The single most important advice I offer you younglings

[osprey099]

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I was a newly minted heme-onc attending at 31 years old. I have been on SDN since I graduated high school in 2010. The most important advice for anyone thinking about becoming a doctor is not taking any unnecessary gap years. Finish everything as soon as possible. Every unnecessary year you spend is a lost year of peak attending income, which for some can be in the 7 figure range.

- Go to 6yr or 7yr combined BS/MD programs straight out of high school if you can. You save 1-2 years compared to the traditional 4+4 students.
- Don't take gap year(s) between college and med school if you don't have to. Don't do extra years just to boost your application so you can get into a more "prestigious" school
- Don't take gap year(s) in medical school if you don't have to.
- Don't drink the academic cool aid and do an administrative chief resident year. The hospital is just abusing you as a glorified secretary.

Time is more important than anything. Go through the motions as quick as possible.

 

[RunnerDad]

Counterpoint: What's the rush? These younglings are going to live to be 90+. And since most users on this forum are already in college or beyond, it's a little late to unring the bell in favor of a BS/MD program, especially when most high schoolers don't have a clue what they want to do for a career. Sure, it's good for some, but probably not for most. Also, some people are not necessarily ready for med school at the time they graduate from college, and benefit from getting some more intensive experience in clinical work during a gap year so that they have a better idea what they're getting into. I'm all for not wasting time, don't get me wrong, but I'm struggling to see any one-size-fits-all path for premeds to shoot for.

 

[LizzyM]

Money isn't everything. Why rush through the process chasing the big paycheck only to find that money, above a figure that is well below the starting salary of any attending physician, does not buy happiness.

Strive for work/life balance from the start. You will grown in ways you didn't know were possible, have opportunities to engage with others to build your social and professional networks, and become a whole person rather than a cog in the medical care machine.

 

[karaya]

My mug of choice while reading the OP as a 29 y.o. M1

 

[eigen]

"A year of lost attending income" makes a lot of assumptions about how long you will practice / when you retire.

It's worth it to consider as part of your planning, but I see more students fail because they're rushing than succeed. They tend to be narrower in their development, they have less life skill, and they struggle to put together a compelling narrative in their applications.

Given that the average age of matriculation is increasingly steadily (close to 27) at one of the med schools most of my students apply to, many that rush through undergrad report back to me that they feel really out of place relative to their peers when they get there.

 

[osprey099]

Counterpoint: What's the rush? These younglings are going to live to be 90+. And since most users on this forum are already in college or beyond, it's a little late to unring the bell in favor of a BS/MD program, especially when most high schoolers don't have a clue what they want to do for a career. Sure, it's good for some, but probably not for most. Also, some people are not necessarily ready for med school at the time they graduate from college, and benefit from getting some more intensive experience in clinical work during a gap year so that they have a better idea what they're getting into. I'm all for not wasting time, don't get me wrong, but I'm struggling to see any one-size-fits-all path for premeds to shoot for.

Certainly it is not one size fits all. There are some people who didn't know they wanted to be a doctor until after college. These folks have to go back and do post-back before applying.

I'm basically saying once you have your mind set on becoming a doctor, don't waste any years/time. Go through everything as fast as you can. As an attending, I can say that pretty much nothing in college or medical school has helped. Residency and fellowship is where you basically learn to be a doctor.

 

[LunaOri]

I was a newly minted heme-onc attending at 31 years old. I have been on SDN since I graduated high school in 2010. The most important advice for anyone thinking about becoming a doctor is not taking any unnecessary gap years. Finish everything as soon as possible. Every unnecessary year you spend is a lost year of peak attending income, which for some can be in the 7 figure range.

- Go to 6yr or 7yr combined BS/MD programs straight out of high school if you can. You save 1-2 years compared to the traditional 4+4 students.
- Don't take gap year(s) between college and med school if you don't have to. Don't do extra years just to boost your application so you can get into a more "prestigious" school
- Don't take gap year(s) in medical school if you don't have to.
- Don't drink the academic cool aid and do an administrative chief resident year. The hospital is just abusing you as a glorified secretary.

Time is more important than anything. Go through the motions as quick as possible.

You’re joking, right???

