The osteopathic question

[TexasTriathlete]

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THIS IS NOT AN MD VS. DO THREAD! I AM NOT TRYING TO COMPARE THE TWO DEGREES IN A "WHICH ONE IS BETTER?" WAY!

Every osteopathic school we are applying to seems to want to evaluate our understanding of osteopathic medicine. There will be a question on almost every secondary application like "Why do you think you would be a good osteopathic physician?" or something along those lines.

So the question is... how does an osteopathic physician differ from an allopathic physician?

In the trauma center where I volunteer, I asked one of the DO's about this. He told me that, traditionally, about 50% of DO's are family practice docs, and some of them do a lot of the "chiropractic" manipulation stuff. However, most DO's who don't do family practice in a small town will do very little OMM, and after that, there is no difference. And from what I have observed in the ER, the DO's and MD's do the exact same thing. Often, there will be a DO resident taking instructions from an MD attending, or vice-versa.

In fact, not all the docs there list MD or DO after their name. Their tag or their scrubs might just say "Dr. xxxxxx", and you can't even tell who is an MD and who is a DO.

Now here is my thought...

I like OMM, but I don't want it to be a cornerstone of my career. Otherwise, I would just go to DC school. But as an athlete, coach, strength and conditioning specialist, and personal trainer, I can tell you for a fact that there are benefits to things like active release, myofascial release, and other similar techniques.

Here in Austin, there is a place called "Advanced Rehabilitation", and they are basically a bunch of chiropractors who work on athletes. At most of the races I do, they usually have a tent set up with tables, and they'll give you a quick once-over after you finish. It is a freaking life saver. I do it almost every time. My IT band gets stuck to my hamstrings or my vastus medialis, my psoases get short and tight after sitting in my aerobars for so long. And these dudes take care of me.

Would it be possible to specialize in something, say anesthesiology, surgery, whatever, and then start a clinic like Advanced Rehabilitation, hire chiropractors, and work on athletes? Maybe work races? I don't know that I'd do a lot of the manipulation myself, as I would be busy with my actual medical practice/working at the hospital/whatever, but I do believe in the theories of OMM for certain purposes. Would this be realistic? And would this be a good thing to put in the millions of essay questions that ask me about my thoughts on osteopathic medicine?

Also, is "there is no difference between DO and MD, unless you do a lot of OMM" a bad thing to put down, even though everybody in the profession knows it is reality?

And on another note... THE VINCE YOUNG SHOW IS ABOUT TO START!!!!

 

[LauraDO]

This is why I"m interested in PM&R as a speciality, it takes the physical into account and actively works with it but isn't just about the physical it works with everything that is important for rehab or pain relieve, the whole picture, which is more than just craking peoples backs. OMM is powerful not just because it is a worth while form of physical medicine but because you learn it in conjunction with the physiological/biochemical processes of pathogenisis as a whole

what I just saide might not have made any sense because in reading it over i'm not sure if it does, but just know that it makes sense in my own head, I know what I"m talking about, I'm just too mentally advanced to put my thoughts in the form of the english language

 

[Jpc984]

The thing about osteopathic medicine and OMM is it is another tool in your arsenal in the addition of "conventional" medicine. You may not use it, but you are trained to use it if needed. Many people are CPR trained, but never use it. This does not mean it is not important.

 

[spicedmanna]

I like OMM, but I don't want it to be a cornerstone of my career. Otherwise, I would just go to DC school.

Not everything in OMM is HVLA.

 

[EEL08]

what I just saide might not have made any sense because in reading it over i'm not sure if it does, but just know that it makes sense in my own head, I know what I"m talking about, I'm just too mentally advanced to put my thoughts in the form of the english language

That's great, I love it.

 

[spicedmanna]

As a side note, even if you don't dig OMM, as a student of osteopathic medicine, you'll have way more experience touching patients and relating to them by the time you hit rotations. It's just the nature of our art.

And OMM isn't all manipulation, either. It adds to your understanding of your patient. You can listen with your hands.

