The scope of podiatrist in the future great article guys

[V4viet]

http://www.podiatryonline.com/main.cfm?searched=/careers/pro_development/noSOP.cfm

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[Dr_Feelgood]

V4viet,
What scope do you want in podiatry? You always seem to post articles that are pushing for unlimited practice, so I'd like to see where you stand. My opinion is that below the knee is enough. If I wanted more, I'd be an orthopod. So what are you looking for? Are you hoping that one day you’ll be able to go through the dorsalis pedis and perform heart surgery?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

As for me posting different scopes about podiatry, it's not that i want to practice anything else it's that i want to share with future podiatrist in this forum and keep any updates that i run across so if you dont appreciate it dont read it. It doesn't hurt to know extra informations on what's going on in the field does it?

I ask what you want out of podiatry b/c until last week you didn't even know what a podiatrist was, then you complained about the smell, and now you are ready to go to a PM&S-36 tomorrow. I'm all for the sharing of knowledge but I just wanted to know what you wanted from podiatry. I work hard for this profession, for my colleagues, for my college, my family, and myself, and I don't want podiatrist who wanted to be an MD or DO but could get the grades or MCATs. In another of your posts you ask if you could start at a pod school and transfer. So I want to know what you intentions are. Is too much too ask? I want to see podiatry continue to move forward, not to continue to be the profession for those who couldn’t cut it!

 

[doclm]

V4viet,
What scope do you want in podiatry? You always seem to post articles that are pushing for unlimited practice, so I'd like to see where you stand. My opinion is that below the knee is enough. If I wanted more, I'd be an orthopod. So what are you looking for? Are you hoping that one day you’ll be able to go through the dorsalis pedis and perform heart surgery?

The way I see it, there are many different aspects within the human body that have a direct effect on how people walk with their legs and feet. I truely believe that Podiatry should be more about being a specialist in the lower extremities that affect walking on your feet than just the ankle/foot. Podiatry is what it is today because of limitations. THe foot and ankle is not everything that affects people with that cannot walk with their feet. (Its like having separate doc degrees for the spine and brain respectivly). I believe that Podiatry should go at least to the scope of the the bones from the knee down and the muscles and nerves from the hip down. This would enable more "lower extremity specialist" Podiatrists to help other problems with people walking on their feet/ankle.

Hey this is just my opinion, lets see yours.

 

[dawg44]

The way I see it, there are many different aspects within the human body that have a direct effect on how people walk with their legs and feet. I truely believe that Podiatry should be more about being a specialist in the lower extremities that affect walking on your feet than just the ankle/foot. Podiatry is what it is today because of limitations. THe foot and ankle is not everything that affects people with that cannot walk with their feet. (Its like having separate doc degrees for the spine and brain respectivly). I believe that Podiatry should go at least to the scope of the the bones from the knee down and the muscles and nerves from the hip down. This would enable more "lower extremity specialist" Podiatrists to help other problems with people walking on their feet/ankle.

Hey this is just my opinion, lets see yours.

Be careful for what you wish for and remember who is the majority here , MDs and DOs. Remember encroaching on the territory of the orthopod is a sure fire way to get no referrals from MDs and DOs.

 

[jonwill]

The way I see it, there are many different aspects within the human body that have a direct effect on how people walk with their legs and feet. I truely believe that Podiatry should be more about being a specialist in the lower extremities that affect walking on your feet than just the ankle/foot. Podiatry is what it is today because of limitations. THe foot and ankle is not everything that affects people with that cannot walk with their feet. (Its like having separate doc degrees for the spine and brain respectivly). I believe that Podiatry should go at least to the scope of the the bones from the knee down and the muscles and nerves from the hip down. This would enable more "lower extremity specialist" Podiatrists to help other problems with people walking on their feet/ankle.

Hey this is just my opinion, lets see yours.

.
Some states already have that scope more or less. My home state scope of practice is osseous from the tibial tuberosity down/soft tissue from the thigh down.

 

[IlizaRob]

Be careful for what you wish for and remember who is the majority here , MDs and DOs. Remember encroaching on the territory of the orthopod is a sure fire way to get no referrals from MDs and DOs.

I agree with you here. I dont think podiatrists should ever increase scope to go into the knee. We are not trying to be orthopedic surgeons but are rather specialists in the lower extremity, specifically the foot and ankle. This is what we should stick to. This is why I decided to become a podiatrist. I think the tibial tuberosity is as high as we should go osseous wise. But I think we should be able to harvest tissue from the thigh if we need it for podiatric reasons and if it is within our training.

 

[krabmas]

the barry block email said that there was just legislation introduced in FL to reduce the scope of practice in florida. I do not know the specifics but itseems like it is based on money and taking patients away from orthopods.

