The salary for the new grad

[baobao]

I heard that for the new grad is only 70000 yearly if you are the associate. Is that the pretty common?

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[armorshell]

The place I worked had a starting salary for new graduates of 70 + 12% of production minus 50% lab fees. Most place do ~100 I believe.

 

[shamrock2006]

I would say that's pretty common. Yes dentists do make good money, well over 100k..even associates..and that # is likely to go up in the coming years. But I think it's probably pretty rare that you'll make 100k+ fresh out of school. You simply do not have the proficiency, the experience, and the speed for an established dentist to pay you that kind of money. You'll probably start somewhere in the 80k range i'd say, or if you're lucky 90k range (which is still good money dont get me wrong)....but IMO, you have to earn your way to that sweet salary, it wont just be given to you right out of d-school.

 

[afrosheen]

six figures in Cali. i guarantee you that livin in the yay

 

[PlanB21]

In Florida, the norm is usually around 100-120K from what 3 dentists told me. Some dentists do 500 dollars a day guaranteed. Some dentists do 35% take home of whatever you produce every month. 70-80K I guess is after the 30% income tax. Mvoing to a smaller town will also up your chances of getting paid more out of school, but i would rather take a pay cut than live in a country hicktown

 

[aphistis]

In Florida, the norm is usually around 100-120K from what 3 dentists told me. Some dentists do 500 dollars a day guaranteed. Some dentists do 35% take home of whatever you produce every month. 70-80K I guess is after the 30% income tax. Mvoing to a smaller town will also up your chances of getting paid more out of school, but i would rather take a pay cut than live in a country hicktown

You don't have to live there, just work there.

But it's fine with me either way. I'll cheerfully do bread & butter dentistry on all the patients I can handle while you compete for cosmetic cases with three other dentists in your building alone.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Phoenix area associates are making 100-120k/yr their first day out of school.

 

[Revelde]

I believe military dentists do make a living of 70k(not 100% cash but including all the bonus and benefits) from the first year out of school.

 

[darksky]

I heard that for the new grad is only 70000 yearly if you are the associate. Is that the pretty common?

i know a dentist w/ 10 yrs + experience works in a clinic, making 55 $ per hour.
dentists dont make any money. its a dirty job.

 

[armorshell]

i know a dentist w/ 10 yrs + experience works in a clinic, making 55 $ per hour.
dentists dont make any money. its a dirty job.

I know a dentist with poor business sense and no ambition too! Small world! Or maybe even simpler, the guy just doesn't like dealing with the hassle of collecting from patients (assuming it's a public health clinic)

The money's there in dentistry, but like anything else in life you have to work for it.

 

[lava890]

i know a dentist w/ 10 yrs + experience works in a clinic, making 55 $ per hour.
dentists dont make any money. its a dirty job.

If it's a dirty job to you, why are you applying?

 

[H2OPOLODENT]

At least as a starting dentist, you will generally be paid based on how much you work/how many patients you see (% production). Maybe you make ~100k starting out as an associate, but at least you won't be working as much as the more established guys. Someone fresh out of law school making that much (or a little more) will be working like a dog.

The pediatric dentists I work for hired an associate about 3 years ago. She started out producing about $12k/month. At 30% production, she was taking home $3600/month. Not that much money. After building up her patient base, now she's producing about $50-60k/month, takehome: $15-18k/month. The top dogs in the practice are at about $80-90k/month. That's $24-36k/month (for a full working month, which is rare since they take so much vacation time).

In a practice structure like that, you get paid on volume. Yeah, salary may start low, but at least you're chillin with only a few patients each day.

 

[darksky]

If it's a dirty job to you, why are you applying?

where is the sense of humour ?? i love to help people get well. and i have a teeth fetish.

 

[skyNice]

If it's a dirty job to you, why are you applying?

I believe it gets dirtier when you're aware that numerous dentists are warned each year of their unethical billings!

 

[darksky]

I know a dentist with poor business sense and no ambition too! Small world! Or maybe even simpler, the guy just doesn't like dealing with the hassle of collecting from patients (assuming it's a public health clinic)

The money's there in dentistry, but like anything else in life you have to work for it.

hey big men
would you work in dentistry for 20$ per hour ???

 

[Dental Dork 09]

5 of my upper classman friends have jobs setup with a salary but all have a bonus system built in.

