The Truth Behind Commonly Cited Statistics In the Healthcare debate

[Instatewaiter]

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I did not volunteer a few hours at a free clinic. I dedicated an entire year volunteering FULLTIME at this free clinic. 40 hours/week, for a year. I do feel I have an understanding on what these ppl go through. I don't see how anyone with the same experience of me could EVER have the attitude of "doctors do not have time and the money to offer some free services to uninsured and needy people."

.deleted to be nice

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Yes, actually I do. I work part-time as an EMT with a local ambulance service. Nice try, as*hole. Some of us work for a living.

lullz. a part-time emt.

 

[tkim]

lullz. a part-time emt.

And what do you do?

 

[texahn]

How does anyone lose touch with reality so severely and then adopt such a skewed view of things as it is?

I think this "reform" should include something about medical education to make it more efficient so that doctors don't have to pay such a high opportunity cost.
And TORT REFORM.

Why do politicians keep screwing physicians?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

And what do you do?

what does it matter? i just find it funny that a part-time emt gets all huffy about proving HHHIIIIISSSSS services


edit - i also find incredulous the proportion of SDN folks who start foaming at the mouth when people mention right to access. how can any person in healthcare find problems with right to access??

 

[tkim]

what does it matter? i just find it funny that a part-time emt gets all huffy about proving HHHIIIIISSSSS services

It matters if you, as the person casting stones, does even less, or nothing. We call that hypocritical.

 

[Hernandez]

I don't see how anyone with the same experience of me could EVER have the attitude of "doctors do not have time and the money to offer some free services to uninsured and needy people."

I've spent time in your shoes, so before you claim that you can't fathom why people become like me, walk a week in my shoes and deal with the crap I deal with on a daily basis.

You have to pay off student loans like 90% of med school graduates and then will have to use 45% of your payroll for overhead. Boohoo. I think your $100k+/year income is still a lot better than the majority of the ppl in this country.

Yet another idealistic pre-med that misses some very huge points of the financial impact of spending an addtional 4 years after college in expensive training and 3-6 years in post-grad training making $40k/year

link

There are some over simplifications, but the point it's making is true.

You think the volunteer docs don't have student loads to pay back? You said volunteering a few hours a week isn't a big deal as a doc? Awesome. Glad you have that opinion. I expect to see you dedicate one afternoon/week at your private practice for uninsured pts to come in after being referred by a PCP at the free clinic.

I already do, and I will start spending time in the county health department 1 half-day a week taking care of TB as well soon.

You want to also know why the docs come to the free clinic instead of having the pts come to their private clinics? It's because they are PCPs and can easily move from clinic to clinic offering health care. Specialists, on the other hand, are not as mobile, have tons of equipment, and cannot just pack a bag to get over to the free clinic.

This is a sad oversimplification. Sure it's easy to be mobil for PCPs, but there is some implications that might cross medicare/caid rules if you run a free clinic out of the same clinic you see your regular patients in.

That is why the free clinic refers these pts to be seen at the private offices of the specialists willing to see uninsured pts. For specialists, the uninsured pts DO come to the private clinics for free services. Yes, the same place where the paying pts with health insurance go! For PCP, the docs go to the free clinic to see the pts. This is how it works. As a fellow and your 10+ years of experience over me, I would think you knew this.

This is not universally true, nor is a requirement. My subspeciallty can easily be mobil

Sorry dude, I have firm beliefs and your status as a fellow will not change my mind. Besides, if ppl really become this jaded by the time they get to their fellowship, then you should be encouraging my compassion. From the way you try to make it sound, I will become much less compassionate 10 years from now when "I know" so much more about medicine. I would think you would want premeds to be super compassionate so by the time they are jaded 10 years later then they may have a little compassion left.

My rule of thumb is I do not care more about a patients welfare than they themselves care and are willing to work on it. You're so freaking compassionate because you've yet to have 5 years of patients try and milk you for all your worth and use your compassion to their advantage for their secondary gain. I'm glad you think the world is sunshine and butterflies and that pre-meds crap rainbows. but at 4am, and after the 5th call demanding that I give them pain meds or after being yelled out for daring to limit a diabetics diet to 1800 calories a day, I frankly have a hard time giving a damn.

