the old quitting DO going MD, with a twist?

[MyBeauTulane]

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to start off, this is for my friend, not me. also, i am not being a "troll" here, i am genuinely looking for help for her. does anyone have any experience with this situation:

Ok, so, my friend is in DO school but hates it and is getting a ton of getting federal loans. How would it work if she quit and went to MD school? Would she have to start paying on those loans NOW or could they be added onto from the MD school assuming the total balance stays below the 180something maximum and then start paying back like she normally would have?

Also along those lines, she has no desire to transfer into a ms2 or ms3 position, but to just completely start over even though she would be leaving the DO school at the end of her ms2 year. She retook the mcat and went from a 24 to a 33 and has a 3.4 gpa. Would the MD school know she went to a DO school before? Is she required to say? would it matter if she said? i think she said she is about average in the class, grade wise.

finally how would it affect the DO school? is it really bad for that school or just someone they dont get an extra 2 yrs of money from??

I guess she was hoping that since there is the aacomas and the amcas separately, that there would not be communication between the two in applying.

she just doesnt want to go to the DO school anymore badly enough that she would be will to start completely over. just a personal choice, no good solid extenuating circumstance. a transfer would be great, but not needed.

we appreciate the help.

 

[Megalofyia]

She can't start at any new school without letting them know about the DO school. She would run the risk of losing her licence later if she did do this and someone found out.
Regardless of her new MCAT score she may have a very hard time starting over at a new school in the US if not an impossible time. It will look rather strange to just change for the letters after your name.

 

[uL007]

She can't start at any new school without letting them know about the DO school. She would run the risk of losing her licence later if she did do this and someone found out.
Regardless of her new MCAT score she may have a very hard time starting over at a new school in the US if not an impossible time. It will look rather strange to just change for the letters after your name.

why would she lose her license? i just helped my brother fill out his amcas application and they ask: "Have you ever matriculated at or attended any medical schools as a candidate for any MD degree?" the instructions for AMCAS 2006 state to only answer yes if you have ever matriculated into an allopathic program regardless of country. i haven't read anywhere where it states you have to disclose if you've attended an osteopathic institution. as long as she honestly completes her application, i see no threat to her future as a physician.

now that being said, the AMCAS application also requires you to list all colleges you have ever attended and provide transcripts. so... since your friend attended a med school somewhere for two years, she would have to send her transcripts from that school. plus, i think any med school will want to know what she's been up to for the last two years... don't you think?

i'm a second year DO student. at the end of our first year, one student dropped out after getting accepted to an MD school. i don't really know how he applied, but i'm assuming he sent out his AMCAS application before starting med school in fall. so he really didn't have any med school transcripts to worry about.

as far as your friend in concerned, if she is going to drop out and start fresh, she's taking a major plunge. she can't claim that there is "no good solid extenuating circumstance" for her to drop out of school. That's only going to make her seem like an uncommitted applicant. every school has its pros and cons. she might have to discuss her reason to drop out of DO school during her interviews. she needs to be strong and pick a reason and stand by it.

(i know my classmate was dissatisfied with our curriculum - we had a constant flow of exams.... sometimes 5 exams in a week! he used this to claim that he was constantly cramming and did not feel as though he was learning. so he used that reason for wanting to start over and attend a medical school that makes him feel more confidant as a student).

 

[uL007]

i just remembered something i've once read on this forum.

it is not unheard of for DOs to complete their education and then decide to get an MD degree as well (i.e. attend two years in a caribbean school or whatever).

so if your friend wants to go MD... i don't see why it would be taboo.

oh and here's a crazy idea: why not talk to the dean of admissions at the school she's interested in? they are there to help. they could provide her with the best info. don't be scared. be bold and find out what you want to know. remember, she's paying them for an education.

 

[Megalofyia]

You answered your question with the next paragraph. I'm pretty convinced that the adcoms are not *****s and would figure out that she'd been a DO student for the previous two years when they see her transcripts.
She'd lose her licence if she decided not to send those transcripts and later somewhere down the line it came up that she didn't disclose a school she'd attended. It would be considered fraud.

 

[Anonymous_Uzer]

Where exactly are you getting your information from, Mega?

 

[FutureDocDO]

Where exactly are you getting your information from, Mega?

Read any of the schools' policy/website, you'll see it spelled out.

 

[beastmaster]

So instead of preparing for the the boards, this friend will waste time flying to interviews, preparing explanations for this twisted mess, crying over getting waitlisted, etc?

Even if there is true hatred for her school, that hatred has to be towards the first 2 years, which she will be done with.

