The Royal Veterinary College

[su_grad2007]

Does anyone know anything about the Royal Veterinary College in London. I got something in the mail from them today and I was thinking I might look into applying there but I really know nothing about them except that they are AVMA accredited and they're in London. I didn't apply to anywhere outside of the US mainly because I would never get to see my parents or the rest of the family and shipping my three pets to the UK seems expensive. Is anyone out there moving to the UK for vet school. How did you come to that decision? What are some of the advantages/ disadvantages. Thanks!

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[jeeney]

i got the same thing in the email the other day, too....! i've never heard of them either...i'm actually pondering the same thing...

 

[scws]

I have a friend (from the US) who is in her 1st year there, and she absolutely loves it! Supposedly they have the largest large animal facility or something...I'm not too sure. I don't know much about the college, except it looks beautiful in the pictues, it takes 5 (?) years to finish, and many of the european students there are younger b/c of their school system (choose to do vet med early on, etc).

 

[birdvet2006]

The RVC is an excellent school. For the first couple of years you are based mostly in London, but after that when you do your clinical studies, you are at their Hawkshead campus near Potters Bar. I did 2 weeks of my EMS (extramural studies) there at the equine centre - which is pretty large (compared to my vet school, Uni. of Glasgow) and well-equipped (including CT but no MRI yet). They do have an ambulatory service too, which is different from Glasgow. The Hawkshead campus is beautiful with new buildings etc. and in a more rural area than London itself.

An education in the UK is something different - although it's an English speaking country, the culture is very different and the education system is very different. You have to learn differently because most exams are cumulative...or at least the important exams are, at the end of the year.

I will never regret my UK education. I really enjoyed the ability to travel, to gain countless memorable experience (such as lambing and other EMS experiences), and to *live* the culture (something you can't do when just visiting a country). Living so far from my family and being all alone at first (until you make friends) was scary but really helped increase my maturity. Well worth it, IMO.

I know two people who are graduates of the RVC and who are now working in the USA. One recently got a dermatology residency, and the other is doing an internship at the moment. They are very happy with their education and RVC experience.

 

[judyrvc]

I graduated from the RVC in 2005 and it was definitely an awesome experience! It is great to be able to go to vet school in another country and have it be so easy to work in the US (due to the AVMA accreditation). Yes, it's a 5 year program. Yes, the British student are at least 4 years younger than you of not more. Yes, the education system is completely different from the US system. You essentially have 1 big test (4 days) a year that counts for the majority of your grade. There are occasional quizzes and papers during the year that may add up to 10% of your total grade.This is very difficult for those of us used to regular test throughout the year. I never thought I'd have to get used to seeing D's (or E,F, and Gs...I'm not kidding). And I really had to remind myself that D is for diploma.

The education was great. I felt that the first of the five years was a partial waste- biochem and microbio the first semester. But it gave the Americans a chance to get used to being in a new environment. I didn't mind too much. You do spend years 1 and 2 in London doing all preclinical stuff. Then you move about 20 miles north to Potters Bar (just outside the city but far enought that there is livestock) for years 3, 4 and 5. Most of the teaching facilities are brand new up there- very impressive. You do almost 6 months worth of extra-mural studies (aka externships) which gives you so many opportunities in addition to the clinical rotations.

In the end, you take the US boards (NAVLE) like all other American students, pass finals, get admitted to the RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons- which makes you sound extra special) and practice in the US. You can match for internships in the US. Only 5 of us applied from my year but we all ended up matching. And I'm matched for a dermatology residency at Florida for this upcoming year (of which there were only 8 spots offered). Moral of the story-you will get a great education, get to travel the world, get back into the US with no problem and can succeed in getting the job you want.

Wow, that was long. I hope this helps a bit. Please feel free to ask me any other questions you might have! Good luck if you apply!

 

[Hollycozza]

And yes living in Britain is definitely expensive. Many of our American students in Sydney complain about prices in Sydney, but Britain is much more expensive and ESPECIALLY London......

 

[su_grad2007]

I sent you a private message judyrvc. Thanks the info!

 

[cyrille104]

How do they have a good science background if they go straight from high school? Wouldn't that result in really more narrowly educated vets?

 

[ri23]

I think that having students right out of high school would be kind of annoying for those that graduate with a BS. I suppose they cover additional sciences that first year, but it doesn't give them a very well rounded education. I can't imagine being in professional school for my freshman year of college (nor my sophomore or junior ). I certainly wouldn't trade my undergrad years for anything in the world.