Range is: 98k-120k + bonus

 

[darksky]

I know a dentist with poor business sense and no ambition too! Small world! Or maybe even simpler, the guy just doesn't like dealing with the hassle of collecting from patients (assuming it's a public health clinic)

The money's there in dentistry, but like anything else in life you have to work for it.

i know a dentist works for a free dental clinic that serves the underserved population. the dentist makes 55$ per hour. there are very few dentists would want to work for a charity organization. i pay great respect to this dentist because the dentist wants to help people who needs help.

 

[DDSY]

i know a dentist works for a free dental clinic that serves the underserved population. the dentist makes 55$ per hour. there are very few dentists would want to work for a charity organization. i pay great respect to this dentist because the dentist wants to help people who needs help.

I know a dentist who earns so much less than that. He is a dentist from a foreign country and works as a taxicab driver.

 

[armorshell]

hey big men
would you work in dentistry for 20$ per hour ???

If I made $20/hour I wouldn't be able to cover even the minimum payment on my loans, and I'd default right out of school.

So no, I wouldn't

 

[OceanBlue]

you can go as high as 140k-150k...fresh out of school in North Carolina. Texas you can start out around 120-130k. I'm pretty sure i'm going to get my own practice when I go out. It is a bit more risky...but life sucks without risks. Got a couple of friends buying their own practices when they came out...they did very well for themselves. I'm just trying to learn a couple of things from them.

 

[armorshell]

you can go as high as 140k-150k...fresh out of school in North Carolina. Texas you can start out around 120-130k. I'm pretty sure i'm going to get my own practice when I go out. It is a bit more risky...but life sucks without risks. Got a couple of friends buying their own practices when they came out...they did very well for themselves. I'm just trying to learn a couple of things from them.

Same idea here, perhaps associate or GPR for a year or two to both scout out locations and build up some speed/skill

 

[OceanBlue]

Same idea here, perhaps associate or GPR for a year or two to both scout out locations and build up some speed/skill

Good idea! But I think you can use those two years to build your own patient pool, and you can build up your speed/skills as you work in your own practice. The thing about about starting out fresh is that you have to know a lot of things (business wise) prior to the day that you just come out of dental school. It's very doable because i've seen it with my own eyes.

 

[OceanBlue]

I know a dentist who earns so much less than that. He is a dentist from a foreign country and works as a taxicab driver.

are you making fun of me?

 

[DDSY]

are you making fun of me?

No, but thanks for the ride to the coffeeshop.

 

[OceanBlue]

No, but thanks for the ride to the coffeeshop.

that'll be 55 dollars plus tip ....and uhmm...tax. That's 150 total.

 

[shamrock2006]

you can go as high as 140k-150k...fresh out of school in North Carolina. Texas you can start out around 120-130k. I'm pretty sure i'm going to get my own practice when I go out. It is a bit more risky...but life sucks without risks. Got a couple of friends buying their own practices when they came out...they did very well for themselves. I'm just trying to learn a couple of things from them.

Wow...they are probably in astronomical levels of debt..and will be for many many many years. I couldn't even imagine buying my own place right out of school...but then again, i'm going military so I wouldnt know...it'll be nice after 4+ yrs having zero debt and buttloads of experience under my belt.

 

[armorshell]

Wow...they are probably in astronomical levels of debt..and will be for many many many years. I couldn't even imagine buying my own place right out of school...but then again, i'm going military so I wouldnt know...it'll be nice after 4+ yrs having zero debt and buttloads of experience under my belt.

Debt is relative. Owning their own practice they should be making a lot more money.

 

[shamrock2006]

Debt is relative. Owning their own practice they should be making a lot more money.[/QUOTE

True, but my only issue with that is getting the patient base to make that money. I mean, unless you have a complete monopoly on the area, I can't imagine many people are going to feel all that comfortable going to a practice owned by a fresh d-school grad. Plus, business skills will be lacking...you have payrolls, start up costs, etc...not to mention personal expenses..mortages, car payments, insurance, etc...and if you have a family..yikes. My parents own a veterinary clinic and i know first hand how much of a pain in the a$$ it still is and my dad has been in practice for 25 yrs. He didn't get his own place until 10 yrs after he graduated. Yes DVM is different from DDS...but the same basic principles of owning a practice apply. So yes, I agree debt is relative...but for me its hard to overlook ~200k (at least) debt from dschool..then the ginormous loan to take out to start your practice..all to take the risk of starting a practice fresh out of school. I mean if you can pull it off, sweet deal, more power to you. I just think you have invested too much in your education to risk it that soon.