In the last 3 weeks I've seen
1) 10+ people with significant cardiomyopathies due to their persistant and habitual drug use
2) 2 of the above require diaylsis as well
3) the above 2 also each have 5+ admissions within the last week due to non-compliance with meds and their cocaine use
4) I can think of 4 patients with ESRD within the last 2 months that practically live in the hospital because they get free food and waited on hand-and-foot. 1 of the patient's son is PAID as a full time worker to be the healthcare guardian and take care of her AND we pay to have 3 visiting nurses a day to actually do everything that he's suppose to be doing and he will never show up to the hospital or answer calls when it comes down to trying to make decisions on the direction of care to try and get his family member out of the hospital.
5) In the last 2 months, I've been yelled out by family about being a damn greedy doctor who's trying to kill their family member because I make more money for transferring their poor trached/pegged/sacral ulcer covered family member to hospice after their 4th admission for sepsis within the last month.
6) I too have several diabetics in my practice that are type 1s, and I litterally kiss the drug reps asses to get them to leave enough insulin to give to the patient who's too stinkin lazy to fill out the patient assistance forms to get him free insulin from the drug companies directly.

While I'm sure you feel smug in your "compassion" what you fail to realize since you're not there is EVERYONE goes throw the same basic journey through their training. I'm in the point were I'm jaded, annoyed, and so damn sick of the patients who such the life out of me that all I can imagine the new reform doing is further expanding the class of lazy patients who love their disabilities because the gub'ment gives them their "check" and they expect that I'll give them dilaudid on their beck-and-call.

The next step for me is to fall back into some compassion after I get out into the real world where 90% of my patient population isn't blood sucking drains on my compassion. You'll go through the same basic progression of compassion levels if you get through the medical training process.

 

[whoknows2012]

great post

 

[RogueUnicorn]

It matters if you, as the person casting stones, does even less, or nothing. We call that hypocritical.

of course, at least you must admit this is an assumption on your part.

edit: and what do you mean by do? and in that vein, what's doing less than that? i want to know if we're arguing about the same thing.

 

[texahn]

@Hernandez thanks for your level-headed commentaries

 

[OHMAN0125]

hernandez's post just made me extremely sad. 👎

 

[RogueUnicorn]

ups drivers' jobs are very safe too, apparently. (in terms of job security, that is) and if the king of queens is any indication, they also get the nice lookin wives..

hmmm....

 

[rocketbooster]

hernandez's post just made me extremely sad. 👎

he's just one of those ppl further in their career who need a place to complain. so, they come to the premed forum on an anonymous forum to do so. they try to use their disgruntled lives to dissuade optimistic premeds from medicine. it's pretty pathetic.

for anyone who has been on these forums in the past month or two, then you will know hernandez is not the first "oh woe is me" resident coming to the premed board. like a month ago, there were like 5 threads all made in one day by disgruntled residents. and guess how ppl treated them? ppl told them to suck it up and shut up.

you should know before med school that you're going to be treated like **** as a resident. I actually knew that since I was like 8 years old haha. you just have to remind yourself that you knew all along what was coming ahead and that things will get greener when you finish training. especially for the residents, you're almost there. finish strong without sounding pathetic. every doctor I've talked to told me "yes, residency is bad, but it is not nearly as bad these days as it used to be. they kick your butt, but that's how you learn. it's part of the game you have to play." so play the game, residents, and soon you'll be the ones bossing around the resident slaves. 👍

 

[texahn]

@rocketbooster
Judging from your tone you seem to be very far in your medical training.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

every doctor I've talked to told me "yes, residency is bad, but it is not nearly as bad these days as it used to be.

all old-timers say that about anything. "back in my day, blah blah"

 

[Hernandez]

he's just one of those ppl further in their career who need a place to complain. so, they come to the premed forum on an anonymous forum to do so. they try to use their disgruntled lives to dissuade optimistic premeds from medicine. it's pretty pathetic.

