The logic of the private forum

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How would public information help employers more than it helps employees?

For example, most information similar to this requires paying significant amounts to get information and is often not available to employees. So why would hiding similar information about real world discussion not be beneficial to employees?
 
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CurbYourExpectations said:
How would public information help employers more than it helps employees?

For example, most information similar to this requires paying significant amounts to get information and is often not available to employees. So why would hiding similar information about real world discussion not be beneficial to employees?
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Some "public" information requires $$$ to access. ASTRO Salary Survey? Simul?
 
Sarcasm I think, hard to tell online.
Employers are not giving 80 RVU, often even 60 RVU, ask me how I know? lol
 
My point is who is it being hidden from? No large academic sites are like "80 RVU? Why am I paying my academic RadOnc 350k for producing 10k RVU (AKA 35 RVU)?" What does hiding data of people getting decent revenue from the public help? Why send it to a private forum (that definitely 100% doesn't have private employers that are not offering partnership (probably). Am I taking crazy pills @TheWallnerus
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
My point is who is it being hidden from? No large academic sites are like "80 RVU? Why am I paying my academic RadOnc 350k for producing 10k RVU (AKA 35 RVU)?" What does hiding data of people getting decent revenue from the public help? Why send it to a private forum (that definitely 100% doesn't have private employers that are not offering partnership (probably). Am I taking crazy pills @TheWallnerus
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Agree. we can say what we're worth or be told what we're worth.
 
The private forum is protected to verified rad oncs. There is more discussion there than just salary, and it should be obvious why some things may want to not be fully public. Interesting discussions like "ExacTrac system" "Telepathology" and "Does anyone like Ethos" (no) that we wouldn't dare discuss fully freely among the commoners.
 
The irony of having to identify yourself on an anonymous forum to discuss things you wouldn't discuss in the public.

Edit- Or can you just be like, "I am not a fan of the DEBRA trial", and people are like, "yeah let them in, they're legit." Like a speakeasy of sorts?
Edit- I just figured employers and admin already have all of this information, so wouldn't more people knowing what is available be better for the majority of us? But maybe not a good idea.
 
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Employers have the information from their faciliity. They do not necessarily have the information from other facilities. If employers were routinely able to see some of the discussions we've had in there, it may cause downward pressure on salaries.

All of these things are maybes. Some were concerned about people from Medicare/insurance companies reading SDN about how 'easy' Rad Onc was which could further lead to cuts to our field.

If there is even a 1% chance that anonymous discussion in a public forum that is readable by all regardless of whether they have an account or are a Rad Onc, let alone a physician, there is value in protecting some of that from public prying eyes who are *constantly* looking for ways to take *further* advantage of Rad Oncs as a field.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding the value of the business forum and are welcome to continue holding that opinion.

However, the forum will remain, and real discussions about job offers, $/RVU, and other topics that are not felt to be appropriate consumption for the rest of the world to see will continue to be directed there.

The verification process is necessary to ensure that the space remains protected to those who are Radiation Oncologists, whether they be attendings or trainees. You are welcome to participate with verification, and you are also welcome to not participate.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Employers have the information from their faciliity. They do not necessarily have the information from other facilities. If employers were routinely able to see some of the discussions we've had in there, it may cause downward pressure on salaries.

All of these things are maybes. Some were concerned about people from Medicare/insurance companies reading SDN about how 'easy' Rad Onc was which could further lead to cuts to our field.

If there is even a 1% chance that anonymous discussion in a public forum that is readable by all regardless of whether they have an account or are a Rad Onc, let alone a physician, there is value in protecting some of that from public prying eyes who are *constantly* looking for ways to take *further* advantage of Rad Oncs as a field.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding the value of the business forum and are welcome to continue holding that opinion.

However, the forum will remain, and real discussions about job offers, $/RVU, and other topics that are not felt to be appropriate consumption for the rest of the world to see will continue to be directed there.

The verification process is necessary to ensure that the space remains protected to those who are Radiation Oncologists, whether they be attendings or trainees. You are welcome to participate with verification, and you are also welcome to not participate.
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Thanks for the details, much appreciated.

