The Stress of $$$

[hanksquirrel]

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Yo guys - you all have been of great help to me in the past (see "My Dilemma" thread). In my quest to try to determine whether to go the rads vs. path route, I have found myself stressing about the money. but, the truth is, I think we'll be okay in whatever field we choose. I mean, it's ridiculous for me to sit here and say that the money in path ain't enough. And, when I stop and say, "ok, let's really not worry about the cash", I feel like I gravitate toward path more and a huge stress is lifted off of my shoulders. Is that odd? How the hell did I get this way? It's funny that we all speak so purely about our ambitions in medicine (help people, save world, etc), but I've meant so many people in med school who are all about $$$. I, regretfully, say that this has impacted me. Damn. Damn. I don't know - I'm so sick of thinking about $$$. I guess I just need to rise above the bull#&@%.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, I agree. I'm an MS4 and I've noticed that as med school has progressed people become more and more obsessed with money. I get caught up in it too, especially when you start compairing specialties, etc. Then I see all of these patients in the hospital with horrible diseases, etc. who are drained physically, emotionally, and financially and I really feel like a ****ing jerk. Think about the fact that so many personal bankruptcies occur because of medical expenses and you'll really start feeling like an dingus. Not that I don't think that doctors should be well compensated for the responsibility and complexity of their job, but then again, "well compensated" is very subjective depending on your background, etc. Then again, some people get paid millions for putting a ball through a hoop!

 

[yaah]

Then again, some people get paid millions for putting a ball through a hoop!

Or, in some cases, for NOT putting the ball through the hoop. Or, in Derek Lowe's case, for NOT throwing strikes.


Don't worry, it's perfectly natural in this capitalist society where it's all about the bling bling to worry about moolah. I think you'll be ok. Almost any field of medicine will provide you with enough money to live a comfortable lifestyle, provided of course you don't consider DVD-equipped Humvees, beach house in West Palm, ski chalet in Aspen, and season tickets to the red sox comfortable.

You truly have to do what makes you happy. I guess for some, making the most money possible is what makes them happy, but they probably shouldn't have picked medicine as a career.

Smitty, my rationale for believing why doctors should be well compensated includes not only the fact that you have to go through so much education (paying for it all) but the fact that you have peoples' lives depending on you.

I'm glad to see Mr squirrel that you can let fly some ****ing curse words and let out your anger a bit. It's healthy! I am glad to hear you are more at peace with yourself and your decision though. It takes a lot to look so closely and critically at your own decisions.

If it IS all about the money, I'd be willing to bet that pathology residents have the highest per hour income of any residents...Plus those casino nights that we hold for all the post call residents really seem to bring in some cash.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Honestly, money is on a lot of people's minds when they're premed even. Not to say that this is the predominant motive for going to med school and medicine. It's just so taboo to talk about money during the med school application process (if you ever mentioned money as even a small motive during interviews, you'd get rejected from med school in a heartbeat!). Now we've made it to med school! And we're now switching from that taboo mindset to a more realistic mindset (there is a kind of job in medicine we can enjoy doing AND it makes us some good cash). So I propose that we stop beating ourselves up over the fact that money is figuring into our motives and decision-making process at this point of time in our lives. Other people do it...why can't we?

 

[2005]

I think another reason money gets to be an important issue is deprivation. You can only go without for so long. Each year we are in school the bill keeps getting bigger and the expenses continue to escalate. Due to increases in tuition and expenses for away rotations, etc., my student loan check isn't cutting it and I'm tired of going without. However, I think we will all be fine as long as we don't go manic when the first paycheck shows up during intership.

 

[GMO2003]

which one of the pathology subspecialties on average yileds the highest renumeration?

dermpath?

 

[E Z Daring]

Why are you guys worried? All your money is going to go to your kids and spouses anyway. You will be driving the same car you had in college IMO until your 40 😀

 

[yaah]

I think another reason money gets to be an important issue is deprivation. You can only go without for so long. Each year we are in school the bill keeps getting bigger and the expenses continue to escalate. Due to increases in tuition and expenses for away rotations, etc., my student loan check isn't cutting it and I'm tired of going without. However, I think we will all be fine as long as we don't go manic when the first paycheck shows up during intership.

It's funny, my first paycheck doesn't show up until the end of this month, so I better be careful...Otherwise, whoops! Wha' happened?

p.s. I think in general derm path is the, on average, highest compensated specialty. But for any one individual case this is not necessarily true.

 

[Fermata]

It's funny, my first paycheck doesn't show up until the end of this month, so I better be careful...Otherwise, whoops! Wha' happened?

p.s. I think in general derm path is the, on average, highest compensated specialty. But for any one individual case this is not necessarily true.

What does a derm path dude do all day?

It seems like you would just look at cancer all day.
🙁

 

[pathdr2b]

Why are you guys worried? All your money is going to go to your kids and spouses anyway. You will be driving the same car you had in college IMO until your 40 😀

As a person who's almost 40, and STILL premed (for now 😉 ), I resent this comment! 😡

FYI, I got rid of my college car YEARS ago!!

