The Salary Question!!

[Dr Gump]

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I have seen many posts lately asking about starting salaries for Optometrists. I would like to shed some light on this question and how you should ask it.

I am an employer and this question is very "selfish" and self-centered. The question you should be asking is "How much am I worth?". I realize many of you are undergraduates and probably have never had a "real" job. You still think of salaries as flat fees paid by your employer. Being a PROFESSIONAL, the salary requires alot more explanation.

You need to realize that when you ask about a salary for a PROFESSIONAL vocation, it is quite different than asking about a salary for a sales position or other service related vocations. You are a DOCTOR. The salary for this title is based on your motivation and care of your patients.

Let me elaborate.

Basically, if you are a self employed doctor (aka private practice) your salary is roughly 33% of every patient encounter. If you are an employed doctor your salary is roughly 50-60% of every patient encounter.

Sounds like a wash for being an employee...right?? WRONG! At the end of the day what do you have? What happens if the corporate entity you are leasing space from finds another sucker....I mean doctor to fill their space, because you are not filling their optical quota?? You are SOL. Nothing to show for all your hard work except charts...maybe.

When you are a private practice doctor, you own the practice and all the assets within. You can even hire another doctor to work for you and make around 15 % of all their patient encounters. You won't be fired, and you will have something of value to sell on the open market. Some practices aren't worth buying, but that is another story.

The next factor in this "salary" question is the third party reimbursement. In this day of recession and stock market crashes, individuals do not depend on cash for their payments. They depend on their insurance...be it medical or crappy vision plan. You must get paid by this third party. Reimbursements vary depending on the type of exam you perform, if you bill a major medical insurance or a "discounted" price with a crappy vision plan. "Not every patient encounter is created equally." They are not reimbursed equally either. This is a sad but true fact and you should prepare yourself for this inequality.

Reimbursement is different for different regions of the country, too. An Optometrist can make $120,000 in San Francisco and be destitute, while another Optometrist can make $80,000 in San Antonio and be well off. Cost of living needs to be factored into the equation.

As you can see, salaries for PROFESSIONALS are complicated. My suggestion to you is to think this through before you throw out that "How much" question. You want to be a PROFESSIONAL, start acting like one.

Good luck,

Dr. Gump

 

[Jay12]

Wonderfully said Dr. Gump 👍

 

[KHE]

I have seen many posts lately asking about starting salaries for Optometrists. I would like to shed some light on this question and how you should ask it.

I am an employer and this question is very "selfish" and self-centered. The question you should be asking is "How much am I worth?". I realize many of you are undergraduates and probably have never had a "real" job. You still think of salaries as flat fees paid by your employer. Being a PROFESSIONAL, the salary requires alot more explanation.

You need to realize that when you ask about a salary for a PROFESSIONAL vocation, it is quite different than asking about a salary for a sales position or other service related vocations. You are a DOCTOR. The salary for this title is based on your motivation and care of your patients.

Let me elaborate.

Basically, if you are a self employed doctor (aka private practice) your salary is roughly 33% of every patient encounter. If you are an employed doctor your salary is roughly 50-60% of every patient encounter.

Sounds like a wash for being an employee...right?? WRONG! At the end of the day what do you have? What happens if the corporate entity you are leasing space from finds another sucker....I mean doctor to fill their space, because you are not filling their optical quota?? You are SOL. Nothing to show for all your hard work except charts...maybe.

When you are a private practice doctor, you own the practice and all the assets within. You can even hire another doctor to work for you and make around 15 % of all their patient encounters. You won't be fired, and you will have something of value to sell on the open market. Some practices aren't worth buying, but that is another story.

The next factor in this "salary" question is the third party reimbursement. In this day of recession and stock market crashes, individuals do not depend on cash for their payments. They depend on their insurance...be it medical or crappy vision plan. You must get paid by this third party. Reimbursements vary depending on the type of exam you perform, if you bill a major medical insurance or a "discounted" price with a crappy vision plan. "Not every patient encounter is created equally." They are not reimbursed equally either. This is a sad but true fact and you should prepare yourself for this inequality.

