The Sad Story of VC taking over EM

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What percent of their population got it? Not exactly herd immunity when such a small proportion of the Swedish population was affected.
I am no expert obviously but their public health officials are estimating 40% by mid May. again, if they can get through the immediate term with less than .5 nyc deaths (and Sweden has worst icu bed ratio!)how can they not claim success?

For the next 18 months we will have rolling shutdowns, economic uncertainty and armies of public health contact tracers and an inevitable 2nd wave?

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I am no expert obviously but their public health officials are estimating 40% by mid May. For the next 18 months we will have rolling shutdowns, economic uncertainty and armies of public health contact tracers?

Guess we will have to see what the numbers come out to but on a quick search for now they have had 14k cases out of a population of ten million.

To get to 40 percent by Mid May means that they are going to be headed for major major major major problems in the short term.
 
Guess we will have to see what the numbers come out to but on a quick search for now they have had 14k cases out of a population of ten million.

To get to 40 percent by Mid May means that they are going to be headed for major major major major problems in the short term.
14k probably reflects an abundance of not testing! If you are getting to let it rip, testing is not a priority. Will know more when more serological antibody testing deployed.
 
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Sweden has 152 deaths / 1 million citizens.
Neighbouring Norway and Finnland have 30 and 17 deaths / 1 million citizens respectively.

So far, Sweden's strategy is not paying off.
Of course, their death rate is lower than Spain's or Italy's with ca. 400 deaths / 1 million citizens, but Sweden had the time and resources to prepare itsel, they did not get overrun like those other 2 countries. They chose this path and so far more people are dying because of it compared to other, comparable countries.

Was it worth it? Time will tell... It is striking however that their course of action is rather unique in Europe at this point.
 
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Lets compare them to nyc? If Sweden comes through with lower death rate per capita than London or nyc, without the restrictions of those cities, why can’t they consider that a success?

How did they prepare? They have some of the lowest number of icu beds per capita in Europe? They have done some of the lowers amount of testing in the world per capita?
 
Lets compare them to nyc? If Sweden comes through with lower death rate per capita than London or nyc, without the restrictions of those cities, why can’t they consider that a success?

How did they prepare? They have some of the lowest number of icu beds per capita in Europe? They have done some of the lowers amount of testing in the world per capita?

their populations aren’t fat IDDM, COPD, smokers, CAD/PVD messes like in USA. This is AMERICA!!
 
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Lets compare them to nyc? If Sweden comes through with lower death rate per capita than London or nyc, without the restrictions of those cities, why can’t they consider that a success?

How did they prepare? They have some of the lowest number of icu beds per capita in Europe? They have done some of the lowers amount of testing in the world per capita?

It's hard to compare between countries because reporting and testing is so different. Sweden just isn't testing many people. Half as much as Denmark. One third as much as Norway. Are they counting deaths likely related to COVID the were untested? Who knows? Doubt it. Also, look at their deaths reporting day to day. It swings wildly all over the place. I get reporting may be delayed over the weekend (we see some element of that here too), but they are basically not reporting deaths over the weekend. I'd have very little confidence in any numbers they are reporting. Given the stance they've taken, it behooves them to report in the most conservative manner possible.
 
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It's hard to compare between countries because reporting and testing is so different. Sweden just isn't testing many people. Half as much as Denmark. One third as much as Norway. Are they counting deaths likely related to COVID the were untested? Who knows? Doubt it. Also, look at their deaths reporting day to day. It swings wildly all over the place. I get reporting may be delayed over the weekend (we see some element of that here too), but they are basically not reporting deaths over the weekend. I'd have very little confidence in any numbers they are reporting. Given the stance they've taken, it behooves them to report in the most conservative manner possible.
They aren't even discussing/mandating wearing masks in settings like nursing homes. Doubt they are doing Taiwan/sk level of testing...
 
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They aren't even discussing/mandating wearing in settings like nursing homes. Doubt they are doing Taiwan/sk level of testing...

taiwanese and koreans some of the most successful people in rad onc
 
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Sorry I’m super late to this discussion, but need to bring up OneOncology.It’s backed by a $200M PE General Atlantic and is very predatorial. Scooping up mostly Med Onc but also rad Onc practices.