 

[osprey099]

To add to this: 6/7 year BS/MD programs often take away from the college experience. Those are critical years for gaining maturity, forming friendships, potentially finding a lifelong partner, and studying interests that are outside the field of medicine.

Taking gap years between college and med school is nearly a necessity now to gain admission anywhere, let alone a more prestigious school. Taking extra years to boost your application could also make a substantial difference in your financial aid options, as more prestigious schools tend to offer more aid. Not having to worry about $400,000 of loans at 8%+ interest rates is a dream.

The difference between the combined BS/MD program and traditional 4+4 is only 1 or 2 years. Also, the combined students are spending all the college summers on campus taking additional classes to graduate sooner since the medical school part usually remains 4 years. Plenty of time for all of the personal growth you mentioned.

There are only a handful of schools that offer free or significantly reduced tuition. Your second paragraph works not apply to the vast majority of premeds.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am taking my time with this thread listening to everyone's perspective.

First off, I think that everyone would love a straight-line career and life path. If there are ways to accelerate one's journey to adulthood (aka "Big Bang Theory"/"Young Sheldon"), many would think it ideal ("I Just Can't Wait to Be King" from "The Lion King"). It's great to have your life pre-determined as if you were Prince William as next-in-line. (We can discuss the Spares later.)

But not every child has this type of support. Not every child should be on an accelerated track to adulthood, and not every child enters it with such career ambition. Thousands/millions? of children are driven by their parents to be star athletes to make it into lucrative professional sports, even though the odds of being the next Serena Williams or Lebron James are practically one dozen in a generation. Whether self-driven or externally driven, children in such mindsets need a lot of mental health support and understanding if these pursuits lose their appeal (Students are growing up without a childhood).

There is greater recognition that guaranteed admission tracks must include more diverse students from lower SES or with limited community resources. For social mobility purposes, those chosen and their communities greatly benefit if the opportunity is properly designed and supported. Read

Applying Earlier? Health Professions Admissions through Early Assurance | SDN

How can applicants avoid the stress of applying to medical school? Well, a few of their incoming classmates may have already found a different path to

www.studentdoctor.net

But as we pointed out, a successful medical career requires broad life experiences to match or adjust to patients' or communities' experiences and attitudes toward their societies and lives. We need people who can relate to others, not just at a high-society, academic-speak level. We also need practitioners who can adjust to different employment climates, needs, or opportunities to adjust to workplace burnout and mental stress. And we aren't addressing more personal issues including family, community identity, and self-esteem.

TL/DR: The wise words from philosopher Ferris Bueller: Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

 

[eigen]

Personal growth does not really occur during summer classes on a campus. If anything, removing that opportunity for internships and other experiences hinders growth even *more*. 2 years is quite literally half the college experience.

Tulane's accelerated program requires students take a year doing service work (Americorps, usually) largely for this reason. They found that otherwise students were not prepared to work with patients in medical school, and lacked some of the life experience that made them better physicians. Not sure if they're still doing it, but they published on it a few years ago. The Tulane accelerated physician training program (TAP-TP): A novel combination of scholarship and service - PubMed

 

[cj_cregg]

My perspective as someone in her first year of attendinghood, also at 31 years old, who went straight through with no gap years/extra years other than my fellowship - I often wish I had done a gap year or two. I wish I would have studied abroad during college even if it meant an extra semester, done Americorps or an MPH or something like that, for the reasons others have listed above.

I will also add, as someone who reviews medical school applications - it is not as easy as it was back in our day to get into medical school without a gap year. It is tougher and tougher to get the extracurricular experiences needed to build a strong medical school application and do well with grades/MCAT in 3 years. The students applying after junior year often have weaker ECs and frankly weaker essays/LORs (I think due to less maturity/life experience) as well.

 

[RunnerDad]

I'm basically saying once you have your mind set on becoming a doctor, don't waste any years/time. Go through everything as fast as you can. As an attending, I can say that pretty much nothing in college or medical school has helped. Residency and fellowship is where you basically learn to be a doctor.