Now who's ignore what was said? and where did I tell anyone not to go into medicine? nice change of topic from healthcare changes and what docs can and can't afford or should be allowed to make.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

he's just one of those ppl further in their career who need a place to complain. so, they come to the premed forum on an anonymous forum to do so. they try to use their disgruntled lives to dissuade optimistic premeds from medicine. it's pretty pathetic.

for anyone who has been on these forums in the past month or two, then you will know hernandez is not the first "oh woe is me" resident coming to the premed board. like a month ago, there were like 5 threads all made in one day by disgruntled residents. and guess how ppl treated them? ppl told them to suck it up and shut up.

you should know before med school that you're going to be treated like **** as a resident. I actually knew that since I was like 8 years old haha. you just have to remind yourself that you knew all along what was coming ahead and that things will get greener when you finish training. especially for the residents, you're almost there. finish strong without sounding pathetic. every doctor I've talked to told me "yes, residency is bad, but it is not nearly as bad these days as it used to be. they kick your butt, but that's how you learn. it's part of the game you have to play." so play the game, residents, and soon you'll be the ones bossing around the resident slaves. 👍

With every post you've been making, you've been losing more and more credibility. Hernandez never told us not to go into medicine. You're making things up. You seem to think you know better than everyone else since you volunteer with the uninsured. I really don't think you're unique in that aspect (the volunteering with the uninsured part).

Why do you seem to think that a realistic view of the profession is a bad thing? Yes, this is a realistic view. Since you've been using so many anecdotes, I'll use one too I guess. Pretty much every single attending and resident I've spoken to has told me that the actual practice of medicine itself is nothing like what they thought it would be. They've all been telling me similar things as these "disgruntled residents." It's not all sunshine and rainbows.

Hernandez didn't make a "woe is me" post; rather, he pointed out what the practice of medicine is actually like. So stop putting words in people's mouths.

 

[rocketbooster]

With every post you've been making, you've been losing more and more credibility. Hernandez never told us not to go into medicine. You're making things up. You seem to think you know better than everyone else since you volunteer with the uninsured. I really don't think you're unique in that aspect (the volunteering with the uninsured part).

Why do you seem to think that a realistic view of the profession is a bad thing? Yes, this is a realistic view. Since you've been using so many anecdotes, I'll use one too I guess. Pretty much every single attending and resident I've spoken to has told me that the actual practice of medicine itself is nothing like what they thought it would be. They've all been telling me similar things as these "disgruntled residents." It's not all sunshine and rainbows.

Hernandez didn't make a "woe is me" post; rather, he pointed out what the practice of medicine is actually like. So stop putting words in people's mouths.

*siiighh* okay Kaushik, you win. I wish I had your view. 😀 I know nothing about medicine whatsoever. I'm glad I have hernandez, the anonymous fellow on an anonymous forum, to tell me how medicine really is since I haven't been around it my entire life.

I apologize if I came off to anyone as thinking I'm better than everyone. I don't think that and that was not my intention. I just know that not every doctor is as jaded as these residents, that's all. I think what happens is during residency it's easy to become jaded, but then once they start their practice they begin to like their lives again and remember why they entered medicine to begin with. If I was being treated like a slave for a few years in a row, I would also probably be angry at life haha. So, I apologize for not being more understanding, residents. I just ask you to remember why you entered medicine to begin with. I'm sure that will get you through your residency and then soon you will finally start to see the payoff for all your hard work.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

*siiighh* okay Kaushik, you win. I wish I had your view. 😀 I know nothing about medicine whatsoever. I'm glad I have hernandez, the anonymous fellow on an anonymous forum, to tell me how medicine really is since I haven't been around it my entire life.

anonymous fellow >> anonymous premed, perhaps?

 

[TopSecret]

hernandez's post just made me extremely sad. 👎

It's not really like that in private practice. What Hernandez may not know is that a lot of private practice docs refer medically complicated patients and patients with personality disorders to specialists at the teaching hospitals. It's just how things are. Private practice docs have the option of terminating physician-patient relationships with difficult patients (just need to provide via certified mail a 30-60 day advance notice with a list of other doctors the patient could see) and be with the patients they like.

When I was a fellow, I had similar experiences except I was never called a greedy doctor or anything of the sort. I actually got gifts, such as books, and letters of appreciation from patients of all age groups for being so kind to them. Of course, I would put in quite a bit of time on the phone answering any questions that the patients might have long after the clinic is closed and on weekends, too.