Reimbursement is different for different regions of the country, too. An Optometrist can make $120,000 in San Francisco and be destitute, while another Optometrist can make $80,000 in San Antonio and be well off. Cost of living needs to be factored into the equation.

As you can see, salaries for PROFESSIONALS are complicated. My suggestion to you is to think this through before you throw out that "How much" question. You want to be a PROFESSIONAL, start acting like one.

Good luck,

Dr. Gump

I'm going to a take a different perspective on this...

1) Salary and expected compensation are very legitimate concerns considering students are most likely going to need a multi 6 figure debt load and four years of blood, sweat and tears to get through the program. Having a reasonable ROI is a legitimate concern, particularly in light of the incredibly wide range of salaries quoted on the internet.

2) No pre-optometry or optometry student is going to have an adequate frame of reference to understand that the true cost to employ them is far beyond their paycheck.

3) If any doctor in my employ is being paid 50-60% of what they bring in then either one of two things will happen:
a) They will be let go because I am not busy enough to need an associate
b) They will be FIRED because they are incompetent.

Any doctor that I employ needs to be bringing in at a MINIMUM 5X their pay into the office. If I'm paying them $400 per day, they need to be bringing in at least $2000. If I'm paying them $500 per day, they need to be bringing in at least $2500.

 

[Dr Gump]

I'm going to a take a different perspective on this...

1) Salary and expected compensation are very legitimate concerns considering students are most likely going to need a multi 6 figure debt load and four years of blood, sweat and tears to get through the program. Having a reasonable ROI is a legitimate concern, particularly in light of the incredibly wide range of salaries quoted on the internet.

2) No pre-optometry or optometry student is going to have an adequate frame of reference to understand that the true cost to employ them is far beyond their paycheck.

3) If any doctor in my employ is being paid 50-60% of what they bring in then either one of two things will happen:
a) They will be let go because I am not busy enough to need an associate
b) They will be FIRED because they are incompetent.

Any doctor that I employ needs to be bringing in at a MINIMUM 5X their pay into the office. If I'm paying them $400 per day, they need to be bringing in at least $2000. If I'm paying them $500 per day, they need to be bringing in at least $2500.

Perhaps you took my diatribe incorrectly. I understand that salary is the foremost factor driving many to make vocational choices. My problem is the sophmoric attitude many display in their posts.

I chose to enlighten many who don't have that proper frame of reference. Way back in the day when I was making my life choices, respect and integrity surrounded the medical field. Perhaps we have slipped a few notches.

I only hire full time employees and do not pay them per diem. I am looking at a broader scope than you. I think 50-60% is reasonable in the long term. My overhead is probably less than yours.

Thanks for your comments.

Dr. Gump

 

[QbanOD]

I have seen many posts lately asking about starting salaries for Optometrists. I would like to shed some light on this question and how you should ask it.

I am an employer and this question is very "selfish" and self-centered. The question you should be asking is "How much am I worth?". I realize many of you are undergraduates and probably have never had a "real" job. You still think of salaries as flat fees paid by your employer. Being a PROFESSIONAL, the salary requires alot more explanation.

You need to realize that when you ask about a salary for a PROFESSIONAL vocation, it is quite different than asking about a salary for a sales position or other service related vocations. You are a DOCTOR. The salary for this title is based on your motivation and care of your patients.

Let me elaborate.

Basically, if you are a self employed doctor (aka private practice) your salary is roughly 33% of every patient encounter. If you are an employed doctor your salary is roughly 50-60% of every patient encounter.

Sounds like a wash for being an employee...right?? WRONG! At the end of the day what do you have? What happens if the corporate entity you are leasing space from finds another sucker....I mean doctor to fill their space, because you are not filling their optical quota?? You are SOL. Nothing to show for all your hard work except charts...maybe.

When you are a private practice doctor, you own the practice and all the assets within. You can even hire another doctor to work for you and make around 15 % of all their patient encounters. You won't be fired, and you will have something of value to sell on the open market. Some practices aren't worth buying, but that is another story.

