The Medical mission trip question

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So let me start by saying that this isn't a "is it worth it" thread. I went on my first mission to Honduras last winter vacation and had a life changing experience there, not to mention the effort that went into talking to doctors and pharmacists about acquiring medications for the trip/ fundraising. I met a lot of people in Honduras and it truly changed my perspective of the world.
I stayed involved in the organization all last year and this year and went again, this time to Panama. Once again, there was considerable fundraising and medication acquisition. This trip was somewhat different, however. A young doctor went with us on the trip and explained everything he did to a patient and explained why he asked the patient the questions he asked. For the first time I didn't feel like a pre-med, I felt like a Med student even though i'm not one yet.
I truly felt that we helped a lot of people on these trips.

I absolutely loved these experiences and have no regrets about going, even if some ADCOMs see these trips as useless. This post isn't about "is it worth it" or "are we really helping people" because I feel it was worth it and we did help people.

My real question is: because of my continued involvement with this organization/ multiple trips, plus the hands on medical experience I gained as a result of these trips, will medical schools look favorably upon them?

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They care about your passion! Tell a story about your experience and mention that doctor; illustrate it, don't summarize it. Then make sure your essays and interview responses reflect that...

It's only cliche if you're like "I liked halping these ppl, underprivladge, I gave teh food, water, medicine"

Now in terms of these kinds of trips, remember that there are countless of places here in our very own states that need all kinds of help.
 
I think it's great if you feel like you're getting a lot from these trips. There are schools out there that value global health experience and like seeing applicants gain some exposure to overseas medicine.

That being said, I think what SDNers and many ADCOMS look down upon is the following:
- Thinking that a few medical mission trips add up to sufficient clinical experience (without having other major clinical experience on the homefront)
- Not being able to answer "why did you feel the need to help out in an overseas community when there are many opportunities to serve the underserved in your own community?" in a satisfactory manner.
- Doing medical procedures that only qualified and licensed medical professionals should do. If a premed shouldn't be suturing or giving medical advice while volunteering at a US hospital, they sure as hell shouldn't be doing it anywhere else. Just because it's in a third world country with piss poor regulations doesn't make these kinds of experiences automatically OK.
 
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Continued involvement with any activity is generally looked at as a plus, as is significant clinical experience. The experience being "hands on" isn't going to make a difference (and if it's something a little too "hands on" - as in something you couldn't do in a hospital here - you would do best to not disclose that information).

As Solaire said and huskydock have said, showing maturity and passion for the group is important. If you also do volunteer work in the US demonstrating that you have a genuine commitment to service, that will be looked at favorably as well.
 
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You feel that you got a lot out of those trips. The physician was a volunteer who had the time and inclination to explain things to you in a way that you enjoyed and found worthwhile. This is good.

What you need to do now is to examine the medical mission trip "industry" from the patients' perspective. Are there any negatives to this system of care for the people you serve. Do the existence of these trips discourage the establishment of other systems of care that might be sustainable and provide continuity of care. Take some time to think critically about these trips. Read some of the literature
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs...der-cancelling-your-short-term-mission-trips/

http://www.csm.org/articlewhymost.php

http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/8620/1/Bradke.pdf

be prepared to discuss at interview.
 
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You feel that you got a lot out of those trips. The physician was a volunteer who had the time and inclination to explain things to you in a way that you enjoyed and found worthwhile. This is good.

What you need to do now is to examine the medical mission trip "industry" from the patients' perspective. Are there any negatives to this system of care for the people you serve. Do the existence of these trips discourage the establishment of other systems of care that might be sustainable and provide continuity of care. Take some time to think critically about these trips. Read some of the literature
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs...der-cancelling-your-short-term-mission-trips/

http://www.csm.org/articlewhymost.php

http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/8620/1/Bradke.pdf

be prepared to discuss at interview.

Fascinating read, gave me a lot of perspective on the issue.
 
Relevant post in the news today.

