The performance of non-science majors in medical school

[bigred001]

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Hello all,

I am a freshman history major at Cornell and will enter (hopefully) med school with only the prereqs and biochemistry on the science front. Law2Doc has said that any more science in undergrad is unnecessary, but I have heard a veritable chorus of people on this board recommending immuno/molecular biology/microbiology/physiology/genetics/histology/anatomy (my school doesn't even offer this) and many more for both the MCAT and med school preparation. So, should I be worried if I can't fit in any additional sciences?

I put the warning sign thingy in the thread title because this is something I worry about a lot (type A, anyone?).

 

[cdql]

I was a non-science major in college and I've had no difficulty at all making the transition in med school.

I did feel slightly behind at the beginning of courses like anatomy and physiology but quickly caught up just by studying a bit harder than most at the beginning. I feel it all evens out in the end as long as you continue to study hard!

 

[skypilot]

Everyone has weaknesses and talents. You should see the art majors learning anatomy by drawing pictures. The language majors fly through reading the syllabus. The engineers intuitively understand the physiology. And everyone will have weaknesses. The material is easy to understand. Tough to memorize all of it though.

 

[twintiger32]

Hello all,

I am a freshman history major at Cornell and will enter (hopefully) med school with only the prereqs and biochemistry on the science front. Law2Doc has said that any more science in undergrad is unnecessary, but I have heard a veritable chorus of people on this board recommending immuno/molecular biology/microbiology/physiology/genetics/histology/anatomy (my school doesn't even offer this) and many more for both the MCAT and med school preparation. So, should I be worried if I can't fit in any additional sciences?

I put the warning sign thingy in the thread title because this is something I worry about a lot (type A, anyone?).

nah you don't need those. you'll do fine!

i was a bio major, but took the mcat after sophomore year before taking any upper divs...and after taking those upper divs, don't think i would have increased my score significantly (if at all).

there are lots of non-science majors in med school...adcoms like them because they bring diversity to the school, and have an academic life outside of science. =]

good luck!

 

[philla0105]

I was also a history major at CU...I wouldn't worry at all! I would really recommend taking classes in undergrad that you'll never be able to take again once you go to med school. The only additional science courses I took were behavior and neuro (221,222) because I heard they were so great (which they were). By the time I graduated I had taken everything from music to rock climbing, which I think ended up helping me in interviews. My only regret is I never took wines 🙂

Enjoy the time you have on the hill. I promise, even just the intro science courses there will make you very prepared for the next four years...

 

[Pembleton]

I was an English major. School isn't difficult but memorizing stuff (such as in biochem) can be incredibly boring.

 

[sga814]

hm, to counteract this chorus of "no science needed"... I shall say this... if you do take any of the aforementioned classes... med school will be easier for you than if you were a non-science major w/ only pre-req's.... and since you go to cornell I assume you can take classes such as biochem, physio, molecular bio, immunology, microbiology..... if you do force yourself to take those during undergrad.... you WILL thank yourself in med school... of course you can also go with what the other posters said.. and you'd just end up studying harder in med school.... YOUR CHOICE!!!

 

[gschl1234]

Hello all,

I am a freshman history major at Cornell and will enter (hopefully) med school with only the prereqs and biochemistry on the science front. Law2Doc has said that any more science in undergrad is unnecessary, but I have heard a veritable chorus of people on this board recommending immuno/molecular biology/microbiology/physiology/genetics/histology/anatomy (my school doesn't even offer this) and many more for both the MCAT and med school preparation. So, should I be worried if I can't fit in any additional sciences?

I put the warning sign thingy in the thread title because this is something I worry about a lot (type A, anyone?).

Maybe everyone here's a genius (or extremely patient) but the most difficult thing for me as a first year was lack of vocabulary. I'd literally sit there and look up every other word. It was very frustrating. By the time I got to the end of a paragraph (a lot of our class notes were written in prose form), I'd have forgotten what the paragraph was about. On top of just getting through your notes for basic understanding, you have to memorize them. Part of my problem was that I had never experienced reading documents where most of the words were unfamiliar so the whole experience was anxiety-provoking.

