been completely bastardized.
 
You're probably right.
Tri723 said:
I will say the odd part at my school is the word "gunner" is used to describe someone who studies a lot because they want to learn/do well, but it's used quite negatively. It's apparently not a good thing to have a desire to learn the material well at my school.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what happens at my school, but in exam weeks everyone still freaks out, so I guess studying the week of the exam is ok, but anything beyond that and you are trying too hard? Intriguing.
 
zeppelinpage4 said:
Yeah, that's the definition everyone in our class uses. No one has actively been a gunner in the traditional sense. All the "gunners" in our class just study super hard and are a bit intense. It's thrown around a lot, but most of the time it's cause we're poking fun at each other and giving each other friendly **** for skipping hang outs to read, or pulling an all nighter. Rarely is it in a negative or judgmental way...at least not in my program.
Click to expand...

Everyone in your class is wrong
 
The worst kind of person is one who doesn't have to study much (learn material once and maybe review it no more than once) and get close to, if not, honors, but then call people who have to study more than them "gunners".

Some of us have to study as much as a "gunner" to stay above water. Don't give me that "you must be doing something wrong if you don't have everything down cold from studying 8 hours a day" Bull****.

Med students (especially people in allo threads) need to actually realize, and I know they can because they're smart, that everyone's brains work differently.
 
TaroBubbleTea said:
That sounds awful. Does the administration actually fall for that crap?
Click to expand...

Some administration feed off this crap and even promote it to some degree. Others in admin are obligated to act on all complaints but they are really cool about it and make it obvious that they think the complaint is stupid. It really sealed the deal for me about having a nice practice in the burbs somewhere. I don't want to be anywhere near a major academic center full of these whiny children.
 
kenjixshadow said:
You guys forgot another type of Gunner - the rats. They'll snitch you out for "professionalism." It's bizarre to the point that you don't know who to trust and have to be careful with your words, even outside of class.
Click to expand...
We don't really have those in my class. Snitches get stitches. Like, there have been known issues with certain things and no one has thrown any individuals under the bus.
 
kenjixshadow said:
You guys forgot another type of Gunner - the rats. They'll snitch you out for "professionalism." It's bizarre to the point that you don't know who to trust and have to be careful with your words, even outside of class.
Click to expand...

This is so real. Gunners are not the people that study the most. They're the people who file anony complaints with the Professionalism Committee when they see you too hammered at the bar.
 
I must say I was pretty disappointed in my class's lack of ingenuity in the sabotage of others. Like the above posters mentioned, we mainly had the type who would go to the administration about "unprofessional behavior". It was just annoying, not even good for a laugh which in my opinion is the only logical reason I could see someone doing it in the first place.

When I first started school I was hoping I would hear about people getting really creative in the sabotage game. I would never partake myself but I always thought it would be amusing to me so see what lengths people would go to for that extra point. Before I started school I made a list of things I thought I might see like baking a laxative into goodies and anonymously leaving them out in a commons area the night before or morning of a large exam (especially anatomy practicals)...or crashing/overloading the schools online lecture videos website the night before an exam so they couldn't be viewed...or figuring out who their top competition was and letting air out of their tires the morning of exams...or create fake but legit looking email addresses and send them to various students saying they have a meeting with admin the day before tests.

Much to my dismay I never heard of any of these things happening but I still think they would be funny to hear about. And before I'm accused of being a mean spirited person, I would have been completely honored to have been the recipient of one of these "pranks" because it would have told me that I was doing well enough for someone else to not only take notice, but get scared they couldn't beat me legitimately. In that respect, I do not condone gunners targeting students who are not in the upper quartile of the class. It would be a shame to see someone actually fail because of someone else's stupidity.
 
Nah people in my school do ridiculous things like coming in 3 hours early to preround on every patient on the list including the days when we're not supposed to be there like lecture days or shelf days. There's really no point in sabotaging your classmates. Chances are, they're going to be the ones you're working with and will receive referrals from. Do you want your consultants to be dumb? Do you want people to refer to other doctors? Also, if grades have a cutoff, then the only thing that matters is making the grade. Whether or not others make the grades is irrelevant from that standpoint. They do matter for mspes for the one word that your school will use to describe your general standing compared to other people in your class
 
At one point most of med students were somewhere towards the top of what they were doing in undergrad, etc...now in med school not everyone can be at the top. So, I'm noticing that when someone can't do something, they like to tell others they can't do it either, or that it's not worthy of doing (e.g. actually trying to master class material)
 
Moose A Moose said:
Good for them. I wouldn't want a physician who wasn't that motivated.

I cannot abide talk of staying with "the class average" and mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Except the motivation is a grade, not to learn beyond the grade. Really has nothing to do with mediocrity.
 
Moose A Moose said:
Good for them. I wouldn't want a physician who wasn't that motivated.

I cannot abide talk of staying with "the class average" and mediocrity.
Click to expand...

mediocrity? you realize that roughly 1/2 of the people below average will likely graduate and be doctors?

mind-blowing, such failures
 
caramelbear said:
I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down. However, I'm noticing that certain people in my class are being labeled as gunners merely because they study a lot and people see them studying constantly at school. Some of them are actually the types that post study guides, etc to share with others.

My general rule of thumb is to not talk about grades, etc at school to avoid opening that can of worms unless they are a very close friend, but isn't it a little ridiculous that people are getting judged for studying a lot in MEDICAL SCHOOL?

Are all schools like this?
Click to expand...
People use the term inappropriately

Studying a lot --> hard worker
Studying a lot and making a study guide that purposefully includes incorrect answers and distributing it to class mates --> gunner
 
Last edited:
cbrons said:
People use the term inappropriately

Studying a lot --> hard worker
Studying a lot and making a study guide with incorrect answers and distributing it to class mates --> gunner
Click to expand...