Can you explain further? From my understanding, OneOncology is like US Oncology in that it provides practice management services. The physicians who partner with the organization pay a % of their income, but they aren't owned outright, such as with 21C. Am I getting this wrong?
 
Lets compare them to nyc? If Sweden comes through with lower death rate per capita than London or nyc, without the restrictions of those cities, why can’t they consider that a success?

I do not think it is "fair" to compare a country of 450.000 square kilometers to the 783 square kilometers of NYC. It is evident that many people living close together and coming in contact with each other a lot more than people living over a broader area will lead to a faster distribution of a virus of this kind.

How did they prepare? They have some of the lowest number of icu beds per capita in Europe? They have done some of the lowers amount of testing in the world per capita?
As far as I understand they did not impose strict restrictions on social interactions. They did impose some restrictions, but not as harsh as in other parts of Europe.

Where I live, the police will go into parks over the weekend and ask groups of 5-6 teenagers not to sit together on the grass but split up. And that's still mild.
There are places in Europe where you are not allowed to leave your house without sending a text message to a government number giving them your name, your location and the reason you are leaving your house. And there's only a set list of reasons why you are allowed to leave and a certain amount of time you are allowed to stay outside your home. If they pick up on the street and your time has "expired" then you are fined on the spot.

Back to Sweden though... I've read reports that in certain areas doctors proactively talked with their patients during the outbreak, if they want to be intubated. This was done before any big clusters appeated in Sweiden. Apparently, a lot of elderly people decided not to have a tube pushed down their throat if they were already quite old or otherwise ill and where to get COVID. This certainly spared resources.

The elderly are certainly the main target group of this virus. The median age of deceased because of COVID where I live is 84 years of age.
 
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Lets compare them to nyc? If Sweden comes through with lower death rate per capita than London or nyc, without the restrictions of those cities, why can’t they consider that a success?

How did they prepare? They have some of the lowest number of icu beds per capita in Europe? They have done some of the lowers amount of testing in the world per capita?
You can't compare a densely populated city with an entire country in the context of a pandemic, as population density is one of the strongest factors in viral spread. It would be more accurate to compare Sweden with Finland or Norway.
 
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Just playing devils advocate but almost all Swedish cases in Stockholm which is not unlike other large cities and I am sure Swedish population is mostly confined to several large cities. Based on logic, I would expect Stockholm with few restrictions - kids going to school must be spreading it left and right -and little testing to have more deaths per capita than nyc which has restrictions and more testing and more vents/icu beds per capita.

 
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NYC is much more dense, at 28k per square mile compared to Stockholm at 13k, If looking at metro areas, the difference becomes even wider. A better example would be Philadelphia which is at 12k. And doing pretty well.
 
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NYC is much more dense, at 28k per square mile compared to Stockholm at 13k, If looking at metro areas, the difference becomes even wider. A better example would be Philadelphia which is at 12k. And doing pretty well.
fair point. I guess the question is does keeping schools and bars open offset the population density difference. Particularly Keeping schools open seems like a good way to make sure that corona spreads like wildfire. Sounds like swedes feel lockdowns are only effective if done early and are very restrictive.
 
fair point. I guess the question is does keeping schools and bars open offset the population density difference. Particularly Keeping schools open seems like a good way to make sure that corona spreads like wildfire. Sounds like swedes feel lockdowns are only effective if done early and are very restrictive.
Lots of European countries are re-opening schools in May. Spain has already re-opened some of its schools. It remains unclear if children are a major vector of this disease.
 
NYC is much more dense, at 28k per square mile compared to Stockholm at 13k, If looking at metro areas, the difference becomes even wider. A better example would be Philadelphia which is at 12k. And doing pretty well.
NYC has a population density of 66,940 per square mile, Stockholm has a population density if 13,000 per square mile. That's enormous when we're talking about viral spread. Agree with Philly tho.
 