But really, thank you for those links LizzyM!
 
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Now in terms of these kinds of trips, remember that there are countless of places here in our very own states that need all kinds of help.

That is very true! I actually went to Mississippi to rebuild homes for people affected by hurricane Katrina in 2010 and that was a great experience as well!

- Thinking that a few medical mission trips add up to sufficient clinical experience (without having other major clinical experience on the homefront)
- Doing medical procedures that only qualified and licensed medical professionals should do. If a premed shouldn't be suturing or giving medical advice while volunteering at a US hospital, they sure as hell shouldn't be doing it anywhere else. Just because it's in a third world country with piss poor regulations doesn't make these kinds of experiences automatically OK.

I have 3 summers of volunteering and shadowing at a local hospital, but I can't do it any more (I have a 40hr/week summer job every summer now, financial reasons). They even allowed me to watch surgeries, and I thought they were fascinating. As for doing anything unethical, I don't think I did anything like that, however, I doubt I would get treated like a med student in the states

You feel that you got a lot out of those trips. The physician was a volunteer who had the time and inclination to explain things to you in a way that you enjoyed and found worthwhile. This is good.

What you need to do now is to examine the medical mission trip "industry" from the patients' perspective. Are there any negatives to this system of care for the people you serve. Do the existence of these trips discourage the establishment of other systems of care that might be sustainable and provide continuity of care. Take some time to think critically about these trips.

I actually had an interview during this cycle and the trips got brought up. I said along with the direct treatment we and the doctors were able to provide, the medication we brought did just as much good as we did, but the clinical experience was still amazing. As for the ethics of this trip, the way we saw, it was that these people simply would not receive any medical care at all without us. I hope thats a good answer =) Also, the trip wasn't affiliated with any religion like some of those articles mentioned.
 
That is very true! I actually went to Mississippi to rebuild homes for people affected by hurricane Katrina in 2010 and that was a great experience as well!

Wonderful ;):thumbup:
 
I actually had an interview during this cycle and the trips got brought up. I said along with the direct treatment we and the doctors were able to provide, the medication we brought did just as much good as we did, but the clinical experience was still amazing. As for the ethics of this trip, the way we saw, it was that these people simply would not receive any medical care at all without us. I hope thats a good answer =) Also, the trip wasn't affiliated with any religion like some of those articles mentioned.
That's not a great answer, honestly. I think what everyone is getting at is you should recognize that this individual trip largely benefitted you rather than the people you saw. The care you provided won't really have an impact unless it is sustained, which by definition these trips are not. If you went with an organization that works with communities to provide sustained care (e.g. you worked a week in a clinic that is staffed year round by community members), then they very well might be having a significant impact, and you could talk about being a small part of that.

Basically it's going to come off as naive if you talk about the huge impact your trip had on the community, and saying "these people wouldn't have gotten any care without us" doesn't really justify a short term mission trip with no follow-up (assuming that is the case). When done with the right organizations I don't think these trips are as evil as some on here claim, but it's important that you can realistically assess the impact you had in an interview.
 
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That's not a great answer, honestly. I think what everyone is getting at is you should recognize that this individual trip largely benefitted you rather than the people you saw. The care you provided won't really have an impact unless it is sustained, which by definition these trips are not. If you went with an organization that works with communities to provide sustained care (e.g. you worked a week in a clinic that is staffed year round by community members), then they very well might be having a significant impact, and you could talk about being a small part of that.

Basically it's going to come off as naive if you talk about the huge impact your trip had on the community, and saying "these people wouldn't have gotten any care without us" doesn't really justify a short term mission trip with no follow-up (assuming that is the case). When done with the right organizations I don't think these trips are as evil as some on here claim, but it's important that you can realistically assess the impact you had in an interview.

That's some good feed back. I understand what you mean as coming off as naive. The organization I went with also educates community members on public health to hopefully make our efforts not in vain. Trips are also pretty regular down there (every few weeks) How do you think I should word it? More as a learning experience that hopefully helped people in the process?
 