When my kid started his freshman year in college, he was resigned to becoming a car mechanic. He lacked confidence and hadn't had an opportunity to regain a love of learning. He floundered in community college, separated from family, disengaged with virtual learning. When he found a new environment at a four-year institution, he grew. A lot. He is not the same person he was four years ago. And to say that college didn't help him gain the potential to become a doctor just isn't true, in his experience. I'm willing to bet the percentage of teenagers who have an informed mind set on becoming a doctor is very small. And if students take this path based on something they think they're supposed to do, because their parents want them to or they've had a romanticized idea of what being a doctor is about, it is 100% not a waste of time for them to pause, reflect, gain more perspective, and be deliberate and thoughtful. Again, not saying there aren't people who would do fine with an accelerated path, but I think it's a pretty small minority.

 

[Mother Teresa]

Damn, didn't know my dad was on SDN too

 

[RunnerDad]

Damn, didn't know my dad was on SDN too

I have only respect and best wishes for everyone applying, including my own (who doesn't do SDN or Reddit). Everyone working this hard deserves to get into med school.

 

[pablo213]

I was a newly minted heme-onc attending at 31 years old. I have been on SDN since I graduated high school in 2010. The most important advice for anyone thinking about becoming a doctor is not taking any unnecessary gap years. Finish everything as soon as possible. Every unnecessary year you spend is a lost year of peak attending income, which for some can be in the 7 figure range.

- Go to 6yr or 7yr combined BS/MD programs straight out of high school if you can. You save 1-2 years compared to the traditional 4+4 students.
- Don't take gap year(s) between college and med school if you don't have to. Don't do extra years just to boost your application so you can get into a more "prestigious" school
- Don't take gap year(s) in medical school if you don't have to.
- Don't drink the academic cool aid and do an administrative chief resident year. The hospital is just abusing you as a glorified secretary.

Time is more important than anything. Go through the motions as quick as possible.

I largely agree with your viewpoint on a personal level, but I think others have made good points about gap years too. I've been told to take time off to smell the roses, but I don't really have other goals that i think would be worth a year off to do and I think that's OK. You shouldn't take gap years just because a lot of people are doing so or out of FOMO. On the other hand, if people have serious goals they would like to do before entering medical school, if they're undecided about medicine or have a weaker app, gap years can be a wonderful thing. I also think they can be pretty detrimental if you don't use that time wisely (you would likely be expected to have stronger ECs to make up for the gap year, in addition to the opportunity cost of delaying a year of med school).

 

[hopefulraddaddypls]

I was a newly minted heme-onc attending at 31 years old. I have been on SDN since I graduated high school in 2010. The most important advice for anyone thinking about becoming a doctor is not taking any unnecessary gap years. Finish everything as soon as possible. Every unnecessary year you spend is a lost year of peak attending income, which for some can be in the 7 figure range.

- Go to 6yr or 7yr combined BS/MD programs straight out of high school if you can. You save 1-2 years compared to the traditional 4+4 students.
- Don't take gap year(s) between college and med school if you don't have to. Don't do extra years just to boost your application so you can get into a more "prestigious" school
- Don't take gap year(s) in medical school if you don't have to.
- Don't drink the academic cool aid and do an administrative chief resident year. The hospital is just abusing you as a glorified secretary.

Time is more important than anything. Go through the motions as quick as possible.

This is facts. So much denial here. Medicine is a field experiencing negative growth, reimbursements are cut yearly while inflation sky rockets. I find it hilarious seeing premeds tripping over themselves trying to get in. You should try to get in and out as quickly as you can. SDN is full of older idealistic physicians who lived in the good times, premeds, listen to this osprey guy

 

[hopefulraddaddypls]

I largely agree with your viewpoint on a personal level, but I think others have made good points about gap years too. I've been told to take time off to smell the roses, but I don't really have other goals that i think would be worth a year off to do and I think that's OK. You shouldn't take gap years just because a lot of people are doing so or out of FOMO. On the other hand, if people have serious goals they would like to do before entering medical school, if they're undecided about medicine or have a weaker app, gap years can be a wonderful thing. I also think they can be pretty detrimental if you don't use that time wisely (you would likely be expected to have stronger ECs to make up for the gap year, in addition to the opportunity cost of delaying a year of med school).

Why not get in and out asap with your training and have more time to enjoy the roses as an attending? Taking gap years is largely a waste of time

 

[LunaOri]

Why not get in and out asap with your training and have more time to enjoy the roses as an attending? Taking gap years is largely a waste of time

Are you a physician or still a premed?