 

[armorshell]

Remember, a lot of these people aren't breaking ground on a brand new office, they're doing practice transitions. They're buying into already established patient pools, and often the selling doctor stays on for a few years as an associate to make the transition smooth.

 

[4thQtrDreams]

My friend graduated then associated for 2 years and then opened up his own practice in midtown Manhattan this past August. Yes, there are at least 20 other dentist in the same building, and even 1 other dentist in the shared office space, yet there seems to be an instant patient pool.. he works at his office 3 days a week and is an associate at his old location for 1 day.

I work at his office on Saturdays and it really is amazing how swamped he is considering that it has been open for only 7 months. He has even hired a hygienist who is booked solid for weeks. its an average 2-3 week wait to get in for an appointment.. Very encouraging.. I dont ask too much about finances of it all, but his 1st year out i believe he made $140k and is on pace to make 240k at his office in its 1st year.

 

[darksky]

i urge you all new grad to strive for higher cause that is to give back to your community by working for a free dental clinic.

 

[4thQtrDreams]

i urge you all new grad to strive for higher cause that is to give back to your community by working for a free dental clinic.

I sorta plan to do this if i get a NHSC Scholarship, but i think even they pay you more than $20/hour

 

[OceanBlue]

Wow...they are probably in astronomical levels of debt..and will be for many many many years. I couldn't even imagine buying my own place right out of school...but then again, i'm going military so I wouldnt know...it'll be nice after 4+ yrs having zero debt and buttloads of experience under my belt.

I don't know if this helps....one of them told me paying back is not a problem. They didn't go to a cheap school either...they went to tufts. However, when they first started out, they worked 5-6 days a week. They just started out and i went there, their patients were literary lining up outside of their practices.

 

[OceanBlue]

[/quote]True, but my only issue with that is getting the patient base to make that money. I mean, unless you have a complete monopoly on the area, I can't imagine many people are going to feel all that comfortable going to a practice owned by a fresh d-school grad. Plus, business skills will be lacking...you have payrolls, start up costs, etc...not to mention personal expenses..mortages, car payments, insurance, etc...and if you have a family..yikes. My parents own a veterinary clinic and i know first hand how much of a pain in the a$$ it still is and my dad has been in practice for 25 yrs. He didn't get his own place until 10 yrs after he graduated. Yes DVM is different from DDS...but the same basic principles of owning a practice apply. So yes, I agree debt is relative...but for me its hard to overlook ~200k (at least) debt from dschool..then the ginormous loan to take out to start your practice..all to take the risk of starting a practice fresh out of school. I mean if you can pull it off, sweet deal, more power to you. I just think you have invested too much in your education to risk it that soon.[/quote]

not the same as a dental clinic. Just don't go crazy with the new digital technologies when you first came out. Buy things in bulk. Don't go with brand names. Some people have family members to help out at the front desk...etc...etc...
~yes, i am awared of the comments that were posted by some of the SDN dentists when I wrote what i wrote.

 

[JamieMac]

Debt is relative. Owning their own practice they should be making a lot more money.

Agreed, but there is a learning curve to any business venture, and dentistry is no exception. Based on what I've been told, most d-schools do not focus on the business aspect of running a practice. Having owned two businesses of my own, I can tell you that many that just jump right in will face much higher stress levels compared to those doing a year or two working as an associate. Spending a year or two to get your bearings (and save a little cash) would be a better choice for most.