Not trying to be controversial but the same should be done in med onc and rad onc. If you’ve seen the rise of OneOncology that’s a private equity backed company that’s been growing and taking over practices. It’s one thing for a practice to want to organically grow but needs capital (and therefore lean on PE to get access to a lower cost of capital compared to say a bank) and it’s another for an aging partnership to sell the practice to a PE that’s chomping at the bit to grow thru “operational efficiencies”, cost cutting and at times limiting types of care, and making it difficult for the younger partners and next generation of physicians
 
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Not trying to be controversial but the same should be done in med onc and rad onc. If you’ve seen the rise of OneOncology that’s a private equity backed company that’s been growing and taking over practices. It’s one thing for a practice to want to organically grow but needs capital (and therefore lean on PE to get access to a lower cost of capital compared to say a bank) and it’s another for an aging partnership to sell the practice to a PE that’s chomping at the bit to grow thru “operational efficiencies”, cost cutting and at times limiting types of care, and making it difficult for the younger partners and next generation of physicians

Not to mention add another layer of bull**** between you and the prof fees you are entitled to.
 
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Not to mention add another layer of bull**** between you and the prof fees you are entitled to.
While I think (hope) we're generally aware of this, it is UNBELIEVABLY dismaying to me now, in a community setting, to realize how much "the system" is built to profit off our actions.

At least in academia, you can sometimes trick yourself to believe that there is a sort of "fortress of nobility" built around you, and some of the sticky fingers are sending funds towards "the mission" of healing the sick and pushing the boundaries of knowledge (I'm not convinced this is much more than an illusion).

In the community...good Lord. I know how much of my personal blood, sweat, and tears it takes to bring someone from consult to ringing a bell. Then a patient will show me a bill with some numbers on it, and I know how much of that number arrived in the form of "professional fees"...as far as percentages go, my spouse would get mad at me if I left that percentage as a tip for the waiter.

Linacs cost money, electricity costs money, toilet paper costs money, I get it...but I wish that toilet paper would contour a pancreas ITV for me every now and again. I feel like the toilet paper owes me that.
 
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While I think (hope) we're generally aware of this, it is UNBELIEVABLY dismaying to me now, in a community setting, to realize how much "the system" is built to profit off our actions.

At least in academia, you can sometimes trick yourself to believe that there is a sort of "fortress of nobility" built around you, and some of the sticky fingers are sending funds towards "the mission" of healing the sick and pushing the boundaries of knowledge (I'm not convinced this is much more than an illusion).

In the community...good Lord. I know how much of my personal blood, sweat, and tears it takes to bring someone from consult to ringing a bell. Then a patient will show me a bill with some numbers on it, and I know how much of that number arrived in the form of "professional fees"...as far as percentages go, my spouse would get mad at me if I left that percentage as a tip for the waiter.

Linacs cost money, electricity costs money, toilet paper costs money, I get it...but I wish that toilet paper would contour a pancreas ITV for me every now and again. I feel like the toilet paper owes me that.
Always Comes back to supply and demand and how radonc is obsessed with devaluating itself either through omission of xrt or oversupply.
 
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While I think (hope) we're generally aware of this, it is UNBELIEVABLY dismaying to me now, in a community setting, to realize how much "the system" is built to profit off our actions.

At least in academia, you can sometimes trick yourself to believe that there is a sort of "fortress of nobility" built around you, and some of the sticky fingers are sending funds towards "the mission" of healing the sick and pushing the boundaries of knowledge (I'm not convinced this is much more than an illusion).

In the community...good Lord. I know how much of my personal blood, sweat, and tears it takes to bring someone from consult to ringing a bell. Then a patient will show me a bill with some numbers on it, and I know how much of that number arrived in the form of "professional fees"...as far as percentages go, my spouse would get mad at me if I left that percentage as a tip for the waiter.

Linacs cost money, electricity costs money, toilet paper costs money, I get it...but I wish that toilet paper would contour a pancreas ITV for me every now and again. I feel like the toilet paper owes me that.

That fortress of nobility at academic centers is dissolving fast considering they are buying community practices by the fistful and coercing PP to join or leave. Making people “faculty”. Top it all off getting nice carve outs and exemptions from CMS.
 
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It’s 2021. There is one mission in any site (academic, community, private) of medicine: C.R.E.A.M.

The patient and everything else is a distant second.

This rule is also applicable to everything, everywhere.
 
