The importance of administrators

[pathstudent]

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I saw this on drudge report.

Thrombus and Raider denigrate hospital admins quite a bit, but check this out. A state run mid-sized low tier hospital CEO makes almost 1,000,000 a year. Just think what the CEO of MDA or MSK or Mayo makes.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2011/09/uc-panel-approves-raises-for-h.html

 

[KeratinPearls]

I saw this on drudge report.

Thrombus and Raider denigrate hospital admins quite a bit, but check this out. A state run mid-sized low tier hospital CEO makes almost 1,000,000 a year. Just think what the CEO of MDA or MSK or Mayo makes.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2011/09/uc-panel-approves-raises-for-h.html

Sad considering how long Ive been in school training. She must be the cream of the crop to get a job like that.

 

[pathstudent]

Sad considering how long Ive been in school training. She must be the cream of the crop to get a job like that.

The median salary for a hospital CEO at a non-profit is 1,000,000 and that is just what is reported. It is probably much higher at large private community hospitals and at large private academic ones.

If I was her would take the 1.5 million job. Sure sacramento is in California with proximity to sf and Tahoe, but an extra 500,000 a year ain't peanuts

 

[TMZ2007]

FWIW, I've heard an adage that says that the three most stressful jobs in the US are:
1. President of the US
2. Large University President/Dean
3. Large Hospital Administrator/President/CEO

I don't begrudge the senior person a 7 figure salary. However, I do think the mid-level execs are probably too numerous and overcompensated. Our hospital system has like 25 junior VPs, each of whom makes like 400-500k for managing some rinky-dink department (like maintenance or food service). That bothers me a little bit.

 

[pathstudent]

FWIW, I've heard an adage that says that the three most stressful jobs in the US are:
1. President of the US
2. Large University President/Dean
3. Large Hospital Administrator/President/CEO

QUOTE]

What about College basketball coach or Lindsey Lohan's PR agent?

 

[mlw03]

when healthcare is a business, it gets run like a business. I get tired of hearing Americans complain about this sort of stuff, and then get very mad when you bring up universal healthcare systems. i'm not trying to hijack the thread, but Americans can't have it both ways. profitable businesses pay executives well in this country.

FWIW, I've heard an adage that says that the three most stressful jobs in the US are:
1. President of the US
2. Large University President/Dean
3. Large Hospital Administrator/President/CEO

I don't begrudge the senior person a 7 figure salary. However, I do think the mid-level execs are probably too numerous and overcompensated. Our hospital system has like 25 junior VPs, each of whom makes like 400-500k for managing some rinky-dink department (like maintenance or food service). That bothers me a little bit.

 

[TMZ2007]

profitable businesses pay executives well in this country.

Even when the "business" is a non-profit entity? And not doing well financially, to boot?

 

[schrute]

...profitable businesses pay executives well in this country.

True, but healthcare is more like a bureaucracy than a typical business...in the healthcare heirarchy, physicians aren't commodities, they are resources.

 

[mlw03]

healthcare is a for-profit entity in this country, regardless of classification for tax purposes.

Even when the "business" is a non-profit entity? And not doing well financially, to boot?

 

[pathstudent]

when healthcare is a business, it gets run like a business. I get tired of hearing Americans complain about this sort of stuff, and then get very mad when you bring up universal healthcare systems. i'm not trying to hijack the thread, but Americans can't have it both ways. profitable businesses pay executives well in this country.

And if they make this as state run hospitals just imagine what they make a private community hospitals of equal size.

 

[mlw03]

i'd rather not imagine. just makes me angry. i'll paraphrase one of the attendings i most respected in residency. there is NOTHING wrong with making a good living for hard work, but making obscene money when many people are going hungry and without basic healthcare... that i'm not cool with.

 

[KCShaw]

Some admininstrators earn their keep. Many don't, or actively get in the way. I understand the concept that some "administrators" who gun for the big jobs may spend significant chunks of time jobless between those positions, and at the top level at least there may be a lot of turnover. But that doesn't mean I have universal respect for those positions. Sometimes they are mere figureheads who take the credit or the blame but have limited actual influence (like some chief residents). Sometimes they make big decisions, for better or worse. A lot of times it seems they don't have much understanding of what they are "in charge" of, which one would think might be a problem. So while the "top" jobs are often more visible and on the line with every change in perception of the entity they "administer", job and career security may have more to do with politics and perception than reality, and when reality kicks in it's often the underlings holding everything together.

 

[pathstudent]

i'd rather not imagine. just makes me angry. i'll paraphrase one of the attendings i most respected in residency. there is NOTHING wrong with making a good living for hard work, but making obscene money when many people are going hungry and without basic healthcare... that i'm not cool with.