Taking care of others who are unable to take care of themselves is the nature of the profession. It's easy to become frustrated doing this day in and day out. But when you encounter patients who are truly grateful that you're their doctor and hug you, it reminds you why you're in this profession.

 

[ahowardmd]

what does it matter? i just find it funny that a part-time emt gets all huffy about proving HHHIIIIISSSSS services

The point was that I do provide medical services. You trolled in on one of my posts to be a smart-ass, and I met you with my rebuttal. At least I do something with patients, unlike the vast legions of pre-meds (not to generalize ya know) who pass off volunteering at the hospital as "clinical experience".

What I get "huffy" about is people claiming their rights to other people's goods and services. I can't stand it when politicians stand on stage and blatantly steal from others through their foggy rhetoric.

Whatever, I'm done with this thread. Maybe in 7-10 years I'll go practice in Africa, where there are actually REAL poor people who need help. Most of the American uninsured, poor and homeless are people who are either too stupid to help themselves or they are just smart enough to know how to work the system for their benefit. I don't mind helping those who can't help themselves, but it does get frustrating. However, the ones who just leech off the system, they don't deserve a minute of anybodies time. Their numbers will only grow with a larger socialist system in place.

[/rant]

 

[tkim]

of course, at least you must admit this is an assumption on your part.

edit: and what do you mean by do? and in that vein, what's doing less than that? i want to know if we're arguing about the same thing.

I made no assumption. I asked 'what do you do?' in the context of you making fun of a part time EMT.

So, it should be very clear that I asked if you have a J.O.B. and if so, what it is. It's pretty easy to figure out. You can sidestep the question some more if you like.

EDIT: NVM - nurse for less than a year.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I made no assumption. I asked 'what do you do?' in the context of you making fun of a part time EMT.

So, it should be very clear that I asked if you have a J.O.B. and if so, what it is. It's pretty easy to figure out. You can sidestep the question some more if you like.

EDIT: NVM - nurse for less than a year.

that wasn't clear from your post. and yea. i do. two.

 

[tkim]

that wasn't clear from your post. and yea. i do. two.

So I guess you think your job is superior to the part-time EMT job. That's fine. Good luck.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

So I guess you think your job is superior to the part-time EMT job. That's fine. Good luck.

i don't. thanks, i need it.

 

[MN premed]

No, there are more like 30+ million uninsured American citizens.

Okay, I worded that wrong, oops.

I meant that if the OP's statistics are reliable (which I think they are, I've seen similar things in many places), then there are about 8 million uninsured people in the U.S. that are not illegal, don't qualify for medicare/medicaid/etc, and can't afford health insurance. All of the other uninsured people are clearly not the issue, because if they're not a citizen of the U.S., we definitely shouldn't be paying for their healthcare (as they are not paying taxes). If they qualify for something else like Medicare, then they just need to be taught how to use it. And if they can afford it but choose to spend the money on something like a tanning membership, big screen tv, nicer house, etc, then that is THEIR problem. They have the money, and they've chosen different priorities. It sucks, but again, it was their choice.

 

[GoldShadow]

All of the other uninsured people are clearly not the issue, because if they're not a citizen of the U.S., we definitely shouldn't be paying for their healthcare (as they are not paying taxes).

Not disagreeing with most of the rest of your post, but this part is incorrect. Plenty of non citizens, mainly green card holders, work visa holders and permanent residents, pay taxes.

 

[MN premed]

Not disagreeing with most of the rest of your post, but this part is incorrect. Plenty of non citizens, mainly green card holders, work visa holders and permanent residents, pay taxes.

I might be wrong...but I think the OP's statistics took into account these people. I think that only the illegal immigrants are the ones who were excluded from the 8 million number he cited. Not sure though. Either way, I only meant the illegal immigrants. Sorry about the confusion!