 

[runnersfeet]

You are on the DO forum saying that you are applying to DO schools, so I am just wondering if you are indecisive about whether you want to be a DO or a DPM...or if you just want to be a DO, but think that you are not able to get in, and thus you are instead trying to get into pod school??? Im just curious because on this forum you say that you are very passionate about being a DPM, but on that forum, you say that your intent is to be a DO. I think that if you want to be a DO, then you should really just take time off to get whatever scores you need to get into DO school - it is silly to go to pod school and if it is not what you want to do. There is nothing wrong with exporing different professions and taking time to determine what you want to do, but i dont think its a good idea to go into a career (namely podiatry) where people are passionate about the career, while you are just taking it as a "next best."

http://www.podiatryonline.com/main.cfm?searched=/careers/pro_development/noSOP.cfm

 

[dawg44]

the barry block email said that there was just legislation introduced in FL to reduce the scope of practice in florida. I do not know the specifics but itseems like it is based on money and taking patients away from orthopods.

The pressures on the entire health care system are enormous. With the buzz words of marketshare and reimbursement it makes you wonder if the whole doctor shortage thing is a bunch of hooey.

 

[JustMyLuck]

Be careful for what you wish for and remember who is the majority here , MDs and DOs. Remember encroaching on the territory of the orthopod is a sure fire way to get no referrals from MDs and DOs.

the majority being MDs and DOs doesn't mean we have to kiss up to them. Just by the nature of what podiatrists do (foot and ankle surgery) we are in direct competition w/ foot&ankle ortho guys. I think we should increase our scope to include the knee. The greater our scope of practice, the more marketable we are.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I do believe that there will be a shortage of physicians soon but maybe not today. But with the retirement of baby-boomers, that is a large chunk of healthcare providers.

As for reimbursement, that is another area that we as physicians need to band together and bring to an end. We work or will work in the only industry that allows people to pay whatever they want. If you fill up w/ gas you can't tell Exxon Mobile, I think I'm going to only pay you 40% of this bill. I know people feel health care costs are out of control but look as Exxon's profits last year, the largest amount by a US company ever, over 36 billion. I hate unions but I think that an agreement among all US physicians is needed to end this BS.

 

[efs]

the majority being MDs and DOs doesn't mean we have to kiss up to them. Just by the nature of what podiatrists do (foot and ankle surgery) we are in direct competition w/ foot&ankle ortho guys. I think we should increase our scope to include the knee. The greater our scope of practice, the more marketable we are.

This looks like people are missing the whole point of the scope of practice issue. It just doesn't work this way. It's not about deciding what our scope of practice ought to be and then making it so. It's about bringing the scope up practice up to the level of our current training.

As it is, there are states where podiatrists cannot do things that they trained on and are competant at simply because of the scope of practice in that state. This should be changed.

ESSENTIALLY ALL MEDICAL SPECIALTIES HAVE A LIMITED SCOPE OF PRACTICE. The orthopod is not about to perform open heart surgery, not trained for it. The family practicioner is not going to do a tibial nail, not trained for it. You can come up with your own examples. What you are allowed to do is based on what you are trained to do, and your local hospital (community) etc with do this through a number of means. However, all of the above practitioner's can write prescriptions for a cold medicine, or give their medical advice about a big cut on your arm. Legally those things are out of scope of practice for a DPM, but would be well within the bounds of our training. The idea behind an "unlimited" scope of practice isn't that DPMs will suddenly be doing knee scopes (not trained or credentialled for it), but that they can take care of the simple thangs that may not be directly related to the foot and ankle. You would still need your residency training before being able to do surgery, still have to go through the hospital for credentials, etc.

Bottom line is that it is intended to bring our scope of practice up to match our training, not about opening new areas.

 

[dawg44]

This looks like people are missing the whole point of the scope of practice issue. It just doesn't work this way. It's not about deciding what our scope of practice ought to be and then making it so. It's about bringing the scope up practice up to the level of our current training.

As it is, there are states where podiatrists cannot do things that they trained on and are competant at simply because of the scope of practice in that state. This should be changed.

ESSENTIALLY ALL MEDICAL SPECIALTIES HAVE A LIMITED SCOPE OF PRACTICE. The orthopod is not about to perform open heart surgery, not trained for it. The family practicioner is not going to do a tibial nail, not trained for it. You can come up with your own examples. What you are allowed to do is based on what you are trained to do, and your local hospital (community) etc with do this through a number of means. However, all of the above practitioner's can write prescriptions for a cold medicine, or give their medical advice about a big cut on your arm. Legally those things are out of scope of practice for a DPM, but would be well within the bounds of our training. The idea behind an "unlimited" scope of practice isn't that DPMs will suddenly be doing knee scopes (not trained or credentialled for it), but that they can take care of the simple thangs that may not be directly related to the foot and ankle. You would still need your residency training before being able to do surgery, still have to go through the hospital for credentials, etc.