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That fortress of nobility at academic centers is dissolving fast considering they are buying community practices by the fistful and coercing PP to join or leave. Making people “faculty”. Top it all off getting nice carve outs and exemptions from CMS.
Not to mention extreme price gouging.
 
Envision taking over many Anesthesia departments too...
Envision...what a name! My colleagues in Anesthesia are demoralized by Envision corporate mentality...
 
Physicians. Stop working for these ****ing companies. En masse. You are their only asset. If you all stop, they go away. Stop.
It is not that easy to pack and leave...
My Anesthesia colleagues don't have a choice, they have to work for Envision due to family reasons etc.
So sad for me to see my colleagues suffer.
At least Envision is not involved in radonc (yet)...
 
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Not trying to be controversial but the same should be done in med onc and rad onc. If you’ve seen the rise of OneOncology that’s a private equity backed company that’s been growing and taking over practices. It’s one thing for a practice to want to organically grow but needs capital (and therefore lean on PE to get access to a lower cost of capital compared to say a bank) and it’s another for an aging partnership to sell the practice to a PE that’s chomping at the bit to grow thru “operational efficiencies”, cost cutting and at times limiting types of care, and making it difficult for the younger partners and next generation of physicians

I wonder if anyone on this board has the expertise to discuss tactics to mitigate or reverse this corrosive trend. I have only a basic understanding.

If a small practice wants to grow, that typically involves a bank loan that the physician may need to personally guarantee. Large private equity giants have more access to credit (presumably at much lower rates) and all a better ability to structure the company in such a way to shield their company from the downside risk of bankruptcy (ie., 21st century and others). Management can continue to extract fees and take out additional debt against the value of the company. Much of this activity is tax advantaged. The value that such entities provide to physicians in terms of strategy or effective management is obviously dubious.

I guess the ultimate question I am posing is whether physicians can organize themselves in such a way to take advantage of these business strategies without involving the OneOncology's of the world.
 
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As I understand it, OneOncology does not buy out/acquire practices as other private equity has done in dermatology or EM, but takes a percent of their income in exchange for services and the physicians retain ownership. I don't know what the percentage is, but I'm sure it isn't small. For medical oncologists, the juice may be worth the squeeze if the discount they get on drugs through OneOncology allows higher margins. I'm not clear on the value proposition for radiation oncologists, other than perhaps a discount on new equipment.
 
As I understand it, OneOncology does not buy out/acquire practices as other private equity has done in dermatology or EM, but takes a percent of their income in exchange for services and the physicians retain ownership. I don't know what the percentage is, but I'm sure it isn't small. For medical oncologists, the juice may be worth the squeeze if the discount they get on drugs through OneOncology allows higher margins. I'm not clear on the value proposition for radiation oncologists, other than perhaps a discount on new equipment.
Service contracts, centralized physics/dosimetry
 
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As I understand it, OneOncology does not buy out/acquire practices as other private equity has done in dermatology or EM, but takes a percent of their income in exchange for services and the physicians retain ownership. I don't know what the percentage is, but I'm sure it isn't small. For medical oncologists, the juice may be worth the squeeze if the discount they get on drugs through OneOncology allows higher margins. I'm not clear on the value proposition for radiation oncologists, other than perhaps a discount on new equipment.
There are multiple ways to “grow” with these entities. In general, from a Rad Onc perspective, they tend to want a relatively big percentage - from what I’ve heard it’s ~20%. It’s sort of like having an external partner purchasing a portion of ones practice and in return you get a management services agreement, access to lower COC (cost of capital), some centralization of technical services, access to tech like EMR that have pathways, a national network of physicians, marketing etc etc. As one poster alluded to, the model may work better in med onc due to the benefits of a group purchasing organization - OneOncology can source drugs cheaper from multiple sources (AmerisourceBergen, cardinal, McKesson etc) than a single practice can and can more easily float the money needed to purchase those drugs. What’s in it for the private equity? They purchase a stream of profits without having to establish a new practice and compete in an existing market and their valuations start to go up exponentially as they add more assets and income streams to their books (think discounted cash flow and relative valuation techniques). Eventually, 5-10 years down the line, the private equity sells the venture off to the next buyer. CareMore (capitated Medicare advantage program) good example of these problems - new private equity bought it out and even more difficult now for their physicians to dispense chemo of any kind…
 
Thread '2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022'
2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022

For-profit hospital mega chain HCA now opening dermatology residency programs. My bet is derm labor market is going to tank if this picks up. Grads already have to compete with APPs for jobs
 
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Thread '2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022'
2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022

For-profit hospital mega chain HCA now opening dermatology residency programs. My bet is derm labor market is going to tank if this picks up. Grads already have to compete with APPs for jobs
Some elasticity in derm in that they can deliver a lot of cash pay cosmetic services.
 