 

[45408]

he's just one of those ppl further in their career who need a place to complain. so, they come to the premed forum on an anonymous forum to do so. they try to use their disgruntled lives to dissuade optimistic premeds from medicine. it's pretty pathetic.

for anyone who has been on these forums in the past month or two, then you will know hernandez is not the first "oh woe is me" resident coming to the premed board. like a month ago, there were like 5 threads all made in one day by disgruntled residents. and guess how ppl treated them? ppl told them to suck it up and shut up.

you should know before med school that you're going to be treated like **** as a resident. I actually knew that since I was like 8 years old haha. you just have to remind yourself that you knew all along what was coming ahead and that things will get greener when you finish training. especially for the residents, you're almost there. finish strong without sounding pathetic. every doctor I've talked to told me "yes, residency is bad, but it is not nearly as bad these days as it used to be. they kick your butt, but that's how you learn. it's part of the game you have to play." so play the game, residents, and soon you'll be the ones bossing around the resident slaves. 👍

You tell 'em!

 

[Parts Unknown]

I meant that if the OP's statistics are reliable (which I think they are, I've seen similar things in many places), then there are about 8 million uninsured people in the U.S. that are not illegal, don't qualify for medicare/medicaid/etc, and can't afford health insurance.

Unfortunately that doesn't make the remaining 39 million people magically disappear.

 

[BennieBlanco]

anonymous fellow >> anonymous premed, perhaps?

I definitely don't agree with this statement in general, but it seems so in this case.😎

People need not be judged based upon the position of their career.

 

[BennieBlanco]

It's not really like that in private practice. What Hernandez may not know is that a lot of private practice docs refer medically complicated patients and patients with personality disorders to specialists at the teaching hospitals. It's just how things are. Private practice docs have the option of terminating physician-patient relationships with difficult patients (just need to provide via certified mail a 30-60 day advance notice with a list of other doctors the patient could see) and be with the patients they like.

When I was a fellow, I had similar experiences except I was never called a greedy doctor or anything of the sort. I actually got gifts, such as books, and letters of appreciation from patients of all age groups for being so kind to them. Of course, I would put in quite a bit of time on the phone answering any questions that the patients might have long after the clinic is closed and on weekends, too.

Taking care of others who are unable to take care of themselves is the nature of the profession. It's easy to become frustrated doing this day in and day out. But when you encounter patients who are truly grateful that you're their doctor and hug you, it reminds you why you're in this profession.

good post.

 

[mrmilad]

Idealism is an amazingly admirable but childish notion. Being passionate is an incredible attribute so far as it doesn't skew your ability to reason and face facts. Rocketbooster like Mr. Obama are attempting to solve an incredibly complex problem with a generalist solution. Life may be a right we all have, but healthcare is not necessarily included in that right. Our freedom of choice automatically negates that argument in that we should have the choice to live as unhealthy or destructively as we'd like. This is a pandora's box, if healthcare is a right, then so is right to employment, food, shelter, and hell happiness.

No matter what it may seem, doctors are scientists afterall. And the most important character that a doctor should have is critical reasoning. Work on reason and you will see that in the end, doctors are not public workers. If you want healthcare to be a "Right" then government should subsidize medical school and pay all of our loans. Then you can expect us to dedicate our time to uninsured and free clinics.

 

[Longshanks]

Interesting post, but do you mind backing it up with some sources? I'd be interested in reading more into it, thanks.

His source is Glenn Beck. I've heard this talking point touted off too many times by the talking heads, but never from an independent source.

 

[texahn]

No matter what it may seem, doctors are scientists afterall. And the most important character that a doctor should have is critical reasoning. Work on reason and you will see that in the end, doctors are not public workers. If you want healthcare to be a "Right" then government should subsidize medical school and pay all of our loans. Then you can expect us to dedicate our time to uninsured and free clinics.

You said exactly what I have been thinking about for the last month of so.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Idealism is an amazingly admirable but childish notion. Being passionate is an incredible attribute so far as it doesn't skew your ability to reason and face facts. Rocketbooster like Mr. Obama are attempting to solve an incredibly complex problem with a generalist solution. Life may be a right we all have, but healthcare is not necessarily included in that right. Our freedom of choice automatically negates that argument in that we should have the choice to live as unhealthy or destructively as we'd like. This is a pandora's box, if healthcare is a right, then so is right to employment, food, shelter, and hell happiness.