If there is one thing I am certain of in this field, there will always be downward pressures (at least it feels like it).

And regarding people getting 80/RVU.

100k 50k GIF
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Employers have the information from their faciliity. They do not necessarily have the information from other facilities. If employers were routinely able to see some of the discussions we've had in there, it may cause downward pressure on salaries.

All of these things are maybes. Some were concerned about people from Medicare/insurance companies reading SDN about how 'easy' Rad Onc was which could further lead to cuts to our field.

If there is even a 1% chance that anonymous discussion in a public forum that is readable by all regardless of whether they have an account or are a Rad Onc, let alone a physician, there is value in protecting some of that from public prying eyes who are *constantly* looking for ways to take *further* advantage of Rad Oncs as a field.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding the value of the business forum and are welcome to continue holding that opinion.

However, the forum will remain, and real discussions about job offers, $/RVU, and other topics that are not felt to be appropriate consumption for the rest of the world to see will continue to be directed there.

The verification process is necessary to ensure that the space remains protected to those who are Radiation Oncologists, whether they be attendings or trainees. You are welcome to participate with verification, and you are also welcome to not participate.
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I do kind of wonder. If I were a betting man, I would guess that this forum is overrepresented by radiation oncologists who applied/graduated in the "peak" era of radiation oncology, when SDN was the primary resource for physicians/medical students (as opposed to say, Reddit), and those who practice in large cities. This likely over represents younger-middle career radoncs in coastal cities, who are likely only now entering their peak earning years/now have an increased ability to negotiate.
 
sloh said:
How do you rad oncs feel about the quality of discussions in other forums like Reddit?
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Poor in general. There is a bit of medical physics discussion on the med phys subreddit, but haven’t actively sought out other comparitors. Most I see is patient facing questions and rather superficial discussions, and not the perhaps longer form discourse that is here or referenced here. Even the app formerly known as Twitter I think has better discussion amongst professionals, imo
 
Doctorer said:
I do kind of wonder. If I were a betting man, I would guess that this forum is overrepresented by radiation oncologists who applied/graduated in the "peak" era of radiation oncology, when SDN was the primary resource for physicians/medical students (as opposed to say, Reddit), and those who practice in large cities. This likely over represents younger-middle career radoncs in coastal cities, who are likely only now entering their peak earning years/now have an increased ability to negotiate.
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SDN has a higher likelihood of use by people who grew up in an era where participating in online communication, rather than 'boomers'. Thus, given people in younger generations are more likely to want to live in coastal cities and less likely to live in rural areas.

It also likely selects for people that are not as clinically busy, because most folks who are hustling (@OTN is at least one outlier to this) don't have time to post on SDN.
 
evilbooyaa said:
SDN has a higher likelihood of use by people who grew up in an era where participating in online communication, rather than 'boomers'. Thus, given people in younger generations are more likely to want to live in coastal cities and less likely to live in rural areas.

It also likely selects for people that are not as clinically busy, because most folks who are hustling (@OTN is at least one outlier to this) don't have time to post on SDN.
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I would not be surprised if at the end of their career, OTN is revealed to in fact be 3 rad oncs in a trench coat.
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
Dunno what's in there but as a Med Onc in PP who has Rad Onc in our group I would have liked to be able to join to read/understand more about the business side of Rad Onc.
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Many med onc groups nationwide employ a Rad Onc. Many Med Onc groups would love to know what is a reasonable number to try to tailor their $/RVU accordingly to maximize the amount of money being skimmed off the Rad Oncs back but still have somebody who isn't crap at their job. Lots of Rad Oncs out there who are pretty crap at being a Rad Onc. Enough of that happens, downward salaries across the board.

While you may have sincere intentions, many Med Oncs would not.

If you're interested in the Rad Onc business part that wouldn't harm the Rad Onc, why not ask the Rad Onc your group employs directly?
 
evilbooyaa said:
Many med onc groups nationwide employ a Rad Onc. Many Med Onc groups would love to know what is a reasonable number to try to tailor their $/RVU accordingly to maximize the amount of money being skimmed off the Rad Oncs back but still have somebody who isn't crap at their job. Lots of Rad Oncs out there who are pretty crap at being a Rad Onc. Enough of that happens, downward salaries across the board.