 

[hopefulraddaddypls]

Are you a physician or still a premed?

Based on their post history, they mentioned being an M4 applying to Radiology last November, so they're just starting Residency.

intern going into radiology, there is a LOT of wasted time in medical training, with tuition rising (and interest rates being high right now) along with reimbursements in question, the least amount of time in training possible, while still being competent, should be the goal

 

[pablo213]

Why not get in and out asap with your training and have more time to enjoy the roses as an attending? Taking gap years is largely a waste of time

That's what I'm doing tbh. I mentioned pursuing serious goals and being undecided as other reasons to take gap years because I think they would cause too much resentment for medicine and hinder progress during med school and beyond if one had to deal with that.

 

[sarcasmrules]

You're assuming becoming a doctor is the only way to make good money. Considering I made enough money from crypto to graduate medical school debt free, I'm glad I didn't get in right away. I've been studying crypto non-stop since 2021 and I would not have had the time if I had gotten in.

 

[deleted929944]

The single most important advice I offer​

Some of you posters is to not generalize. Don't put your opinions in absolute terms.

 

[pablo213]

You're assuming becoming a doctor is the only way to make good money. Considering I made enough money from crypto to graduate medical school debt free, I'm glad I didn't get in right away. I've been studying crypto non-stop since 2021 and I would not have had the time if I had gotten in.

I'm bullish on XRP

 

[osprey099]

You're assuming becoming a doctor is the only way to make good money. Considering I made enough money from crypto to graduate medical school debt free, I'm glad I didn't get in right away. I've been studying crypto non-stop since 2021 and I would not have had the time if I had gotten in.

I don't know how you come up with that conclusion. All I am saying is if you are set on becoming a physician, you should get through the steps and go through the motions as fast as possible. As someone who has made it to the other side, I can tell you the past 10+ years in school/training have been a challenging and stressful grind, all the while being severely underpaid and taking on exorbitant student loan debt.

 

[sarcasmrules]

I don't know how you come up with that conclusion. All I am saying is if you are set on becoming a physician, you should get through the steps and go through the motions as fast as possible. As someone who has made it to the other side, I can tell you the past 10+ years in school/training have been a challenging and stressful grind, all the while being severely underpaid and taking on exorbitant student loan debt.

Every unnecessary year you spend is a lost year of peak attending income, which for some can be in the 7 figure range.

You're saying we need to become physicians ASAP to make that physician salary which carries the heavy implication you think the only way to make good money is to get that attending salary.

Considering I've almost made $1 million in realized gains from crypto this past year and should be set to make low to mid 8 figures in the bull run next year, I am happy to take my gaps.

 

[osprey099]

My perspective as someone in her first year of attendinghood, also at 31 years old, who went straight through with no gap years/extra years other than my fellowship - I often wish I had done a gap year or two. I wish I would have studied abroad during college even if it meant an extra semester, done Americorps or an MPH or something like that, for the reasons others have listed above.

I will also add, as someone who reviews medical school applications - it is not as easy as it was back in our day to get into medical school without a gap year. It is tougher and tougher to get the extracurricular experiences needed to build a strong medical school application and do well with grades/MCAT in 3 years. The students applying after junior year often have weaker ECs and frankly weaker essays/LORs (I think due to less maturity/life experience) as well.

The opportunity cost of that extra gap year or MPH is somewhere in the 500k+ range, taking into account a year of lost attending peak income, a year of capitalized student loan interest accrual, a delayed year of income investment, and a year of extra costs/tuition. Would that have been worth it for you? Perhaps. But for myself and for the vast majority of premeds (in my opinion), it is not worth it.

It wasn't easy getting into medical school back in "our day" either. I do agree it is tougher now solely because there's increasing competition based on the fact that more and more applicants apply every year. But I don't agree with your last sentence. Those who are driven and motivated know exactly what to do before they even step foot onto a college campus. There is plenty of time in the 3 years of college to accrue all of the hours and "experiences" needed to be a competitive applicant.

 

[osprey099]

You're saying we need to become physicians ASAP to make that physician salary which carries the heavy implication you think the only way to make good money is to get that attending salary.

The only way to make good money in medicine is to get to that attending salary ASAP. Of course there are other ways to make better money such as going into tech or investment banking..

