The Racism at Noorda is Unbearable

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Countryfriedsteak

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I’m writing this to warn potential POC medical students who may be interested in attending Noorda. Please, if you have an acceptance elsewhere, then take it. I can’t go into too many details as I don’t wanna give away my identity, but I’ve seen students of color struggle with the intolerable culture of Noorda. You won’t be supported by faculty should you have an issue occur. This same faculty are the ones who have pet names for certain POC groups.

Students, especially black students, have been called racial slurs both on campus and in the community. A faculty member once said that people of Utah aren’t use to change so it makes sense as to why they aren’t welcoming. If that was the case, then why accept us?

I can’t speak for all POC students as everyone has had different experiences. If this is the only school you have been accepted to, then come. But come knowing what you are getting yourself into. Keep your head down, and trust no one. Noorda is only concerned with trying to fill their class, which remains a struggle. They accept low 480-490 MCAT scorers, who based on Noorda in-house data, will struggle academically. These students then find themselves with no academic support, forced to repeat years. Heck there’s even a student who has repeated twice. And for some odd reason Noorda hasn’t told the student how this effects their chances to match.

I never want to stand between a person and their goals. Take this post as an instruction on how to navigate, should you choose Noorda. We didn’t get a heads up before we came here, but you will.

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wow, this is sad to hear and surprising. i interviewed there, and while i knew they were a for-profit school, they seemed to be kind and caring and while i didn't personally like their teaching style and chose not to attend, it seemed like they had a good plan with it and a lot of students loved it. i'm not surprised to hear their main priority is to fill their class, i imagine many schools would be, but especially since they're for-profit. i hope it improves for you.
 
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I’m sorry to hear that situation occur with that person. I’m not a POC nor do I pretend to be but I have many friends at school who are of various ethnic backgrounds who have never shared with me any such experience. I know there are various interest groups on campus who all have support from the faculty. Again I’m sorry to whoever experienced that
 
I’m writing this to warn potential POC medical students who may be interested in attending Noorda. Please, if you have an acceptance elsewhere, then take it. I can’t go into too many details as I don’t wanna give away my identity, but I’ve seen students of color struggle with the intolerable culture of Noorda. You won’t be supported by faculty should you have an issue occur. This same faculty are the ones who have pet names for certain POC groups.

Students, especially black students, have been called racial slurs both on campus and in the community. A faculty member once said that people of Utah aren’t use to change so it makes sense as to why they aren’t welcoming. If that was the case, then why accept us?

I can’t speak for all POC students as everyone has had different experiences. If this is the only school you have been accepted to, then come. But come knowing what you are getting yourself into. Keep your head down, and trust no one. Noorda is only concerned with trying to fill their class, which remains a struggle. They accept low 480-490 MCAT scorers, who based on Noorda in-house data, will struggle academically. These students then find themselves with no academic support, forced to repeat years. Heck there’s even a student who has repeated twice. And for some odd reason Noorda hasn’t told the student how this effects their chances to match.

I never want to stand between a person and their goals. Take this post as an instruction on how to navigate, should you choose Noorda. We didn’t get a heads up before we came here, but you will.
is this Fr? im a current POC student and while Im certainly not dismissing your experiences but I have not gotten that vibe. but then again i keep to myself and all I do is study . Im so sorry to hear that tho </3
 
Can other Noorda students back this up?
🙁
I can absolutely speak to this! I know exactly who wrote this post. This is the student who got kicked out of Noorda COM this past January for CHEATING on exams. He was a person of color (Indian) and he brought his cell phone to the exams and he would ask to use the bathroom and he would look up the right answers in the bathroom then would go back to the exam and submit his answers. He was caught once… then he was caught a second time and the second time was the last straw before he was kicked out of Noorda COM. Now he’s on SDN to tell everyone how the school is awful and racist but the truth is: he got caught cheating and it nipped him in the butt. How do I know? I know his roommate.