The next factor in this "salary" question is the third party reimbursement. In this day of recession and stock market crashes, individuals do not depend on cash for their payments. They depend on their insurance...be it medical or crappy vision plan. You must get paid by this third party. Reimbursements vary depending on the type of exam you perform, if you bill a major medical insurance or a "discounted" price with a crappy vision plan. "Not every patient encounter is created equally." They are not reimbursed equally either. This is a sad but true fact and you should prepare yourself for this inequality.

Reimbursement is different for different regions of the country, too. An Optometrist can make $120,000 in San Francisco and be destitute, while another Optometrist can make $80,000 in San Antonio and be well off. Cost of living needs to be factored into the equation.

As you can see, salaries for PROFESSIONALS are complicated. My suggestion to you is to think this through before you throw out that "How much" question. You want to be a PROFESSIONAL, start acting like one.

Good luck,

Dr. Gump

Well Dr. Gump, since your description of "selfish" and "unprofessional" clearly doesnt fit me, with all due respect, let me shed some light with you:

I guess that when you were growing up, or decided to become an optometrist it indeed was another time. Lets say what 1970s-1980s there wasnt that sense of induvidualism in this country as there exists now, THIS IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY, meaning "MONNNEY", and if some people stop trying to act, then I know you know it. Dont tell me that at the end of you're day you are just working to be an employer, and not see whats in it for you. If you don't look after yourself now days NO ONE WILL HELP YOU, its defferent times now growing up and chosing what you want to be, its not as easy anymore. We have a crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government, messed up inequality of the social classes that may treat you like shi%$@t if you fall below their structures, and on top, ON TOP of all that, we have a president with really narrow point of views trying to run us all down like suckers for our taxes, and now PLEASE tell me if I shouldn't ask that question. Hey, Im sorry if I asked TWO very controversial questions, ABOUT MONEY????!!! come on, the #1 most interested and money driven country...Please, dont take the sensative card on me know, because if I AM NOT WRONG MOST OF THE U.S. VOTED FOR BUSH!!!!!!! INSTEAD OF KERRY, yeah, to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, I have been on both sides and there is nothing that would make me feel better that to give back to where I was raised.

And yes, I do know about business despite my young age, so please try not to impress me with big numbers and percentages, my aunt is a radiologist and she too owns not one, but THREE practices, she employs about 11-13 personels depending on the business size. And at the end of the day besides doing what she loves, she ALSO gets a pretty nice present for being such a good girl, and lets say its a little above 7 figures. But thats not the point, the point is that when I ask the "money" question, its not a matter of being selfish, nor arrogant, but more of my social standing after BUSTING myself for 5 more years with a 1 year old son....👍

 

[Dr Gump]

Well Dr. Gump, since your description of "selfish" and "unprofessional" clearly doesnt fit me, with all due respect, let me shed some light with you:

I guess that when you were growing up, or decided to become an optometrist it indeed was another time. Lets say what 1970s-1980s there wasnt that sense of induvidualism in this country as there exists now, THIS IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY, meaning "MONNNEY", and if some people stop trying to act, then I know you know it. Dont tell me that at the end of you're day you are just working to be an employer, and not see whats in it for you. If you don't look after yourself now days NO ONE WILL HELP YOU, its defferent times now growing up and chosing what you want to be, its not as easy anymore. We have a crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government, messed up inequality of the social classes that may treat you like shi%$@t if you fall below their structures, and on top, ON TOP of all that, we have a president with really narrow point of views trying to run us all down like suckers for our taxes, and now PLEASE tell me if I shouldn't ask that question. Hey, Im sorry if I asked TWO very controversial questions, ABOUT MONEY????!!! come on, the #1 most interested and money driven country...Please, dont take the sensative card on me know, because if I AM NOT WRONG MOST OF THE U.S. VOTED FOR BUSH!!!!!!! INSTEAD OF KERRY, yeah, to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, I have been on both sides and there is nothing that would make me feel better that to give back to where I was raised.