Bottom line is that it is intended to bring our scope of practice up to match our training, not about opening new areas.

Great post

 

[MacGyver]

the majority being MDs and DOs doesn't mean we have to kiss up to them. Just by the nature of what podiatrists do (foot and ankle surgery) we are in direct competition w/ foot&ankle ortho guys. I think we should increase our scope to include the knee. The greater our scope of practice, the more marketable we are.

Wow I had no idea that now the DPMs want to infiltrate MD turf just like every other group out there (NPs, PAs, etc)

While we're at it, why dont we just allow all doctors to do anything they want to do. If you are an IM doc, you can do open heart surgery. If you are a DPM, you can do brain surgery. If you are an NP, you can do lap choles

Lets just open the whole damn thing up and let everybody do whatever the **** they want to do

 

[jonwill]

Wow I had no idea that now the DPMs want to infiltrate MD turf just like every other group out there (NPs, PAs, etc)

While we're at it, why dont we just allow all doctors to do anything they want to do. If you are an IM doc, you can do open heart surgery. If you are a DPM, you can do brain surgery. If you are an NP, you can do lap choles

Lets just open the whole damn thing up and let everybody do whatever the **** they want to do

Agreed. I think it is a bit ridiculous myself. We should stick to what we are the best in the world at: foot and ankle surgery. Every doctor has a scope of practice and every scope needs to end somewhere. The foot/ankle are plenty of work.

 

[IlizaRob]

Wow I had no idea that now the DPMs want to infiltrate MD turf just like every other group out there (NPs, PAs, etc)

While we're at it, why dont we just allow all doctors to do anything they want to do. If you are an IM doc, you can do open heart surgery. If you are a DPM, you can do brain surgery. If you are an NP, you can do lap choles

Lets just open the whole damn thing up and let everybody do whatever the **** they want to do

Ignorant post!

 

[jonwill]

Ignorant post!

Leave the pre-med alone!

 

[kraxup]

I have worked in a very large local hospital for 5 years and have seen how specialized even DO's and MD are. I work in surgery and we have an orthopod that does nothing but ankle and feet, we have ortho that do nothing but hips. We have neuro surgeons that do nothing but crani's, we even have general surgeons that do nothing but appendectomies. So it does not matter how large of a scope DPM's get they will still WANT to be very specialized to the foot and ankle.
If I was to have knee surgery I most definatley would not go to the orthopod that is super specialized in total hips replacememnts. Not saying he could not do it but I want the guy that does the knees all the time.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I have worked in a very large local hospital for 5 years and have seen how specialized even DO's and MD are. I work in surgery and we have an orthopod that does nothing but ankle and feet, we have ortho that do nothing but hips. We have neuro surgeons that do nothing but crani's, we even have general surgeons that do nothing but appendectomies. So it does not matter how large of a scope DPM's get they will still WANT to be very specialized to the foot and ankle.
If I was to have knee surgery I most definatley would not go to the orthopod that is super specialized in total hips replacememnts. Not saying he could not do it but I want the guy that does the knees all the time.

One thing to think about is orthopods that work in the foot and ankle at most have a 1 year and 6 weeks of training. AT MOST!!!! I'm sorry but their is a huge need for more radiologists and gerontologist, why are we wasting MDs and DOs in an area that is better served by pods?

 

[krabmas]

I have worked in a very large local hospital for 5 years and have seen how specialized even DO's and MD are. I work in surgery and we have an orthopod that does nothing but ankle and feet, we have ortho that do nothing but hips. We have neuro surgeons that do nothing but crani's, we even have general surgeons that do nothing but appendectomies. So it does not matter how large of a scope DPM's get they will still WANT to be very specialized to the foot and ankle.
If I was to have knee surgery I most definatley would not go to the orthopod that is super specialized in total hips replacememnts. Not saying he could not do it but I want the guy that does the knees all the time.

In some states the scope is limited to the foot and the bottom half of the ankle. Not even soft tissue in the leg. The muscles in the leg control the bones and joints in the feet. Without a TAL for a patient that is having Charcot reconstruction of the rear or midfoot the surgery will not be successful (most likely).

With out the scope of the leg it makes it very difficult to do skin grafts to cover defects on the foot.

 

[doclm]

In some states the scope is limited to the foot and the bottom half of the ankle. Not even soft tissue in the leg. The muscles in the leg control the bones and joints in the feet. Without a TAL for a patient that is having Charcot reconstruction of the rear or midfoot the surgery will not be successful (most likely).