I’m at Noorda and I will be straight up about what is truth and what’s false. Even though this is my medical school, I will admit all the bad things about the school that I wish I could change. In fact, the past two class president elections I avoided running but I think next year I’m actually going to do it because there’s so much that needs to change at Noorda. Anyways, what’s true: Yes I know a couple of students in each year that have had to repeat a year at Noorda. But every medical school I’ve talked to has that. It’s also true that the inaugural class had a boards pass rate of 78%. It is also true that Noorda only reports the pass rate of those who have taken the boards exams. Like the second class that had a 95% pass rate… well that was only the first group of 40 or so students who were prepared enough to sit for the boards. Noorda will not allow students to sit for the boards unless they’re more prepared now because how how bad the inaugural class did. It’s also true that there’s not a whole of of academic support. There’s learning specialist here and there’s tutors. All faculty have online office hours and some of the faculty have even met with me in person for office hours. I feel like this kid of academic support is normal though. As medical students, I think it’s up to us to pass boards by ourselves and no one is gonna save us. It is also true that there are many students who scored 490s on their MCAT. I have met several just in my class but I have never met anyone who scored in the 480s (maybe they won’t admit it. I know I wouldn’t it). But one think I know is absolutely NOT TRUE is the racism towards people of color. I have never once heard a racial slur here at Noorda. There’s plenty of students of color here and same with our staff. Our first student to win Student Doctor of the Year is a black man and he won that award by a landslide. The next two winners of the student Doctor of the year award were also students of color and underrepresented. Our faculty are almost all people of color. The Director of our DEI department is a black woman. The list goes on. Also when I moved to Utah I noticed that the Utah people are the nicest and most accepting people. So yeah it’s definitely not racist at Noorda and all of our faculty are democrats. It’s actually a very safe place here. Safe from crime and safe to be yourself here. Very large LGBTQ population amongst our student body. However I would not recommend this school to any gunners or anyone who wants to go into a competitive field. The school is too new and has no reputation. Also no research really. You are kind of on your own for research. But yeah the OP was kicked out of Noorda COM and is now telling lies about Noorda for sure. I know him well and I know exactly who is.
 
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I can absolutely speak to this! I know exactly who wrote this post. This is the student who got kicked out of Noorda COM this past January for CHEATING on exams. He was a person of color (Indian) and he brought his cell phone to the exams and he would ask to use the bathroom and he would look up the right answers in the bathroom then would go back to the exam and submit his answers. He was caught once… then he was caught a second time and the second time was the last straw before he was kicked out of Noorda COM. Now he’s on SDN to tell everyone how the school is awful and racist but the truth is: he got caught cheating and it nipped him in the butt. How do I know? I was his roommate.

I’m at Noorda and I will be straight up about what is truth and what’s false. Even though this is my medical school, I will admit all the bad things about the school that I wish I could change. In fact, the past two class president elections I avoided running but I think next year I’m actually going to do it because there’s so much that needs to change at Noorda. Anyways, what’s true: Yes I know a couple of students in each year that have had to repeat a year at Noorda. But every medical school I’ve talked to has that. It’s also true that the inaugural class had a boards pass rate of 78%. It is also true that Noorda only reports the pass rate of those who have taken the boards exams. Like the second class that had a 95% pass rate… well that was only the first group of 40 or so students who were prepared enough to sit for the boards. Noorda will not allow students to sit for the boards unless they’re more prepared now because how how bad the inaugural class did. It’s also true that there’s not a whole of of academic support. There’s learning specialist here and there’s tutors. All faculty have online office hours and some of the faculty have even met with me in person for office hours. I feel like this kid of academic support is normal though. As medical students, I think it’s up to us to pass boards by ourselves and no one is gonna save us. It is also true that there are many students who scored 490s on their MCAT. I have met several just in my class but I have never met anyone who scored in the 480s (maybe they won’t admit it. I know I wouldn’t it). But one think I know is absolutely NOT TRUE is the racism towards people of color. I have never once heard a racial slur here at Noorda. There’s plenty of students of color here and same with our staff. Our first student to win Student Doctor of the Year is a black man and he won that award by a landslide. The next two winners of the student Doctor of the year award were also students of color and underrepresented. Our faculty are almost all people of color. The Director of our DEI department is a black woman. The list goes on. Also when I moved to Utah I noticed that the Utah people are the nicest and most accepting people. So yeah it’s definitely not racist at Noorda and all of our faculty are democrats. It’s actually a very safe place here. Safe from crime and safe to be yourself here. Very large LGBTQ population amongst our student body. However I would not recommend this school to any gunners or anyone who wants to go into a competitive field. The school is too new and has no reputation. Also no research really. You are kind of on your own for research. But yeah the OP was kicked out of Noorda COM and is not telling lies about Noorda for sure. I know him well and I know exactly who is.
Tell Tea Time GIF by Dreezy
 
