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[Cornfed101]

Yeah, a biology degree isn't really useful for high paying careers. Sorry

Here are some high paying careers:

• Software - as a programmer you can make 6 figures within just a few years. Also, benefits at software companies are usually awesome. You can learn how to program without getting a 4-year degree.
• Business - Not everyone makes a lot in business, but it is possible to make a lot especially if you get into administrative roles. Get an MBA
• Other professional degree type careers like law, dentistry, etc.

While many of these careers don't pay as much as a physician you have to keep in mind that you start making money right now (not in 10 years) and if you invest intelligently then you can retire early and live on a beach or something.

 

[Moko]

I'm at a bit of a cross-roads in my life. I just graduated recently, a Biology BA with a 3.70 GPA. I'm definitely what you would call a lazy student, I scraped by, and I'm realizing that I don't think I can handle the kind of lifestyle that med school, residency, and being a doctor entails. However, I've always been drawn into medicine, particularly its money and prestige (I'm not afraid to say this. Many people here are delusional if you don't think these are important factors in a lifelong career).

However, I also agree that medicine is simply too difficult to succeed in if you don't have the commitment and drive for it. And I don't think I do. My goals in life involve having a comfortable, nice lifestyle, and not too stressful; and I know I simply don't have that drive to strive for the top of the top lifestyle residencies/specialties. I don't think I'm passionate for medicine, like many others are, so I do not think it be wise for me to pursue it. The question is, what else can I do?

I constantly see on this forum "don't go into medicine for the money, there are much easier ways of making similar amounts of money with way less work". What are these professions? Are these directed at people who haven't even started in undergrad yet? Because with my Biology major, I really feel like I don't have any more options now 🙁 I had planned to go into medicine, but now that that dream is dying, do I have any other career options I can go to? (Without having to redo my entire undergrad)

Am I screwed?

Everything you said is totally fine. Have you looked into PA school? You get to do most of what a doctor does, with a fraction of the training and debt. Good flexibility and job security. Average PA pay will afford you a comfortable lifestyle as well.

 

[Cornfed101]

Everything you said is totally fine. Have you looked into PA school? You get to do most of what a doctor does, with a fraction of the training and debt. Good flexibility and job security. Average PA pay will afford you a comfortable lifestyle as well.

If you want to stay in healthcare you can do PA or CRNA. Those both pay really well.

Whatever you do, you need to find something that you like to do. Money won't always be enough. I worked in software and I was making really good money, but I hated it.

 

[Jeremy Bearimy]

You would also be surprised how many jobs, even in competitive consulting firms, don't require a specific degree, just a 4 year bachelor degree. They may not be super high paying at first, but with experience comes pay in any field. And it will probably take less time than a medical education to reach a high salary.

 

[Goro]

I'm at a bit of a cross-roads in my life. I just graduated recently, a Biology BA with a 3.70 GPA. I'm definitely what you would call a lazy student, I scraped by, and I'm realizing that I don't think I can handle the kind of lifestyle that med school, residency, and being a doctor entails. However, I've always been drawn into medicine, particularly its money and prestige (I'm not afraid to say this. Many people here are delusional if you don't think these are important factors in a lifelong career).

However, I also agree that medicine is simply too difficult to succeed in if you don't have the commitment and drive for it. And I don't think I do. My goals in life involve having a comfortable, nice lifestyle, and not too stressful; and I know I simply don't have that drive to strive for the top of the top lifestyle residencies/specialties. I don't think I'm passionate for medicine, like many others are, so I do not think it be wise for me to pursue it. The question is, what else can I do?

I constantly see on this forum "don't go into medicine for the money, there are much easier ways of making similar amounts of money with way less work". What are these professions? Are these directed at people who haven't even started in undergrad yet? Because with my Biology major, I really feel like I don't have any more options now 🙁 I had planned to go into medicine, but now that that dream is dying, do I have any other career options I can go to? (Without having to redo my entire undergrad)

Am I screwed?

