The Pharma Rep Myth

[BrainDead]

Note: For some reason the last threads had some error
So the other day my friends came up to me and asked me what I thought about the use of sexuality in pharma sales.
I said, "you mean like in ads?"
They said, no there were a bunch of reports on shows like the daily show, fox news, and so on about how pharma companies go hire models and cheerleaders to sell drugs to doctors.
Does this really happen anywhere cause it sure as hell hasn't happened to mean.
Only MAYBE when I am in a crowd of like 20 doctors will I see some smokin' hot blonde pharma rep.
Many times the hot one doesn't really talk to you for more than a minute.
Its not the first time I have had to say "no thats a lie too"
Now I'm not saying I support this, but even the advertising is more hyped up than it is.
Correct me if I am wrong, but are there hordes of hotties trying to get into any hospitals somewhere cause I think its kinda bs.

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[turkeyjerky]

A lot of the pharm reps I've seen around seem to be better than average looking, if not quite model gorgeous. I do recall reading a story in either the wsj or the nytimes a few years ago about pharm companies recruiting former college cheerleaders.

 

[Twitch]

 

[BrainDead]

Quick question twitch, do you at all realize the irony of posting a "do not feed the trolls" picture in a thread that you consider that of a troll? I mean really people like you are the reason that pharma companies don't even have to put in the effort anymore.

 

[xanthines]

My personal thought is that the reps probably give a lot more thought into how they look than the rest of us. There was a thread awhile back complaining how med students (and doctors too?, I forget) didn't dress well. I'm at an institution now where people dress well because of an enforced dress code and I can't tell the difference between reps and normal employees.

Basically, the reps have the time and energy to make themselves look better/hot/sexy/whatever whereas medical professionals are either too tired, too apathetic, or too incompetent.

Just my opinion.

-X

 

[smq123]

They sure as heck aren't hiring MALE models as pharm reps. At least based on what I've seen.

I've seen one or two pharm reps that were very attractive females, but they were the exceptions. Those really attractive ones were also generally fresh out of college, no family, no kids, and no other responsibilities besides their 8-5 job.

 

[Dirt]

???

I would say that 70-80% of the reps I have come across are relatively young and at least mildly attractive women.

They are not all models, but there is no doubt that some degree of sexual marketing is involved which is not the least bit shocking considering sex is probably the #1 marketing tool in all of advertising.

 

[DrWBD]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDewcBpWlU[/YOUTUBE]

You mean this isn't real??

 

[mednsports]

A lot of the pharm reps I've seen around seem to be better than average looking, if not quite model gorgeous. I do recall reading a story in either the wsj or the nytimes a few years ago about pharm companies recruiting former college cheerleaders.

Haha...it's so funny you mentioned that. Two of my really good friends (girls) in college were cheerleaders and very gorgeous. When they graduated they couldn't find that "perfect job they were waiting on." But last summer they both called and said they were working as pharm reps haha. To answer the question, most reps I've met are extremely good looking and the guys are very nice and easy to get along with. I really enjoy them

 

[Law2Doc]

...
I would say that 70-80% of the reps I have come across are relatively young and at least mildly attractive women. ....

That's been my experience as well. There are a few reps here and there who don't have the looks but make up for it with shmoozing skills, but the majority are flirty blondes.

 

[Moonglow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/28/business/28cheer.html

 

[Slevin]

Sweet

 

[Pilot]

I have noticed in my private practice that in general the reps are generally pleasant and easy to get along with. I can think of only one "model" type rep, and we get lunch delivered by a rep every single day. We have a couple of rules for the reps which have worked out well.

1) No managers are allowed - it changes the entire interaction. We will allow the managers to remain in the car, but they are not allowed to interact with the doctors. We have had reps that were promoted to manager and thought this rule didn't apply to them, but they are quickly reminded of our policy.

2) No rep access to doctors unless scheduled for lunch. We do allow the front staff to bring the notebooks back for signatures, but the reps are not allowed to "sell" their product except at lunch (if they are the scheduled rep bringing lunch)

3) No reps can jump another reps lunch, even from the same company (I instituted this one myself, after seeing the same rep every 2 weeks for 2 months - she keep looking in the scheduling book for lunches from other reps from her company and would just show up)

4) No props, particularly stuffed animals

5) No handouts or promotional material. We prefer to discuss medications/indications in a conversation, and if we have questions then the promotional materials can come out. Reps should be prepared to back up their statements - if you state something that is BS, we will call you out on it and make you back it up.

5) No home health companies (notorious for not showing up). We are booked out for 3 months at a time, and the rep turnover in home health is so fast that the rep scheduling will likely not be employed by the time their lunch rolls around

6) Must bring enough food for the entire office (20 people)

I have only banned one rep, and he got a year long ban for bringing in his manager despite being warned not to by the front staff. Was very agressive, as was his boss, and I ended up leaving the lunch. He came into my office a few minutes later and slapped a 10 year old study on my desk, and said "maybe you should read this." I was so mad I was shaking.

The funny thing was he was a rep for Immunocap, a test I was using with some regularity. Since that time, I have not ordered the test once, and told my office manager to take the test off the superbill. I now send people to the allergist for testing.

 

[DrJD]

Just wanted to throw in that there is a TON of really crappy things that go on with the pharm reps. During my masters I went to a talk given by an ex pharm sales rep talking about what it was like. In short:

- They do hire for looks
- They generally send a team of pharm reps the first time they visit an office. Male and female. They then see which the Doc responds to... From then on, that gender will be the rep for that office.
- They can track your prescriptions on a daily basis and decide if what they are doing is working or not.
- The list goes on and on...