I can absolutely speak to this! I know exactly who wrote this post. This is the student who got kicked out of Noorda COM this past January for CHEATING on exams. He was a person of color (Indian) and he brought his cell phone to the exams and he would ask to use the bathroom and he would look up the right answers in the bathroom then would go back to the exam and submit his answers. He was caught once… then he was caught a second time and the second time was the last straw before he was kicked out of Noorda COM. Now he’s on SDN to tell everyone how the school is awful and racist but the truth is: he got caught cheating and it nipped him in the butt. How do I know? I was his roommate.

I’m at Noorda and I will be straight up about what is truth and what’s false. Even though this is my medical school, I will admit all the bad things about the school that I wish I could change. In fact, the past two class president elections I avoided running but I think next year I’m actually going to do it because there’s so much that needs to change at Noorda. Anyways, what’s true: Yes I know a couple of students in each year that have had to repeat a year at Noorda. But every medical school I’ve talked to has that. It’s also true that the inaugural class had a boards pass rate of 78%. It is also true that Noorda only reports the pass rate of those who have taken the boards exams. Like the second class that had a 95% pass rate… well that was only the first group of 40 or so students who were prepared enough to sit for the boards. Noorda will not allow students to sit for the boards unless they’re more prepared now because how how bad the inaugural class did. It’s also true that there’s not a whole of of academic support. There’s learning specialist here and there’s tutors. All faculty have online office hours and some of the faculty have even met with me in person for office hours. I feel like this kid of academic support is normal though. As medical students, I think it’s up to us to pass boards by ourselves and no one is gonna save us. It is also true that there are many students who scored 490s on their MCAT. I have met several just in my class but I have never met anyone who scored in the 480s (maybe they won’t admit it. I know I wouldn’t it). But one think I know is absolutely NOT TRUE is the racism towards people of color. I have never once heard a racial slur here at Noorda. There’s plenty of students of color here and same with our staff. Our first student to win Student Doctor of the Year is a black man and he won that award by a landslide. The next two winners of the student Doctor of the year award were also students of color and underrepresented. Our faculty are almost all people of color. The Director of our DEI department is a black woman. The list goes on. Also when I moved to Utah I noticed that the Utah people are the nicest and most accepting people. So yeah it’s definitely not racist at Noorda and all of our faculty are democrats. It’s actually a very safe place here. Safe from crime and safe to be yourself here. Very large LGBTQ population amongst our student body. However I would not recommend this school to any gunners or anyone who wants to go into a competitive field. The school is too new and has no reputation. Also no research really. You are kind of on your own for research. But yeah the OP was kicked out of Noorda COM and is not telling lies about Noorda for sure. I know him well and I know exactly who is.
Noorda is hella lenient for letting the cheating slide once. Most schools would have dismissed the first time.
 
I can absolutely speak to this! I know exactly who wrote this post. This is the student who got kicked out of Noorda COM this past January for CHEATING on exams. He was a person of color (Indian) and he brought his cell phone to the exams and he would ask to use the bathroom and he would look up the right answers in the bathroom then would go back to the exam and submit his answers. He was caught once… then he was caught a second time and the second time was the last straw before he was kicked out of Noorda COM. Now he’s on SDN to tell everyone how the school is awful and racist but the truth is: he got caught cheating and it nipped him in the butt. How do I know? I was his roommate.