For example, a lot of anatomy is descriptive with use of landmarks to describe where a structure is. If you don't know any of the landmarks...it can be confusing. Histology was challenging for me because I didn't have a background in cell biology or physiology. It's very difficult and illogical to learn histology if you don't know how anything works. They stort of divorced the function from structure although this may be different from school to school. Having the background information would be helpful for better understanding.

I was a chemistry major who only took minimum biology. First semester was the most difficult but it got much better. You probably wouldn't have problems in biochemistry or physiolgoy if you took your basic chemistry classes. Looking back, it would have been a good idea to take embryology (because they didn't do a great job teaching it at my school), histology, cell biology, and biostatistics (again, minimally covered in my school).

I suppose if you're someone who doesn't get phased by reading a document where there are more words you don't know than know, you probably don't need any extra prep. Just take the basics and you'll be OK.

 

[needinformation]

No need to worry. Because, whatever you do learn in an undergrad immunology class isn't enough anyway- the stuff that took a whole semester to teach in an undergrad class is taught in one hour (okay, I am exaggerating, maybe one month) of med school. Don't worry, it is not possible to take every class that is taught in med school as an undergrad. Besides, isn't it better to use the time you have as an undergrad to actually study things that can be interesting? Personally, I didn't find the first two years of med school all that interesting. It was simply brute memorization.

 

[Law2Doc]

I suppose if you're someone who doesn't get phased by reading a document where there are more words you don't know than know, you probably don't need any extra prep. Just take the basics and you'll be OK.

While I agree the vocab is hard for folks (like me) without the appropriate science major background, it is not a big enough of a hurdle that I would advise taking additional undergrad coursework. Just have a copy of Stedman's handy.

 

[Brainsucker]

Undergrad science helps...but not all that much. The knowledge runs out pretty quickly. I was a biochem major, so I basically slept through the first 6 weeks of "from molecules to cells" or whatever they called it, but after that, I was in unfamiliar territory. I regret that I didn't major in p.chem. or physics. Anatomy and histology aren't covered in lots of undergrad bio majors, so you'll be on a pretty even footing.

 

[xanthines]

As a history major I am compelled to chime in.... 🙂

Majoring in history (and history only!) won't hurt you at all. I'm doing about average on my exams, which means I'm doing just as well as the science majors. Apparently you either forget everything from undergrad or it doesn't help out for very long. Sure, if your undergrad offered anatomy, histology, biochemistry, cell biology, pharmacology, epidemiology, urology, cardiology, pulmonology, gatroenterology, dermatology, psychiatry, and orthopedic pediatric neurosurgery it might help. My friend has a PhD in biochemistry and still had to study pretty hard for med school biochemistry! And that was basically as far as his PhD took him!

If you're interested in science, then take science classes. If not, take what you need to get into medical school. You don't need to love science to be a good doctor, you just need to know a lot of it. Also, a good bedside manner never hurt.

-X

 

[gschl1234]

While I agree the vocab is hard for folks (like me) without the appropriate science major background, it is not a big enough of a hurdle that I would advise taking additional undergrad coursework. Just have a copy of Stedman's handy.

Agreed. It really depends on the student in question. Thinking back, I had such a difficult time for 3 reasons. The obvious one is the vocab issue. Another problem was that I had no experience with the type of studying necessary for medical school. I was used to "getting it" in 1 or 2 read-throughs and in doing problems. That's what I'd done my whole life so I didn't know of any other way to study. That approach is useless if you're basically reading a "foreign" language. Finally, medical school was truly my first academic hurdle. By that I mean, it was the first time when I didn't feel in control of my own destiny. Failure was a real possibility. Thank God I passed.

The silver lining is that after the first semester things have gotten progressively easier. Also, getting through first semester taught me to be a lot more flexible about my study-habits. I feel like I'll be able to adapt to new situations a little better than I woudl have if everything had gone smoothly.

Still, if I had to do over again, I'd have taken a few more bio classes. It's much less painful to accumulate the background info slowly.

I'd imagine with the experience of law school, you might have been more accustomed to "medical school-style studying" or perhaps you faced academic hurdles in the past and learned to overcome.

 

[MD Rapper]

x

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I came from a liberal arts non-science background, and I think I am fitting right in. My secret is applying my strengths to the coursework in a unique way.

