The “science” of chiropractic

[bedrock]

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Confessions of a Former Chiropractor

Chiropractor-turned-statistician J. Michael Menke exposes the profession from the inside: the pseudoscience, the sales culture, the millionaire coaches, and why “helping 50 percent of patients” is nothing to celebrate.

www.skeptic.com

 

[pastafan]

I have always admired how chiropractic is like Freudian Psychoanalysis.

In Freudian psychoanalysis, resistance is defined as the unconscious opposition to the unveiling of repressed, painful memories and the therapeutic process itself. Rather than a simple failure of willpower, Freud viewed it as the ego’s protective mechanism against anxiety. Treatment failure often occurs when these resistances are not successfully analyzed and resolved, or when the therapeutic alliance is overwhelmed by negative transference or external circumstances.

In chiropractic the patient resisted, tensed up during manipulation, etc.

Failure can be blamed on the patient, not the practice/practitioner. This is a brilliant strategy.

 

[Laryngospasm]

I’ve always admired their ability to convince patients to come to twice weekly visits lol

 

[geauxg8rs]

I’ve always admired their ability to convince patients to come to twice weekly visits lol

Yet they can’t do pt twice a week

 

[mille125]

They also seem to get patients to pay for private pay services without much thought.

Chiro up the street charges $3000 for shockwave 5 treatments and seems to do fine with patients paying (based on some that I talk to). I actually charge $75 first first and $150 each after and I get more reluctance even on patients who saw chiros previously and had success.

They definitely have some magic there.

 

[SpineandWine]

They also seem to get patients to pay for private pay services without much thought.

Chiro up the street charges $3000 for shockwave 5 treatments and seems to do fine with patients paying (based on some that I talk to). I actually charge $75 first first and $150 each after and I get more reluctance even on patients who saw chiros previously and had success.

They definitely have some magic there.

It’s just a culture. People expect to pay out of pocket/
Same with dentist- they sell cash based incentives and people expect it


People don’t expect doctors to “sell” cash based treatments unless it’s cosmetic

 

[mille125]

It’s just a culture. People expect to pay out of pocket/
Same with dentist- they sell cash based incentives and people expect it


People don’t expect doctors to “sell” cash based treatments unless it’s cosmetic

I know you are right. I just found it interesting that a patient paid a chiropractor $3000 for 6 shockwaves and my charge for the same was about 35% of that and she hesitated. She ended up paying but seemed uncertain even though the treatment from the chiro gave her 100% relief for 9-12 months for her plantar fasciitis

Just seemed odd to me but probably what you said. People do seem to pay for direct primary care though. There are at least 15 in my town of about 100-110K and seems like more are popping up.

 

[SpineandWine]

I know you are right. I just found it interesting that a patient paid a chiropractor $3000 for 6 shockwaves and my charge for the same was about 35% of that and she hesitated. She ended up paying but seemed uncertain even though the treatment from the chiro gave her 100% relief for 9-12 months for her plantar fasciitis

Just seemed odd to me but probably what you said. People do seem to pay for direct primary care though. There are at least 15 in my town of about 100-110K and seems like more are popping up.

They charge 200$/half hour visit?
Insurances can’t squeeze them anymore. They’re already getting screwed

 

[mille125]

asking about DPC docs?

They charge a subscription fee. Usually $1500-$2000 per year. They have very few staff. No insurance stuff. So they figure out how much they want to make and adjust the patient panel to reflect that.

 

[JMichaelMenke]

Confessions of a Former Chiropractor

Chiropractor-turned-statistician J. Michael Menke exposes the profession from the inside: the pseudoscience, the sales culture, the millionaire coaches, and why “helping 50 percent of patients” is nothing to celebrate.

www.skeptic.com

since the above article.

An Insider’s Look at What Happened When Chiropractic Was Evaluated Scientifically, and Why No One Remembers

A chiropractor spent decades pushing his profession toward rigorous science, certain the evidence would vindicate it. The trials finally came back—null. Then the field simply forgot. An insider’s account of the research that answered the question, and why almost no one remembers it happened.

www.skeptic.com

 

[lobelsteve]

since the above article.

An Insider’s Look at What Happened When Chiropractic Was Evaluated Scientifically, and Why No One Remembers

A chiropractor spent decades pushing his profession toward rigorous science, certain the evidence would vindicate it. The trials finally came back—null. Then the field simply forgot. An insider’s account of the research that answered the question, and why almost no one remembers it happened.

www.skeptic.com

The first post.
Also the author of the update.
Thank you for sharing.

 

[Agast]

They also seem to get patients to pay for private pay services without much thought.

Chiro up the street charges $3000 for shockwave 5 treatments and seems to do fine with patients paying (based on some that I talk to). I actually charge $75 first first and $150 each after and I get more reluctance even on patients who saw chiros previously and had success.

They definitely have some magic there.

My patient told me they were sold a package of Decompression/Softwave/adjustment for 24 sessions, for $6,000.

I was like....that's actually a really good price for all that if you get 24 sessions!

 

[clubdeac]

since the above article.

An Insider’s Look at What Happened When Chiropractic Was Evaluated Scientifically, and Why No One Remembers

A chiropractor spent decades pushing his profession toward rigorous science, certain the evidence would vindicate it. The trials finally came back—null. Then the field simply forgot. An insider’s account of the research that answered the question, and why almost no one remembers it happened.

www.skeptic.com

Interesting articles. If nothing else the guy has a really interesting life.

 

[Asclepius186]

Chiros love telling people that one leg is shorter than the other and people eat it up.

Patient with severe stenosis and claudicating symptoms - “well the chiropractor said it’s because my left leg is 1/2 shorter than my right”

 

[PM&ARGHH]

Chiros love telling people that one leg is shorter than the other and people eat it up.

Patient with severe stenosis and claudicating symptoms - “well the chiropractor said it’s because my left leg is 1/2 shorter than my right”

And treat it with a life long 2 x week cash only maintenance package.

Side note i find if a patient fixates on irrelevant anatomical differences, or the “my body is special” sign it’s usually a very poor prognostic indicator. Often the sign can be precipitated by a visit to the friendly neighborhood chiropractor. Often have an attitude that standard of care doesn’t apply because “my pelvis is twisted” “my leg is shorter” “my L6 vertebrae”

 

[BobBarker]

I absolutely hate the L6 nonsense. No one has a an actual extra vertebral body.

 

[Laryngospasm]

Chiros love telling people that one leg is shorter than the other and people eat it up.

Patient with severe stenosis and claudicating symptoms - “well the chiropractor said it’s because my left leg is 1/2 shorter than my right”

And thus I need to adjust you three times a week for eternity because that leg is not going to grow.. reminds me of the Seinfeld where his wallet was too fat

 

[Welcome123]

They also seem to get patients to pay for private pay services without much thought.

Chiro up the street charges $3000 for shockwave 5 treatments and seems to do fine with patients paying (based on some that I talk to). I actually charge $75 first first and $150 each after and I get more reluctance even on patients who saw chiros previously and had success.

They definitely have some magic there.

Perhaps you should be charging more.