Well something like 6000 kids a day die due to malaria (totally preventable and basically like two 9/11s every day) because they are hungry and without basic healthcare. Tell your attending he can donate his paycheck if he wants to be cool with himself.

 

[mlw03]

Well something like 6000 kids a day die due to malaria (totally preventable and basically like two 9/11s every day) because they are hungry and without basic healthcare. Tell your attending he can donate his paycheck if he wants to be cool with himself.

don't know what you're trying to imply with that?

it's about a middle ground. i don't think one needs to donate their entire paycheck to be "cool with himself" but i don't think it's right for there to be such discrepancies in wealth distribution. i don't think a hospital administrator needs to make $600K/year to provide a good lifestyle for their family.

 

[Ruination]

I used to think that I wouldn't require a large income to be satisfied in life, but I'm pretty much over people telling me how much is reasonable for me to earn and how I probably don't need a lot of money to be "happy", like its some sort of plague to be in a position to earn a lot of money. I want as much dough as I can get at this point so I can buy all the cars , vacations, and other **** that I've deprived myself of the past decade. That's what will make me happy. And it would be nice to donate to charities and non-profits, too.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I used to think that I wouldn't require a large income to be satisfied in life, but I'm pretty much over people telling me how much is reasonable for me to earn and how I probably don't need a lot of money to be "happy", like its some sort of plague to be in a position to earn a lot of money. I want as much dough as I can get at this point so I can buy all the cars , vacations, and other **** that I've deprived myself of the past decade. That's what will make me happy. And it would be nice to donate to charities and non-profits, too.

Second that. 🙂 Are you a dermpath fellow? That can help.

 

[lipomas]

I don't know man, they keep doing all these studies that show that $$ doesn't really make you happy. Personally, I tend to agree, although I would say that money can make you contented which makes being happy easier. But quite a few of the stressed out miserable individuals I have met in my life have been wealthy. Because if you have money, you want more. And you will be happy once you get "more money." I mean, look at the ******* who owns the LA Dodgers! He has millions of dollars plus owns a billion dollar asset and he is broke! And all they talk about is "maintaining the lifestyle." A lot of people on these forums say, "hey man, that's not me, I don't need much out of life." Good luck with that attitude pal. It isn't going to fly unless you are single, very handy, and you don't like to do anything. Because if you're not single there is another person who wants more things. And if you like to do things then you will start spending it anyway. And if you're not handy you will start paying people to do stuff like cut your grass or drive you to the airport or fix your stove.

The funny thing is once you start making money your monthly budget starts to go up. You start spending more money and before you know it your monthly bills vastly exceed what they used to be when you made less money. And your wife (or husband) starts buying more stuff or getting new stuff for the house and says things like, "it's worth it!" So you have to get a new refrigerator and then knock down the wall to expand your living room and then she decides you need new floors and then after all that she wants to take a vacation to "someplace nice" and it just keeps going. And then you realize that this spending isn't going to stop when you retire, so now you have to plan for a bigger retirement nest egg.

So I think I am going to start lying about my income now. To my family and myself.

 

[KCShaw]

...
The funny thing is once you start making money your monthly budget starts to go up. You start spending more money and before you know it your monthly bills vastly exceed what they used to be when you made less money. And your wife (or husband) starts buying more stuff or getting new stuff for the house and says things like, "it's worth it!" So you have to get a new refrigerator and then knock down the wall to expand your living room and then she decides you need new floors and then after all that she wants to take a vacation to "someplace nice" and it just keeps going. And then you realize that this spending isn't going to stop when you retire, so now you have to plan for a bigger retirement nest egg.
...

👍

It's not only the significant other who starts spending more -- you do too. Unless you have more self control than you actually have (essentially everyone overestimates their ability to handle it) you'll still need to work until you're too old to enjoy retirement before retiring, following which you may wonder if you retired and let your license lapse too early after all. Which is another part of why many people suggest finding a job you enjoy. Contentment/happiness goes a long way in life, but there's a difference in what people want, need, and are content with.

I'm of a mind that money absolutely helps -- it's harder, though I suppose not impossible, to be completely happy when all but bankrupt and riding a bus to work for a work+commute of 16 hour days while living with spouse and kids in a trailer without heat/AC or running water and the prospect of instant homelessness upon losing that job. It's also harder to be happy in life with a job that you know pays submarket salary and doesn't treat you well to boot -- which makes you closer to broke and homeless than a lot of people may realize. Fortunately, I think a really solid home/family/personal life helps, sometimes quite dramatically, blur the edges of financial and work related stresses. If it happens to be that having an enjoyable job at the expense of a few bucks in salary means having a happier life, so be it -- but there's gotta be a line in the sand there somewhere.