For instance, in physiology, in lieu of taking the renal multiple-choice test (which is my right, for as we all know, Scantron tests are simply tools of the oppressors), I submitted a paper examining class and racial barriers among patients seeking dialysis. Surprisingly enough, I concluded that everything was the federal government's fault. And for Gross Anatomy, I turned in a 10-page essay deconstructing the patriarchal paradigms in anatomical terminology and how they represent typical white European fear of women with its ultimate roots in Aristotalean misogyny. And for Biochemistry, I created a multimedia presentation comparing and contrasting G-protein alpha subunits with post-impressionist art of the 20s. Such artwork experienced a brief burst of activity before settling back into predefined ruts, much like a GTP-bound alpha subunit works only for a limited time before the GTP is inevitably hydrolyzed. One of my more brilliant critical insights, I do believe!

I just got an email from the Dean. He wants me to come to his office to "discuss which careers I may be better suited for." He must mean, whether I should look at a Mayo residency vs. one at UC. Awesome!

 

[heyjack70]

hm, to counteract this chorus of "no science needed"... I shall say this... if you do take any of the aforementioned classes... med school will be easier for you than if you were a non-science major w/ only pre-req's.... and since you go to cornell I assume you can take classes such as biochem, physio, molecular bio, immunology, microbiology..... if you do force yourself to take those during undergrad.... you WILL thank yourself in med school... of course you can also go with what the other posters said.. and you'd just end up studying harder in med school.... YOUR CHOICE!!!

I agree. A science major will have it easier simply because he/she has had some exposure to the vocab and concepts presented in med school. If it's your first day in Immuno and the teacher says, "This is a neutrophil, also called a Polymorphonuclear cell, or PMN. It's not an eosinophil and it's not a macrophage." This is a basic building block piece of information. Many science majors will have already learned this, so the concept that the teacher is going to be explaining on the next slide will have all their attention, as opposed to someone who may not have this knowledge.

It is, of course, not not-doable, for non-science grads, I think it is just more of a grind for them. Things that I learned in undergrad that I take for granted as general knowledge are not. It's just more information to learn. One more thing to memorize.

 

[Law2Doc]

It is, of course, not not-doable, for non-science grads, I think it is just more of a grind for them. Things that I learned in undergrad that I take for granted as general knowledge are not. It's just more information to learn. One more thing to memorize.

I think it's not as big a hurdle as a lot of sci majors like to think. This is totally my own perspective, but from what I've seen, in each course, I've noticed that about a third of sci majors seem to have forgotten a lot of what they learned, about a third don't seem to have learned it all that well the first time, and for those that had a solid grasp, it often seems to account for an advantage only in the first couple of weeks of each class, after which point everyone is on equal footing again. So yes, there is some disadvantage for non-sci majors, but I wouldn't run off and take a ton of courses to try and remedy that, just be ready to put in a few more hours at the start of each course toward background and vocab.

 

[tupac_don]

As a history major I am compelled to chime in.... 🙂

Majoring in history (and history only!) won't hurt you at all. I'm doing about average on my exams, which means I'm doing just as well as the science majors. Apparently you either forget everything from undergrad or it doesn't help out for very long. Sure, if your undergrad offered anatomy, histology, biochemistry, cell biology, pharmacology, epidemiology, urology, cardiology, pulmonology, gatroenterology, dermatology, psychiatry, and orthopedic pediatric neurosurgery it might help. My friend has a PhD in biochemistry and still had to study pretty hard for med school biochemistry! And that was basically as far as his PhD took him!

If you're interested in science, then take science classes. If not, take what you need to get into medical school. You don't need to love science to be a good doctor, you just need to know a lot of it. Also, a good bedside manner never hurt.

-X

Yea but if you are coming from PA, podiatry,dentisty or PT, trust me you will have a big heads up on the rest of your classmates, particularly if you worked as well.

 

[t33sg1rl]

OK, I want to take the other side-I believe that extra science classes can help significantly. I took basically every science class known to undergraduate-kind, and some graduate classes as well, and here's the breakdown on what material I revisited this year:

General Physiology: Incredibly useful, covered every organ system. Painted the 'big picture' of physiology so that in med school, it is easier for me to fill in details. Plus, this was an easy A.