 

[shamrock2006]

True, but my only issue with that is getting the patient base to make that money. I mean, unless you have a complete monopoly on the area, I can't imagine many people are going to feel all that comfortable going to a practice owned by a fresh d-school grad. Plus, business skills will be lacking...you have payrolls, start up costs, etc...not to mention personal expenses..mortages, car payments, insurance, etc...and if you have a family..yikes. My parents own a veterinary clinic and i know first hand how much of a pain in the a$$ it still is and my dad has been in practice for 25 yrs. He didn't get his own place until 10 yrs after he graduated. Yes DVM is different from DDS...but the same basic principles of owning a practice apply. So yes, I agree debt is relative...but for me its hard to overlook ~200k (at least) debt from dschool..then the ginormous loan to take out to start your practice..all to take the risk of starting a practice fresh out of school. I mean if you can pull it off, sweet deal, more power to you. I just think you have invested too much in your education to risk it that soon.[/quote]

not the same as a dental clinic. Just don't go crazy with the new digital technologies when you first came out. Buy things in bulk. Don't go with brand names. Some people have family members to help out at the front desk...etc...etc...
~yes, i am awared of the comments that was posted by some of the SDN dentists when I wrote what i wrote.[/QUOTE]



Yes, I'm aware a vet clinic and a dental clinic are different. I said further on that DVM is not the same as DDS. However, my father, my dentist and I often spend time together..and I can tell you they agree 100% that the start up costs for any small healthcare practice are the same (which is why they tell me they think i've made a smart choice by going on a military scholarship)...despite the profession. Many vet clinics have high tech gizmos as well. My point was, it's not easy, and in many ways not very logical, to just jump in and start a practice....I agree with armorshell, you should transition if you're looking to one day have your own place. Or at least just work in an office for a few years to build up your skills, save some dinero, then get the ball rolling.

 

[armorshell]

Agreed, but there is a learning curve to any business venture, and dentistry is no exception. Based on what I've been told, most d-schools do not focus on the business aspect of running a practice. Having owned two businesses of my own, I can tell you that many that just jump right in will face much higher stress levels compared to those doing a year or two working as an associate. Spending a year or two to get your bearings (and save a little cash) would be a better choice for most.

I definitely agree, and as I posted above that's exactly what I plan to do. I'm certainly not going to have enough time to learn how to run a business in dental school, and during my first few years out I'm going to do just that (while building up my skills,!)

 

[zebrafish]

I definitely agree, and as I posted above that's exactly what I plan to do. I'm certainly not going to have enough time to learn how to run a business in dental school, and during my first few years out I'm going to do just that (while building up my skills,!)

Or you can be buisness savy, maybe take some buisness classes before you get your DDS or DMS and if you lucky find someone who is willing to finance you practice or at least co-sign. I don't think that it is impossible to start a year out of school. I know some people who have done it and are very sucessful. It helps though if you have friends or family with money to finance your cause .

 

[armorshell]

Or you can be buisness savy, maybe take some buisness classes before you get your DDS or DMS and if you lucky find someone who is willing to finance you practice or at least co-sign. I don't think that it is impossible to start a year out of school. I know some people who have done it and are very sucessful. It helps though if you have friends or family with money to finance your cause .

That's definitely an option if you've got the gift. I happen to not be particularly business saavy

 

[zebrafish]

That's definitely an option if you've got the gift. I happen to not be particularly business saavy

Hey don't discredit yourself...if your smart enough to get into Dental school, buisness is not as hard. Read up and you'll be great. It all comes down to cutting cost without comprimising your service, good advertising and crunching #'s...HAVE FAITH in yourself!

 

[UJ007]

That's definitely an option if you've got the gift. I happen to not be particularly business saavy

I think ppl with science degrees (and high enough marks to get into d-school nonetheless) are more than capable of learning anything ppl in business programs learn. You just gotta be willing to invest the time and take some risk and i'm sure it will payoff.

 

[zebrafish]

I think ppl with science degrees (and high enough marks to get into d-school nonetheless) are more than capable of learning anything ppl in business programs learn. You just gotta be willing to invest the time and take some risk and i'm sure it will payoff.

I AGREE!!!! now don't get me wrong, not all buisness is easy, (my spouse is a finance major) there can be some pretty complicated formulas involved, however even if a practive grosses 1.5 million that is still a small buisness; with the right advisors or education we should all be able to manage.

 

[ItsGavinC]

but then again, i'm going military so I wouldnt know...it'll be nice after 4+ yrs having zero debt and buttloads of experience under my belt.

It's also nice having ones own practice right after graduating, not having to report to anybody else, and making 2-3x more than military dentists.

Who comes out ahead in this game? It all depends on what you value.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Just don't go crazy with the new digital technologies when you first came out. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, don't do that, because those digital thingies don't stand any chance of helping your patients better understand your tx. plan and dx.