And yes, I do know about business despite my young age, so please try not to impress me with big numbers and percentages, my aunt is a radiologist and she too owns not one, but THREE practices, she employs about 11-13 personels depending on the business size. And at the end of the day besides doing what she loves, she ALSO gets a pretty nice present for being such a good girl, and lets say its a little above 7 figures. But thats not the point, the point is that when I ask the "money" question, its not a matter of being selfish, nor arrogant, but more of my social standing after BUSTING myself for 5 more years with a 1 year old son....👍

Nice rant. Sounds like you have alot on your plate. I also appreciate your political and economic lesson.

I was merely trying to enlighten individuals and give them pause. Seems like you took it personally. Sorry. I am humbled by your massive amount of experience and knowledge.

Good luck with your endeavors. You sound like you know what to do. If I was you, I wouldn't waste my time on a forum such as this. I would start my own and tell everybody what to do.

Dr. Gump

PS The busting of one's hump does not end at the completion of your educational curriculum..it only begins. That is when it becomes reality.

 

[eyestrain]

It's good to see we have another level-headed pre-opt here. Just what we needed.

 

[QbanOD]

Nice rant. Sounds like you have alot on your plate. I also appreciate your political and economic lesson.

I was merely trying to enlighten individuals and give them pause. Seems like you took it personally. Sorry. I am humbled by your massive amount of experience and knowledge.

Good luck with your endeavors. You sound like you know what to do. If I was you, I wouldn't waste my time on a forum such as this. I would start my own and tell everybody what to do.

Dr. Gump

PS The busting of one's hump does not end at the completion of your educational curriculum..it only begins. That is when it becomes reality.

Wow really doc!!! Im so happy that I could enlighten you with my thoughts, I am so sorry if we misunderstood each other, your humbleness is so reluctant by the way you tried to make less of "people" with your "self centered" and "selfish" comments about some people out there without knowing them, THATS A REAL EYE OPENER to Optometry thanks a lot master.

PS Do not have a clue what you mean with "open your own forum and tell everyone what to do", pretty unprofessional from someone like you. But anyways I dont have time for this, as I am sure you have "your own practice" right now to attend to and not waste your time here texting with such a simply being like me.

 

[QbanOD]

Nice rant. Sounds like you have alot on your plate. I also appreciate your political and economic lesson.

I was merely trying to enlighten individuals and give them pause. Seems like you took it personally. Sorry. I am humbled by your massive amount of experience and knowledge.

Good luck with your endeavors. You sound like you know what to do. If I was you, I wouldn't waste my time on a forum such as this. I would start my own and tell everybody what to do.

Dr. Gump

PS The busting of one's hump does not end at the completion of your educational curriculum..it only begins. That is when it becomes reality.

Wow really doc!!! Im so happy that I could enlighten you with my thoughts, I am so sorry if we misunderstood each other, your humbleness is so reluctant by the way you tried to make less of "people" with your "self centered" and "selfish" comments about some people out there without knowing them, THATS A REAL EYE OPENER to Optometry thanks a lot master.

PS Do not have a clue what you mean with "open your own forum and tell everyone what to do", pretty unprofessional from someone like you. But anyways I dont have time for this, as I am sure you have "your own practice" right now to attend to and not waste your time here texting with such a simply being like me.

 

[KHE]

Lets say what 1970s-1980s there wasnt that sense of induvidualism in this country as there exists now, THIS IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY, meaning "MONNNEY", and if some people stop trying to act, then I know you know it. Dont tell me that at the end of you're day you are just working to be an employer, and not see whats in it for you. If you don't look after yourself now days NO ONE WILL HELP YOU, its defferent times now growing up and chosing what you want to be, its not as easy anymore. We have a crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government, messed up inequality of the social classes that may treat you like shi%$@t if you fall below their structures, and on top, ON TOP of all that, we have a president with really narrow point of views trying to run us all down like suckers for our taxes, and now PLEASE tell me if I shouldn't ask that question.

Seriously....if you think we didn't have "crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government and messed up inequality of the social classes" in the 70s and 80s then I'm afraid you are in dire need of some history books.