I’m at Noorda and I will be straight up about what is truth and what’s false. Even though this is my medical school, I will admit all the bad things about the school that I wish I could change. In fact, the past two class president elections I avoided running but I think next year I’m actually going to do it because there’s so much that needs to change at Noorda. Anyways, what’s true: Yes I know a couple of students in each year that have had to repeat a year at Noorda. But every medical school I’ve talked to has that. It’s also true that the inaugural class had a boards pass rate of 78%. It is also true that Noorda only reports the pass rate of those who have taken the boards exams. Like the second class that had a 95% pass rate… well that was only the first group of 40 or so students who were prepared enough to sit for the boards. Noorda will not allow students to sit for the boards unless they’re more prepared now because how how bad the inaugural class did. It’s also true that there’s not a whole of of academic support. There’s learning specialist here and there’s tutors. All faculty have online office hours and some of the faculty have even met with me in person for office hours. I feel like this kid of academic support is normal though. As medical students, I think it’s up to us to pass boards by ourselves and no one is gonna save us. It is also true that there are many students who scored 490s on their MCAT. I have met several just in my class but I have never met anyone who scored in the 480s (maybe they won’t admit it. I know I wouldn’t it). But one think I know is absolutely NOT TRUE is the racism towards people of color. I have never once heard a racial slur here at Noorda. There’s plenty of students of color here and same with our staff. Our first student to win Student Doctor of the Year is a black man and he won that award by a landslide. The next two winners of the student Doctor of the year award were also students of color and underrepresented. Our faculty are almost all people of color. The Director of our DEI department is a black woman. The list goes on. Also when I moved to Utah I noticed that the Utah people are the nicest and most accepting people. So yeah it’s definitely not racist at Noorda and all of our faculty are democrats. It’s actually a very safe place here. Safe from crime and safe to be yourself here. Very large LGBTQ population amongst our student body. However I would not recommend this school to any gunners or anyone who wants to go into a competitive field. The school is too new and has no reputation. Also no research really. You are kind of on your own for research. But yeah the OP was kicked out of Noorda COM and is now telling lies about Noorda for sure. I know him well and I know exactly who is.
Oh this is juicy . The clarification is highly appreciated ! 👏🏽
 
@bloodyscalpel I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not that student. The racial issues at Noorda have gotten better, but they still exist. As to the racial slurs that were used, this was said by a student who has since repeated two years at Noorda. It is well known what he did. He continued to display unprofessional behavior and has targeted another black student, which resulted in him being escorted off campus by police. I know cause I saw him walking with the cops. When it comes to racism, it is a subjective experience. HOWEVER, when my friends are called the N-word by Utah residents or when I am constantly being stared while shopping, I know this is not the norm. I don't know the student who was removed, and his experience is irrelevant to my post. I simply wanted POC students to be prepared for the real Noorda experience. As for those POC students who have excelled, they all have given me advice on how to move through Noorda, which is why I chose to share said advice. Best of luck with your studies!
 
An n=1 for for a student using slurs doesn't make "a culture of racism" at a medical school. However, the fact that said student wasn't expelled carries more evidence.

As for the community, this is something that all med students need to go in eyes open, as the med school may be supportive, but the local communities may not. This is definitely more an issue for the DO schools in rural communities and in heavily white states.
 
Almost 90% of states are majority white, with 70% being more than 75% white by makeup, so it's not as easy as saying avoid heavily white states as they make up the majority. The states with the highest African American population are generally in the South (about 5-6 of top 10). I am not a POC so I cannot speak from experience, but I have heard mixed opinions on whether or not the South is generally more racist than other areas. However, 2/4 of the HBCU med schools are in the South/Mid South. Regardless, the student needs to weigh these factors in when applying to and ultimately choosing a school to attend. School list is IMPORTANT, do not apply to somewhere you wouldn't attend, whether it's due to location, weather, cost, racial issues, etc. All personal choices you must make.