 

[Jpc984]

As a side note, even if you don't dig OMM, as a student of osteopathic medicine, you'll have way more experience touching patients and relating to them by the time you hit rotations. It's just the nature of our art.

Good point! The early clinical exposure is a plus!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Not everything in OMM is HVLA.

A lot of DC's do much more than HVLA too. Myofascial release, active release, etc.

It is good stuff, but hardly what I want to do with my medical education.

TOUCHDOWN VINCE YOUNG!!!

 

[spicedmanna]

A lot of DC's do much more than HVLA too. Myofascial release, active release, etc.

It is good stuff, but hardly what I want to do with my medical education.

I also mean that OMM isn't just manipulation technique that you use. It's part of how you approach a clinical situation and your patient. In this sense, you can apply OMM to a variety of clinical scenarios, not just to relieve direct MSK dysfunctions. You don't need OMM to be the "cornerstone" of your career to be practicing osteopathic medicine. OMM teaches you to relate a variety of dysfunctions through the neuro-MSK system. Furthermore, as a physician trained in osteopathic medicine, you would have the opportunity to learn how to use your "hand scanner" in conjunction with other types of advanced imaging studies and laboratory tests.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Okay, well I still have much to learn.

Lendale White is a fat douche.

 

[madscientist50]

I find that OMT class really helps integrate what I learn in anatomy into how it will help me on practice one day. Seeing a muscle in a body is one thing, but learning how it feels in all aspects in a live person is a whole different experience.

It also helps to reinforce all those bony land marks you learn in anatomy and all the actions of the muslces.

And thats just its benefits to you while your in school.

Just my thoughts.

 

[scpod]

Okay, well I still have much to learn.

The class that we actually take is called Osteopathic Principles and Practices (OPP) where you learn a lot of history, theory, and other things in addition to just manipulation. My school is an all PBL format, so we learn basic sciences through medical cases. There was actually a movement of professors at one point who wanted to remove the osteopathic exam from out cases because it was too easy to diagnose. For instance, the results of the osteopathic exam could lead you straight tot the pancreas due to the thoracic segments involved.

In your first year you learn a lot of techniques but you don't usually begin to apply them until your second year. You begin incorporating elements of the osteopathic exam into your pulmonary and cardiac exams, for instance, and learn a lot of techniques that can be used for pulmonary and cardiac patients. You won't cure CHF with OMM, but you can make the patient's life easier. There are things you can do in the hospital to reduce the chances of a post-op ileus, so even a surgeon can use these techniques if s/he so chooses.

Like what was mentioned earlier, though, one of the best benefits is the use of your "hand scanner." One of my classmates passed out first year during anatomy and she was taken to the hospital. The two MD's in the ER spent hours coming up with the Dx. Our resident OMM guru said it was a ruptured ovarian cyst moments after he touched her. He was right.

 

[McDoctor]

THIS IS NOT AN MD VS. DO THREAD! I AM NOT TRYING TO COMPARE THE TWO DEGREES IN A "WHICH ONE IS BETTER?" WAY!

Every osteopathic school we are applying to seems to want to evaluate our understanding of osteopathic medicine. There will be a question on almost every secondary application like "Why do you think you would be a good osteopathic physician?" or something along those lines.

So the question is... how does an osteopathic physician differ from an allopathic physician?

In the trauma center where I volunteer, I asked one of the DO's about this. He told me that, traditionally, about 50% of DO's are family practice docs, and some of them do a lot of the "chiropractic" manipulation stuff. However, most DO's who don't do family practice in a small town will do very little OMM, and after that, there is no difference. And from what I have observed in the ER, the DO's and MD's do the exact same thing. Often, there will be a DO resident taking instructions from an MD attending, or vice-versa.

In fact, not all the docs there list MD or DO after their name. Their tag or their scrubs might just say "Dr. xxxxxx", and you can't even tell who is an MD and who is a DO.

Now here is my thought...