Crazy stuff!

 

[Cruzinman]

Pilot, why do you insist on lunch for 20 to get face time with a drug rep. I'm sure you realize that there is no "free lunch" and this form of gated access serves only to further drive up the cost of medicines. Howabout lunch for one (you) and the rep. That way you might even get a nicer meal out of it.

 

[michaelrack]

Pilot, why do you insist on lunch for 20 to get face time with a drug rep. I'm sure you realize that there is no "free lunch" and this form of gated access serves only to further drive up the cost of medicines. Howabout lunch for one (you) and the rep. That way you might even get a nicer meal out of it.

The office staff expects their free lunches.

 

[Pilot]

The office staff expects their free lunches.

Bingo.

Also, as a former pharmacist, I can parse the studies and make my own decisions as to whether a medication is worthwhile in my practice. I still have reps coming in trying to get me to prescribe some meds regularly despite the fact I never actually written a prescription for it - they understand that if they are the 10th drug in a class, I will not change my prescribing habits unless there is something unique and worthwhile about the drug.

I don't feel bad about the higher costs of meds from reps supporting my entire practice. As soon as the government allows me to write off bad debt (like other professions such as lawyers can), then maybe I will consider not taking advantage of this sales promotion on the part of drug companies for me to "consider" the use of their medication. If I was allowed to deduct patient/insurance debt writeoffs on my taxes, I wouldn't show a profit and would certainly pay a lot less in taxes, and could consider paying for lunch for my staff daily.

One quick example - in the first 9 months of this year, my partners and I billed 300K more than the same time in 2008. However, our net difference to our bottom line was 12K. Granted, we did hire 1 additional staff member in that year, but at a normal regional salary for a medical assistant. The biggest offenders in write offs, you ask.. Medicare, Tricare, United and Secure Horizons (the last 2 being Medicare offerings in my area of the country). Working harder for less, but still enjoting my career choice

 

[pharmacy85]

Bingo.

Also, as a former pharmacist, I can parse the studies and make my own decisions as to whether a medication is worthwhile in my practice. I still have reps coming in trying to get me to prescribe some meds regularly despite the fact I never actually written a prescription for it - they understand that if they are the 10th drug in a class, I will not change my prescribing habits unless there is something unique and worthwhile about the drug.

I don't feel bad about the higher costs of meds from reps supporting my entire practice. As soon as the government allows me to write off bad debt (like other professions such as lawyers can), then maybe I will consider not taking advantage of this sales promotion on the part of drug companies for me to "consider" the use of their medication. If I was allowed to deduct patient/insurance debt writeoffs on my taxes, I wouldn't show a profit and would certainly pay a lot less in taxes, and could consider paying for lunch for my staff daily.

One quick example - in the first 9 months of this year, my partners and I billed 300K more than the same time in 2008. However, our net difference to our bottom line was 12K. Granted, we did hire 1 additional staff member in that year, but at a normal regional salary for a medical assistant. The biggest offenders in write offs, you ask.. Medicare, Tricare, United and Secure Horizons (the last 2 being Medicare offerings in my area of the country). Working harder for less, but still enjoting my career choice

I bet you kick ass with the pharm reps huh? 👍

 

[Pilot]

I actually do get along with them pretty well (with the exception of the rep referenced above). I really enjoy the ones that were pharmacists before becoming reps. We have some really engaging conversations about pharmacokinetics, AUC, and side effects. If the reps don't mesh with and my partners, they just don't schedule themselves in the future. We aren't twisting anyone's arm here.

 

[Cruzinman]

During the 1970's my wife worked for Eli Lilly, where all of the reps were required to be RPh's. Pilot, you probably would have enjoyed working with them. They were all highly trained and could discuss kinetics, interactions, etc, and actually have a collegial discussion. Despite higher salaries, they were considered value-adding, since their expertise inspired confidence in doctors to prescribe their products. In fact, my dad, who is a physician, used to tell me that he would prescibe Lilly or Merck products for that reason.

Somewhere along the line a herd mentality developed with Big Pharma. Consulting companies such as ZS Associates popularized the idea of "reach and frequency", the idea being to hit the doc with multiple reps multiple times with the same message. It was the big Pharma equivalent of throwing s**t on the wall and seeing what stuck. Thus, you literally had reps tripping over each other in doctors offices. The scale-up in demand fror reps way outstripped the availability of pharmacists, and so Pharma had to draw from other areas, etc, i.e., ex used car salesman, Mary Kay saleswomen, encyclopedia salesman, anyone that could memorize a script and spit it out verbatim. Believe it or not, even with data showing only 1/5 reps actually currently get to see the doc, the herd mentality still persists.

The herd mentality persists up to the CEO level. Listen to any healthcare analyst presentation by Pharma execs and you will see the same thing: powerpoint slide with bloated numbers extolling the deep piplelines of drug candidates. They cook up numbers known as NPV (net present value) for the analysts, which is a guesstimate of potential future sales of these drugs). The Pharma presenters don't seem to get the point that the analyysts have long since cast a wary eye on these projections. Interestingly, the projected numbers that seem quite accurate are the numbers and costs of downsizing that is currently happening and projected for 2010 with the patent cliff looming. Big Pharma CEO's know that if they can't grow the top line they had better at least maintain the bottom line fso as to mollify the analysts.

Pilot is fortunate in having found at least one pharmacist rep that still exists.

 

[Pilot]

I actually have 2 pharmacist reps that call on me still. One went to pharmacy school with me, and I take care of he and his family also. the other has been around a long time, and is ready to retire to his pecan farm full time. That is generally what we talk about when he comes in.