With out the scope of the leg it makes it very difficult to do skin grafts to cover defects on the foot.

I am trying to think of why leg, at least the lower half is not within the scope of all Podiatrists? Its not like an internal organ (heart, liver, lung) and is no different than the foot.

Who makes these limitations anyway?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The government

 

[doclm]

The government

Is there much DPM force within the government, or is it MD's who make the desicion of what other medical specialties can and cannot do?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Is there much DPM force within the government, or is it MD's who make the desicion of what other medical specialties can and cannot do?

Podiatry has one of the most active political lobbyist in Washington. You will have a chance to donate to PPAC next year and then every year following.

 

[doclm]

Podiatry has no of the most active political lobbyist in Washington. You will have a chance to donate to PPAC next year and then every year following.

Are you saying that there is no active Podiatry lobbyist? What is PPAC?

Thanks

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'm sorry I corrected my typo, PPAC is the Podiatric Political Action Committee.

 

[doclm]

I'm sorry I correct my typo, PPAC is the Podiatric Political Action Committee.

Thanks

 

[krabmas]

Is there much DPM force within the government, or is it MD's who make the desicion of what other medical specialties can and cannot do?

The DPM's lobby thru PPAC but the legislators always talk to the American Medical Association (AMA) or the state sections of the AMA or even the specialty board for the state before completely considering the DPM's bill.

The AMA reps and state medical reps do not always know the DPM's education and just assume that we are tryig to take over.

It is an uphill battle but PPAC continues to climb.

At NYCPM every year students join the lobbyists and DPMs from NY to lobby for our profession in the state of NY. Great experience!

 

[fernj1975]

One thing to think about is orthopods that work in the foot and ankle at most have a 1 year and 6 weeks of training. AT MOST!!!! I'm sorry but their is a huge need for more radiologists and gerontologist, why are we wasting MDs and DOs in an area that is better served by pods?

Hmm that is not the only time they work in the foot and ankle. During the trauma rotations there are tons of Calcaneous fractures and many other complicated foot and ankle cases. Residency for an Orthopod is 5 years, during that time they don't exclude the foot and ankle area. There is even a rotation just on the foot and ankle where a typical resident will be first assistant in a range of 30 to 50 cases along with clinic duties.
Also if the Pods try to increase their scope of practice to the Knee; good luck. You will be swallowed by the Orthopods. Not a good idea.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Hmm that is not the only time they work in the foot and ankle. During the trauma rotations there are tons of Calcaneous fractures and many other complicated foot and ankle cases. Residency for an Orthopod is 5 years, during that time they don't exclude the foot and ankle area. There is even a rotation just on the foot and ankle where a typical resident will be first assistant in a range of 30 to 50 cases along with clinic duties.
Also if the Pods try to increase their scope of practice to the Knee; good luck. You will be swallowed by the Orthopods. Not a good idea.

Hey stud, that information came from Foot and Ankle International which is an orthopedic journal. They were stating that they are under-trained in the area of foot and ankle surgery.

As for 30-50 cases, when pods are done w/ their residency they have on the order of 2000 cases.

Finally, did I say anything about increasing to the knee? Did you read my post, or are you looking to stir the pot? I think you need to work on the reading comprehension skills, bud. I stated that there is a major need for physicians in other areas, so I do not understand why they are still pushing the foot and ankle in orthopedics; it seems unnecessary. I was not insulting any orthopedic physicians, I was stating a fact. I think your bridge is getting lonely troll, better run home and play stupid elsewhere.

 

[fernj1975]

Hey stud, that information came from Foot and Ankle International which is an orthopedic journal. They were stating that they are under-trained in the area of foot and ankle surgery.

As for 30-50 cases, when pods are done w/ their residency they have on the order of 2000 cases.

Finally, did I say anything about increasing to the knee? Did you read my post, or are you looking to stir the pot? I think you need to work on the reading comprehension skills, bud. I stated that there is a major need for physicians in other areas, so I do not understand why they are still pushing the foot and ankle in orthopedics; it seems unnecessary. I was not insulting any orthopedic physicians, I was stating a fact. I think your bridge is getting lonely troll, better run home and play stupid elsewhere.

Ok buddy, now you are trying to be funny. As far as my reading comprehension skills, I got a 12 or my VS portion of the MCAT. Obviously you did perform so hot since you are in Podiatry school which has a much lower MCAT score average. You are being defensive and that is your problem. I was just pointing out an obvious flaw in your logic. You made it sound like an Orthopod only got training during his 1 year fellowship. Also how many of those cases that you are involved actually are surgical cases (no clipping toe nails here.)
If you want to make this into a flaming war so be it, I didn't start it. I only made a point about the exposure of an Orthopod to the Foot and Ankle. As far as the study you are quoting from, it has many limitations. This exposure is program dependent. Not all Ortho programs offer the same exposure to lets say sports, spine, oncology and spine. There are programs out there that offer an immense exposure to the foot and ankle. Those residents graduating from these programs Don’t feel the need to do a fellowship since they are so expertly trained. Fire away.