No matter what it may seem, doctors are scientists afterall. And the most important character that a doctor should have is critical reasoning. Work on reason and you will see that in the end, doctors are not public workers. If you want healthcare to be a "Right" then government should subsidize medical school and pay all of our loans. Then you can expect us to dedicate our time to uninsured and free clinics.

Good to know that there are students that think like you. Good luck this cycle. 👍

 

[bamtuba]

You have all just been graced by my presence on this thread as I am awesome and make this thread awesome just by reading it. I have figures to back my opinions up. I work. I like helping people. I am a part-time EMT. Oh, and this thread is giving me a SERIOUS case of ADD!



Now. Back to the show...

 

[TopSecret]

Idealism is an amazingly admirable but childish notion. Being passionate is an incredible attribute so far as it doesn't skew your ability to reason and face facts. Rocketbooster like Mr. Obama are attempting to solve an incredibly complex problem with a generalist solution. Life may be a right we all have, but healthcare is not necessarily included in that right. Our freedom of choice automatically negates that argument in that we should have the choice to live as unhealthy or destructively as we'd like. This is a pandora's box, if healthcare is a right, then so is right to employment, food, shelter, and hell happiness.

No matter what it may seem, doctors are scientists afterall. And the most important character that a doctor should have is critical reasoning. Work on reason and you will see that in the end, doctors are not public workers. If you want healthcare to be a "Right" then government should subsidize medical school and pay all of our loans. Then you can expect us to dedicate our time to uninsured and free clinics.

👍

 

[Dr Oops]

Unfortunately that doesn't make the remaining 39 million people magically disappear.

it also means we dont need to get ourselves into another trillion dollars of debt to get these people coverage.

 

[mrmilad]

it also means we dont need to get ourselves into another trillion dollars of debt to get these people coverage.

Good point, and another example why the healthcare seems to be a rushed and simplistic solution to a very complex problem. The government and Mr. Obama are basically going to incur a 100Billion dollar debt for the next ten years without any sure proof way to pay for it. Meaning if Obama was to not be reelected "probably a longshot" and the next president decides to cut spending, that we would have lost 400 billion dollars. The most shocking part of the healthcare bill is that not only is it going to be CUTTING doctor sallaries and forcing them to try to see more patients, but also the doctors and more wealthy will be the ones who are being taxed to pay for the healthcare... So imagine as a specialist who owes 400k for his education and you start to make like 120-150k the first year after your fellowship. BOOM! don't forget that you are now making in the top 97% or whatever the bracket will be and you will be taxed a huge sum of that. So it appears as this is a crusade on doctors based on the misconception that doctors have a easy life and they are all rich.

I believe what really needs to be reformed is 1. Liability Insurance (both cost to doctors and capped at certain levels to avoid abuse) 2. People must be educated on their expectations from physicians. The first of the two is self explanatory and it is evident that if doctors didn't have to incur such high costs from liability and also have to order many tests to cover their behind then cost would automatically be reduced.

The second point is in my belief a very important point in that the public have a very skewed view and more so expectations from a physician. People need to be educated about the human body and how complex complications are in the field. The public needs to realize that the human body is not a toaster, even if the doctor does 100% of what he is supposed to due, there will still be a very real chance of unforseen complications. For example I have a personal experience here with my father. I received a operation on my septum to relieve sinus issues about a year ago. As I was being extubated I had a Laryngeal closure which led to pulmonary edema and I ended being in the hospital for 3 days in the ICU as opposed to the 2 hours that I was supposed to be in for. When I came to and spoke with my father about the situation a few weeks later, his responses shocked me. He believed that the doctors had almost killed me and that we should sue them. My dad is a pastry cheff and so I went on to use this example for him. There have been times when he has made perfect cakes and when the client comes to pick up the cake before they exit the door they drop the cake because the bottom of the board was too greasy. Well is he to blame for that? This unforseen accident, is there really anyone to blame? So thats probably a terrible analogy but my point is that people must understand that the human body is much more complex than their TV, car, or toaster. They should know that sometimes even when everything has been done by the book, the patient will not respond accordingly.