 

[InfiniVet]

I grew up in England and let me tell you - If you had $1200 a week (yep, a WEEK) to live on, living anywhere near London (because you cannot actually live in the city of London, its only about 4 square miles), you'd still be living like a pauper. Rent is amazingly expensive. Forget about having a car, its waay too expensive, not to mention its common for people fail the driving test for the first 3 times.
You can also forget about bringing your pets. Its a year long quarantine that you have to APPLY for, and a lot of animals don't make it from the harsh conditions of quarantine. Those that do are skinny and near death.

However, you will be a better veterinarian. Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

 

[sandiegosun]

I grew up in England and let me tell you - If you had $1200 a week (yep, a WEEK) to live on, living anywhere near London (because you cannot actually live in the city of London, its only about 4 square miles), you'd still be living like a pauper. Rent is amazingly expensive. Forget about having a car, its waay too expensive, not to mention its common for people fail the driving test for the first 3 times.
You can also forget about bringing your pets. Its a year long quarantine that you have to APPLY for, and a lot of animals don't make it from the harsh conditions of quarantine. Those that do are skinny and near death.

However, you will be a better veterinarian. Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

What about the new(-ish) PETS Travel Schema? It's a lot of paperwork and a six to seven month process but if you complete it, you should be able to skip quarantine entirely. I imagine though that if you wanted to travel regularly, you'd have to find a pet sitter.

 

[charoldy]

Actually, I did some searching and it seems like there are ways to avoid the quarantine time for pets (normally 6 months if they don't meet requirements).

I don't know this from experience, but if you're thinking about bringing pets to the UK, this website is somewhat helpful. The process is tedious- requires microchiping, blood test results, proof of rabies vacc and other things, but it's better than a 6 month quarantine or leaving pets in the US if you decide to go abroad.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/pets/procedures/owners.htm

Does anyone else know from experience?

 

[cyrille104]

However, you will be a better veterinarian. Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

How so? Again, I don't understand how they are prepared for vet school with only a high school science background...

 

[lazyjayn]

Infinivet- Are you sure the PETS scheme doesn't cover import? Because the way I read it, it deff. does. Which cuts the time down to... however long it takes you to clear customs and for them to find the chip, match the numbers, and sign the animal over to you.

Of course, you have to start 6 months early, but....

If you guys want to try for london, do it- it's a really cool place, there's lots of (free) stuff to see, and while rent can be really high, at least you can make up some of it with cheap baked beans and toast from tescos, really weird clothes and stuff from op shops, and London also has some of the best fare deals between the US and europe. Heck, last month United was trying to sell me NY or DC to london for less than $400 round trip.

I guess what I'm saying is- If london is what interests you, and they let you in, don't let little stuff like being on the other side of an ocean or cost or the age of the people you're studying with hold you back. Obviously there are limits to this, but... well, if rent's a problem, commute by rail, like everyone else. If weird food is a problem, ship some stuff from home before you leave. If being so far away is what's bothering you, well, between fare deals and skype, home isn't that much farther away than if you were just on the other side of the country.

RVC looks like they have an outstanding program. Some stuff they do a bit different from the US, Like the exams and the way they run schools. But after being around the kiwi kids here (who can't write to save their lives) every program has good and bad points- and you'd be amazed at how much science those 17 and 18 year olds have. And how little of everything else. It all balances out. Heck, how many science types do you see with crazy high math GRE who can't crack 500 on the wordy part- not really that different, is it?

And never underestimate just how cool it is to have other people tell you how brave and independent and cool you are for going someplace "foe-reign" for school. Well, after they finish telling you how you're going to die in some sort of fiery terror strike or from Mad Cow, or some other silly thing.

j.

 

[Aninha]

How so? Again, I don't understand how they let people into vet school with only a high school science background...

My country also has a similar system...you get into college after high school...vet school lasts 5 yrs. The thing is that the science and other background you get during highschool in these places is much stronger, broader, and harder than what you get during US highschool, for example. People take inorganic, organic, physics, calculus, etc...all of that while in high school. That's what happened to me...when i first started my undergrad in the US a lot of stuff I had done already. I'm not gonna lie and say that I feel undergrad was a waste, it was not! I definitely learned a lot!! But...it is very wrong to say that people coming from a different educational system/background are just *narrowly educated vets* and that other countries have a *wack education system*...

 

[dyachei]

How so? Again, I don't understand how they let people into vet school with only a high school science background...

From my understanding, students in England finish their compulsory education at 16. That's when their college starts and they get to choose what they study and take their a-level tests. I think its pretty specialized. Then they enter university for their course of study. Again, this is just from my understanding.