 

[Podman]

Ok buddy, now you are trying to be funny. As far as my reading comprehension skills, I got a 12 or my VS portion of the MCAT. Obviously you did perform so hot since you are in Podiatry school which has a much lower MCAT score average.

hey i scored a 10 in my verbal reasoning section - but i'm just a "podiatry" student i guess - sorry i must've slipped through...

listen, you're more than welcome to debate and discuss your point of view but no need to be condescending.

Regarding the ortho training, of course it is extensive - 4 years of medical school + 5 years of residency + fellowship option speaks for itself but at the same time you cannot overlook the clinical training of a podiatric surgeon during a 3 year residency program - alot of our programs are very extensive and some programs are affiliated with some of the best medical centers in the nation i.e. stanford and yale. I hope I'm not coming off as defensive but our profession has endured alot of recent changes over the past decade to improve the quality of our training (surgical and conservative) and believe it or not but this has been recognized by the medical community including the orthopaedic surgeons (i.e. Dr. Pinzur).

At any case, good luck to you in your future endeavours...

 

[Podman]

Also if the Pods try to increase their scope of practice to the Knee; good luck. You will be swallowed by the Orthopods. Not a good idea.

I don't see where you got the notion that pods want to practice on the knee - not only is this unethical but it is also illegal - however, i should explain that the idea of an "expanded" scope is to allow the podiatric surgeon to do soft-tissue workup if they are working on a reconstructive foot surgery - some states like the state of Georgia allow us to do workup upto the hip - this doesn't mean that you're going to see a podiatrist doing hip replacements. We are very aware of our scope of practice (foot and ankle) and many of us (i'm not qualified to say "all of us") CHOSE to specialize with that scope.

 

[fernj1975]

hey i scored a 10 in my verbal reasoning section - but i'm just a "podiatry" student i guess - sorry i must've slipped through...

listen, you're more than welcome to debate and discuss your point of view but no need to be condescending.

Regarding the ortho training, of course it is extensive - 4 years of medical school + 5 years of residency + fellowship option speaks for itself but at the same time you cannot overlook the clinical training of a podiatric surgeon during a 3 year residency program - alot of our programs are very extensive and some programs are affiliated with some of the best medical centers in the nation i.e. stanford and yale. I hope I'm not coming off as defensive but our profession has endured alot of recent changes over the past decade to improve the quality of our training (surgical and conservative) and believe it or not but this has been recognized by the medical community including the orthopaedic surgeons (i.e. Dr. Pinzur).

At any case, good luck to you in your future endeavours...

Great post! Look I was not trying to inflame anybody on this thread. I just felt the need to discuss the matter at hand honestly. Mr Feelgood replied in a very inmmature manner, calling me a troll. Just because I don't agree with your point of view doesn't make me a troll. I've been a member of SDN since undegrad (Had a different name) and is very fond of it's members but I will not let someone on here try to belittle me with petty comments.

I have some insight into your point, I have a close family member who is a Pod. He is very good at what he does and I fully respect him and the training/education he received at his institution (in the North East.) My point was not to have a tunnel vision and inaccurately state that Orthopods have inferior training compared to Podiatrist when it comes to the Foot and Ankle. That is a simpleton mindset and rather foolish. There are many variables involved. It's not quantity but the quality of the surgical exposure. Retracting and being first assistant are not equivalent. Now I’m not saying the cases Pods do are not of high quality but simply stating the number of cases does not give a complete picture.If anyone here can show me a credible article stating Pods are superior to Orthopods feel free to post it and I will gladly recant my comments. Sorry for sounding condescending but his post was truly offensive and reprehensible. Oh by the way great VS score!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Mr Feelgood replied in a very inmmature manner, calling me a troll. Just because I don't agree with your point of view doesn't make me a troll.

You are a troll. You are not a podiatry student or a podiatrists. From what your bio says you are a physics teacher.

My point was not to have a tunnel vision and inaccurately state that Orthopods have inferior training compared to Podiatrist when it comes to the Foot and Ankle.

They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.

 

[IlizaRob]

You are a troll. You are not a podiatry student or a podiatrists. From what your bio says you are a physics teacher.



They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.

Chill out guys.

 

[Podman]

Great post! Look I was not trying to inflame anybody on this thread. I just felt the need to discuss the matter at hand honestly. Mr Feelgood replied in a very inmmature manner, calling me a troll. Just because I don't agree with your point of view doesn't make me a troll. I've been a member of SDN since undegrad (Had a different name) and is very fond of it's members but I will not let someone on here try to belittle me with petty comments.