 

[QbanOD]

Seriously....if you think we didn't have "crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government and messed up inequality of the social classes" in the 70s and 80s then I'm afraid you are in dire need of some history books.

The 70s and 80s were referred to as INDIVIDUALISM, and my friend if you didn't know that, you should really pick up a government book.

 

[KHE]

The 70s and 80s were referred to as INDIVIDUALISM, and my friend if you didn't know that, you should really pick up a government book.

Huh? 😕 Referred to as "individualism" by who? And please spare me any 1st year community college references to Ayn Rand and Rousseau.

In your earlier posting, you complained that in the 70s and 80s there wasn't as much "individualism" as there is now, thereby making it easier to "make it" as an optometrist. Now you seem to be complaining about the rampant individualism of the 70s. I'm totally missing your point.

And again, if you don't think we had "crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government and messed up inequality of the social classes" in the 70s and 80s then you're sadly wrong.

 

[QbanOD]

Huh? 😕 Referred to as "individualism" by who? And please spare me any 1st year community college references to Ayn Rand and Rousseau.

In your earlier posting, you complained that in the 70s and 80s there wasn't as much "individualism" as there is now, thereby making it easier to "make it" as an optometrist. Now you seem to be complaining about the rampant individualism of the 70s. I'm totally missing your point.

And again, if you don't think we had "crumbling economy, prices going up, corrupted government and messed up inequality of the social classes" in the 70s and 80s then you're sadly wrong.

Hey man the community college sh#it you know where to put it up through aiight. You have no clue were I go.....And what I said to you was that in my earlier paragraph the 70s and 80s talk was "referred to" individualism "talk", not the economy "talk", as you tried to imply that I was also referring to the economy when if you read right, I wasnt, that was a whole different sentence intrometido. In case YOU DIDNT KNOW there was lesssssssss "individualism" than now, and by the earlier quote I was just trying to say that, but obviously I didn't have time to waste on a big paragraph. Dont get it twisted just because you are already there, to me you are just the same $#!t.

 

[KHE]

Hey man the community college sh#it you know where to put it up through aiight. You have no clue were I go.....And what I said to you was that in my earlier paragraph the 70s and 80s talk was "referred to" individualism "talk", not the economy "talk", as you tried to imply that I was also referring to the economy when if you read right, I wasnt, that was a whole different sentence intrometido. In case YOU DIDNT KNOW there was lesssssssss "individualism" than now, and by the earlier quote I was just trying to say that, but obviously I didn't have time to waste on a big paragraph. Dont get it twisted just because you are already there, to me you are just the same $#!t.

Oh dear....what a hot head we have on our hands.

And did you really say aiight? Aiight? Seriously? On a forum for future doctors? Aiight. I don't think I've heard that from anyone other than an obnoxious 6th grader in the last...oh...I don't know......10 YEARS!!! 🙄

Incredible.

 

[SarahNC]

Wow this thread got ridiculous. I do agree that it is unprofessional to go around asking every optometrist what they make, but its only logical to understand the return you are making on an "investment." If I borrow 140 grand for optometry school and the salary for an optometrist is only 30 grand, it doesn't seem logical to make that investment. The cost of school and living and interest keeps rising, so to be fair, we have to compare the pros and cons of obtaining such an expensive education. It should go without saying that salary isn't the only reason to become an optometrist, but give me a break, it is important to every single person in making their career choice.

 

[eyestrain]

Hey man the community college sh#it you know where to put it up through aiight. You have no clue were I go.....And what I said to you was that in my earlier paragraph the 70s and 80s talk was "referred to" individualism "talk", not the economy "talk", as you tried to imply that I was also referring to the economy when if you read right, I wasnt, that was a whole different sentence intrometido. In case YOU DIDNT KNOW there was lesssssssss "individualism" than now, and by the earlier quote I was just trying to say that, but obviously I didn't have time to waste on a big paragraph. Dont get it twisted just because you are already there, to me you are just the same $#!t.

