I very much appreciate everyone's perspective and responses. Thank you.
I suppose that I'll address some of SLP's comments first, since his/hers are most divergent.
i think your asking for too much, you will likely have to move pretty far to find a job( look at any comm dis faculty page, look at where they got their phd, most moved 5 states away or across to the other coast),
This is true for almost all PhD markets, no?
as a phd you will be a slave until you graduate having no social life, you really have to love statistics and what your researching to make it bearable,
This might be a little bit of hyperbole. I think its how you frame it for yourself. If you go about getting the PhD in the traditional way, then you don't pay for your PhD and you get paid to do it.
"Social life" has to be qualified.
Having to "love statistics" makes it sound like a PhD in hearing science is crunching large sets of data all day. Although being competent with statistical data is crucial, I don't believe that crunching raw data points all day, every day, is the job. At least not most jobs.
as far as pay, you will start at the bottom of the totem pole as an assistant prof, your 34 now? add 5-6 years, and your making 55-60k (varies a ton with region, but u get the idea),
I'm not that worried about the pay at this point. I have another stream of income which will continue through school and the beginning years. I'm more concerned acquiring a challenging and fulfilling career.
Also, with a clinical cert in addition to a PhD, I hope to qualify for the widest range of positions including audiology department head in a medical setting.
A position such as this is a good example:
https://ais.ohsu.edu/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?OAFunc=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY&p_svid=33270
you are better off just getting the aud, if you want more pay and more job opportunities;
How does the entry level clinical doctorate offer more pay an opportunities than a PhD with a CCC-A?
getting your phd and then getting your ccc's sounds like way too much work, but its all your call in the end.
Its a lot of work, I agree. But a worse fate is putting in less work for a career that I wont be happy in, and wishing I would have spent the extra two years to get the terminal degree but not having the time / money / flexibility / resources to then complete it.
Dont make it all about some crazy idea to have the perfect job you "love", i see people chasing this ideal all the time, its overated!,
I agree and disagree. I agree that there is no perfect job. I disagree that a person should think that its a necessary evil to put up with a position that he or she has almost zero professional interest in for the course of a career. For instance, Id have trouble doing SLP in a medical setting for more than a couple of years, no matter what the paycheck was on offer.
i have seen many ads for research based non teaching positions at labs , most of them only require an aud, no phd required!!
yeah, but my research indicates that the PhD opens up enough additional opportunities to make it worthwhile if an audiologist doesn't want to work in the clinical environment. Meaning, getting an Aud while knowing one wanted to work in research is backward and will greatly limit you in the end.
@SLP - I greatly appreciate your comments. Don't take my rebuttals as antagonistic. Your perspective is what I need to flesh out my path. Please respond again, if you wish, and have a great night.
Now, to address some of Cidanu's comments
academia doesn't tend to pay well until you've put in your years, published, and acquired tenure. when you're 21 everything is possible and the opportunity cost of not working for 6+ years doesn't seem as great. you have to weigh your costs and benefits. if you love research and that's your dream then it's worth it.
True
The purpose of getting a PhD is to do research.
This is technically true. However, from a practical and self-centered perspective, the purpose of the PhD is to open up specific career opportunities. Those opportunities extend beyond mere research. Teaching, consulting, and administration are the other opportunities that a PhD presents. Additionally, with a clinical cert, I believe that the PhD does instill a greater sense of trust in people if an audiologist ever wanted to open a clinical practice. The consequence of this greater degree of trust, in potentially leading to better professional and business success, shouldn't be underestimated.
also there are research jobs available without PhD's in industry. you're probably more competitive with the PhD but having a master's or an AuD doesn't disqualify you. if you look at a lot of industry research jobs in other fields, most people don't have doctorates because they realize they can make more money dropping out of their PhD program, foregoing a career in academia, and going to work for the industry. that's not what i'm recommending but i'm just saying
.
good point. Is that really why most people don't have PhD's?
I think there is a lot of pressure to get a PhD in our field, because of several things. 1-We're a small field and it's a small applicant pool and programs want to boost their enrollment in PhD programs. 2-There is a need for more research for evidence-based practice. 3-And people think they need a PhD to get respect from MD's. I sympathize with #2 and think that we should all be aware of this as we enter the field and do our part in whatever form that may take. #1 and #3 I don't sympathize so much with. #1 is simply manipulation and #3 is ridiculous.
I agree that the reasoning behind the pursuit of a doctorate should be sound. Although, I disagree that a real increase in respect is a ridiculous reason to pursue a PhD. I agree that it should not be the only reason to do so. However, respect from colleague's is what leads to bigger and better career opportunities. Especially respect from MD's, who are the gatekeepers for higher level positions in medical, and some medically oriented academic, settings. I understand the knee jerk reaction to not want to do something to please others. However, I believe that sometimes doing so is a necessary evil. Especially when long term career aspirations are taken into consideration.
The way to boost the respect of our field is to act respectably. How many doctorates do we freaking need?
I guess that the same question could be applied to Auds. I don't believe that there is a shortage of Auds to address any of the conditions within their scope of practice that do not including hearing aid dispensing. And we know, it doesn't take an Aud to dispense hearing aids. Yet, that is what most do.
Also, how many doctorates in hearing science graduate each year? Not that many. Additionally, many professors and other PhD filled positions will be retiring soon. But you are right, as with any profession, how many of anyone do we need? Its sort of an unanswerable question without some statistics to reference.
Also this was the topic of a previous and heated topic, but I think raising the quality of our AuD programs by raising admission criteria, increasing the rigor, and having appropriate avenues to dismiss students when necessary is another way to increase the respect in our field.
Right. Although, if someone was doing a doctorate purely for respect, then that would be the wrong reason. Conversely, I actually strongly disagree with the field moving to the Aud as the standard. I don't think that the economic reality of clinical practice supports it when scope of practice, competition from HADs, tuition, salaries, and time in school is taken into account.
As I before stated with 'SLP', I greatly appreciate your feedback. Please respond again if you wish.
Thanks again, everyone.