 

[sarcasmrules]

The only way to make good money in medicine is to get to that attending salary ASAP. Of course there are other ways to make better money such as going into tech or investment banking..

You're contradicting yourself....

 

[osprey099]

You're saying we need to become physicians ASAP to make that physician salary which carries the heavy implication you think the only way to make good money is to get that attending salary.

Considering I've almost made $1 million in realized gains from crypto this past year and should be set to make low to mid 8 figures in the bull run next year, I am happy to take my gaps.

Your personal example doesn't connect with what I'm trying to say. What I'm getting from your statement is that you invested in crypto and made a lot of money because of your gap year. Would you not have invested in crypto if you didn't take a gap year and were in medical school?

If I had thrown my meager resident/fellow savings in Nvidia 5 years ago, I can retire before even becoming an attending. But that would just mean I got extremely lucky. It would have nothing to do with the fact that attending income is the only way to secure a high and stable salary in medicine.

 

[sarcasmrules]

Your personal example doesn't connect with what I'm trying to say. What I'm getting from your statement is that you invested in crypto and made a lot of money because of your gap year. Would you not have invested in crypto if you didn't take a gap year and were in medical school?

If I had thrown my meager resident/fellow savings in Nvidia 5 years ago, I can retire before even becoming an attending. But that would just mean I got extremely lucky. It would have nothing to do with the fact that attending income is the only way to secure a high and stable salary in medicine.

If I was in medical school, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn all the things I do about crypto because I'm the type to obsess over things that interest me until I know every minute detail about them. For example, the reason I know crypto will moon next year is because of the Bitcoin halving event. Every 4 years, there's an event called Bitcoin Halving, which causes the reward for mining a Bitcoin block to be halved. This is why Bitcoin and crypto moons every 4 years. When the halving event occurs, the supply-demand equilibrium is disrupted in a way that favors crypto to spike. Considering the recent approval for Bitcoin ETF, demand is going to be higher than ever and the last bitcoin halving took place in April this year. The bull market has about a 7 month lag before the bull run. That's why I know the next bull run will happen late this year.

So no, I wouldn't have known all this if I had to focus on medical school.

Also, the method I took to make almost $1 million was using a high risk, high reward approach with meme coins that requires you to constantly monitor these coins. Now that I've made enough, I'm rotating my gains back into low-risk assets that don't require I monitor them 24/7. I started with about $10,000 and wouldn't have made this much without doing high risk, high reward crypto.

 

[osprey099]

If I was in medical school, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to learn all the things I do about crypto because I'm the type to obsess over things that interest me until I know every minute detail about them. For example, the reason I know crypto will moon next year is because of the Bitcoin halving event. Every 4 years, there's an event called Bitcoin Halving, which causes the reward for mining a Bitcoin block to be halved. This is why Bitcoin and crypto moons every 4 years. When the halving event occurs, the supply-demand equilibrium is disrupted in a way that favors crypto to spike. Considering the recent approval for Bitcoin ETF, demand is going to be higher than ever and the last bitcoin halving took place in April this year. The bull market has about a 7 month lag before the bull run. That's why I know the next bull run will happen late this year.

So no, I wouldn't have known all this if I had to focus on medical school.

Also, the method I took to make almost $1 million was using a high risk, high reward approach with meme coins. That requires you to constantly monitor these coins. Now that I've made enough, I'm rotating my gains back into low-risk assets that don't require I monitor them 24/7.

So you can accurately predict the markets. Good for you and good luck lol. Why even become a doctor if you can always pick the right stocks?

 

[redtrain21]

So you can accurately predict the markets. Good for you and good luck lol. Why even become a doctor if you can always pick the right stocks?

What kinda logic is this, jf your becoming a doctor for money you in the wrong field lol

 

[cj_cregg]

The opportunity cost of that extra gap year or MPH is somewhere in the 500k+ range, taking into account a year of lost attending peak income, a year of capitalized student loan interest accrual, a delayed year of income investment, and a year of extra costs/tuition. Would that have been worth it for you? Perhaps. But for myself and for the vast majority of premeds (in my opinion), it is not worth it.