Dear Lord, do you really expect anyone to listen to or respect you? Your posts make you sound like a petulant child.

 

[QbanOD]

O MY GOD O MY GOD!!!!! NO, A HOTHEAD!!! You all are ridiculous man. Wasting your time......jajajaja. Damn, thats what optometrist do, I feel bad for you guys.....REALLY

 

[QbanOD]

Iiiiiight...........

 

[blysssful]

Dear Lord, do you really expect anyone to listen to or respect you? Your posts make you sound like a petulant child.

 

[DryEye]

Iiiiiight...........

Why don't you ask your good friend who's an optometrist? I'm sure he can give you an idea about how the salary works...

 

[Jay12]

O MY GOD O MY GOD!!!!! NO, A HOTHEAD!!! You all are ridiculous man. Wasting your time......jajajaja. Damn, thats what optometrist do, I feel bad for you guys.....REALLY

....this guy is a lunatic.

"I feel bad for you guys"......yet you've always wanted to be one of the "guys"......

jajajajajajajajajajajaja..........

 

[StushOD]

O MY GOD O MY GOD!!!!! NO, A HOTHEAD!!! You all are ridiculous man. Wasting your time......jajajaja. Damn, thats what optometrist do, I feel bad for you guys.....REALLY

A pre-opt? I doubt it.

Any true pre-opt who has spent anytime on here appreciates the knowledge and experience relayed from level headed docs like Dr. Gump and KHE. Please keep the valuable info coming!

 

[PeteRose]

While Dr. Gump give some sage advice, I couldn't disagree more with the body of his argument. To imply that someone is less than professional for asking "how much", especially in this age, is to kind of silly. Yes one should expect to put in time. Yes one should expect there are variables like location and insurance compensation. But these students are not dumb, with the expecption of maybe one on this thread. They certainly think these things through. But at the end of the day they have six figure school debt and these lectures, while sincere, do not pay the bills. Of course they are going to ask these questions and more, and they have every right to know what kind of income they can expect. To tell them otherwise doesn't do them a service. Dr. Gump is correct to point out that there is equity in owning a practice and over time you will hopefully have something to show for your work. However, this one sided slant fails to mention that there are many good and prosperous optometrists out there who cannot sell because young ODs either have large dept or they are uncomfortable with more dept. And as he correctly touches on, with this current economy, you may not be able to even get a loan. I know lots and lots and lots and lots and did I say lots of optometrists who cannot retire because no one will buy their practices and they have so much invested the only option they have is to continue working. Dr. Gump also states that at the end of the day those in the corporate world only have charts. Categorically untrue. At the end of the day they have a pocket full of cash and options for the future; two things a new private OD will not have. And to further this point, I'd suggest that all of you students take some economics classes as part of your education. What you will find is that compounded interest can make you a fortune in the long run. I would contest that if you graduate from optometry school in your 20's making over six figures (can easily be done, even in San Antonio) and you pocket a third of it, you will have sacrificed much less than Joe Private and in 20 years you will have millions (yes millions, refer back to the compounded interest). Joe Private likely will not have as much because he will make the bulk of his money on the back end because he was working for Dr. Gump right out of school and Dr. Gump failed to tell him he wouldn't reach six figures for a long time. Yet what he has done is invested all his life into a practice that now he has the stress of trying to sell and can't move back home to take care of his ailing mother in Iowa cause he is stuck in this practice that he can't get out of in Vermont. Now its true, at age 55, Joe Private might be bringing in $250,000 in today's money while Joe Commercial is still only somewhere in the low $100's. But (again back to economics) when Dr. Commercial was pocketing and saving over 30k a year, Dr. Private was in a buyout process where he made 50k a year and was lucky to be able to put 5K a year in a Roth IRA. Now Dr. Gump would argue that Dr. Commercial has had an awful career because he is a "sucker" and that Dr. Private is well established, respected member of his community. Again, not true. Dr. Commercial has more money to travel, his wife has no pressure to work if she doesn't desire, he can give away more money to his church or favorite charity, and has the freedom to move to Haiti to do mission work if he desires or join the armed forces or whatever he chooses to do by simply saying "I quit." And he has all of these things by asking "how much?" I absolutely applaud Dr. Gump for his helpfulness in offering his take on this. But when I was in school this is the same perspective I got from the academic community, and I wish someone had taken the time to tell me that there are people who work commercial optometry who love what they do. I am one of them and I've been doing it long enough to say that with experience. While QbanOD by all accounts won't pass freshman English, much less organic chem, he is correct to point out that times are a bit different now than when many of our senior OD's graduated. Most of them had no debt and commercial practices were few and far between. When they sing the praises of private practice, they are doing so because that route was profitable. Those were the glory days. But this is 2008 and many of you have huge debt. If so, students, think long and hard before you commit to adding to your 150k debt load by borrowing thousands more to buy a practice. Debt is not fun, and there are no guarentees. I know a couple who had six figure school debt between them and their practice failed. They now still have six figure school debt and debt from a practice that no longer exists. Please consider these things. This is real money you guys are dealing with. Of course I know many who bought practices right out of school or worked for a senior OD for a few years before buying and are very happy. And, on the reverse, I know many who work commercially and curse the day they got an OD degree. All I want to do is give a fair and honest counter point so you all will have exposure to differing opinions. Dr. Gump is apparently successful and happy in what he does in his private setting, hence his reason for keeping you all informed. Likewise, I consider myself to be successful in my commercial setting and hope you take something from my perspective. But I simply have to disagree with his opinion that you guys are somehow being selfish and self-centered by trying to get a perspective on what you can expect. Further, I would, with all do respect to Dr. Gump, encourage all of you to ask that question and many many more so you'll know exactly what you are getting into when you go into this field and especially before you decide to take on all the debt that many of you will. It's your's and your families' futures you are considering here. Please ask questions. Sorry for the length of my post. I hopefully say all this with the utmost humility and have no intention on stepping on anyone's toes.

