The home program love thread

[epsilonprodigy]

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For those of us ranking our home program #1, I'd love to hear of productive ideas to stack the deck in our favor. My situation is a bit unique in the way that our PD was out on LOA for a brief time (which, as luck would have it, was during my entire 3rd year.) Here's what I've done so far:

1. My attending for the core clerkship is the associate PD. I met with him early on and told him I wanted to stay for residency. Jumped onto a research project of his shortly thereafter. Ditto for the attending from my AI. Both wrote me "strong" letters, however both yakked on about applying broadly. Not so reassuring. I guess my letters really are strong, as I've been complimented on them on the interview trail.
2. Met with the chair and told him I wanted to stay. He was very reassuring and said that I'm a "strong applicant who will surely have my pick."
3. Met with the actual PD as soon as I could and told HIM I wanted to stay. Later, when I was on a light rotation, I was trying to scheme ways to get back into the OR and saw that he had a really cool case coming up. I emailed him to see if I could come and came in on a day off for it.
4. I show up at weekly grand rounds whenever I can as rotations/interviews allow, and have done so since finishing the core clerkship. I try to "be seen," but who knows if I actually am, lol.
5. After interviewing at my home program, I told the residents I'm friends with point blank that I'm ranking the program #1. I also said it outright in my thank-you notes to the PD and interviewers after interviewing there.

My step scores are solid, so I'm not worried about that. Historically, my institution takes about one of its own per year. I'm not super stressed, as I have a lot of great interviews, but I REALLY REALLY want to be at my home program. I have to admit I'm a little concerned about the fact that no one has given me the "wink wink, nudge nudge... you have nothing to worry about." Additionally, this sort of knocks out the possibility of asking faculty to make phone calls for me (to each other? themselves? ) Short of chaining myself to the PD's desk and offering myself to him, what the heck else to do?

 

[Moko]

Short of chaining myself to the PD's desk and offering myself to him, what the heck else to do?

Avoid going overboard into the realm of creepiness? 😛

 

[gutonc]

Avoid going overboard into the realm of creepiness? 😛

Did you read the whole post? It's way too late for that.

 

[22031 Alum]

Short of chaining myself to the PD's desk and offering myself to him, what the heck else to do?

Calm down. You've done all you can, and depending on the "culture" of the program may be dangerously close to becoming annoying. They might not be the type of program to give hints (which are against the rules, though that doesn't stop some places). They might love you and plan to rank you #1. They might be just okay with you and plan to rank you near the top, middle or bottom of the list. They may think you're creepy and not want to rank you at all. You have no way to know and we have no way to tell you. Just rank the places you interviewed in the order you preferred them. Do not suicide rank.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

I highly doubt that showing up to maybe 5-10 grand rounds over a period of 18 months, the OR once for a huge case, and making sure to meet with key faculty to express my interest are "creepy" or "annoying." I'm not hounding them by any stretch.

 

[22031 Alum]

I highly doubt that showing up to maybe 5-10 grand rounds over a period of 18 months, the OR once for a huge case, and making sure to meet with key faculty to express my interest are "creepy" or "annoying." I'm not hounding them by any stretch.

You are probably right, but can't know that for sure. What isn't annoying hounding to you might be all of those to busy faculty. But even if you are right, it sounds like you are just desperate for them to violate the rules and tell you that you'll match there. Honestly, if they were going to do that, they would have done it already. And if they're not going to do it, nothing you do will change that. And take it from me as someone who does this- they already know where they are going to rank you. So what is the potential benefit for you to persist? Nothing. What is the potential harm? Even if it's minuscule, it's there. So I'd recommend you take Aaron Rodgers's advice.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Additionally, when I met with the PD (ONCE), I told him I was interested in staying and asked what I could do to make that more likely- he said "come to grand rounds." I had already done this multiple times at that point. To be fair, he previously had no idea who I was.

In other news, my New Year's resolution will be to stop opening myself up to adolescent slaps on SDN.

 

[22031 Alum]

Additionally, when I met with the PD (ONCE), I told him I was interested in staying and asked what I could do to make that more likely- he said "come to grand rounds." I had already done this multiple times at that point. To be fair, he previously had no idea who I was.

In other news, my New Year's resolution will be to stop opening myself up to adolescent slaps on SDN.

Adolescent?? Or not exactly what you want to hear? Trust me I wish I could answer your original question and tell you "Do XYZ and you are 100% guaranteed to match at your home program." But I can't- I can't even do it for my own students!! Nobody here can do that for you. And if the program hasn't told you, they aren't going to and absolutely nothing you do will change that. You just have to wait for that envelope like almost every other MS4.