I like OMM, but I don't want it to be a cornerstone of my career. Otherwise, I would just go to DC school. But as an athlete, coach, strength and conditioning specialist, and personal trainer, I can tell you for a fact that there are benefits to things like active release, myofascial release, and other similar techniques.

Here in Austin, there is a place called "Advanced Rehabilitation", and they are basically a bunch of chiropractors who work on athletes. At most of the races I do, they usually have a tent set up with tables, and they'll give you a quick once-over after you finish. It is a freaking life saver. I do it almost every time. My IT band gets stuck to my hamstrings or my vastus medialis, my psoases get short and tight after sitting in my aerobars for so long. And these dudes take care of me.

Would it be possible to specialize in something, say anesthesiology, surgery, whatever, and then start a clinic like Advanced Rehabilitation, hire chiropractors, and work on athletes? Maybe work races? I don't know that I'd do a lot of the manipulation myself, as I would be busy with my actual medical practice/working at the hospital/whatever, but I do believe in the theories of OMM for certain purposes. Would this be realistic? And would this be a good thing to put in the millions of essay questions that ask me about my thoughts on osteopathic medicine?

Also, is "there is no difference between DO and MD, unless you do a lot of OMM" a bad thing to put down, even though everybody in the profession knows it is reality?

And on another note... THE VINCE YOUNG SHOW IS ABOUT TO START!!!!

I don't think you'd be able to practice responsible sports medicine unless you did a residency in FP, IM, or PMR. You don't recieve that kind of training in Surgery or Anaesthesiology, and you won't have time for both.

For the purpose of the interviews and apps, I would make a distinction between allopathic and osteopathic and highlight the merits of the latter whether you buy into the difference or not. I would NOT refer to OMM as "chiropractic" in any way. You can talk about the emphasis in primary care and rural/underserved medicine and mention how you think this emphasis will make you a more well rounded physician, and provide a comprehensive grasp of patient care regardless of what you end up going into.

 

[JimT30]

I also mean that OMM isn't just manipulation technique that you use. It's part of how you approach a clinical situation and your patient. In this sense, you can apply OMM to a variety of clinical scenarios, not just to relieve direct MSK dysfunctions. You don't need OMM to be the "cornerstone" of your career to be practicing osteopathic medicine. OMM teaches you to relate a variety of dysfunctions through the neuro-MSK system. Furthermore, as a physician trained in osteopathic medicine, you would have the opportunity to learn how to use your "hand scanner" in conjunction with other types of advanced imaging studies and laboratory tests.

The DC degree teaches you these things too, the main difference is that they say they are the end all be all, if the DC would just accept their place in the health field there wouldn't be that much bashing of them! They have their place but they try to extend their training too far and alot of them make false claims.

 

[spicedmanna]

The DC degree teaches you these things too, the main difference is that they say they are the end all be all, if the DC would just accept their place in the health field there wouldn't be that much bashing of them! They have their place but they try to extend their training too far and alot of them make false claims.

Perhaps that is so. I wouldn't know, since I have no experience with chiropractic school, or the DC degree. However, as you perhaps alluded, osteopathic medicine, unlike chiropractic, teaches the application of the aforementioned principles and elements in the context of the full practice of medicine. The two aren't even comparable. I think we are on the same page, though.

 

[JimT30]

Perhaps that is so. I wouldn't know, since I have no experience with chiropractic school, or the DC degree. However, as you perhaps alluded, osteopathic medicine, unlike chiropractic, teaches the application of the aforementioned principles and elements in the context of the full practice of medicine. The two aren't even comparable. I think we are on the same page, though.

👍👍yes we are!!

 

[PT2MD]

During my TCOM interview in July I was asked the difference between MD and DO. After giving him my textbook/pc answer, he proceded to tell me his version. It was actually well thought out and not negative toward either credential.

TexTri - There are HUGE philosophical and practical differences between DC and DO manual therapies. I think it's important to understand that when considering the two professions. I don't want to hijack the thread but feel free to pm me.