The other edge of this argument is perception of doctors. Doctors need to become more public in discussions and educate people on the hard lifestyle they live. Mr. John Doe who is the manager at Ralphs needs to realize that a doctors job is not over when he is done with his shift. People need to realize the hard work and sacrifice doctors have put in and that the reimbursement is according. Many of these people who think doctors are overpaid are the ones who were having the best times of their life in college or after college. They don't give credit that these doctors were the ones staying home every night in college and sacrificing their time and probably the best times of their life so they could achieve their dreams of being a physicians. Things need to be given perspective, the average joe's and jane's need to be educated on a life in medicine.


Anyway sorry for the long post!

👍

 

[texahn]

@ mrmilad

amen to all that youve said. we should all form some kind of coalition for your concern for educating people about the human body and realistic expectations lol

 

[medictim84]

lullz. a part-time emt.

what does it matter? i just find it funny that a part-time emt gets all huffy about proving HHHIIIIISSSSS services


edit - i also find incredulous the proportion of SDN folks who start foaming at the mouth when people mention right to access. how can any person in healthcare find problems with right to access??

You're pathetic. That "part-time EMT" saves lives while you mock his job online. You don't need to provide advanced level care to save someone's life, sometimes just basic airway management, chest compressions and some oxygen is all that's needed. Obviously you don't know anything about that and with your attitude I doubt you'll ever get to a position where you do.

he's just one of those ppl further in their career who need a place to complain. so, they come to the premed forum on an anonymous forum to do so. they try to use their disgruntled lives to dissuade optimistic premeds from medicine. it's pretty pathetic.

for anyone who has been on these forums in the past month or two, then you will know hernandez is not the first "oh woe is me" resident coming to the premed board. like a month ago, there were like 5 threads all made in one day by disgruntled residents. and guess how ppl treated them? ppl told them to suck it up and shut up.

you should know before med school that you're going to be treated like **** as a resident. I actually knew that since I was like 8 years old haha. you just have to remind yourself that you knew all along what was coming ahead and that things will get greener when you finish training. especially for the residents, you're almost there. finish strong without sounding pathetic. every doctor I've talked to told me "yes, residency is bad, but it is not nearly as bad these days as it used to be. they kick your butt, but that's how you learn. it's part of the game you have to play." so play the game, residents, and soon you'll be the ones bossing around the resident slaves. 👍

I didn't even read your post but just thought you should know you're a loser, you don't have the right to tell other people to work for free and if I ever get a doctor like you I'm firing his ass and finding another one. I would fear that his psychotic idealism is an indicator of poor judgment and therefore possibly harmful medical care to me. It's a damn shame people who think like you are in a position of power--I sincerely hope you lunatics fail with this health care bill so that you don't inadvertently cause the deaths of thousands through rationing care. Enough people die already without help from people like you.

 

[bamtuba]

You're pathetic. That "part-time EMT" saves lives while you mock his job online. You don't need to provide advanced level care to save someone's life, sometimes just basic airway management, chest compressions and some oxygen is all that's needed. Obviously you don't know anything about that and with your attitude I doubt you'll ever get to a position where you do.

👍

Amen.

A-B-C. The best physicians and technology and insurance don't mean anything if you bring 'em in (really) dead.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

You're pathetic. That "part-time EMT" saves lives while you mock his job online. You don't need to provide advanced level care to save someone's life, sometimes just basic airway management, chest compressions and some oxygen is all that's needed. Obviously you don't know anything about that and with your attitude I doubt you'll ever get to a position where you do.

yet another premed telling people what kind of doctor they'll be, how they'll never get into med school etc etc. get off your high horse already, and for the last time, i never mocked his job. i mocked his attitude in light of his job.

to echo your own sentiment - with your reading comprehension i doubt you'll ever get into a position where you do.

 

[45408]

yet another premed telling people what kind of doctor they'll be, how they'll never get into med school etc etc. get off your high horse already, and for the last time, i never mocked his job. i mocked his attitude in light of his job.

to echo your own sentiment - with your reading comprehension i doubt you'll ever get into a position where you do.

Oh, look, you're on probationary status. What'd you do?

 

[UAAWolf]

It is a good idea to know the truth about statistics being thrown around in the health care debate. Here are 2 examples that are used all the time that show how statistics can be manipulated and then adopted as truth. For many of you this should be eye opening.


