The truth about Midwestern AZ

[abbahunter123]

I am a 1st year student here at MWU-AZ campus and the following are my opinion.

The school has bells and whistles.
Sure you get all the new equipment you would not get in a state school but unlike most schools, you DO NOT GET TO KEEP ANY INSTRUMENTS after you graduate. That means shelling out an extra 15k-20k in equipment once you decide to start you're own practice.

Keep in mind your interview was a sales pitch
Yes they want their top choice of students to make life easier for them, so if they present their school in a likeable way then the chance of that is higher. They tell you how they want a 100% graduation rate for each class, I don't know if we have ever had a class where no one has dropped out. We have had drop outs in the current 1st, 2nd and 3rd year classes that I can confirmed. Compare that to other schools like Minnesota where the drop out rate is zero for most classes. They brag about their board pass rate being high, sure its slightly higher compared to the national average but don't forget we have schools like University of Detroit Mercy, University of Florida, New York University and many others that have had 100% pass rates for many years.

The school is full of disillusioned people
Students who have no idea the kind of debt they are getting into and think that they will pay off their loans in 4 years. There was a thread a few years ago by a MWU student saying how he will graduate with what is equivalent to 5 years of experience as a dentist. During, the military scholarship presentation by the army, I over heard a group of people saying that it'd be stupid to do the military scholarship because going to MWU will allow you to pay back the loans faster than the 4 years of service...WELCOME to MIDWESTERN!

Overall, in my opinion, I feel conned. During the interview, the school presented itself very differently from other schools but now I feel I would get the same education no matter where I went.

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[Daneosaurus]

Where were you on my interview day?

 

[doc toothache]

"You DO NOT GET TO KEEP ANY INSTRUMENTS after you graduate" because you did not purchase them. The main advantage of leasing equipment while in dental school is that, once you graduate, you do not end up with 15-20K in equipment you are only going to use as paper weights.

 

[abbahunter123]

"You DO NOT GET TO KEEP ANY INSTRUMENTS after you graduate" because you did not purchase them. The main advantage of leasing equipment while in dental school is that, once you graduate, you do not end up with 15-20K in equipment you are only going to use as paper weights.

Are you sure? Because Midwestern's tuition is one of the highest in the country.

 

[doc toothache]

Are you sure? Because Midwestern's tuition is one of the highest in the country.

For residents, there are 7 other ds and for non residents 15 other schools that rival Midwestern's tuition. In any case, the high cost of "tuition" has little to do whether you get to keep the instruments upon graduation. That is a function of how the school structures the requirement for the equipment needs. As a student there, shouldn't you be the one to know whether you are purchasing or leasing the equipment?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-cost-of-us-dental-education.1102338/

 

[abbahunter123]

For residents, there are 7 other ds and for non residents 15 other schools that rival Midwestern's tuition. In any case, the high cost of "tuition" has little to do whether you get to keep the instruments upon graduation. That is a function of how the school structures the requirement for the equipment needs. As a student there, shouldn't you be the one to know whether you are purchasing or leasing the equipment?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-cost-of-us-dental-education.1102338/

I understanding sarcasm is not you're forte. My point was that we pay more for tuition than most schools yet we don't get to keep our equipment when other schools do. I wouldn't call 15k-20k of equipment paper weight.

 

[doc toothache]

I understanding sarcasm is not you're forte. My point was that we pay more for tuition than most schools yet we don't get to keep our equipment when other schools do. I wouldn't call 15k-20k of equipment paper weight.

Your rant about Midwestern appears to have seriously clouded your RC. Unless, a contract reads otherwise, a student is no more entitled to free instruments than free breakfast, lunch and dinner while attending school and neither of them have anything to do with how much tuition you are shelling out. Why not take a chill pill for a day, a week, or a month sabbatical from sdn and upon your return, revisit the posts. If you are still seeing them the same, perhaps additional clarification is in order.

 

[swindoll]

I am a 1st year student here at MWU-AZ campus and the following are my opinion.

The school has bells and whistles.
Sure you get all the new equipment you would not get in a state school but unlike most schools, you DO NOT GET TO KEEP ANY INSTRUMENTS after you graduate. That means shelling out an extra 15k-20k in equipment once you decide to start you're own practice.