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That's some good feed back. I understand what you mean as coming off as naive. The organization I went with also educates community members on public health to hopefully make our efforts not in vain. Trips are also pretty regular down there (every few weeks) How do you think I should word it? More as a learning experience that hopefully helped people in the process?
Yep, I would focus on what you got out of the trip (clinical experience, the chance to see a new country, direct knowledge of how rewarding volunteerism can be) and your understanding that you were a small piece in a much larger machine working to improve healthcare abroad (education, public health, regular physician visits, etc).

The thesis that LizzyM posted (3rd link I believe) could be very helpful as well. Understanding the criticisms of groups like global brigades will give you a much more thoughtful answer in my opinion!
 
100% agree. If it's part of the road that made you who you are, that's great. If it's something one think will impress us, it won't. The Peace Corps? THAT impresses me!

They care about your passion! Tell a story about your experience and mention that doctor; illustrate it, don't summarize it. Then make sure your essays and interview responses reflect that...

It's only cliche if you're like "I liked halping these ppl, underprivladge, I gave teh food, water, medicine"

Now in terms of these kinds of trips, remember that there are countless of places here in our very own states that need all kinds of help.
 
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Unfortunately, many of these students think that a 5 day trip is a "golden ticket" to medical school as one student told me when I said I wasn't interested in spending $2k in just flight tickets alone. These are the same people who also don't have any long term clinical experience ...

I certainly don't think this is the golden ticket into medical school but I would say that my continued involvement adds something nice to my application that stands out.
 
If your medschool app was a plate of food, then medical mission trips are like small inedible garnishes on the side of the plate. They look nice but aren't essential to the overall application.
 
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So let me start by saying that this isn't a "is it worth it" thread. I went on my first mission to Honduras last winter vacation and had a life changing experience there, not to mention the effort that went into talking to doctors and pharmacists about acquiring medications for the trip/ fundraising. I met a lot of people in Honduras and it truly changed my perspective of the world.
I stayed involved in the organization all last year and this year and went again, this time to Panama. Once again, there was considerable fundraising and medication acquisition. This trip was somewhat different, however. A young doctor went with us on the trip and explained everything he did to a patient and explained why he asked the patient the questions he asked. For the first time I didn't feel like a pre-med, I felt like a Med student even though i'm not one yet.
I truly felt that we helped a lot of people on these trips.


The part where you helped others is where you raised funds and secured medications to bring with you -- not the part where you "helped the poor natives" with your compassion and skill. (I know you didn't say that.)
The part where you benefited was in seeing a different culture and from listening to the skilled and caring young doctor explaining his actions in detail.

So long as you're clear on that, you're fine. Where pre-meds get into trouble is in pretending you learned medical skills and practiced on the people there, and that your unskilled time was worth more than the funds you raised and the medical supplies you brought, and that it was the 'humanitarian mission' that motivated you to go more than the exotic vacation and/or box-checker aspect. Be humble. Be aware that for the $400 you spent on your ticket, you could have provided $400 more of drugs and that spending the money on pharmaceuticals would have benefited the people more.
 
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If your medschool app was a plate of food, then medical mission trips are like small inedible garnishes on the side of the plate. They look nice but aren't essential to the overall application.
Yep. I went to Honduras twice and only one interviewer asked about in over the course of my 8 interviews.
 
Yeah I did a mission trip to India helping kids. Out all my interviews, NO ONE asked me about it. Not sure why, but I did land 11 ii so there must've been something desireable in my app. It does look good on an application (IMO), but it doesn't guarantee anything. Do it if you have the time and money.
 
Where pre-meds get into trouble is in pretending you learned medical skills and practiced on the people there, and that your unskilled time was worth more than the funds you raised and the medical supplies you brought, and that it was the 'humanitarian mission' that motivated you to go more than the exotic vacation and/or box-checker aspect. Be humble. Be aware that for the $400 you spent on your ticket, you could have provided $400 more of drugs and that spending the money on pharmaceuticals would have benefited the people more.