Out of curiosity, how much money is "enough"? 😕

 

[Fermata]

As a person who's almost 40, and STILL premed (for now 😉 ), I resent this comment! 😡

FYI, I got rid of my college car YEARS ago!!

Out of curiosity, how much money is "enough"? 😕

If I know anything about doctors....that combination of crack and Starbucks addiction tends to add up. 😀

 

[pathdr2b]

If I know anything about doctors....that combination of crack and Starbucks addiction tends to add up. 😀

Excuse me but, "crack is whack"!!!

I alwyas heard that drug addicted docs liked the powdery stuff.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

crack? crack? who's got some?

 

[yaah]

Out of curiosity, how much money is "enough"? 😕

Well, there is no easy way to quantify how much, but off the top of my head I would say, over the course of a lifetime, $4,647,263.32. It takes into consideration a number of factors, including replacing a car every 4-5 years, high speed cable/internet, living in a house where everyone has their own room and bathroom, and having to eat as few Ramen noodle packets as possible. It also assumes 1.1021 spouses over the course of a lifetime, 2.3215 children and 1.756 pets (not including fish).

I think that would be enough. 😛

This, by the way, points out why pennies are so important to save.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

you forgot feeding the crack habit yaah.

 

[pathdr2b]

Well, there is no easy way to quantify how much, but off the top of my head I would say, over the course of a lifetime, $4,647,263.32.

That's over 200k/year! 😱

I hope you guys keep this in mind when you're setting my salary as a resident 8 years from now!

 

[yaah]

That's over 200k/year! 😱

I hope you guys keep this in mind when you're setting my salary as a resident 8 years from now!

Well, that's the sum total. So it's 200K/year averaged over a lifetime. So, if you only work for 23 years, yes, that would be true. Since I made $300 k per year between the ages of 8 and 14 by selling Lemonade on the street, I may not have to work that long. This residency salary is ****ing with my plans though. Good thing I am earning money on all those oil stocks I own. 😉

This is only my figure, scientifically calculated of course (by closing my eyes and slamming the keyboard). Yours may differ. Sadly, though, the government is getting a lot of that, and yesterday they spent the day debating whether same sex marriages should be illegal. Sigh. Too bad you can't withold tax dollars because your representatives are wasting it. If I wasted my allowance when I was 10, my mother wouldn't give me more. The government is like a spoiled child.

Feeding the crack habit is kind of a wash. You can make money off of a crack habit too, if you are a doctor. Crack addicts need doctors too for the monitoring of the blood pressure.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

doctors can make more money selling crack...it's also a way of increasing their patient base they can use the profits for their own crack habit. then they OD and land on our autopsy table. then in our autopsy reports, we say, "dude died of crack. i wish i had known him; he could've given me some"

AndyOnCrack (my next screen name should the name AndyMilonakis be deemed offensive in the future--the thought of a little fat greek kid freestylin nonsensical rap may offend some ya think?)

 

[desmangt]

If money is what you are worried about, then check out this site:
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm
I would say that pathologists do very well, especially considering that most pathologists retire alot later than clinicians and surgeons. So...overall lifetime accumulation of income is pretty impressive. Plus you will never become EXTREMEY rich with work salary, etc. True money (millions) is made through investments like the stock market and realestate, etc.
Also, I'm not a radiologist, but aren't more and more radiology films being sent overseas nowadays (telepathology)?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Thanks for the site. The radiology $ figures seem a bit lower than I would expect.

As for the radiology films being sent overseas, I wasn't aware of this. Interesting...

 

[yaah]

Yaah is curious as to what the difference between an "Invasive Cardiologist" and an "Interventional Cardiologist" is. How does that work? Pay me! I can invade you but I can't intervene.

Actually, screw it. I know what they mean. There is a separate training fellowship. Lots of cardiologists can do catheterizations, but they have to call someone else in if they want to angioplasty or put in a stent. I have always considered that strange. Apparently, it's worth many thousands of dollars per year...

My theory: Get the interventional cardiologist to do the cath! Then you don't have to call anyone! I guess that would be too easy. Plus, there only has to be one interventional cardiologist going back and forth between three rooms of invasive cardiologists all doing caths. Room one needs a stent, ok. When room one finishes, room 3 is ready for the angioplasty. Still seems like a bit of a waste....I would feel pretty crappy if I trained for 8 years or whatever it is and I wasn't able to do that last bit of putting the stent in.

Dangit. All these posts this afternoon are distracting from my wonderful and inspired TWINKIE post. I need a girlfriend. Anyone want to be my girlfriend?

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

I need a girlfriend. Anyone want to be my girlfriend?

What happened to our queen cookypuss??

 

[b&ierstiefel]

you forgot "inventional cardiologists" who make up heart sounds that no one else hears on physical exam.

and holy crap! 135 twinkies!

btw, who was your favorite catwoman? 🙂

 

[yaah]

btw, who was your favorite catwoman? 🙂

Michelle Pfeiffer. Who else? That's a fine woman.

I hear she lives on a diet of Twinkies and Jolt.