Keep in mind your interview was a sales pitch
Yes they want their top choice of students to make life easier for them, so if they present their school in a likeable way then the chance of that is higher. They tell you how they want a 100% graduation rate for each class, I don't know if we have ever had a class where no one has dropped out. We have had drop outs in the current 1st, 2nd and 3rd year classes that I can confirmed. Compare that to other schools like Minnesota where the drop out rate is zero for most classes. They brag about their board pass rate being high, sure its slightly higher compared to the national average but don't forget we have schools like University of Detroit Mercy, University of Florida, New York University and many others that have had 100% pass rates for many years.

The school is full of disillusioned people
Students who have no idea the kind of debt they are getting into and think that they will pay off their loans in 4 years. There was a thread a few years ago by a MWU student saying how he will graduate with what is equivalent to 5 years of experience as a dentist. During, the military scholarship presentation by the army, I over heard a group of people saying that it'd be stupid to do the military scholarship because going to MWU will allow you to pay back the loans faster than the 4 years of service...WELCOME to MIDWESTERN!

Overall, in my opinion, I feel conned. During the interview, the school presented itself very differently from other schools but now I feel I would get the same education no matter where I went.

Cleaver! I'll try that too if I get waitlisted next year!

 

[abbahunter123]

Your rant about Midwestern appears to have seriously clouded your RC. Unless, a contract reads otherwise, a student is no more entitled to free instruments than free breakfast, lunch and dinner while attending school and neither of them have anything to do with much tuition you are shelling out. Why not take a chill pill with a day, a week, or a month sabbatical from sdn and upon your return, revisit the posts. If you are still seeing them the same, perhaps additional clarification is in order.

You are comparing 15k-20k worth of equipment to a free lunch? Genius.

Let me put it simpler for you to understand:

A piggy goes to the market to buy a basket of fruit. Two farmers approach the piggy, each offering a gold basket of fruit for the same price, an astonishing $450, 000. One farmer, however, says Piggy has to return the gold basket to him after he's done, the other is offering that Piggy keeps the basket.

Which offer does piggy choose?

Hopefully, you can wrap your small mind around this concept this time. Please respond if you need any help.

 

[abbahunter123]

Where were you on my interview day?

Maybe in your interview day you should have asked if they had a class with 100% board pass rate or 0 dropouts. You will see that I am telling the truth.

 

[wildzodiac]

 

[BestDoctorEver]

THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE!


Glendale Tuition and Fees
Glendale, AZ Campus

• TUITION AND FEES
• TUITION PAYMENT
• PAYMENT PLANS

Glendale Tuition and Fees (for academic year 2014-2015)
Please Note: Tuition rates are subject to change each academic year for all enrolled students. Historically, tuition has increased between 4% and 7% annually.

Program

Tuition

Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine

$58,030

College of Pharmacy - Glendale

$50,577

College of Dental Medicine - Arizona*

$65,348

Arizona College of Optometry**

$35,122

Physician Assistant Studies

$42,074

Occupational Therapy

$35,790

Biomedical Sciences, Master of Arts

$38,193

Biomedical Sciences, Master of Biomedical Science

$32,655

Podiatric Medicine***

$36,965

Cardiovascular Science****

$35,682

Nurse Anesthesia

$38,677

Clinical Psychology

$30,297

Physical Therapy

$34,035

Veterinary Medicine

$52,400

For the 2014-2015 academic year, all programs (both full and part-time) have an annual student services fee of $600. Additional fees may be assessed including disability insurance or other charges as determined by each individual college. Students enrolled on a less than full-time basis will be charged tuition based on a per-credit-hour fee as determined by the University. If a student is given "advanced standing" and registered less than full-time in a given quarter, they will be charged on a per-credit-hour basis. All rates and fees are subject to correction.

*The College of Dental Medicine - Arizona Program has the following additional fees:

• Technology Fee - First Year Only - $1,500
• Surgical Atlas and Telescope Fee - First Year Only - $1,678
• Supply Fee - All Years - $4,314
• Instrument Rental Fee - All Years - $1,990
• Simulation Laboratory and Clinic Fee - All Years - $5,178

** The Arizona College of Optometry Program has the following additional fees:

• Technology Fee - First Year Only - $1,500
• Equipment and Diagnostic Kit Fee - First Year Only - $4,358

*** The Arizona School of Podiatric Medicine Program has the following additional fees:

• Technology Fee - First Year Only - $700
• Surgical Instrument Fee - First Year Only - $600

**** The Cardiovascular Science Program has the following additional fees:

• Technology Fee - First Year Only - $699

 

[Daneosaurus]

Yes @BestDoctorEver it is a very expensive school. One of the reasons I elected not to go there.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Yes @BestDoctorEver it is a very expensive school. One of the reasons I elected not to go there.