What happens if she isn't accepted? She will have finished 2 years of school in a state of limbo? If she considers this an unacceptable possibility, why not just drop out now instead of paying for an extra year.

 

[QofQuimica]

FWIW, I think dropping out of DO school and trying to reapply to MD school at this point would be a huge mistake, carrying tons of risk for very little potential reward. Your friend is in her second year of school already. She may be hating her classes now, but she won't be taking them for much longer. Plenty of med students, both MD and DO, don't particularly enjoy their classes during the first two years, but the good news is that you don't spend the rest of your working life as a physician taking basic science classes. If she can just tough it out for the rest of this school year, she will start her rotations this summer, and she may feel completely different about her program at that point. At the end of the four years, she will have her degree, and she can then do whatever she likes with it, including applying for an allopathic residency.

What I suggest is that you advise her to take advantage of whatever counseling services are available at her school. Encourage her to talk to older students who may be able to give her some perspective about her concerns and support her while she's going through her difficult time. She may be able to do some things to make the rest of this year more enjoyable for herself, or at least more tolerable, so that she can get through it and make it to her rotations. Please try to discourage her from dropping out of school and going on a wild goose chase, unless she just doesn't want to be a physician any more. In that case, I would agree that she should drop out of medical school. But since she retook the MCAT and is thinking of applying again, she seems to want to be a physician still, so her surest bet at this point is to continue forward with her current program and stop looking back. She's well past the point where she should be considering whether she wants to go to MD vs. DO school, and if she continues on with this half-baked plan, she could easily end up not being a doctor at all.

 

[NRAI2001]

Yea, don't give up now. From what i hear the second two years are almost identical for both MD and DO schools. Do DO's perform OMM during the second two years?

If she really really wants that md, I wouldn't do it, I think the university of Antigua grants DO's MDs.

 

[rob14599]

Why not try to transfer first? Some MD schools will take transfers from DO schools. Dropping out and trying to reapply to MD schools would be a HUGE mistake. Transfers between schools though are dang near impossible. First you have to have a REALLY good reason to transfer, and "I want MD after my name" won't cut it. Second, there has to be an opening in the 2nd or 3rd year class of the school you are trying to transfer to, and students from other allopathic schools will get first crack at transferring. Third, you have to have killer grades and LORs from your current school. Fourth, not many schools will take transfers from DO schools (Wayne State will consider DO students for transfer, but you BETTER be from Michigan or it's no dice).

 

[NRAI2001]

You could make an openining in the MD class......whahahah whahahwhwhawah.

 

[DaveinDallas]

Yea, don't give up now. From what i hear the second two years are almost identical for both MD and DO schools. Do DO's perform OMM during the second two years?

If she really really wants that md, I wouldn't do it, I think the university of Antigua grants DO's MDs.

I can't speak for other schools but 3rd years have an OMM rotation at TCOM.

 

[NRAI2001]

I can't speak for other schools but 3rd years have an OMM rotation at TCOM.

How long is the OMM rotation?

 

[PhDtoDO]

I know several people who have TRANSFERRED fromDO schools to MD schools...or from carribean schools to Tulane where my boyfriend graduated.

It happens, just not that often.

Also, as for the loans...they will all be deferred until she completely finishes school and even then she can request an extended deferment.

If she drops out, it could be bad. She should put in transfer applications asap and talkto some MD schools about their openness to accepting tranfers from DO schools and maybe she could pick up a few classes if need be.

I don't think she'll be able to get back in to any med schoolif she drops out though...if anything she could transfer to a carribean MD school that is more of a for profit situation and more likely to work with her if she can't find a school state side willing to flex for her.

She's got plenty of options...ABSOLUTELY NOT! She could drop out of the DO and start a mastersand all the loans would stay in deferment as long as she is in some kind of school...you don't have to pay your undergrad loans while your in med school..of course not...they all add up until you get out of school...any school.

Wish your friend luck for me!

sarah

 

[Monitor]

If you can say with conviction why you want to change from DO to MD... DO wasn't what you thought is was going to be like, You've come to find yourself more interested in the Allopathic model, You now consider yourself a solid enough candidate to apply, but you were not before your MCAT improved. If you can sell it to yourself and sell it to the admissions people, then do it.

At my school, all the DMD kids take the same science courses as the MD kids for the first 2 years (they have a lower pass requirement) and we had a Dental student finish year 1, withdraw from the program, apply to medical school, and now he is 2 years behind my class, but he is going to get the MD he really really wanted.

Hell tell them you want an Allopathic Education from a US School because everyone knows that residency programs discriminate against DO and FMG applicants. It is true and no one will ask you another question about it. Say you want a Derm, Neurosurg, or Orthopedic Surg Residency and as a US MD applicant you have a shot.