 

[su_grad2007]

Its a year long quarantine that you have to APPLY for, and a lot of animals don't make it from the harsh conditions of quarantine. Those that do are skinny and near death.

However, you will be a better veterinarian. Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

Actually the UK no longer requires a quarentine for bringing pets over from America although it is a 6 month process to get them approved.

 

[cyrille104]

My country also has a similar system...you get into college after high school...vet school lasts 5 yrs. The thing is that the science and other background you get during highschool in these places is much stronger, broader, and harder than what you get during US highschool, for example. People take inorganic, organic, physics, calculus, etc...all of that while in high school. That's what happened to me...when i first started my undergrad in the US a lot of stuff I had done already. I'm not gonna lie and say that I feel undergrad was a waste, it was not! I definitely learned a lot!! But...it is very wrong to say that people coming from a different educational system/background are just *narrowly educated vets* and that other countries have a *wack education system*...

Still, by definition of that system their education is less broad than is required for US vets. If they take inorganic and organic in high school, then it is in place of something else, as lazyjayn said - they know very little about anything else. Oh well, it doesn't really affect me since I'm going to a US school, but since vets are becoming part of an interdisciplinary effort to solve global problems, I think a broad education is important...but it's not like all of the sudden England will be like oh good idea and change their education system.

Just out of curiosity, Aninha, why did you decide to take such a longer path to vet school if you could have gone straight from high school?

 

[nessaf7]

Don't forget that in the UK the vet program is also like combined BSc and BVM&S (for instance at Edinburgh you graduate with a bachelor of veterinary science and a bachelor of veterinary medicine and surgery after 5 years).

 

[ri23]

What do they do for medical school in the UK?

 

[nessaf7]

The same as vet schools. Although I believe that some programs are 6 years long.

 

[birdvet2006]

However, you will be a better veterinarian. Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

Infinivet,

I disagree. Having "seen practice" for required EMS (extramural studies) at many practices in the UK - I must say the standards for vet care are lower. Most people are not willing to pay top dollar for a diagnosis - they are happy with antibiotic and steroid injections. A lot of British have pet veterinary insurance, making things different as well. Now don't get me wrong - there are a few places that practice more high quality (like almost all the vet schools), but in most of the UK, most people don't have that kind of money to spend on their pets (or just don't want to).

Also, the quarantine thing is wrong. The PETS scheme has been in place since my 1st or 2nd year of vet school. You must follow certain procedures in regards to rabies vaccination and deworming, that's all. Takes about 6 months. But I personally wouldn't bring my pets over if I didn't have to - that's a long flight (at least from California), and I enjoy going back and forth between countries (and I'm sure my pets wouldn't).

 

[birdvet2006]

Having the students be 4 years younger than me would really annoy me after working my butt off in undergrad for 4 years. How do they have a good science background if they go straight from high school? Wouldn't that result in really narrowly educated vets? That's a wack education system.

Cyrille, why is it that you think that the UK high school is equivalent to the US high school? I think a major benefit to a foreign education is that you realise there IS a whole different type of lifestyle outside of the American one. USA does not equal the world.

 

[lechatton]

and again, this is merely a formality question,
but if you grad from the uk/scotland vet school system, and return to the us to practice, are you allowed to call yourself a dvm, or is there another abbreviation you use after your last name?

 

[kate_g]

a lot of animals don't make it from the harsh conditions of quarantine. Those that do are skinny and near death.
...
Their standards of veterinary care are much higher than they are here

Interesting juxtaposition. I don't suppose you meant that ironically at all, did you?

 

[nessaf7]

and again, this is merely a formality question,
but if you grad from the uk/scotland vet school system, and return to the us to practice, are you allowed to call yourself a dvm, or is there another abbreviation you use after your last name?

You don't use the "DVM" at the end of your name, rather you put BVM&S if your graduated from Edinbrgh, BVMS if you graduated from Glasgow, some schools are BVSc, etc. However, I believe you can still call yourself Dr. X, at least from what I've heard from people like Cindy.

 

[CanadianDVM]

Having the students be 4 years younger than me would really annoy me after working my butt off in undergrad for 4 years. How do they have a good science background if they go straight from high school? Wouldn't that result in really narrowly educated vets? That's a wack education system.

I find this to be outrageously narrow minded and ignorant... And you have the audacity to call yourself "educated?" Given this statement I'd say that's unlikely.