While you may have sincere intentions, many Med Oncs would not.

If you're interested in the Rad Onc business part that wouldn't harm the Rad Onc, why not ask the Rad Onc your group employs directly?
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I do but I would prefer to read you guys’ thoughts while on the toilet or in the evening at home rather than a monthly/ quarterly business meeting etc. and never hurts to see additional opinions/ideas.

I’ve never interviewed at a Med Onc group who employed Rad Oncs without Rad Onc being partners in the group but I guess they’re probably out there. I would also imagine they have their own methods of maximizing whatever value rather than reading SDN.

As someone who has been reading this forum since before I graduated medical school, I just feel like there’s a lot more bitterness/adversarial attitude in this forum toward Med Onc than we have towards our Rad Onc colleagues and a fair amount of it is probably misplaced but I fully expect to get flamed for pointing that out.
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
I do but I would prefer to read you guys’ thoughts while on the toilet or in the evening at home rather than a monthly/ quarterly business meeting etc. and never hurts to see additional opinions/ideas.

I’ve never interviewed at a Med Onc group who employed Rad Oncs without Rad Onc being partners in the group but I guess they’re probably out there. I would also imagine they have their own methods of maximizing whatever value rather than reading SDN.

As someone who has been reading this forum since before I graduated medical school, I just feel like there’s a lot more bitterness/adversarial attitude in this forum toward Med Onc than we have towards our Rad Onc colleagues and a fair amount of it is probably misplaced but I fully expect to get flamed for pointing that out.
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I work very, very closely with my MedOncs, are full partners with them, etc, so my practice is very close to yours. There are some practices, however, where MedOncs have taken advantage of RadOncs, and unfortunately our antennae are very fine-tuned to look for these situations recently, so we're probably all erring too far on that side of things these days.
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
I do but I would prefer to read you guys’ thoughts while on the toilet or in the evening at home rather than a monthly/ quarterly business meeting etc. and never hurts to see additional opinions/ideas.

I’ve never interviewed at a Med Onc group who employed Rad Oncs without Rad Onc being partners in the group but I guess they’re probably out there. I would also imagine they have their own methods of maximizing whatever value rather than reading SDN.

As someone who has been reading this forum since before I graduated medical school, I just feel like there’s a lot more bitterness/adversarial attitude in this forum toward Med Onc than we have towards our Rad Onc colleagues and a fair amount of it is probably misplaced but I fully expect to get flamed for pointing that out.
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Again, you might be "one of the good ones", or perhaps most Med Oncs ARE the good ones and we're just hyperaware of putting ourselves at risk of being hurt. My desire is for all Rad Oncs to get paid what they are worth. The vast majority of Rad Oncs get paid a fraction of that. Rad Onc collections are one of the biggest money makers for a practice, a hospital, whatever. And everyone continues to dig their hands deeper in the collective Rad Oncs pocket for their share.

So, kinda similar to above, if there is even a 1% chance that allowing Med Oncs to join the Business of Rad Onc forum means that any Rad Onc in the US is unable to negotiate as good of a compensation mechanism because of knowledge gleaned from SDN, I would consider that a failure of SDN.

Most community locations that have Med Oncs and Rad Oncs on equal footing lead to significant support and deference to one another.

In regards to the last paragraph, yeah we probably crap on other fields more than most, but that's because we depend on other fields for patients. MOST Rad Oncs are not getting referrals directly from PCP. We can only help on patients we are made aware of. Every Rad Onc has a story of a patient that was 'gatekept' by some other person from some other medical specialty and the patient was directly harmed as a result of it.

You are more likely to hear the vocal minority of cases where Med Oncs are doing crazy dumb stuff on SDN. Stuff that you as a Med Onc would know is *wrong* - like say single agent immunotherapy for non-metastatic HPV+ OPhx.

Then there's the stuff that's *mainstream* in Heme/Onc fields but goes antithetical to being a Rad Onc - like omitting RT in Lymphoma so more people can get CAR-T for salvage with a 10% 90-day mortality.
 
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