There are multiple ways to “grow” with these entities. In general, from a Rad Onc perspective, they tend to want a relatively big percentage - from what I’ve heard it’s ~20%. It’s sort of like having an external partner purchasing a portion of ones practice and in return you get a management services agreement, access to lower COC (cost of capital), some centralization of technical services, access to tech like EMR that have pathways, a national network of physicians, marketing etc etc. As one poster alluded to, the model may work better in med onc due to the benefits of a group purchasing organization - OneOncology can source drugs cheaper from multiple sources (AmerisourceBergen, cardinal, McKesson etc) than a single practice can and can more easily float the money needed to purchase those drugs. What’s in it for the private equity? They purchase a stream of profits without having to establish a new practice and compete in an existing market and their valuations start to go up exponentially as they add more assets and income streams to their books (think discounted cash flow and relative valuation techniques). Eventually, 5-10 years down the line, the private equity sells the venture off to the next buyer. CareMore (capitated Medicare advantage program) good example of these problems - new private equity bought it out and even more difficult now for their physicians to dispense chemo of any kind…
The big question I would have is if they handle insurance contracts. If the large group can negotiate 50% more from private payers due to size or network compared to your local group that would easily justify their revenue percentage. If not it would be hard to justify unless they paid a goldmine. Remember with an overhead of 40%, 20% of revenue is 33% of your take home pay.
 
Thread '2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022'
2 NEW Dermatology PGY-2 slots starting July 2022

For-profit hospital mega chain HCA now opening dermatology residency programs. My bet is derm labor market is going to tank if this picks up. Grads already have to compete with APPs for jobs
I’m pretty sure HCA is one of the largest providers of residency spots in the country (across all residencies and all their hospitals)
 
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Per hca website
-5100 current residents/fellows
-1300 program graduates

That ratio shows the recency of their gme expansion
 
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The big question I would have is if they handle insurance contracts. If the large group can negotiate 50% more from private payers due to size or network compared to your local group that would easily justify their revenue percentage. If not it would be hard to justify unless they paid a goldmine. Remember with an overhead of 40%, 20% of revenue is 33% of your take home pay.
I’ve led our managed care team for a while and am part of a national network. Most of these contracts though are local and negotiated based on statewide leverage rather than nationwide leverage (consistent w the adage that healthcare is local). Although you’ll get some “expertise” in managed care from the national headquarters the negotiations are typically still local - at least my experience
 
Per hca website
-5100 current residents/fellows
-1300 program graduates

That ratio shows the recency of their gme expansion
And given most of these spots can’t receive Medicare funding, it really hammers home that residents are a cost savings, not a cost sink despite what academic centers say.

I wonder how much of their decision making comes from the idea of short term savings (residents cheaper then hiring more attendings or APPs) vs long term labor force effects (more docs in hospital based specialties = more labor supply = lower wages) which will get diluted across hospitals nationwide, not just for HCA.
 
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CareMore (capitated Medicare advantage program) good example of these problems - new private equity bought it out and even more difficult now for their physicians to dispense chemo of any kind

The caremore pe people sold to anthem a few years ago. At least in some locales, they contract exclusively with the absolute worst med onc groups in America. (Med Onc cannot work under the capitated rates these insurers want unless they frankly withhold care, especially immunotherapies).
 
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The caremore pe people sold to anthem a few years ago. At least in some locales, they contract exclusively with the absolute worst med onc groups in America. (Med Onc cannot work under the capitated rates these insurers want unless they frankly withhold care, especially immunotherapies).
Agreed. Their ex-CEO Sachin Jain at CareMore was a big part of that. He’s doing similar things now at a new MA plan. Pretty sure he’s making many millions a year
 
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