Histology: Not a course available to everyone, I understand, but also EXTREMELY helpful-my class covered the whole body, and of course histology includes some cell biology and physiology. There isn't one word in my old Histology notes that hasn't come up again in med school.

Kind of useful: Cell and Molecular Biology. This class was the prereq for every single upper level bio class at my school, though, so I had no choice.
Biochemistry is also moderately useful, but not nearly as useful as I thought it would be.

Utterly worthless waste of time classes I took: microbiology, immunology, virology, genetics, molecular biology, advanced biochemistry, cancer, experimental methods.

Class I wish I had taken: statistics, mostly because the presentation of it at my school was beyond awful, and embryology, for the same reason.

So, to summarize, I think taking one semester of general physiology is your best investment; I trust that taking 3 credit hours away from rock climbing or whatever won't make you less interesting at interview time.

 

[rockit]

I don't get where the "science isn't important in college" crew comes from. Don't go crazy and sacrifice other interesting classes to take PChem, but everything you can learn in undergrad makes it a little bit easier in med school. For example, I didn't really study at all for physio because I had a lot in undergrad.

I would have taken more science.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't get where the "science isn't important in college" crew comes from.

It's all good -- you should take what interests you in college, and if that's science, super. But I think the point of the thread is that the OP was concerned about not having been a science major in college, and a lot of us nonsci majors are saying don't sweat it. You can learn all you need to know in med school. Certainly the fact that med schools require relatively very limited prerequisites and are accepting nonsci majors in greater numbers each year suggests that they aren't too concerned either.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

all you need is a good memory and basic reading comprehension.

extra undergrad science classes will help you save time reading in med school. just don't go and hurt your gpa with these extra classes.

 

[omgwtfbbq?]

ahhh, your post made my day. I'm currently producing a paper for my "ecofeminist theory class" the only theory class offered for me this semester to finish my bio degree, and its driving me crazy!!!!!!! And if you can believe it your joke about masculine undertones in anatomical words subjugating women.... actually came up.... in class.... I almost cried.
Boy oh boy, am I glad i double majored in biochem and english..... boy oh boy.... hehe. Can't they just give me the degree for my fiction writing? thats the fun part...... I can't wait to start medical school ....

 

[TypeA]

I put the warning sign thingy in the thread title because this is something I worry about a lot (type A, anyone?).

Uh, yeah.

 

[bigred001]

Thanks for all the reassuring comments.

Great idea on physiology. I think that class (along with biochemistry) will form my upper-level bio foundation. Should I take the lecture+lab or just lecture? They are seperate but related classes at my school.

Here is the lab description:
"Series of student-conducted in vitro and in vivo experiments designed to illustrate basic physiological processes in animals, with emphasis on relevance to humans, and to introduce students to physiological research techniques, instrumentation, experimental design, and interpretation of results. Techniques include anesthesia, surgical procedures, dissection under anesthesia, and real-time computer recording and analysis of data. Experiments with living tissues or live animals examine properties of membranes and epithelia, blood, nerves, skeletal and smooth muscle; cardiovascular, respiratory, renal, and reproductive function and their regulation by the nervous and endocrine systems. Experimental resources include frogs, rats, rabbits, and sheep, which are not always euthanized after the laboratory exercises. Written reports of laboratory activities are required. Grading is based on evaluation of these reports, laboratory performance and weekly discussions, weekly quizzes, and a midterm and final exam."

That sounds pretty good, actually. I think I'll do it. 👍

 

[vtucci]

I am not sure if Law2doc is in medical school yet so he may revise his comments at a later date. I am an attorney (non-science ivy league undergrad) and first year at USF.

I would absolutely recommend both being a non-science major but taking a number of courses above the required ones. Specifically, take biochem 1 and 2, histology and cell biology, anatomy and physiology (although I would wait until the year you are applying for this one so your grade will not be as important). Many courses will depend on how they are taught at your school. Take the histo lab-- other labs, not necessary.

I also agree that memory is key for the first two years and personality is key for the last two. I have been getting my butt kicked in the first year for things as I do not have a good memory.