All we can tell you is our opinion based on the information you give and our own experiences. You are probably underestimating the vast degree of variation between program "cultures" and didn't realize that the fact that you were told to come to Grand Rounds would have been helpful for us to know. At a lot of places, doing that (as well having as multiple post-interview meetings) would be a weird thing to do and would not strengthen your position. How could any of us know whether your program is one of those places or not? We can't.

TL;DR: Beyond the standard application/interview/being fun to work with, there isn't a sure fire way to stack the deck in your favor. Be aware of the possible nonzero risk of actually harming your chances by "doing too much."

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Maybe I wasn't clear. There have been ZERO post-interview meetings. I met with all the aforementioned faculty during or shortly after my core rotation. I didn't throw around the term "#1" at that point. Rather, I expressed how much I had enjoyed my rotation and said that I could see myself being very happy at the program, so any advice to make that more plausible would be appreciated. After interviewing there, and toward the end of the trail, I sent notes telling them they were #1. Like many programs, mine does not take this lightly and has blatantly told us all that they will blackball anyone who lies for fellowship and future support.

 

[22031 Alum]

Okay! That sounds better- it's a LOT less likely that you've crossed into "overbearing" territory so I wouldn't worry about that at all. But in my experience there is still nothing you can do to make your assertion that your home program is your #1 any more plausible. Even if there was something else you could do, the chance that it would change where they have already decided to rank you approaches zero. I know it sucks feeling like you don't have any control over your fate. Sorry.

 

[J ROD]

You ought to be able to tell if you have a shot at your home program. Most will not tell you flat out but you have to read between the lines.

I simply told the chair and pd at my #1 they are such and I hope they rank me after all my interviews but 1 because I know it is not a place I would rather go. I might and probably will reiterate that again right before rank lists go out.

The chair asked I keep him in the loop as I go through interview season and expressed high interest during our interview that he thought I would be a perfect fit for what he was trying to build. And I agree. Got a strong feel when I was there and PD has expressed how he would help me reach my career goals during residency to make me competitive for a fellowship I am interested in during an email exchange after I had an additional question.

You never know about this process as I have watched over the last several years. Just do your best to chill and rank where you want to go in that order. Most importantly, make sure to rank enough programs to match.

 

[mvenus929]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but sometimes there are far more people involved in decisions than you realize, and it may be that you are ultimately ranked highly, but happen to not match. It will not be the end of the world. There isn't anything you can do beyond what you have already done, so make your rank list accordingly and hope for the best.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but sometimes there are far more people involved in decisions than you realize, and it may be that you are ultimately ranked highly, but happen to not match. It will not be the end of the world. There isn't anything you can do beyond what you have already done, so make your rank list accordingly and hope for the best.

More people than we realize... What on earth are you referring to? Do you mean to say that the match results are finagled with by persons of power who want certain applicants, or that a hater or two at a program can ruin it for an applicant?

 

[one11]

What else can you do? you love your program, you worked hard to get in, they know you want them, rank the program #1 and move on. Nobody here knows if the program will rank you to match or not. As someone said, do your best and hope for the best. I really wish you to get in your program of your choice, but not to make you nervous or anything, remember that there is always someone better, maybe there is someone in your home program who really wants to get in also, and has a better application. Just hope for the best in match day and do not take anything personally. Believe me, ten years from now none of this will make any difference.

 

[22031 Alum]

More people than we realize... What on earth are you referring to? Do you mean to say that the match results are finagled with by persons of power who want certain applicants, or that a hater or two at a program can ruin it for an applicant?

I think what was meant is that rank lists may be made by committee. Match results aren't finagled- that is done by computer. But the rank list is absolutely the product of multiple people's input. To call it "finagling" makes it sound underhanded, when it's not at all.

Your efforts to get in good with Attending A and Attending B may not be enough to vault you to the top of a list in which Attendings C through Z and the residents also have input. Saying that a "hater" can "ruin it for an applicant" makes it sound like you think that's the only way you won't get a spot. While a negative vote may carry a lot of weight, you could have nothing but favorable reviews, and still end up not matching there. If they have 8 spots and you are ranked #9 (which is a very favorable ranking) you may just miss the cut.

 

[mvenus929]

More people than we realize... What on earth are you referring to? Do you mean to say that the match results are finagled with by persons of power who want certain applicants, or that a hater or two at a program can ruin it for an applicant?

No, I'm saying that the PD may love you, but the residents are ambivalent and the PD might place more stock into their opinions. The chair might love you, but the PD might be meh. Your interviewer might love you, but there are 50 other applicants that other people also loved, and you just happen to fall at #51 on the list, and this year the program fills at 39, even though it typically goes down to 60.

There are any number of variables that can affect the ultimate position on the rank list. All of them are now out of the OP's control.