It wasn't easy getting into medical school back in "our day" either. I do agree it is tougher now solely because there's increasing competition based on the fact that more and more applicants apply every year. But I don't agree with your last sentence. Those who are driven and motivated know exactly what to do before they even step foot onto a college campus. There is plenty of time in the 3 years of college to accrue all of the hours and "experiences" needed to be a competitive applicant.

I suppose I look at more than just financial factors when I consider opportunity cost. Whether I started working as an attending in 2023 or 2025, I would still have a very comfortable life and more money than I know what to do with. I will probably never have the opportunity to spend multiple months abroad again until I retire (if I'm healthy enough to do so and don't have family attachments making it difficult to leave the US for extended periods of time), or take classes or a job opportunity just because it seems interesting, etc. Those things get harder and harder to do once you're settled into a career (and for some of us, starting a family), and I have many times wished I took more time to explore my interests and the world rather than just putting my head down and finishing school as fast as I could. I don't think either of us is right or wrong here, it's just a matter of values and priorities. It seems we differ in that respect, and that's okay - my point is that there are many students for whom what you're advocating is not the right choice, and the same goes for my approach.

I didn't mean getting into medical school when we were applying was easy - it wasn't. But it's harder now. Obviously, there is time in 3 years to get a good enough application to get in somewhere, even at a prestigious school - plenty of applicants do it every year. But, it is much harder, and I think attempting to do so sometimes comes at the cost of an applicant's mental health and work/life balance. You have to know what you want and have good mentorship on day 1, and a lot of people just don't have those things. There are only so many hours in a day, and no matter how driven and motivated and well-informed a student is, the same caliber of student applying 1 year after graduating vs at the end of their junior year will have more hours and depth of experience, and likely more offers and options as a result. Getting into med school is a zero sum game, unfortunately - it's not just a matter of being "good enough," it's a matter of being better than the other applicants, and if you have 3 years of experience vs 5, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. And it shows in the applications I review - I just don't see a ton of college juniors/seniors whose experiences, essays, LORs, etc. "wow" me in comparison to some of the folks with a gap year or two.

 

[sarcasmrules]

So you can accurately predict the markets. Good for you and good luck lol. Why even become a doctor if you can always pick the right stocks?

It is nice to be financially stable and have a sizable passive income but unlike you, my mind isn't just focused on money. The question is why are you a doctor when there are better ways to make money without taking on the debt of medical school? Money seems to be the forefront of your mind so why didn't you take your own advice?

 

[karaya]

This flame war is about to be nuked from orbit

 

[LunaOri]

Applicants should apply to medical school WHEN THEY ARE READY. Readiness includes not only stats and activities to list on your application, but the maturity to make the most of med school and become the best doctor you can be. For most applicants, that means a gap year or two outside the classroom.

 

[wysdoc]

I don't know what caused this thread to be so contentious, but I want to ask everyone to be receptive to different points of view.

The topic is making your way through med school and residency expeditiously and if you agree or disagree, do it respectfully.
The topic is not other ways to make money.

 

[osprey099]

Applicants should apply to medical school WHEN THEY ARE READY. Readiness includes not only stats and activities to list on your application, but the maturity to make the most of med school and become the best doctor you can be. For most applicants, that means a gap year or two outside the classroom.

In my opinion, this is idealistic but non-practical. The very reason I created this topic is because most premeds have an idealistic vision of what being a doctor is like or what the process of becoming one is like. I once held an idealistic view as well, but I can tell you after years of grueling high-stakes tests in medical school, working 80+ hrs/wk on minimum wage in residency/fellowship, and watching your prime years (20s) fly by while putting your nose to the grind, the sooner you finish this process and become an attending, the better your circumstances will be. Attending life has it's own challenges for sure, but at least you have a very strong income stream and job security as a baseline.

 

[LunaOri]

In my opinion, this is idealistic but non-practical. The very reason I created this topic is because most premeds have an idealistic vision of what being a doctor is like or what the process of becoming one is like. I once held an idealistic view as well, but I can tell you after years of grueling high-stakes tests in medical school, working 80+ hrs/wk on minimum wage in residency/fellowship, and watching your prime years (20s) fly by while putting your nose to the grind, the sooner you finish this process and become an attending, the better your circumstances will be. Attending life has it's own challenges for sure, but at least you have a very strong income stream and job security as a baseline.