I agree though that generally the rural communities will cause more issues in this sense, and number of rural schools generally favors DOs.
 
Church of LDS attendees just until 47 years ago were directly and indirectly taught about black inferiority and specifically, black spiritual inferiority. Take a look at what percentage of Utah residents are involved, attend, or at least identify as a congregant of LDS. We aren't too far removed from that era. POC applicants should be highly aware of the region they will be attending for school and especially what specific political or racial climates at a point in time could mean for those shared spaces.

The truth is this. If you are a POC applicant, especially Black or even Hispanic, you need to do your homework on the geography, political climate, and culture of the regions where you will be living for four or more years. These factors matter much more for you than they will for most non-POC applicants. If after doing that research you find that your only options are DO schools in highly rural and you feel real hesitation, I encourage a return to the lab. Restudy, and aim for a higher MCAT score. Not because those schools are inherently bad, but because you deserve options where you can thrive as well.

The states with the highest African American population are generally in the South (about 5-6 of top 10). I am not a POC so I cannot speak from experience, but I have heard mixed opinions on whether or not the South is generally more racist than other areas. However, 2/4 of the HBCU med schools are in the South/Mid South.

Could you clarify? Are you suggesting that Black students are or should be comfortable in the South simply because more Black people live there? Or that some Black students need to learn to navigate those environments regardless? Or something entirely different?
 
Could you clarify? Are you suggesting that Black students are or should be comfortable in the South simply because more Black people live there? Or that some Black students need to learn to navigate those environments regardless? Or something entirely different?
What was said was meant to point to this:
Regardless, the student needs to weigh these factors in when applying to and ultimately choosing a school to attend. School list is IMPORTANT, do not apply to somewhere you wouldn't attend, whether it's due to location, weather, cost, racial issues, etc. All personal choices you must make.

Black students should be comfortable where they want to be comfortable, just like anyone else. I was just providing a response to the above comment on which states have the most black individuals considering most states are heavy white. Regardless of that, a lot of times people are most comfortable within their own cultures, especially minorities, which is why we see certain cities, or suburbs within a larger city, full of a HEAVY majority of a minority race. That's not to say that because that exists elsewhere, every black person should be comfortable in the south or wherever else a large black population might be present. That's entirely up to people on an individual basis and whether or not that's the place where they feel they are most accepted is up to their own opinion and experiences. They are only required to learn to navigate the environment if they themselves choose a school there. That's another reason why school list is so important as everyone has the power to decide where they apply. If you hate state X, no one is forcing you to apply there. The stupidity begins when people (speaking generally here about applicants) apply somewhere they wouldn't go and it ends up being their only acceptance and then we get to painfully read through threads of people asking if they should turn down an A and reapply because they hate X school or X state.

Secondarily is that it just happens to be that half the HBCUs are in the south. Whether that's a good or bad thing is again, up to each individual. However I don't think the black population would argue that an HBCU existing is a bad thing. And half of them aren't in the south. They exist as likely one of the better chances for black individuals, especially those without crazy high stats considering most of the HBCUs have considerably lower averages, even lower than quite a few DOs. A great opportunity for an MD degree if you fit their mission.

Hope that answers the question. I am not black, but I am Hispanic. Not trying to compare head to head or anything, but you did mention Hispanic in your comment. For me, most would say I look Hispanic but I am mixed. I am from an area where there is a huge Hispanic population, but I did not necessarily grow up in a Hispanic culture. I went to a University with almost no Hispanics, but I fit in just fine. Hometown and University city were opposite ends of the spectrum politically as well. I learned how to deal with it. Because of that, for me personally, political climate had no bearing on my school decision. I also was low stats so I took what I could get and am happy with it. In that realm, it's so personal that the only advice to offer is: make the best decision for yourself. No one knows how you feel or are in that sense, at least on the internet, so that's something that must be decided individually.
 