I don't know what happened to Cookypuss. Perhaps she succumbed to the desert sun. Perhaps she was so taken in by clinical medicine that she returned from an elective with dreams of Evidence Based Medicine, the abdominal exam, or delivering babies. Somehow I doubt it. Maybe they just took away her computer. Wherefore art thou, cookypuss? 😍

 

[b&ierstiefel]

aahhhhh he said evidenced based medicine.

for the love of god stop!

just kidding

I agree...Michelle Pfeiffer definitely was the best catwoman.

 

[quant]

I agree on Michelle Pfeiffer being the bst catwoman ever. Did you know that she supposedly has a very high IQ in the genius range?....or was that Sharon Stone?

 

[quant]

B-e-s-t

 

[yaah]

I agree on Michelle Pfeiffer being the bst catwoman ever. Did you know that she supposedly has a very high IQ in the genius range?....or was that Sharon Stone?

If Sharon Stone has a high IQ then I have the baseball ability of Barry Bonds and I am just choosing to ignore this. Either one of two things is true.
1) She chooses to ignore her brain, or
2) She is the smart one and everyone else in the world is stupid.

Well, I eat my words, I looked it up on IMDB. She was given an IQ of 154 as a child. I'm still going under the assumption that she was given that IQ by the high school debate champ in exchange for agreeing to go to the prom with him. I bet she left the prom with someone else though.

 

[Primate]

So, 154 is now considered "high?" Talk about brain inflation.

😉

P

Aside: I'm always amazed at how many peeps think IQ is a decent measure of shmarts.

 

[yaah]

My IQ usually comes out somewhere between 145 and 155, and the fact that Sharon Stone is apparently in the same range makes me cringe, cry, and then want to go to the video store, rent a copy of the vomit-inducing Basic Instinct and laugh and hurl Cheese Kurls and vicious insults at the screen. But then again, I don't want to waste the $3 or mess with my TV.

But actually I don't know how IQ translates to the real world anyway.

And plus, med students don't have to worry about IQs. They have standardized tests to quantify their intelligence and the intelligence of the people they dislike and wish to make fun of. Yeah, IQ doesn't mean crap. I agree.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

The standardized tests given in med school are, in my opinion, unable to assess actual intelligence. People do well on these tests by studying incessantly and by memorizing stuff.

Now let's turn it around on our patients. The most laughable thing is the Folstein mini-mental status exam. It's funny when the med student sees the patient and gives the test. Then the intern gives the test. Then the senior resident. And you see the scores increasing incrementally. Then the senior is like, "this guy's mental status is improving." I'm thinking, "what a dimwit."

 

[Dr Dean]

RARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR LOANS are way too stressful.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

this Dr. Dean is hilarious. he begins almost all of his posts with that devilish scream.

all he needs now is a link to the actual sound file of Dean's outburst.

 

[Dr Dean]

RARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! I only do that during minor surgeries.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

here's for you Dr Dean 🙂

http://www.crocuta.net/Dean/Screamin_Dean.htm

the yelp sounds more like a yaah than a raah

 

[Dr Dean]

👍

 

[yaah]

here's for you Dr Dean 🙂

http://www.crocuta.net/Dean/Screamin_Dean.htm

the yelp sounds more like a yaah than a raah

Yeah, he was actually talking to me. I was sitting there in Worcester the night of the Iowa caucuses and I got this call from one of his staffers saying, "yo, keep your ears open, Dean's gonna give you a shout out from Des Moines, fo' shizzle." So he did. I never figured out what it was supposed to be for though. Maybe he always wanted to be a pathologist.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

it's too bad Dean isn't running for president in light of the fact Edwards is on the Democratic ticket. Being that we'll be doctors or soon-to-be doctors, having Edwards as VP can't help matters. Now I'm in a bit of a pickle with the upcoming presidential vote. Vote for the idiot president or vote for the guy running with Edwards who made lots of money off of doctors in lawsuits based on bogus science.

I think Cookypuss should run for president!

 

[yaah]

Democrats accuse Republicans of being in the pockets of oil companies and millionaire CEOs, which is only partially true. Republicans are also in the pocket of the NRA and big conglomerate evangelical churches.

Republicans accuse Democrats of being in the pockets of trial lawyers and millionaire union kingpins. This is also partially true. Democrats are also in the pockets of hollywood celebrities (ugh) and power brokers.

Yes, I will have a hard time voting for a ticket that includes someone who got rich on "bad baby" cases. I'm sure he litigated in lots of real malpractice trials and brought justice to many, but I am also equally sure that he helped screw some honest hardworking MDs out of their careers. Kerry almost lost my vote when he picked John Edwards, and he still might. But the current president is just so unfortunate in his interactions with the world at large. I have promised myself that I will vote for Bush/Cheney this November if one thing happens: If he pronounces the word "Nuclear" correctly. If he can do that, he will get my vote, I promise. But I know that's not going to happen, because now it's a matter of pride. The best way to get someone from Texas to do something is to tell them they should do they opposite, because some people from Texas have some perverse personal pride and superiority (or is it an inferiority) complex that makes them not like it when anyone tells them what to do. Sigh.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

OK man I'm with ya! If GW Bush can say "Nuclear" I'll vote for him. If he can say "Verisimilitude" then I'll get my friends to vote for him!