Thoughts about applying, you'll need (or your friend) will need to come clean about DO school, because FINANCIAL AID is attached and they will need to report all the places they accepted Financial Aid. A med school can throw you out any time they want, so if you lie and get in, then the financial aid officer brings it to the Dean's attention that you had 2 years of financial aid from a DO school, the Dean can call you in and then throw you out for unethical behavior... lying, withholding the truth, failure to disclose...

And what would you say you were doing during those 2 years anyway?? They will notice a 1 week, or 1 month GAP, not to mention 2 years unaccounted for on your application.

Put all your cards on the table and tote your strengths, address and answer questions about the least favorable parts of your application, and get back to talking about your strengths.

I know several people who have TRANSFERRED fromDO schools to MD schools...or from carribean schools to Tulane where my boyfriend graduated.

It happens, just not that often.

Also, as for the loans...they will all be deferred until she completely finishes school and even then she can request an extended deferment.

If she drops out, it could be bad. She should put in transfer applications asap and talkto some MD schools about their openness to accepting tranfers from DO schools and maybe she could pick up a few classes if need be.

I don't think she'll be able to get back in to any med schoolif she drops out though...if anything she could transfer to a carribean MD school that is more of a for profit situation and more likely to work with her if she can't find a school state side willing to flex for her.

She's got plenty of options...ABSOLUTELY NOT! She could drop out of the DO and start a mastersand all the loans would stay in deferment as long as she is in some kind of school...you don't have to pay your undergrad loans while your in med school..of course not...they all add up until you get out of school...any school.

Wish your friend luck for me!

sarah

 

[Monitor]

😱 😱 😱

Are you serious? That is the funniest thing I've heard today. That thought assumes that the DO and MD education systems are equal and they are not. The focus is different and DO education is considered by many to be inferior. If you dispute this fact, please address the significant advantage US-MDs have in obtaining the most desirable residency positions year after year after year. Even the worst Allopathic Grads from US schools are chosen over DO and FMG for the most part.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME TRYING TO TRANSFER

Schools in LA are well known to be at the bottom of the Acedemic Food Chain. Look in any reference for what scores they require... 7s and 8s on each section of the MCAT on average (meaning people go there with 5s and 6s ).

I know several people who have TRANSFERRED fromDO schools to MD schools...or from carribean schools to Tulane where my boyfriend graduated.

It happens, just not that often.

Also, as for the loans...they will all be deferred until she completely finishes school and even then she can request an extended deferment.

If she drops out, it could be bad. She should put in transfer applications asap and talkto some MD schools about their openness to accepting tranfers from DO schools and maybe she could pick up a few classes if need be.

I don't think she'll be able to get back in to any med schoolif she drops out though...if anything she could transfer to a carribean MD school that is more of a for profit situation and more likely to work with her if she can't find a school state side willing to flex for her.

She's got plenty of options...ABSOLUTELY NOT! She could drop out of the DO and start a mastersand all the loans would stay in deferment as long as she is in some kind of school...you don't have to pay your undergrad loans while your in med school..of course not...they all add up until you get out of school...any school.

Wish your friend luck for me!

sarah

 

[USArmyDoc]

😱 😱 😱

Are you serious? That is the funniest thing I've heard today. That thought assumes that the DO and MD education systems are equal and they are not. The focus is different and DO education is considered by many to be inferior. If you dispute this fact, please address the significant advantage US-MDs have in obtaining the most desirable residency positions year after year after year. Even the worst Allopathic Grads from US schools are chosen over DO and FMG for the most part.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME TRYING TO TRANSFER

Schools in LA are well known to be at the bottom of the Acedemic Food Chain. Look in any reference for what scores they require... 7s and 8s on each section of the MCAT on average (meaning people go there with 5s and 6s ).

Once again, Monitor is showing himself to be a worthless piece of shiat!

 

[USArmyDoc]

Monitor.....please I am actually waiting for your response. It shows one more example of why your mom should of swallowed you. 😀

 

[molarama]

Monitor.....please I am actually waiting for your response. It shows one more example of why your mom should of swallowed you. 😀

FYI DMD students DO NOT have a lower pass requirement than the MDs. that's utter nonsense. In fact in my school we routinely score higher grades in head and neck anatomy and other classes. But this is not a competition between the two. Stop trying to compete with everyone dude.

 

[medhacker]

This is an interesting thread, can't wait to see how it turns out.

MyBeauTulane what has your friend decided after a month?

 

[NRAI2001]

How difficult is it to transfer from a DO to MD school? Transfer as like a 2 or 3 year, not reapply.