It's amazing that their dental school tuition alone is 10k higher than my med school COA/yr...

 

[doc toothache]

A piggy goes to the market to buy a basket of fruit. Two farmers approach the piggy, each offering a gold basket of fruit for the same price, an astonishing $450, 000. One farmer, however, says Piggy has to return the gold basket to him after he's done, the other is offering that Piggy keeps the basket.
Hopefully, you can wrap your small mind around this concept this time. Please respond if you need any help.

Where exactly can these farmers be found?

It's amazing that their dental school tuition alone is 10k higher than my med school COA/yr...

What is "amazing" is that their dental school tuition is only 10k higher than that for med school.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Where exactly can these farmers be found?


What is "amazing" is that their dental school tuition is only 10k higher than that for med school.

I said cost of attendance--not tuition... My tuition is only 32k/year... I borrow 55.5k/y for tuition/fees/books/living expenses etc...

 

[doc toothache]

I said cost of attendance--not tuition... My tuition is only 32k/year... I borrow 55.5k/y for tuition/fees/books/living expenses etc...

Where exactly can these farmers be found?


What is "amazing" is that their dental school tuition is only 10k higher than that for med school.

I said cost of attendance--not tuition... My tuition is only 32k/year... I borrow 55.5k/y for tuition/fees/books/living expenses etc...

What is "amazing" is that their dental school cost of attendance (not tuition) is only 10k higher than that for med school.

Modified for your benefit. [/QUOTE]

 

[BestDoctorEver]

....

 

[Kef318]

For those of us without a state school, we're paying a lot of money regardless of where we attend. The question becomes how does the substantially cheaper cost of living in Arizona outweigh the significantly higher costs of living in places like New York or Boston?

As far as MWU-AZ giving a sales pitch---don't they all???

 

[abbahunter123]

What is "amazing" is that their dental school cost of attendance (not tuition) is only 10k higher than that for med school.

Modified for your benefit.

[/QUOTE]


*The College of Dental Medicine - Arizona Program has the following additional fees:

• Technology Fee - First Year Only - $1,500
• Surgical Atlas and Telescope Fee - First Year Only - $1,678
• Supply Fee - All Years - $4,314
• Instrument Rental Fee - All Years - $1,990
• Simulation Laboratory and Clinic Fee - All Years - $5,178

So with tuition alone being ~7k higher than their med school (65k vs 58k)
1st year includes almost additional 15k in expenses.
2nd to 4th year includes almost additional 12k in expenses.

So no the COA is not 10k higher. Its between 20k-23k higher for each year. During orientation, which was multidisciplinary, when the tuition sheet was put on the projector and they announced dental tuition, the room filled with laughter from the kids from the other program as the COA was ridiculous.

 

[abbahunter123]

For those of us without a state school, we're paying a lot of money regardless of where we attend. The question becomes how does the substantially cheaper cost of living in Arizona outweigh the significantly higher costs of living in places like New York or Boston?

As far as MWU-AZ giving a sales pitch---don't they all???

Not like the way MWU does, I assure you, if you interviewed there you will find they take "selling" their school to the students VERY seriously.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

What is "amazing" is that their dental school cost of attendance (not tuition) is only 10k higher than that for med school.

Modified for your benefit.

[/QUOTE]

Now I understand your post... My point was every single professional program tuition at MWU is outrageous... Charging student 65k just for tuition plus fees/healthcare/leaving expenses etc... We are talking about close to 100k/year COA. There is not way I would commit that financial suicide no matter how much I love dentistry or medicine... My MD school is only 32k/year and I still think it's expensive... Even a PA student at that school is paying almost 10k/year more than me in tuition! How much a general dentist will have to make to be able to pay back 400k student debt in 10 years?

 

[Kef318]

I was there and was accepted (along with a few other private schools).

Back to my original question. Does the combined cost of higher tuition at MWU, coupled with the cheaper cost of living in Arizona offset the lower tuition and cost of living in other more expensive cites (like NYC or Boston).

 

[doc toothache]

Not like the way MWU does, I assure you, if you interviewed there you will find they take "selling" their school to the students VERY seriously.

With almost 3K applicants, in today's atmosphere and attitude toward ds tuition/COA, they could ease on "selling" their school and still have 140 willing applicants.