Sadly, donating money to the cause, even though it would do far more for the people, will do far less for your medical school application. That's why pre-meds go so far as to start non-profit organizations, even though current organizations that are far larger and devote everything to the specific cause, will do far more than a pre-med will ever do. So even though the $400 spent on a ticket can be put to better use in order to help the people, I don't think that helping a random group of people thousands of miles away from home is usually the true intention of the pre-med. I'm not saying this to be rude or to insult anyone. I know that there are people who come from certain countries and contribute a lot to where they came from (people like Dikembe Mutombo come to mind), but how many of us here passionately care about the people who live in a village 30 miles south of Yoro, Honduras (I just randomly picked a place)?

I remember when I went to Las Vegas with my girlfriend, we were looking at going to shows. One of the shows was Crazy Horse at the MGM Grand. It's a burlesque show with topless women. Topless women you say? Yeah, I got a little excited. ;) But then I was reading reviews about the show, and some people were saying something along the lines of, "If you want to see topless women so badly, you can save a lot of money and have way more fun if you just go to a strip club." I think that a lot of these mission trips are the same thing. You're trying to find an excuse to have fun while helping your application at the same time. People like @Goro have already said that they view short-term mission trips as "medical tourism." So let's put it this way. If you're looking for an exotic adventure, why don't you take that $2,000 you would have spent on the medical mission trip, and instead find a fun and exciting vacation package in a far more exciting place in the world? You can spend the entire trip doing things on your terms, doing the things you personally enjoy. This would be a far better use of your money. Now if you genuinely care about these people from south of Yoro, then by all means donate money to them. But if you sleep soundly at night knowing that there are people like that in the world in need of help but are unbothered, then that's fine. No one is expecting us to be martyrs for every cause.

Your time would generally be better spent volunteering here and spending your hard-earned money on yourself, whether it's a fun vacation or just buying some cool things before going to medical school. Sure volunteering locally might not be as glamorous as some exotic part of the world, but hey, at least you'll avoid some of the tough criticism that comes from doing such trips.

In the case of the OP, I think that it's good they have a continued commitment. I think that this is not the norm, however, and pre-meds who wish to do a single trip and then never do anything related to it again might raise the suspicions of ADCOMs. Also, as @Goro has said, things like Peace Corps are a far more serious commitment, and that's something they are impressed with. :)
 
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One doesn't have to go far to have a significant impact and be impressive. Teach for America, Habitat for Humanity, and AmeriCorps also get our attention in a rapid and good way. Even Meals on Wheels!


Also, as @Goro has said, things like Peace Corps are a far more serious commitment, and that's something they are impressed with. :)[/quote]
 
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My real question is: because of my continued involvement with this organization/ multiple trips, plus the hands on medical experience I gained as a result of these trips, will medical schools look favorably upon them?

According to the MSQ, 35% of students matriculating in 2013 had done "international volunteering." It's hard to say how much it helped their application, but it probably didn't hurt it either. I like the idea of "garnish."

A cynic could criticize US-based Habitat for Humanity projects, Teach for America, Americorps, "alternative spring break" to Appalachia or New Orleans trips, etc in the same way that people like @LizzyM question the utility of international trips. Reading cringeworthy essays about the brown people whose lives were dramatically impacted during a 7 day medical brigade to Honduras must get tedious, but I know Peace Corps volunteers who readily admit that their net impact on the community or the underlying problems was zero. Teaching English in Chengdu, China as a PCV? Give me a break. Do they still play it up for admissions? Sure. If you keep going down the slope, why not take a cynical view of the entire medical profession, and just decide that in most situations doctors can't really help all that much.