I have some insight into your point, I have a close family member who is a Pod. He is very good at what he does and I fully respect him and the training/education he received at his institution (in the North East.) My point was not to have a tunnel vision and inaccurately state that Orthopods have inferior training compared to Podiatrist when it comes to the Foot and Ankle. That is a simpleton mindset and rather foolish. There are many variables involved. It's not quantity but the quality of the surgical exposure. Retracting and being first assistant are not equivalent. Now I’m not saying the cases Pods do are not of high quality but simply stating the number of cases does not give a complete picture.If anyone here can show me a credible article stating Pods are superior to Orthopods feel free to post it and I will gladly recant my comments. Sorry for sounding condescending but his post was truly offensive and reprehensible. Oh by the way great VS score!

thank you! I also agree with you that it is foolish to undermine the training of an orthopod. Many of our podiatric surgical residency graduates get exposed to training by an orthopoedic surgeon. As a matter of fact, we need highly trained foot and ankle orthopods as much as we do need podiatrists and podiatric surgeons simply because our specialty (podiatry) is still very small. While the quantity of our procedures sound impressive, many of our programs have the quality component as well - this makes our training very extensive - in addition, we are required to have board eligibility and certification by the American board of podiatric surgery (ABPS) and the American College of Foot and Ankle Sugeons (ACFAS) - without board eligibility, we cannot perform all rear-foot + reconstructive surgery procedures. My point here is that by the time a podiatric surgeon operates on a patient, he/she is very qualified and more than ready to do so. As per our training versus the ortho foot and ankle - i can't see any viable scientific literature that would support this claim neither can i find literature proving otherwise - what we can agree upon is that our training is recognized by the ortho medical community as it is becoming more and more common to see our residents training with ortho residents and in some cases, podiatric surgeons training ortho residents (this i read from the Journal of Foot and ankle surgery).

 

[fernj1975]

They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.[/QUOTE]

Ok waterboy, lets get it on. You should view the The Conversion Seinfeld episode

Elaine: Jerry, the man is a doctor.
Jerry: Doctor? He’s a podiatrist.
Elaine: It’s the same thing.
Jerry: Anyone can get into podiatry school. *George* got into podiatry
school.
Elaine: Really?

First of all, I was a physics teacher for 2 years at a pretty prestigious high school. I was what they called a New York Fellow. Look it up smart ass, I started Medical School with NO debt and I’m 30 years old.
Secondly, I’m an Orthopeadic resident, that is right your future boss loser. I know the article you are talking about pod Feelgood. You will never be an MD or DO, and I don’t believe you had an option to attend a D.O school. If you had the choice of being a Foot and Ankle fellowship trained orthopod or a Podiatrist which one will you choose? Yea tell me that you would choose to be a Pod and give up an extra 200,000 grand and lose the responsibility of cutting and polishing nails. Then you are more of a simpleton that I had previously imagined.
You are a malignant goofball who feels compelled to act out on his childish impulses. You should channel your frustration and energy elsewhere for the good of humanity. I’m sure someone needs their nails cut in some retirement home in Florida. That is too bad; I was having a cordial discussion with your colleague who doesn’t have any of your short comings.
Obviously you have poor comprehension and reading skills. I just explained to you pod Feelgood that the exposure is program dependent. Oh by the way I got a bridge in New York to sell Mr. could have been a D.O. but instead chose otherwise.

 

[fernj1975]

Chill out guys.

I will refrain from replying to Mr. Feelgood since he seems to be out of control. And Podman I look forward to working with Pods of the same ilk as you.

 

[capo]

They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.

Ok waterboy, lets get it on. You should view the The Conversion Seinfeld episode

Elaine: Jerry, the man is a doctor.
Jerry: Doctor? He’s a podiatrist.
Elaine: It’s the same thing.
Jerry: Anyone can get into podiatry school. *George* got into podiatry
school.
Elaine: Really?

First of all, I was a physics teacher for 2 years at a pretty prestigious high school. I was what they called a New York Fellow. Look it up smart ass, I started Medical School with NO debt and I’m 30 years old.
Secondly, I’m an Orthopeadic resident, that is right your future boss loser. I know the article you are talking about pod Feelgood. You will never be an MD or DO, and I don’t believe you had an option to attend a D.O school. If you had the choice of being a Foot and Ankle fellowship trained orthopod or a Podiatrist which one will you choose? Yea tell me that you would choose to be a Pod and give up an extra 200,000 grand and lose the responsibility of cutting and polishing nails. Then you are more of a simpleton that I had previously imagined.
You are a malignant goofball who feels compelled to act out on his childish impulses. You should channel your frustration and energy elsewhere for the good of humanity. I’m sure someone needs their nails cut in some retirement home in Florida. That is too bad; I was having a cordial discussion with your colleague who doesn’t have any of your short comings.
Obviously you have poor comprehension and reading skills. I just explained to you pod Feelgood that the exposure is program dependent. Oh by the way I got a bridge in New York to sell Mr. could have been a D.O. but instead chose otherwise.[/QUOTE]