Also want to comment on that fact that I am not endorsing nor defending Noorda in any way. I also have no affiliation to the Church of LDS or to Utah. I only interviewed there (will not be attending), and while I'm not black, there were black individuals in my groups and I did not see any differential treatment towards them. Which of course means nothing, it's interview day and that's literally more bare minimum than the bare minimum. I would hope that the school isn't like that but it wouldn't surprise me if there was leftover racism within that surrounding community like you mentioned, even if the Church has disallowed their prior teaching like 10-15 years ago. Racism also exists within individuals, and like said in another comment, a racist student doesn't mean a racist medical school.

For people that need to worry about these things, it's tough and unfortunate to have to eliminate potential choices that might fit your needs in other areas.
 
What was said was meant to point to this:


Black students should be comfortable where they want to be comfortable, just like anyone else. I was just providing a response to the above comment on which states have the most black individuals considering most states are heavy white. Regardless of that, a lot of times people are most comfortable within their own cultures, especially minorities, which is why we see certain cities, or suburbs within a larger city, full of a HEAVY majority of a minority race. That's not to say that because that exists elsewhere, every black person should be comfortable in the south or wherever else a large black population might be present. That's entirely up to people on an individual basis and whether or not that's the place where they feel they are most accepted is up to their own opinion and experiences. They are only required to learn to navigate the environment if they themselves choose a school there. That's another reason why school list is so important as everyone has the power to decide where they apply. If you hate state X, no one is forcing you to apply there. The stupidity begins when people (speaking generally here about applicants) apply somewhere they wouldn't go and it ends up being their only acceptance and then we get to painfully read through threads of people asking if they should turn down an A and reapply because they hate X school or X state.

Secondarily is that it just happens to be that half the HBCUs are in the south. Whether that's a good or bad thing is again, up to each individual. However I don't think the black population would argue that an HBCU existing is a bad thing. And half of them aren't in the south. They exist as likely one of the better chances for black individuals, especially those without crazy high stats considering most of the HBCUs have considerably lower averages, even lower than quite a few DOs. A great opportunity for an MD degree if you fit their mission.

Hope that answers the question. I am not black, but I am Hispanic. Not trying to compare head to head or anything, but you did mention Hispanic in your comment. For me, most would say I look Hispanic but I am mixed. I am from an area where there is a huge Hispanic population, but I did not necessarily grow up in a Hispanic culture. I went to a University with almost no Hispanics, but I fit in just fine. Hometown and University city were opposite ends of the spectrum politically as well. I learned how to deal with it. Because of that, for me personally, political climate had no bearing on my school decision. I also was low stats so I took what I could get and am happy with it. In that realm, it's so personal that the only advice to offer is: make the best decision for yourself. No one knows how you feel or are in that sense, at least on the internet, so that's something that must be decided individually.
I should start by saying that I'm a black american with an black Panamanian mother and black father from DC. I also agree with some of your thoughts.

Regarding HBCU's, however, I do not think anyone is arguing that HBCUs are a bad thing. Their existence is critical, and they have opened doors that were closed to Black students for generations. But one thing I do want to clarify, which you may know, but just for context, is why HBCU medical schools exist in the first place. They were not created as opportunities just because Black students had lower stats. They were created because white medical schools, especially in the South, refused to admit Black applicants. And most hospitals at the time would not even treat Black patients, many of whom had just fought for 'their side' in the Civil War. Some of these schools were completely built out of necessity. So their presence in the South does not suggest the South was welcoming. It reflects how unwelcome Black people were, and how Black communities had to build institutions for themselves for survival.

Also, when I mentioned Black or Hispanic applicants being mindful of where they apply, I was not talking about comfort in the same way someone might say they prefer ice cream or donuts. I was talking about well-being. There's an mental and even physical toll that can come with spending four or more years in places where the culture may be racially insensitive, and where the broader environment was not built for you in the slightest. Most of us can adapt anywhere. The issue is whether we should have to sacrifice parts of ourselves to survive in a place where we are not respected, not represented, or not safe - perceived or real.