Incidently as a former PT, I think it would be great for a group of PM&R DO's to open shop right next to Advanced Rehab. Keep in touch.

 

[PT2MD]

And on another note... THE VINCE YOUNG SHOW IS ABOUT TO START!!!!

The VY show was less than stellar today...I'll always love him as a Longhorn but he's a weak pro to this point.

Now THAT'S how you hijack a thread baby!

 

[StrengthDoc]

TexTri - There are HUGE philosophical and practical differences between DC and DO manual therapies. I think it's important to understand that when considering the two professions. I don't want to hijack the thread but feel free to pm me.

Since you have successfully hijacked the thread anyway... 😉

I think a fair statement is that there definitely can be a huge difference, but when you are talking about individual practitioners the bell curves do overlap. I have friends/associates that are both DOs and DCs. Strictly looking at the manual therapy aspect there is a fair amount in common when you are looking at medically bent DCs (there are some) rather than the cure all variety.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

VY is playing in the pros the same way he played early in his college career:

1. The fear of VY opens up the running game.

2. He wins games. Not always great stats, but he makes plays when it matters. When he becomes more consistent, he will make plays all the time, and become the best player in NFL history.

 

[LauraDO]

VY is playing in the pros the same way he played early in his college career:

1. The fear of VY opens up the running game.

2. He wins games. Not always great stats, but he makes plays when it matters. When he becomes more consistent, he will make plays all the time, and become the best player in NFL history.

VY looks like a poodle in tight pants compared to PEYTON MANNING

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Peyton Manning is the best QB I have ever seen, and I've been a fan of his since he was a freshman in college. Seriously, there is nothing not to like about him.

Having said that, I think that ten years from now, people will be looking at VY in the same way. He is a tireless worker, great leader, great attitude, great physical tools, etc... All the same things we love about Peyton. Always working to get better.

VY's learning curve as a passer will be a little longer than Peyton's, simply because he's always been able to run when he can't find a good throw to make. In the NFL, he's going to have to be more selective with his running, and make quicker decisions with his passing. And it is only a matter of time before he gets it all figured out. And that will make him a better runner too.

 

[LauraDO]

Peyton Manning is the best QB I have ever seen, and I've been a fan of his since he was a freshman in college. Seriously, there is nothing not to like about him.

Having said that, I think that ten years from now, people will be looking at VY in the same way. He is a tireless worker, great leader, great attitude, great physical tools, etc... All the same things we love about Peyton. Always working to get better.

VY's learning curve as a passer will be a little longer than Peyton's, simply because he's always been able to run when he can't find a good throw to make. In the NFL, he's going to have to be more selective with his running, and make quicker decisions with his passing. And it is only a matter of time before he gets it all figured out. And that will make him a better runner too.

ok, well I can't argue with all of that, in all actuality I think VY has more physical potential then Peyton, but Peyton is just a genius when it comes to strategy, he has these natural instincts that are unbeatable and he combines that with an intellecutal game that unmatched. VY has the physical and much of the instinctual, he just needs to develop the strategy side a bit more and he could be a fantastic player

To bring this all back to the orginal question, one of my dreams is to travel around for a year with a NFL team and be there team doc and take them to the superbowl with pm&r care😀

gooooo colts

 

[TexasTriathlete]

While not the same thing exactly, I was an intern for the strength and conditioning staff at UT for men's basketball the year we went to the final four with TJ Ford (and went toe to toe with Carmelo Anthony and Syracuse before they finally put us away at the end), and that was a hell of an experience. Everyone was always in a good mood, since we were always winning. Got to see a little bit of rehab stuff for some minor injuries. Overall, a really fun experience.

 

[SugarBuster]

I really like the (pre-hijack) discussion started here -- unfortunately I can't participate in the digression because I know nothing about sports. I too have questions about MD/DO and it's hard to find threads that haven't degenerated into hostile exchanges. The more I learn about osteopathic medicine, the more it interests me. For example, I like the idea of being able to diagnose and treat through hands-on methods. Thanks for starting/participating in this thread.