 

[iwillbesoon]

I think more MDs get "better" rotations because there's so many more of them. Take the top 10% of all the DO's, and the top 10% of the MDs...and, yes, there are more MD's getting sought-after positions.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
If your friend used federal loans to attend DO school then there will be the need to send a financial aid transcript in order to borrow more money. Your friend's DO school will show up on the financial aid transcript report if your friend fills out the FAFSA for federal loans.

The best thing to do is to report every school attended since secondary school and hope for the best. If all else fails, transfer into an allopathic school. The worst thing to do is to not report every school attended post secondary school.

Good luck
njbmd 🙂

 

[medhacker]

Hi there,
If your friend used federal loans to attend DO school then there will be the need to send a financial aid transcript in order to borrow more money. Your friend's DO school will show up on the financial aid transcript report if your friend fills out the FAFSA for federal loans.

The best thing to do is to report every school attended since secondary school and hope for the best. If all else fails, transfer into an allopathic school. The worst thing to do is to not report every school attended post secondary school.

Good luck
njbmd 🙂

wouldn't the same apply for anyone trying to conceal an undergrad record? wouldn't it show in their FA transcript and thus be busted on the spot?

 

[raptor5]

How long is the OMM rotation?

At PCOM it is 4 weeeks but 1 week is with the OMM dept. going over all techniques learned in the first two years. The final 3 weeks are spent w/ a family doc who does OMM or in an academic setting.

 

[Pharos]

to start off, this is for my friend, not me. also, i am not being a "troll" here, i am genuinely looking for help for her. does anyone have any experience with this situation:

Ok, so, my friend is in DO school but hates it and is getting a ton of getting federal loans. How would it work if she quit and went to MD school? Would she have to start paying on those loans NOW or could they be added onto from the MD school assuming the total balance stays below the 180something maximum and then start paying back like she normally would have?

Also along those lines, she has no desire to transfer into a ms2 or ms3 position, but to just completely start over even though she would be leaving the DO school at the end of her ms2 year. She retook the mcat and went from a 24 to a 33 and has a 3.4 gpa. Would the MD school know she went to a DO school before? Is she required to say? would it matter if she said? i think she said she is about average in the class, grade wise.

finally how would it affect the DO school? is it really bad for that school or just someone they dont get an extra 2 yrs of money from??

I guess she was hoping that since there is the aacomas and the amcas separately, that there would not be communication between the two in applying.

she just doesnt want to go to the DO school anymore badly enough that she would be will to start completely over. just a personal choice, no good solid extenuating circumstance. a transfer would be great, but not needed.

we appreciate the help.

As far as the loans - I belive they can be deferred essentially forever while in school (although, interest is accruing - wonderfull isn't it). Ok - this may be a crazy question, but why does she not want to transfer? Is there a particular MD school she wants to attend that does not take transfers? (If so, this could be why). Because yes, there are schools such as Buffalo University in western NY that take transfers as 3rd years. I am just a lowly pre-med, so this isn't gosphel, but from what I understand the content of the first two years of either osteo or allo programs med school, with exception to OMM are the same (hence the transfer possibility). Obviously there may be some philosophical/approach difference, but the basic sciences are the same.

Is there something specific about just this school that she hates, because if not - I also suspect that she might hate an MD institution just as badly. Also, if she's already finished years one and two, the next two are spent rotating, etc, away form the school (so whatever she hated so much about years one and two may not longer exist).

Although, on second thought it sounds to me like she is having a hang-up on the DO degree, itself. If so, she needs to do whatever will make her happy, but yikes - that's a lot of work to give up and start over again. If the discontent really isn't over the DO degree specifically and really the school, she should realize that she could end up even unhappier at the next place (the grass isn't always greener). Anyways, good luck on either approach.

 

[jbone]

Monitor.....please I am actually waiting for your response. It shows one more example of why your mom should of swallowed you. 😀

That was awesome...need I say more?

 

[FoughtFyr]

wouldn't the same apply for anyone trying to conceal an undergrad record? wouldn't it show in their FA transcript and thus be busted on the spot?

Yep, it would. And it doesn't matter if you apply for private student loans or even try medical school without loans. Anyplace with a federal financial aid program has access to the database that lists where you've attended, all of your loans, where and when they were disbursed, and what federal eligibility you have remaining. In the first week of medical school, we had a presentation by the financial aid folks. They had printed it all out for us so we could plan - even if you did not take out financial aid for medical school. The printout even listed a place that I took one class (thankfully I did include it on my AMCAS) even though I did not receive aid there. I think that all schools report you to the database to support their own eligibility. Bottom line... DO NOT LIE ON YOUR AMCAS APPLICATION!

- H