I also want to push back on the idea that minorities tend to live in certain enclaves or cities because that is where they feel most comfortable. As a Hispanic, you probably know that black and brown communities were systemically pushed into segregated urban spaces through redlining, housing discrimination, zoning laws, and a lack of access to mortgages etc.. Not because of cultural preference. That is how those racial patterns formed and continue to exist today. And while some people have built beautiful communities within those limits, such as in ritzy Atlanta neighborhoods, for example, it's not historically accurate to simply imply preference.

Yes, everyone should apply only where they would be happy to attend. I completely agree with that as it is sense not to common among applicants.

For people that need to worry about these things, it's tough and unfortunate to have to eliminate potential choices that might fit your needs in other areas.
Again, for some of us, this is not about preference. For some of us, it is about whether we will be respected, supported, or safe for four years. Eliminating a school for those reasons is not 'tough and unfortunate', it is necessary. And like I said before, if you do your research and find that the only schools within reach are in regions where you may feel isolated or unsafe, then as I stated before, fight like hell to increase that MCAT and open up more doors. Because where you train or grow will shape who you are as a physician, and more importantly, as a person. For some of us, that environment may matter more than anything else. But I digress.
 
But one thing I do want to clarify, which you may know, but just for context, is why HBCU medical schools exist in the first place. They were not created as opportunities just because Black students had lower stats. They were created because white medical schools, especially in the South, refused to admit Black applicants.
This is not what I meant at all and I really hope it did not come off like that! All I meant was they are a great option for the black students with lower stats, it wasn't a blanket statement trying to dig into stats vs race.
So their presence in the South does not suggest the South was welcoming. It reflects how unwelcome Black people were, and how Black communities had to build institutions for themselves for survival.
I don't disagree. However you're talking in past tense as that was X amount of years ago. There MAY be some areas that have improved since the time period you're referencing, or maybe everywhere is still bad. I am not the decider of that. Up to each individual to decide what feels inclusive and acceptable to them.
The issue is whether we should have to sacrifice parts of ourselves to survive in a place where we are not respected, not represented, or not safe - perceived or real.
Right! I agree. On one side, and generally, it's just sad that it exists. Plain and simple. Should we have to? No. The other side (let's just use medicine), no one is forced to sacrifice themselves to go to medical school in a certain area. Also, medicine is one of those uber-competitive fields where sometimes the only way forward is by making your own way. As someone with minority ethnicity, I want to be respected as an individual, and the way I see that becoming possible is by putting myself in uncomfortable situations. It has to start somewhere, and the more minorities that are able to push the boundary on their own accord beyond what some stuck-in-the-past attending thinks is possible, the more respect they will be given. Eventually (I hope) it won't have to be that way. It doesn't mean this issue should exists or is okay. But that culture in medicine exists well beyond just race. For most of us that don't have a "direct in" we have to fight like hell just to get a spot.
I also want to push back on the idea that minorities tend to live in certain enclaves or cities because that is where they feel most comfortable. As a Hispanic, you probably know that black and brown communities were systemically pushed into segregated urban spaces through redlining, housing discrimination, zoning laws, and a lack of access to mortgages etc.. Not because of cultural preference. That is how those racial patterns formed and continue to exist today. And while some people have built beautiful communities within those limits, such as in ritzy Atlanta neighborhoods, for example, it's not historically accurate to simply imply preference.
Yes, you're correct about that. The origination of that is definitely majorly attributed to what you said. Now that those areas exist, and in our current times, it seems to be preferred by at least some to be near like individuals.
Because where you train or grow will shape who you are as a physician, and more importantly, as a person.
I agree, but I also hope that individuals are able to decide for themselves the values they deem important. Just because the area you train thinks one thing, does not mean you need to become that - as a doctor or person. I'm sure you agree with this but I felt it important to mention.


Thanks for the discussion! It's great to learn.
 
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