Hey guy, if you're such a hot-shot ortho surgeon, why do you feel the need to belittle other healthcare professionals? You're tone is beyond demeaning and condescending. Are you for real? You have the emotional maturity of a toddler, as evident from your outbursts on here in your post. What's up with that?

Would your attendings think anything highly of you, if they viewed this kind of nonsensical argumentative posting? Wow, and you don't think you're a tad bit disgraceful to the allopathic profession or -- ANY profession for that matter, even a sanitation engineer?

Did you treat your students this way and therefore were forced to resign as a teacher? You're in no way suited toward any caring and/or 'helping' profession such as teaching, or God forbid, medicine with this attitude and childish behavior. Show a bit of class if you are in fact, blessed and fortunate enough, to be a physician in the first place.

 

[fernj1975]

How would you describe Mr. Feelgood's replies? I'm not trying to belittle the Pod profession but the replies by Mr. Feelgood were uncalled for. I didn't mean to offend any of you guys. This will be my last post.

 

[IlizaRob]

This is getting rediculous.

 

[capo]

How would you describe Mr. Feelgood's replies? I'm not trying to belittle the Pod profession but the replies by Mr. Feelgood were uncalled for. I didn't mean to offend any of you guys. This will be my last post.

You don't need to divert from YOUR behavior. This isn't a psych eval but rather an alert to your outlandish and unprofessional remarks. Why in hell are you on a pod forum to begin with? If you come on here talking high and mighty, doesn't a 'reasonable' person expect people to become defensive if you attempt to humilate them for no reason?

Are you insecure in other areas and thus, must downgrade others to feel better? I still don't think I'd ever refer a patient to you, from what you displayed on here. The is NO good reason to act in this manner irregardless of the post that provoked you to retaliate, as you will probably 'claim' was the case.

 

[capo]

This is getting rediculous.

Agreed. It's BEYOND ridiculous. I'm done posting for today as well.

 

[ProdPod]

They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.

Ok waterboy, lets get it on. You should view the The Conversion Seinfeld episode

Elaine: Jerry, the man is a doctor.
Jerry: Doctor? He’s a podiatrist.
Elaine: It’s the same thing.
Jerry: Anyone can get into podiatry school. *George* got into podiatry
school.
Elaine: Really?

First of all, I was a physics teacher for 2 years at a pretty prestigious high school. I was what they called a New York Fellow. Look it up smart ass, I started Medical School with NO debt and I’m 30 years old.
Secondly, I’m an Orthopeadic resident, that is right your future boss loser. I know the article you are talking about pod Feelgood. You will never be an MD or DO, and I don’t believe you had an option to attend a D.O school. If you had the choice of being a Foot and Ankle fellowship trained orthopod or a Podiatrist which one will you choose? Yea tell me that you would choose to be a Pod and give up an extra 200,000 grand and lose the responsibility of cutting and polishing nails. Then you are more of a simpleton that I had previously imagined.
You are a malignant goofball who feels compelled to act out on his childish impulses. You should channel your frustration and energy elsewhere for the good of humanity. I’m sure someone needs their nails cut in some retirement home in Florida. That is too bad; I was having a cordial discussion with your colleague who doesn’t have any of your short comings.
Obviously you have poor comprehension and reading skills. I just explained to you pod Feelgood that the exposure is program dependent. Oh by the way I got a bridge in New York to sell Mr. could have been a D.O. but instead chose otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Your a doosh bag!

 

[ProdPod]

They do have infereior training when it comes to foot and ankle surgery. That is straight from the mouth of orthopds. If you'd like I'll email you the article. Do they have more extensive training in other areas? YES.

As for my score, you look like an ass again. Pod by choice not by a lack of MCAT score. Go back to your Boyle's Law. Leave us lowly pods alone. We are scared of your 12 on the VR. Funny that you are a 31 year old loser who posts on a forum to look important.

Ok waterboy, lets get it on. You should view the The Conversion Seinfeld episode

Elaine: Jerry, the man is a doctor.
Jerry: Doctor? He’s a podiatrist.
Elaine: It’s the same thing.
Jerry: Anyone can get into podiatry school. *George* got into podiatry
school.
Elaine: Really?