 

[abbahunter123]

With almost 3K applicants, in today's atmosphere and attitude toward ds tuition/COA, they could ease on "selling" their school and still have 140 willing applicants.

They could ease it, correct. But to get their first choice of applicants, which they deem most suitable (least likely to drop out hence a tuition paying seat will not be wasted and makes life easier for faculty if you bring the right attitude), they put a lot of effort in their sales pitch.

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

I was there and was accepted (along with a few other private schools).

Back to my original question. Does the combined cost of higher tuition at MWU, coupled with the cheaper cost of living in Arizona offset the lower tuition and cost of living in other more expensive cites (like NYC or Boston).

Well yes probably. AZ is a cheap place to live I hear. In the end its your COA that matters but obviously tuition is the main factor determining your COA so that's what people talk about when comparing schools. Another advice would be to NOT go to dental school for that amount as suggested by the 100s of dentists on dentaltown.

 

[draperdds]

Guys,

If you have a problem with Midwestern-AZ's tuition, then just DON'T GO THERE. Simple enough. There are thousands of others who are dying to take out loans to attend Midwestern if they were accepted. I don't know why there are complaints about this and how it is causing such a huge dilemma here. If you have a problem with the school, just don't go. Go to your state school.

 

[SM555]

Guys,

If you have a problem with Midwestern-AZ's tuition, then just DON'T GO THERE. Simple enough. There are thousands of others who are dying to take out loans to attend Midwestern if they were accepted. I don't know why there are complaints about this and how it is causing such a huge dilemma here. If you have a problem with the school, just don't go. Go to your state school.

The problem is that there are "thousands of people dying to take out loans" when they don't realize they will be dying with these loans.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Guys,

If you have a problem with Midwestern-AZ's tuition, then just DON'T GO THERE. Simple enough. There are thousands of others who are dying to take out loans to attend Midwestern if they were accepted. I don't know why there are complaints about this and how it is causing such a huge dilemma here. If you have a problem with the school, just don't go. Go to your state school.

That is a strange attitude to have as a pre-dent student... What about the people who have only one acceptance?

 

[Kef318]

Why no hate toward Tufts, BU, NYU or Columbia than? Those tuitions aren't exactly cheap either and the cost of living in those cities is 2 to 3 times as much as Glendale.

Everyone's financial situation, family circumstances, etc. is different. You have to do what works best for you.

 

[MatCauthon]

I just ran a financial analysis. Using Midwestern's numbers from their website (the thrifty budget cost of living numbers, btw) It will be at least $520k to attend this school, including compounding interest. It will actually be higher than that factoring in grad plus loans (higher interest rate) and yearly tuition increases.

Students can argue this all they want, but that kind of debt load is ridiculous unless you factor in a government bailout.

 

[Daneosaurus]

OMG...you WILL be able to pay your loans.

 

[Digitalangel]

OMG...you WILL be able to pay your loans.

are you sure 🙁?

 

[Daneosaurus]

are you sure 🙁?

Absolutely. I'm not saying paying loans are fun, I'm not saying you will live that "dentist life" while paying them. But, you will have the earning potential to pay it back and still live comfortably.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Absolutely. I'm not saying paying loans are fun, I'm not saying you will live that "dentist life" while paying them. But, you will have the earning potential to pay it back and still live comfortably.

You should run the numbers on a 150k salary... It won't be easy to even pay back a 400k loan in 10 years... If MWU will really cost 520k, it will be quasi impossible to pay that in 10 years on that salary unless you have a significant other who also has a decent income... You did a good thing by choosing UPitt over MWU...

 

[doc toothache]

Students can argue this all they want, but that kind of debt load is ridiculous unless you factor in a government bailout.

In case of self inflicted financial distress one can always hope for a handout from someone else.

 

[Kef318]

And again I ask....what about NYU, Columbia, BU and Tufts and what it takes to live in those cities.

 

[Tmoneymaj]

This is actually pretty funny. This thread started because a dental student, who is probably struggling with school, wanted to whine about not getting to keep his instruments when hes done with school. Then it turns the corner trying to say that MWU is charging students a significant amount more then other dental schools out there (which is false btw). Yes, state schools are going to be much less pricey for INSTATE students and some provide a better education and some simply do not. Some have new clinical rooms and work stations and some have old crappy looking clinical cubicals and workstations. They are all different. ALL OOS applicants that do not have an instate school will be spending a large sum of money unless you find scholarships or use the military which they should know before they even apply. The point is, calling out MWU for being expensive and not giving you your equipment that you rented is ridiculous. Every school is trying to recruit you when you go on a visit and they obviously don't actually want you if they don't try.