As long as you're thinking critically about the value and efficacy of whatever you're doing and doing it with a genuine heart (not just to garnish your resume), it will be a worthwhile experience. And, if you're lucky, you might actually help somebody.
 
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Peace Corps volunteers who readily admit that their net impact on the community or the underlying problems was zero. Teaching English in Chengdu, China as a PCV? Give me a break. Do they still play it up for admissions? Sure.

The difference, in my opinion, is that giving 2 years of your life as a volunteer shows a great generosity of spirit and a sense of adventure and a tolerance for hardship that far surpasses the efforts made in the typical "mission trip". Furthermore, one always gains language skills, humility, and a greater knowledge of one's self and one's limitations in a 27 month Peace Corps experience which is why PCV are so highly valued in med schools and in many other fields.
 
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You feel that you got a lot out of those trips. The physician was a volunteer who had the time and inclination to explain things to you in a way that you enjoyed and found worthwhile. This is good.

What you need to do now is to examine the medical mission trip "industry" from the patients' perspective. Are there any negatives to this system of care for the people you serve. Do the existence of these trips discourage the establishment of other systems of care that might be sustainable and provide continuity of care. Take some time to think critically about these trips. Read some of the literature
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs...der-cancelling-your-short-term-mission-trips/

http://www.csm.org/articlewhymost.php

http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/8620/1/Bradke.pdf

be prepared to discuss at interview.
SDN article from 06/2012. http://www.studentdoctor.net/2012/07/medical-missions-what-makes-us-think-were-qualified/
 
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Can anyone help me determine whether a mission trip associated with a university is any different from the mission trips (religious, organizational affiliated) that are negatively looked upon? After reading LizzyM's post about unuseful, short-termed medical interventions, I have the impression that my university's mission trip to Honduras is also a short relief to a long pain (useless).

Here's a description:
There will be a couple Medical students, a couple undergraduate students, around 3 professors, nurses, pharmacy students, and a couple of other professions from my University and my university's med school.

When the interviewer for the mission trip spoke with me in regards to going on the trip, she explicitly stated that it's not going to be a vacation. We might "get to go to the beach once or twice, but that's not what we're going to go there for".

She said that we'll be working from early morning to late at night. We'll be split into small groups and will be rotating around stations, so it'll be:
Station 1-taking medical records of patients
Station 2-educating patients on dietary and sanitary controls (controlling diabetes, washing hands, brushing teeth, etc)
The two other stations are not extremely influential, so I chose to leave them out of the description. We as undergraduates will not be allowed to diagnose or prescribe. We are only allowed to do minor jobs. Before traveling to Honduras, we will be trained to do our jobs.
According to her, we will be packed with patients.

I at first thought that it'd be a great experience because I'd be able to volunteer, gain academic credits (we get a certain number of academics for a course, and we will be doing a small project for the credits, in addition to our volunteering), help an underserved population, and understand the role of Public Health as a means of critical prevention.

However, as the article that LizzyM posted points out, our presence will not aid in anyway, because it's not a prolonged service (I at first thought that the mission trip to Honduras is a continuous, yearly trip to the same area, but the interviewer said that they switch locations). Therefore, the mission trip juxtaposes its main mission...I am conflicted. Any advice is greatly appreciated! :heckyeah:
Medical tourism
 
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If my university's medical school is also participating in the mission trip, does that mean that they value such a mission trip? If yes, could you guess as to why they'd value it, if it's not beneficial to the patients? I know that there's a large discrepancy upon mission trips, but according to the article that LizzyM posted (and I agree with the article's reasonings), shouldn't all universities (especially med schools) not encourage such trips?
Who is organizing this trip? A club? Or the University proper?
 
All arrangements are made through the University. My university has several mission trips, and the mission trip to Honduras is one of them. The mission trips are all proposed by faculty members of the University, and needs to be approved by the University board. We, the students, will be paying the University for academic credits. Flights, eating, shelter, etc, are all made possible through my University.