In my opinion, if you have lived a little before you start, you are better able to handle the deprivation. The younger you are when you start, the more you feel like you are missing out.

 

[stay_foolish]

In the tech world, major accomplishments took place when individuals were in their 20s, as seen with Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sergey Brin. Similarly, pivotal scientific discoveries and studies, such as the gravitational theory and the theory of relativity, were formulated by those in their 20s. It's not that people in their 30s and 40s cannot make breakthroughs, but the path to a medical career involves chasing high GPAs, engaging in clinical and non-clinical experiences, conducting "research," and preparing for the MCAT, followed by a year-long application cycle with over 30 applications and hundreds of essays. Subsequently, there's the rigorous MD curriculum and the USMLE steps, (which AI has been shown to perform well on ). This is before entering a residency that demands over 80 hours of work per week. There are room to improve in U.S. medical education system to better utilize some of the most capable minds, by giving them space and allowing them to achieve more in their 20s.

 

[eigen]

There are room to improve in U.S. medical education system to better utilize some of the most capable minds, by giving them space and allowing them to achieve more in their 20s.

I think this is very true, but I'd argue things are moving in that direction: by encouraging gap years and students to do other things before medical school, that's exactly what happens. They make use of their capable minds, make advances in fields, then bring those experiences to medicine when they apply in their late 20s or early 30s.

That said, I'd also suggest that there's a benefit to thinking about research and clinical practice both separately and together. The US has an immense lack of physicians in many parts of the country to deal with "routine" healthcare. The more of medical education focuses on people who aren't practicing, the slower we backfill that gap. For whatever reason, a lot of students think they need to do an MD to do medical research, and discount the huge branch of training devoted to research (PhDs). To be fair, I thought similarly as an undergraduate, and it wasn't until I was doing research at a medical school that I realized the diversity of ways that could happen.

I think there's something to be said for encouraging "the most capable minds" to pursue graduate training and look into research careers, and that doesn't seem to be as common.

To be clear: I'm not arguing that there isn't a role for physician scientists, or folks at the clinical/research overlap: just that I think the overlap need is narrower than we commonly advertise, and that there's a lot that can be done to bridge that gap via collaborations rather than trying to train single individuals to do it all.

 

[stay_foolish]

Applicants should apply to medical school WHEN THEY ARE READY. Readiness includes not only stats and activities to list on your application, but the maturity to make the most of med school and become the best doctor you can be. For most applicants, that means a gap year or two outside the classroom.

I don't agree. Readiness from gap years is basically because of the competitiveness and it is not because whether the student is actually ready or not. If people are going to DO, they can sacrifice their time towards more Clinical/Non-Clinical hours than getting consistent high GPA or MCAT score. Even within MD, the Bar for certain schools are too high compared to some other lower ranked schools. I think this readiness is more of filtering process. If the student is a A or B student, have interest in science and have the right reasons and want to reduce suffering of people, they are all ready for medical school. Most students drop out of Pre-med not because they did bad in clinical/non-clinical volunteering, but they don't do well in Org. Chem or get 503 in FLs.

 

[LunaOri]

I don't agree. Readiness from gap years is basically because of the competitiveness and it is not because whether the student is actually ready or not. If people are going to DO, they can sacrifice their time towards more Clinical/Non-Clinical hours than getting consistent high GPA or MCAT score. Even within MD, the Bar for certain schools are too high compared to some other lower ranked schools. I think this readiness is more of filtering process. If the student is a A or B student, have interest in science and have the right reasons and want to reduce suffering of people, they are all ready for medical school. Most students drop out of Pre-med not because they did bad in clinical/non-clinical volunteering, but they don't do well in Org. Chem or get 503 in FLs.

You are missing the point. To reiterate: stats plus interest in science/medicine does not equal the maturity necessary to succeed in medical school.

 

[Dantes]

I agree. I'm a non-trad in residency and regret taking as many gap years. Maybe 1-2 would be ok. Tuition, interest rates, cost of living, and healthcare in general are going in bad, and possibly unsustainable, directions.

 

[2026PreMed]

I agree. I'm a non-trad in residency and regret taking as many gap years. Maybe 1-2 would be ok. Tuition, interest rates, cost of living, and healthcare in general are going in bad, and possibly unsustainable, directions.