First of all, I was a physics teacher for 2 years at a pretty prestigious high school. I was what they called a New York Fellow. Look it up smart ass, I started Medical School with NO debt and I’m 30 years old.
Secondly, I’m an Orthopeadic resident, that is right your future boss loser. I know the article you are talking about pod Feelgood. You will never be an MD or DO, and I don’t believe you had an option to attend a D.O school. If you had the choice of being a Foot and Ankle fellowship trained orthopod or a Podiatrist which one will you choose? Yea tell me that you would choose to be a Pod and give up an extra 200,000 grand and lose the responsibility of cutting and polishing nails. Then you are more of a simpleton that I had previously imagined.
You are a malignant goofball who feels compelled to act out on his childish impulses. You should channel your frustration and energy elsewhere for the good of humanity. I’m sure someone needs their nails cut in some retirement home in Florida. That is too bad; I was having a cordial discussion with your colleague who doesn’t have any of your short comings.
Obviously you have poor comprehension and reading skills. I just explained to you pod Feelgood that the exposure is program dependent. Oh by the way I got a bridge in New York to sell Mr. could have been a D.O. but instead chose otherwise.[/QUOTE]

You sound like the biggest doosh bag!

 

[kraxup]

my uncle is a podiatrist and he makes around 450,000 per year owning a clinic. And I have worked in surgery for almost 5 years at a large hospital and know that most orthopods make that or more. And why would someone that only wants to work of ankle and feet become a orthopedic surgeon nad have to do twice the schooling. Not twice the schoolong on the ankle and foot but shoulder surgery that they will NEVER use. Yes we have an orthopod in surgery that in the last 5 years he has done nothing but ankle and feet.

 

[jonwill]

Retracting and being first assistant are not equivalent. Now I’m not saying the cases Pods do are not of high quality but simply stating the number of cases does not give a complete picture.

Just a few points:
-Podiatric surgical residents log thousands of "C" cases which usually means they do the entire procedure skin-to-skin.
-It is no secret that a podiatrist's surgical training is far superior to a general orthopod and even a foot & ankle orthopod. However, being in NY (horrible podiatric practice laws), you probably haven't had much exposure to a podiatric surgeons true capabilities.
-If you are seeing a DPM who is a fellow of the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons (board certified by the ABPS), than you can rest assured that the foot and ankle surgeon has completed rigorous training and passed oral and written examinations, including submission of cases for review. Currently the ABPS is the only certification for foot and ankle surgeons. Orthos have no board for foot and ankle.
-I have great respect for orthopods. All of my rotations this next year are in major hospitals where podiatry is in the ortho department. We work well together and between the two of us, can provide excellent orthopedic care. As orthopods are the true experts in shoulder, spine, knee, etc, podiatrists are the experts of the foot and ankle. Good luck to you.

 

[jonwill]

"An article published in the July 2003 issue of "Foot and Ankle International," the clinical journal of the American Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Society, reveals that foot and ankle residency training among orthopaedic residents is 'vague' and does not 'require experience or proficiency in this discipline.'"

"Lead author of the article, Michael S. Pinzur, MD, of the Department of Orthopaedic Surgery and Rehabilitation at Loyola University Medical Center, utilized a survey form sent to the chairs of 148 accredited residency programs in orthopedic surgery in the United States. The response rate was 100%."

"Results showed that 80 programs (54.1 percent) had just one faculty member, while 21 programs (14.2 percent) had no faculty member with a dedicated interest in foot and ankle orthopedics. Fifteen programs (10.1%) did not have a committed faculty member, nor did their residents have a clinical rotation dedicated to foot and ankle care."

"Ninety-six percent of the programs had a dedicated clinical foot and ankle experience, while 33 assigned their residents to clinical foot and ankle rotations at multiple times during their training. Overall, the total duration of their foot and ankle clinical training ranged from as little as 6 weeks, to as much as 24 weeks, out of a possible 260 weeks of residency training."

"The authors state the survey results show the disparity of commitment to foot and ankle orthopaedics in American graduate medical education in orthopaedic surgery. The article concludes by stating, 'While most programs are in compliance with the guidelines published by the Accreditation Council for Graduate medical Education, many programs offer virtually no exposure to this important discipline.'"

"In stark contrast is the training of podiatrists," said APMA President LLoyd S. Smith, DPM. 'Our students currently receive six to seven years of formalized training in the foot, ankle and related structures during their educational experiences. Their initial years are of a general nature quite similar to medical school students. Many of those classes are now held jointly at health science centers where the medical and podiatry students are integrated into the same classrooms.'"

"During the second and third years, the future podiatrists begin to focus on the lower extremity issues. Ultimately the fourth year in school and the subsequent years as a resident allow the podiatrist to receive vastly more training and experience in lower extremity pathology than any other health care professional in the United States."