My University's mission places an emphasis on community service, and serving the underserved, if that helps to clarify. My interviewer explicitly stated that there will be no night outs, little to no lunch breaks, only 1-2 beach visits (if we want), and we will be working from early morning to late at night.
This sounds better than the typical CV builder trips.
 
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Even if we're only going to be there for about four weeks to a month? :shy:

a 4 week trip would be a lot of money no? volunteering abroad is great and all but why spend insane amounts of money to help people when you can help people for free in your own community? as a broke undergrad when I saw some of the prices for these trips, I ran the other way...
 
If you are going abroad for college credits, fine. Go. The credits are on your transcript. The experience makes its mark on your mind and heart. You are under no obligation to list the experience in the experience section of the application. You were taking class credit that term so your time was accounted for. If you did want to list it you could call it "other" and title it "study abroad in ___".
 
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I think "when helping hurts" is a great read. I went into medicine to do mission work and have a vastly different perspective on mission now than I did back when I started undergrad and medical school.

The only short term medical work worth anything (if there is not a continuous presence) is surigcally related medical missions where something can be accomplished in a short period that will be worthwhile and hopefully a team will be back to follow up.

More substantial medical mission work trains providers in the home country to do the work. This way you are teaching them to fish instead of fishing for them.

Unfortunately, most mission work is completely self serving and 100% unhelpful.

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I’m going to disagree here with the general tone of the thread. As long as you are being medically responsible within your scope of training, it’s fine. (Whether or not adcoms will act like that is different)

You are certainly better to open a nursing school in africa than show up for a week, but only one of those is possible for you right now and frankly if it was so easy to recruit donations for all this ongoing care people harp about it would be more prevelant than these short term trips.....but it isn’t

This whole thing is like screaming at you for giving a homeless guy a sandwhich on your way out of jimmy johns. “You selfish a—hole, that was just about you. Don’t you know that he’s better off if you provide housing, college education, and financial literacy training with consistent mental helath and substance abuse support?!?!”

Well of course that’s better, but you have $4 and no time so the guy gets a sandwich.

Don’t take a selfie with the guy, don’t write a book about your sacrifice, but by all means get the dude a sandwich if you want
 
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I’m going to disagree here with the general tone of the thread. As long as you are being medically responsible within your scope of training, it’s fine. (Whether or not adcoms will act like that is different)

You are certainly better to open a nursing school in africa than show up for a week, but only one of those is possible for you right now and frankly if it was so easy to recruit donations for all this ongoing care people harp about it would be more prevelant than these short term trips.....but it isn’t

This whole thing is like screaming at you for giving a homeless guy a sandwhich on your way out of jimmy johns. “You selfish a—hole, that was just about you. Don’t you know that he’s better off if you provide housing, college education, and financial literacy training with consistent mental helath and substance abuse support?!?!”

Well of course that’s better, but you have $4 and no time so the guy gets a sandwich.

Don’t take a selfie with the guy, don’t write a book about your sacrifice, but by all means get the dude a sandwich if you want
I agree with what you are saying. Buy the dude a sandwich.

My picture was more towards big picture philosophy on the subject.

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Looking over threads related to medical tourism/volunteering, it seems that there are some strong opinions on the matter. For example, the most recent AAMC survey had this to say about the medical tourism:

Member schools expressed significant concern with regards to premedical students engaging in unsupervised clinical activities in international settings. In particular, 45-50% of those schools completing the survey described applicant involvement in invasive procedures in international settings as either harmful to, or of no value to, their application. Examples of such invasive procedures include giving vaccinations, suturing an injury, pulling teeth, and delivering a baby. This concern of admissions officers persisted, albeit at lower levels (35-40% of respondents), when the students were supervised by a health professional while performing such invasive procedures in international settings.

Generally, the advice that I've seen is that the inclusion of these activities won't improve your application. If the benefit of incorporating these controversial activities is limited, then I am wondering if these activities would be better off omitted from one's application altogether.
 
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