Bit of a drift from administrators and their salaries. I don't begrudge people for pushing the envelope in asking for higher pay or following the high-paying jobs, though I don't always think they are appropriate market salaries.

 

[pathdoc68]

I don't know man, they keep doing all these studies that show that $$ doesn't really make you happy. Personally, I tend to agree, although I would say that money can make you contented which makes being happy easier. But quite a few of the stressed out miserable individuals I have met in my life have been wealthy. Because if you have money, you want more. And you will be happy once you get "more money." I mean, look at the ******* who owns the LA Dodgers! He has millions of dollars plus owns a billion dollar asset and he is broke! And all they talk about is "maintaining the lifestyle." A lot of people on these forums say, "hey man, that's not me, I don't need much out of life." Good luck with that attitude pal. It isn't going to fly unless you are single, very handy, and you don't like to do anything. Because if you're not single there is another person who wants more things. And if you like to do things then you will start spending it anyway. And if you're not handy you will start paying people to do stuff like cut your grass or drive you to the airport or fix your stove.

The funny thing is once you start making money your monthly budget starts to go up. You start spending more money and before you know it your monthly bills vastly exceed what they used to be when you made less money. And your wife (or husband) starts buying more stuff or getting new stuff for the house and says things like, "it's worth it!" So you have to get a new refrigerator and then knock down the wall to expand your living room and then she decides you need new floors and then after all that she wants to take a vacation to "someplace nice" and it just keeps going. And then you realize that this spending isn't going to stop when you retire, so now you have to plan for a bigger retirement nest egg.

So I think I am going to start lying about my income now. To my family and myself.

Amen Brother!

 

[member0007]

7 figure salary to be an administrator - sounds fishy. i am all for putting a cap on salaries for hospital employees especially those in administrative positions. seriously, what do they do to be earning all that much? i think that the administrators raking in such an outlandish salary speaks to the current healthcare crises... there is no oversight anywhere and people are just doing whatever they want and think they can get away with.

 

[mlw03]

7 figure salary to be an administrator - sounds fishy. i am all for putting a cap on salaries for hospital employees especially those in administrative positions. seriously, what do they do to be earning all that much? i think that the administrators raking in such an outlandish salary speaks to the current healthcare crises... there is no oversight anywhere and people are just doing whatever they want and think they can get away with.

In what form? Law? That's not how the free market works. They get paid as much as they can command, same as everyone else. That's the result of a healthcare system that is largely for-profit. Adminstrators who bring that much value to their hospitals get that salary.

 

[DoctwoB]

In what form? Law? That's not how the free market works. They get paid as much as they can command, same as everyone else. That's the result of a healthcare system that is largely for-profit. Adminstrators who bring that much value to their hospitals get that salary.

Agreed. Administrators make that much because in the current system, a good administrator can bring in much more money then a doc by attracting the right patient mix, playing billing games/negotiating w/ insurance companies, deciding which new fancy machine to invest in, etc. The problem is the perverse financial incentives created by the current health care systems. You want a multiple private payer system to generate efficiency? Guess what, someone has to process bills using different procedures for different insurance companies, deal with "efficiency enhancing" prior authorizations, negotiate payment rates, chase after late payments, etc.

Don't hate the players (admins), hate the game.

 

[member0007]

Agreed. Administrators make that much because in the current system, a good administrator can bring in much more money then a doc by attracting the right patient mix, playing billing games/negotiating w/ insurance companies, deciding which new fancy machine to invest in, etc. The problem is the perverse financial incentives created by the current health care systems. You want a multiple private payer system to generate efficiency? Guess what, someone has to process bills using different procedures for different insurance companies, deal with "efficiency enhancing" prior authorizations, negotiate payment rates, chase after late payments, etc.

Don't hate the players (admins), hate the game.

i completely disagree. here is the thing, doctors are a local resource. the patients like the doctor for whatever reason and they go to a certain person. these doctors provide a service and bill etc... as a pathologist, you are not involved in this game. you work in a hospital or group that attracts business by providing a comprehensive service to clinicians that you work with. Ideally, you know the clinicians and you make sure that they understand the relevance of the diagnosis and you understand where they are coming from when they send you patient's clinical impressions and specimens. As a pathologist, you have to take a lot of responsibility for your job and your patients and your clinicians. The clinicians in turn are supposed to take responsibility for their patients and that's about it. TheY should not have a FINANCIAL stake in every biopsy they do because that is a conflict of interest if they are getting reimbursed somehow...