 

[asusundevilll]

You wil be able to pay it back eventually. You might not have that balla lifestyle for a while unless you get lucky or do extremely well. But as long as you know this and accept it you'll be fine.

 

[yeslek88]

This is the 21st century. Literally everything comes with a sales pitch. Every school I have interviewed at was making a pitch on some level, privates more than state schools. NYU in particular. The massive financial commitment of D school is something you should have considered prior to applying, not after you began attending. As previous posters have proven this information is available to anyone with fingers and an internet connection.

 

[draperdds]

The problem is that there are "thousands of people dying to take out loans" when they don't realize they will be dying with these loans.

I'm sure they will find ways to pay off their loans. If they will be "dying with these loans", then let them deal with it. Everyone has their own problems to worry about.

 

[draperdds]

That is a strange attitude to have as a pre-dent student... What about the people who have only one acceptance?

What do you mean by "what about the people who have only one acceptance"? Again, simple enough, if they want to choose that one school, so be it. If they don't want to, because of their own reasons, then they don't have to go. NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO ATTEND DENTAL SCHOOL. You do your own research, and you make your own decisions.

 

[Daneosaurus]

What do you mean by "what about the people who have only one acceptance"? Again, simple enough, if they want to choose that one school, so be it. If they don't want to, because of their own reasons, then they don't have to go. NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO ATTEND DENTAL SCHOOL. You do your own research, and you make your own decisions.

Yet again, it is better to have these loans and be a dentist than not be a dentist.

 

[tbiv21]

I did appreciate the fact that USC in their financial aid presentation gave precise numbers of how much you'll owe when you're done and how much the payments would be which were over $6k a month for 10 years or $3400 or so on a 25 year plan which means you end up paying over 1 mil on the 25 year plan. Doing the IBR plan was still a lot since the balance of the loan that is forgiven is counted as taxable income hut she suggested doing that while investing $1000 a month in a safe investment so when the 20 years are up you have plenty saved up to pay off the huge tax amount while keeping your payments lower when your starting out. This amount of debt is not for me which is why I'm doing the army route, and I'm actually looking forward to that which I know isn't for everyone. I also thought Midwestern was very upfront with the fact that it is an expensive school, but part of that is to have the highest paid faculty to help the students and keep their equipment up to date. I can't say they tried to "sell" the school more than others because they all want you to think theirs is the best

 

[distressstudent]

I did appreciate the fact that USC in their financial aid presentation gave precise numbers of how much you'll owe when you're done and how much the payments would be which were over $6k a month for 10 years or $3400 or so on a 25 year plan which means you end up paying over 1 mil on the 25 year plan. Doing the IBR plan was still a lot since the balance of the loan that is forgiven is counted as taxable income hut she suggested doing that while investing $1000 a month in a safe investment so when the 20 years are up you have plenty saved up to pay off the huge tax amount while keeping your payments lower when your starting out. This amount of debt is not for me which is why I'm doing the army route, and I'm actually looking forward to that which I know isn't for everyone. I also thought Midwestern was very upfront with the fact that it is an expensive school, but part of that is to have the highest paid faculty to help the students and keep their equipment up to date. I can't say they tried to "sell" the school more than others because they all want you to think theirs is the best

regarding USC: however, I did think that the lady was WAY too optimistic about students being grandfathering in the IBR and PAYE. Like way too optimistic. Nothing about the tax at the end or anything about potential changes.

 

[tbiv21]

Well she did mention how much the tax would be at the end which is why she talked about investing the $1000, but I agree about being grandfathered in once your on it. We'll see how it turns out. I'm just glad I don't have to worry about for myself

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

Sorry to say this but any student going to this school without a military scholarship or parents help and still thinking that they will live like the experienced practicing dentists of today are sheep for the slaughter.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Sorry to say this but any student going to this school without a military scholarship or parents help and still thinking that they will live like the experienced practicing dentists of today are sheep for the slaughter.

You're a wonderful ball of optimism, aren't ya.

 

[helpmepleasedentists]

i also felt like they were trying too hard to sell this school in my interview
whatever they're doing its working since ive read a few people choosing MWU over their state school as well.

 

[Incis0r]

i also felt like they were trying too hard to sell this school in my interview
whatever they're doing its working since ive read a few people choosing MWU over their state school as well.

I personally think that MWU-AZ is a fantastic program.