Sorry to hear that bro. I really am. What specialty and how old if I might ask ? How many gap years ? My advice is to not calculate lost income because it serves nothing and eats away at you. You'll make it bro congrats on getting into residency.

 

[osprey099]

Telling it like it is. Thank you for this post you have no idea how much this means. My goal is to finish my Spine Fellowship for Ortho Surgery and become an attending at 34. Even then I know this is far later than what it should be. I should have been done at 32 but the two gap years I took wasted time. This advice should be more standard. Gap years are a drain on future income. Ortho spine surgeons make an average of around $975,820 so by taking two gap years I have already lost out on $1,951,640. That's almost 2 million I have lost out on before the age of 24. Every day this fact physically pains me so much that I almost want to give up on medicine.

Do you mind explaining what a chief resident is and how I can avoid this in the future when it comes up ? Thank you. Also and advice on getting into Medical School ? thank you.

I wouldn't be so laser focused on a specific subspecialty. Take it one step at a time (get into med school first). Your goals/ability to match into a specialty may change over time. As a premed, I thought I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. During the first 2 years of med school, I wanted to be a radiologist. During MS3, I decided to apply internal medicine with plans to do GI fellowship. During residency, I decided to pursue heme onc instead.

My overall advice (as stated in first post) is to just get through all the prerequisites and training years as fast as possible, regardless of the end-goal.

Chief resident is usually handpicked by program director to serve as an administrator to help manage a residency program. For some specialties like internal medicine, it adds an extra year to your residency. Essentially, you are a glorified secretary creating schedules for residents, organizing noon conferences, and managing the sick call jeopardy system. It is a complete waste of time and opportunity cost of a delayed year of attending income. It is only worth it if you are going for one of the really competitive fellowships and your application needs a boost or you don't think you'll match directly out of residency.

 

[osprey099]

I agree. I'm a non-trad in residency and regret taking as many gap years. Maybe 1-2 would be ok. Tuition, interest rates, cost of living, and healthcare in general are going in bad, and possibly unsustainable, directions.

The main thing is healthcare reimbursement has decreased year over year, stagnant at best. CMS just proposed another cut on physician fees published last week. Every other industry is experiencing wage increases (some far outpacing inflation) while doctors are getting paycuts.

 

[osprey099]

In my opinion, if you have lived a little before you start, you are better able to handle the deprivation. The younger you are when you start, the more you feel like you are missing out.

I hear your point. However, those 7+ years (10 in my case) of school/training still need to be completed whether you are 21 or 31 when you start. You may be more "mature" with more life experiences if you have a later start, but other obligations/life events happen when you're older too. For example, I'm 31, married and with a kid incoming. If I was a med student or resident at this time, I can't imagine how I'd have the time, energy, or money to raise a kid and support a family in addition to handling med school/residency.

 

[Fluoxetine_non]

Really appreciated for all the posts. I am the kind of person who wants to pursue a degree at a "prestigious" school, and I really want to be one of the leaders in my field in the future. SO I am really struggling in making the right choice.

I really really want to do a MD in the NA, but the time cost will be high. I probably even have to take another Master program in the NA to full-fill my pre-requirements, at the risk of getting no MD admission offers at all, because I am an international student.


On the other hand, although there is no guarantee, I think the chance for me to get into one of my local medical schools will be relatively higher. In the best situation, I will start my program next year, and graduate 4 years later and start my career as a physician with the "high income". AND clearly, the second option would be something align well with the idea of the OP, and I agree it is definitely a wise choice. I can spend another 4-5 years to get a MD degree from my local med schools, while working as a physician FT.

However, I really want to get a MD degree from NA. I think I am becoming paranoid for this. If I choose the second option. Even though I will be able to pursue the career of physician and get a MD, I probably will feel upset each time when I realised that I didn't manage myself to get into a med school in NA in the future.

 

[stay_foolish]

You are missing the point. To reiterate: stats plus interest in science/medicine does not equal the maturity necessary to succeed in medical school.

I am also not implying "Stats+interest in science/medicine" is the only important quality. What I meant to say is current tiered level admission process imply so.. For my own curiosity., How was the admission process before 20 years ? How many of the Physicians currently in their 50's or their colleagues in their 50's took gap years.