#1: US ranks 37th in the world in health care

This is based on the WHO rankings, which if you are not familiar with, you will be surprised to see what it is made up of. The WHO rankings are a ranking of how socialized a system is and not the quality of health care. So let me break it down for you.

The rankings are made from 5 factors weighted as below:
1. Health Level: 25 percent

2. Health Distribution: 25 percent

3. Responsiveness: 12.5 percent

4. Responsiveness Distribution: 12.5 percent

5. Financial Fairness: 25 percent

“Health level” is a measure of a countries “disability adjusted life expectancy” which on the surface makes sense as a measure of the health of a country. Life expectancy is related to many factors not related to health care. In fact, if you remove the homicide rate and accidental death rate from MVA’s from this statistic, citizens of the US have a longer life expectancy than any other country on earth. So basically take out the things not tied to health care and our life expectancy actually is the best. Hmmm... wonder why the WHO didn't do that...

“Financial fairness”- this one is a joke and is essentially a political tool pushing more socialized systems. It measures the % of income spent on health care which means it places a more value on systems that force the wealthy to pay for the country's health care. This factor doesnt measure the quality of health care but rather how the costs are "equaled" out. So a country in which all health care is paid for by the gov't via a progressive tax system but delivers terrible care, would score perfectly in this ranking. Well, seems like this is not a measure of a health care system at all but rather the intentions of the WHO to push their political agenda. This allows socialized systems to seem better without them having to be better.

“Health Distribution and Responsiveness Distribution” measure inequality in the other factors. In other words, another thing that does not actually measure the quality of health care delivery. It is possible, for example, to have great inequality in a health care system where the majority of the population gets “excellent” health care, but a minority only gets “good” health care. This system would rank more poorly on these measures than another country that had “equal” but terrible health care throughout the system.

So you see the WHO rankings are BS. They artificially prop up socialized systems where things are "equal" and the cost is placed on the wealthy. Notice that 62.5% of the rankings are based on how socialist a system is. So if obama's plan goes through, without anyone even getting care through the obama plan, our rankings in the WHO rankings would immediately skyrocket without our healthcare actually changing.
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#2- 46 million Americans are uninsured because they cannot afford coverage

Again, a commonly cited statistic that ostensibly shows just how bad the American system is. It is usually cited by people trying to promote gov't expansion to "fix" the problem. They use it to show that people cannot afford health care. This figure, like the last, is very misleading.

Let me break it down for you:

a) 10 million of those "46 million" are not US citizens.

b) 17 million more can afford health insurance but chose not to buy it- 8.3 million make $50-75K and 8.7 million make $75K -100K

note: $50,000 is between 200-300% of the poverty level for a family of 4. $100K is 450% of the poverty level for a family of 4.

c) 10-14 more million are eligible for gov't programs like Medicare, Medicaid, or SCHIP but don't apply for it or list it in the Census report.

d) 5-10 Million were uninsured only temporarily. The number from the survey was a snap shot and also includes those between jobs who are temporarily insurance-less but end up getting insurance during the year.

Now there is some overlap between these groups that has not yet been accounted for. The work here has already been done for us by Anthem as well as a few other groups all with similar findings.

The study by Anthem bluecross blue shield in 2003 looked at the overlap, those who chose not to buy insurance as well as those temporarily uninsured. The real number of uninsured Americans is 8.2 million

Convenient that no one cites this number. I guess soap boxing is harder to do with a statistic like 2.7% of the population is uninsured and cannot get coverage.

It is so good to know not everyone on here is crazy. Thank you for your post

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Oh, look, you're on probationary status. What'd you do?

somewhat amazingly, nothing on this thread, apparently

 

[aspiring hroark]

"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there's someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." Ayn Rand

rocketbooster - If you want to voluntarily serve for free, fine. But don't force the rest of us to using the power of govt.

 

[texahn]

"It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there's someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master." Ayn Rand

rocketbooster - If you want to voluntarily serve for free, fine. But don't force the rest of us to using the power of govt.

Lol. Yes, PLEASE practice for free.

 

[medictim84]

Lol. Yes, PLEASE practice for free.

Well, based on his judgment, his services wouldn't be worth anything anyway so that'd be more than fair imo.