The only thing that matters for surgery

[JamalJ]

(General, ortho, vascular, neuro etc)

So this is what my mentor told me. The only thing you really need is a solid LOR from a renowned surgeon. As long as you pass school, what really matters is a LOR.

Of course, if you don't have an LOR from a renowned surgeon, then grades/STEP/research/aways matters.

I remember reading about a Nobel prize winner (I think it was John Nash). Basically, the Princeton PhD Math program accepted him because his undergrad professor gave him a letter saying: "He's the most brilliant guy I know" (Or something like that). So the PhD program never cared about his grades/ECs, etc because of the letter from a renowned Professor.

So if you can get such a letter from a top surgeon, you have made it.

By renown I mean: Senior faculty at MGH/UCSF/Mayo MN (not FL/AZ)/Columbia/ etc. Basically, the best of the best. All you need to do is impress one of those guys and you are in.

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[Goro]

You were told wrong.

Wise @ThoracicGuy thoughts?

 

[JamalJ]

You were told wrong.

Wise @ThoracicGuy thoughts?

Why are you saying this? This is what I was told directly by a surgeon with solid connections in organized medicine.

But that being said, getting such a rec is no easy task. But if a top guy likes you, he'll make calls and get you in.

 

[operaman]

Yeah 1985 called and wants its advice back.

While a well known letter writer helps, it won’t overcome a flock of red flags. The people on the receiving end of the call awol simply say “nice. If he’s so great why don’t you train him!?”

Now if you have an otherwise solid but maybe not crazy superstar level app and get some solid backing, then that’s another matter. But the applicant needs to be at a level the program would actually consider. High powered phone call can easily get you off the short list and into the interview pile, but that’s about it.

 

[JamalJ]

Yeah 1985 called and wants its advice back.

While a well known letter writer helps, it won’t overcome a flock of red flags. The people on the receiving end of the call awol simply say “nice. If he’s so great why don’t you train him!?”

Now if you have an otherwise solid but maybe not crazy superstar level app and get some solid backing, then that’s another matter. But the applicant needs to be at a level the program would actually consider. High powered phone call can easily get you off the short list and into the interview pile, but that’s about it.

Oh yeah I mean if you failed Step, classes, etc of course not. But I mean like if you are average or so, and you do research with a top surgeon, and this surgeon wants you in his program, then for sure you will get in or at least get into another good program.

Also, no one is going to say "why don't you train him" because they know a lot of times they don't have enough spots, especially for ent and neuro. so for example, Princeton took John Nash from Carnage Mellon, so the Princeton program didn't say, "Why don't you take him."

 

[operaman]

Oh yeah I mean if you failed Step, classes, etc of course not. But I mean like if you are average or so, and you do research with a top surgeon, and this surgeon wants you in his program, then for sure you will get in or at least get into another good program.

Also, no one is going to say "why don't you train him" because they know a lot of times they don't have enough spots, especially for ent and neuro. so for example, Princeton took John Nash from Carnage Mellon, so the Princeton program didn't say, "Why don't you take him."

I’m not sure exactly what kind of surgery program John Nash was doing at Princeton, but in the real world I’ve personally witnessed famous recommenders get told “sounds like he’s been great for you - maybe you should train him.”

Best bet for the pull of any mentor is their home program. Nobody will have more pull anywhere else.

Letters are very important, but in my world that’s only in the context of already stellar applications. Where you have 80-100 apps with 265+ steps, all honors, lots of pubs - powerful letters can be what distinguishes someone from the crowd. But it’s not going to magically elevate a 240 with P/HPs and minimal pubs into an interview.

It ends up being a moot point as the old crusty famous surgeons tend to be very stingy with their praise. No mediocre student is going to earn a great recommendation anyhow. John Nash wasn’t exactly a slouch!

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

This post is literally n = 1.

You know what is not n = 1? Charting outcomes of the match.

It's s great you have this connection with Dr. Whoever who invented the Dingle maneuver, but a lot of old docs have literally no clue what medicine and admissions is like today. Everything matters, including but not limited to LORs. A lot of students have glowing LORs AND a high Step 2 AND research and so on.

On top of that, not every PD knows every single "Big Name", unless you get a letter from Rudolf Virchow. Academics primarily know people in their very select field of interest. I know neurologists who knows the big names in Movement Disorders, but couldn't tell you the big names in Neurovascular or MS. Big name is so relative that it hardly matters for most of us.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Locked, as the OP has been banned for trolling