LOL, well now that you mention it, those study guides do have some wrong answers.

I highly doubt it's intentional though.
 
Gunner example:
We had a class dropbox for notes and lecture outlines and one student would edit the outlines, erasing correct answers and filling in wrong answers. Little did they know the admin for the account saw them logged in while the editing was occurring.

We made a class announcement that we knew who they were and would not rat them out if they stopped. They ended up leaving med school due to professionalism issues not related to this incident.
 
junojpeg said:
Gunner example:
We had a class dropbox for notes and lecture outlines and one student would edit the outlines, erasing correct answers and filling in wrong answers. Little did they know the admin for the account saw them logged in while the editing was occurring.

We made a class announcement that we knew who they were and would not rat them out if they stopped. They ended up leaving med school due to professionalism issues not related to this incident.
Click to expand...

Boner achieved.
 
We were just having this conversation before lecture this morning. There are people in my class who can't imagine a scenario where someone would deliberately sabotage another student. Like, I mentioned things that happened at my girlfriend's school back in the day, like people deleting material from shared databases, or making intentional mistakes in group study notes, or tearing pages out of library books. They were like, that didn't/doesn't really happen, though, right?

Our class isn't competitive at all. There is no curve, no requirement that some do poorly for others to excel. We have each others backs, and I've noticed that those of us who are stronger in a subject reach out to those who are obviously struggling, to help them catch up. We joke about gunners, but it is a friendly jest. I can't imagine anyone in my group deliberately sabotaging anyone else... but unlike my peers, I have actually seen that kind of cut-throat behavior before, and I can believe it still goes on elsewhere.
 
skiier54 said:
sometimes i wish my class had some gunners.
Click to expand...

Promethean said:
We have each others backs, and I've noticed that those of us who are stronger in a subject reach out to those who are obviously struggling, to help them catch up. We joke about gunners, but it is a friendly jest. I can't imagine anyone in my group deliberately sabotaging anyone else...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I personally have never experienced any sabotage directed at me (I didn't use the class dropbox), and I'll even make the claim that 98% of our classmates are cooperative, cohesive, and professional.

Gunners in my experience have always been that 2% of classmates who you never talk to or know about. Before you know it, they are no longer on the class facebook page.
 
Promethean said:
We were just having this conversation before lecture this morning. There are people in my class who can't imagine a scenario where someone would deliberately sabotage another student. Like, I mentioned things that happened at my girlfriend's school back in the day, like people deleting material from shared databases, or making intentional mistakes in group study notes, or tearing pages out of library books. They were like, that didn't/doesn't really happen, though, right?

Our class isn't competitive at all. There is no curve, no requirement that some do poorly for others to excel. We have each others backs, and I've noticed that those of us who are stronger in a subject reach out to those who are obviously struggling, to help them catch up. We joke about gunners, but it is a friendly jest. I can't imagine anyone in my group deliberately sabotaging anyone else... but unlike my peers, I have actually seen that kind of cut-throat behavior before, and I can believe it still goes on elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Unless your school is true P/F, which I'm assuming it's not, the fact you don't have a curve is meaningless. You ARE competing against each other for ranks and percentiles. But with the spirit of your post, that doesn't mean there can't be meaningful collaboration and teamwork. The two can and usually do coexist for 95% of medical students.
 
I was giving a presentation during MS-2, and the person I was giving the presentation with actively stole some of my slides to make it seem like she did most of the work. I would call that gunning.
 
Promethean said:
We were just having this conversation before lecture this morning. There are people in my class who can't imagine a scenario where someone would deliberately sabotage another student. Like, I mentioned things that happened at my girlfriend's school back in the day, like people deleting material from shared databases, or making intentional mistakes in group study notes, or tearing pages out of library books. They were like, that didn't/doesn't really happen, though, right?

Our class isn't competitive at all. There is no curve, no requirement that some do poorly for others to excel. We have each others backs, and I've noticed that those of us who are stronger in a subject reach out to those who are obviously struggling, to help them catch up. We joke about gunners, but it is a friendly jest. I can't imagine anyone in my group deliberately sabotaging anyone else... but unlike my peers, I have actually seen that kind of cut-throat behavior before, and I can believe it still goes on elsewhere.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a great group dynamic. I've learned as an undergrad that studying in groups has been extremely beneficial for me, and collaborating with other people has pushed my knowledge leaps and bounds in my classes. I hope my future class of students is like yours. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses..
 
caramelbear said:
I always thought of gunners as those types of students who thrive on being overly competitive and putting others down. However, I'm noticing that certain people in my class are being labeled as gunners merely because they study a lot and people see them studying constantly at school. Some of them are actually the types that post study guides, etc to share with others.

My general rule of thumb is to not talk about grades, etc at school to avoid opening that can of worms unless they are a very close friend, but isn't it a little ridiculous that people are getting judged for studying a lot in MEDICAL SCHOOL?

Are all schools like this?
Click to expand...

That's how it is at my school. Bro you're not behind on lectures? Gunner. What, you studied on saturday AND sunday? Gunner. Like, OMG, you study outside resources and try to learn things that aren't in our lecture notes? Gunner.
 
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seminoma said:
That's how it is at my school. Bro you're not behind on lectures? Gunner. What, you studied on saturday AND sunday? Gunner. Like, OMG, you study outside resources and try to learn things that aren't in our lecture notes? Gunner.
Click to expand...

Actual gunners coopting the word to further their agenda
 
Psai said:
Actual gunners coopting the word to further their agenda
Click to expand...

Haha yeah I always got a kick out of people who I knew studied more than me calling me a gunner whenever other classmates were around.
 
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