 

[armorshell]

Isn't the ADA mandating that all practices be digital by 2015?

By the time we graduate we might as well go digital anyway...and besides by then it will probably be both cheaper and more commonplace.

 

[OceanBlue]

Just don't go crazy with the new digital technologies when you first came out.

Yeah, don't do that, because those digital thingies don't stand any chance of helping your patients better understand your tx. plan and dx. [/quote]


hey man! if you got the money then go with it. The more you're using money from the bank to get those expensive equipments, the more you have to pay back WITH INTEREST! What I heard from folks who started out successfully...they've been telling me the same things over and over again. Once you're set, then you can go digital and all of that if you want. This is just my opinion buddy. I know the type of neighborhood where i'm going to be working in and I can tell you that those patients probably don't care much about digital technologies. All they want to know are 2 things: 1) is it going to hurt 2) how much will it cost? Maybe you can roll differently...........

 

[shamrock2006]

It's also nice having ones own practice right after graduating, not having to report to anybody else, and making 2-3x more than military dentists.

Who comes out ahead in this game? It all depends on what you value.

I guess so...I didn't decide to go military b/c of not having debt. I'm doing it b/c it's something that runs in my family and I know exactly what it has to offer. As I said before, if you can swing having your own place right out of school...then that's awesome, I hope it works out for the best. I simply think that all the "money" that can be made tends to blind a lot of students to all the crap that is to follow post d-school. I just think people tend to get ahead of themselves. and I understand you'll be making 2-3x that of a military dentist, but come four years from now most still will probably be in the 6 figure debt range...on top of other expenses. But like I said, if you can deal with all that...then more power to you. I hope you have nothing but success......Plus, i've spoken to many other dentists who always tell me that wish they would have gone military..b/c many of their professional friends who have done that came out and were getting all kinds of offers to buy into fantastic practices..and could do so b/c they had no school debts, and tons of experience...so there are both sides. I'm not saying military is the best way to go...it's just the best way to go for me.

 

[JamieMac]

Or you can be business savvy, maybe take some business classes before you get your DDS or DMS and if you lucky find someone who is willing to finance you practice or at least co-sign.

Possessing business savvy is vastly different from just taking a few business classes prior to finishing d-school. Some are naturals and can pick up things very quickly, while others will need to rely on a key employee (office manager) to assist them with running/building a practice. I have a business degree with majors in finance and accounting...and I found that many who are teaching haven't actually "been" in business. They can teach and test you on theory all day long, but being "out there" is very different. I utilized as much of my education as possible, but I actually learned much more just being in business.

The best education that you can receive is by working for someone who is successful at what they do (in practicing and business management). If you keep your eyes and ears open while there, it will be the best paid education that you can get. Trust me...don't reinvent the wheel. For this reason alone, I plan to work for someone for a full year prior to obtaining my own practice. Best of luck!

 

[JamieMac]

I think ppl with science degrees (and high enough marks to get into d-school nonetheless) are more than capable of learning anything ppl in business programs learn. You just gotta be willing to invest the time and take some risk and i'm sure it will payoff.

You might be right about the "learning" part, BUT the part you omitted is the applying part. Being in business has its challenges...many of which you will not learn about in any classroom. Many dentists are good at what they do, but due to poor business management, have a difficult time enjoying the fruits of their labor. I can assure you that being really smart doesn't provide a free ticket to running a successful business. If you acknowledge your strengths, weaknesses, and limitations, and find ways to balance them in a business model, it will allow you to maximize your potential as a <fill in the blank>. Good luck!

 

[UJ007]

You might be right about the "learning" part, BUT the part you omitted is the applying part. Being in business has its challenges...many of which you will not learn about in any classroom. Many dentists are good at what they do, but due to poor business management, have a difficult time enjoying the fruits of their labor. I can assure you that being really smart doesn't provide a free ticket to running a successful business. If you acknowledge your strengths, weaknesses, and limitations, and find ways to balance them in a business model, it will allow you to maximize your potential as a <fill in the blank>. Good luck!

What i meant by my post was that if people are smart/hard working etc to obtain entrance to dental school they can learn not just theory about business but also how to apply it in real life. I just don't think that having a good business sense is something innate that you either have or don't have. I think you acquire it through learning and experience.