 

[julieDVM]

I find this to be outrageously narrow minded and ignorant... And you have the audacity to call yourself "educated?" Given this statement I'd say that's unlikely.

100% agree.

I have worked with several british/irish trained students and I believe that their knowledge base is definitely on par, if not better than US trained grads.

 

[tiddlywinks]

I grew up in a country with an educational system modeled after England's, and the same examination system, so having it referred to as "wack" kind of offends me. It was nothing like high school. We take a full range of subjects up until 16 and then (sort of) specialize for the next 2 years- generally deciding if you want to go the arts and humanities or the sciences route. A lot of my class mates who knew they were going into medicine would just be taking physics, chemistry, biology, math, general paper (kind of like english/social studies) and possibly a second language.

The breadth of the education you get might be a little narrower than in the American system, especially towards the end when you're supposed to know what you want to do, but we don't "know very little about anything else". We were responsible for learning a LOT of information across all the subjects. I haven't been in an American high school, so I can't make a fair comparison, but our classes went on all day, we had a one month summer break rather than 3, and we studied hard. I moved to the US and started college here at 16, and truthfully, it's been a lot easier.

 

[judyrvc]

It is definitely an experience starting vet school at twenty-something when the British student are 18. In terms of maturity, there is no question that the age gap makes a difference. But just remember how you were when you first went off to college. It was your first time away from home, you could party and in the UK- drink since the legal age is 18. The British students start specializing from 16 years of age when they take their A levels. 3-4 subject specific classes for 2 years before going to University. Let me tell you, these kids are SMART! It killed me to see them partying while I studied and still had them kick my butt on exams. But by the time you hit 3rd-4th year, I think the age difference is minimal. You have all gotten to the same point together and it's closer to being in the real world. By the time you start rotations, there is virutally no difference. Some of my best friends from vet school are British and I forget that they are 4+ years younger than me.

As a side note, the comment about the using the letters DVM is correct. If you go to a British school, you can never use DVM after your name because it is NOT your degree. I use BVetMed, MRCVS (member of the roal college og veterinary surgeons) after my name. I am called Dr. in the US. Once you pass the NAVLE, you are condered equal to a US doctor.

 

[cyrille104]

double post

 

[cyrille104]

I find this to be outrageously narrow minded and ignorant... And you have the audacity to call yourself "educated?" Given this statement I'd say that's unlikely.

I think people are misinterpreting me. I wasn't being serious about it being a wack education system, it was more of a ...I think it just came across the wrong way. Sorry for offending whoever.

However, I still stand by my point (which was originally just a question) that the education isn't AS broad as in the US, which was confirmed in the posts by people with experience if you read. Something's gotta give - it's just brainstorming and logic.

Also, way to sink this even lower

A lot of my class mates who knew they were going into medicine would just be taking physics, chemistry, biology, math, general paper (kind of like english/social studies) and possibly a second language.
The breadth of the education you get might be a little narrower than in the American system

That was the only point I was even trying to make (or ask about before everyone started jumping on me ). I'm just saying that there's a reason that the US makes you take an extra *4* years.

but we don't "know very little about anything else". We were responsible for learning a LOT of information across all the subjects. I haven't been in an American high school, so I can't make a fair comparison, but our classes went on all day, we had a one month summer break rather than 3, and we studied hard. I moved to the US and started college here at 16, and truthfully, it's been a lot easier.

Well, I was just quoting from someone with experience to support my view. Fair point, though. One thing - the difficulty of your college depends on where you go, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison. Thanks for the post, though, this is a perspective I was looking for.

It is definitely an experience starting vet school at twenty-something when the British student are 18. In terms of maturity, there is no question that the age gap makes a difference. But just remember how you were when you first went off to college. It was your first time away from home, you could party and in the UK- drink since the legal age is 18.

This is the other side of it - yes they worked hard in high school but doesn't the age make a difference? The first part of your post says yes and the second part (which I didn't copy) says no...

Sorry for offending people, I just wanted a point-counterpoint. I'll use more neutral language in the future (that doesn't depend on the tone)

 

[doxiepup]

RVC has on campus housing for international students. Does anybody know if you can have pets (i.e. a 70 lb dog) in that housing (once you jump through all the other hoops just to get them there)? Probably not, I imagine it is not very spacious living but I just can't think of leaving my dog behind!

 

[keyvet]

How so? Again, I don't understand how they are prepared for vet school with only a high school science background...

The high school program in UK is much tougher than here. They learn much more science stuff than the average american colleges, probably equivalent to the first 2 years of BSc programs here.