Sincerely,
PeteRose

 

[xmattODx]

Pete - paragraphs are your friend.

 

[PeteRose]

Sorry Matt. Guess I flunk freshman english along with the other kid.

 

[EyeWitness]

I feel like peterose's rant was more useful than 80% on the garbage on here.

 

[gochi]

why dont mods do there jobs ?

 

[VisualSpirit]

I love Pete Rose.

That's all.

😍

 

[Dr Gump]

Well this thread has gone from a bashfest to a lovefest. Peterose has some valid points and I am happy he is successful in his position. There are some things that concern me about his current job, however.

This first is that he is an employee. It is wonderful he is carrying around a load of cash and he seems to be very financially responsible. The problem is that he is being paid from someone who is being paid for his sweat. I believe he is being paid $25 or something like that per patient and averages 4 patients an hour. Being a self employed doctor allows me the freedom to set my own exam fees (which is relative, since most of my patients have major medical insurance) and set my own schedule. In my prior life, I was an employee. That is one of the many things that drove me to become self-employed....AUTONOMY! Working in a corporate atmosphere allows some autonomy, but there are many people watching your production. Big brother is the only one watching me.

The second is the commitment of time to his job. 10 hours a day, 4 days a week. He aspires to work like this till retirement, which for most is 65. Quite a haul. Many don't understand, but seeing patients at a certain pace becomes tedious and tiresome. This affords mistakes and burn-out. I could probably see less patients and produce more income in less time. The old adage is "Work smarter, not harder." I am also planning on retiring well before 65 and will probably have the assets to successfully achieve this. My responsibilities require more attention and time than a corporate doctor, but, again, I am my own boss. I sometimes yell at myself in the mirror, but that guy will still walk away with a job.

It is always good to see a successful doctor laud his choice, but I would like everyone to take pause and think about his position. While happy and content at this time, will it last? Peterose is smart enough to have stored money away and I hope he continues with his prosperity.

My situation is stable until I choose to walk away. The day to day struggle is always present, but the income will continue to increase. This is a comforting feeling.

What will you do??

Good luck.

Dr. Gump