Clinical Lab Tech
Research lab tech or lab mgr
teaching
PT
Pulmonary tech
Anesthesiology Tech
Nursing
PA

You should really talk to your school's career counseling office; something that most college kids never, ever do.

 

[keolu hills]

People don't really seem to realize this: When you plan to become a Physician Assistant, you are going into medicine. It is a different career than a doctor, but a Physician Assistant practices medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

People don't really seem to realize this: When you plan to become a Physician Assistant, you are going into medicine. It is a different career than a doctor, but a Physician Assistant practices medicine.

Yes, but the admission process is different such that some candidates who would not be admitted to medical school may be admitted to PA school.
Furthermore, no residency or fellowship is required; the demands of residency/fellowship appear to be a concern to the OP.

 

[keolu hills]

Yes the application process is different. However, I was one of those that got rejected by PA programs, so I went to medical school. PA admissions has been pretty tough for awhile. Now some (not so good according to people like EMEDPA) programs don't look at work experience very much and are more concerned about academic ability in the sciences. PA is harder to get in to than DO schools.

It is also starting to get hard to switch specialties as a PA. For this reason and many others, PAs choose to do residencies.

As a PA, your lifestyle will depend on your specialty. For instance, working as a neurosurgery PA can be very stressful.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Many people here are delusional... I constantly see on this forum "don't go into medicine for the money, there are much easier ways of making similar amounts of money with way less work".

Unfortunately if you actually engage in a conversation with these very people you will find that they are delusional. There was a previous thread called Medicine as a Career which boiled down to a user stating that computer science was "...fast and relatively easy money..." in which "... starting salary around 60k which grows up 150+ over few years. No college, enjoyable schedule, good money, great job security, total life time earnings close to PCP." If it talks like a ridiculous sales pitch, walks like a ridiculous sales pitch, and smells like a ridiculous sales pitch then it is a safe bet to attribute it to being a ridiculous sales pitch.

If you start questioning these people it's very easy to uncover their sales pitch B.S. After a couple of posts they had to type, "The point was not that this is easy" and "I know what I am talking about... My mother and her friend are software engineers..." No matter how many pre-meds on this site believe that they are eunuchs going into martyrdom by castrating their financial well being, they are in fact no better off than a majority of their peers despite their own fantasy of being the next Bill Gates even though they made no effort to take an Introduction of Java or a Data Structures course because it would tank their GPA.

tl;dr You're probably interested in FIRE e.g. Financial Independence, Retire Early. This is not a career pathway, but there is a Discord & forum group for what you should be investing in to look forward to early retirement. The basis of FIRE is that you are going to suffer early in order to buy into an earlier retirement. There is no such thing as fast and easy money without their being an upfront investment. Unfortunately 60k as a junior dev does not just magically transform into a 150k if you spend your off work time playing Fortnite and Apex Legends.

 

[junky372]

Medicine is stable money - even during an economic downturn, you will likely have a job. But doing medicine solely for the money is a bad idea.

CS, finance, consulting, engineering may sound good from the outside for the same reason medicine sounds good from the outside - people see the potential paycheck and don't think about the steps leading up to it.

CS isn't easy money - the folks who make six figures out of college worked hard to get to that point. It's not easy to get a job at a well paying well known company and even then, some places (anecdotally Amazon, FB from my friends) are miserable places to work at.

Finance/economics jobs still require good grades in relevant and difficult classes, getting the right internship/connections, etc to get the good/high prestige jobs.

Consulting jobs aren't easy to get either, and they work you to the bone so they have to pay good money to make up for it.

 

[DrRealistic]

People who say that you shouldn't go into medicine for the sake of money without elaborating why are dumb. What they mean is that the potential roof is limited in medicine whereas in other fields such as business it is not. There is no other profession in this world that will guarantee you a high base salary as medicine (physician). But if you're lucky, you may be one of those lazy people who work in the basement a couple of hours a week and then sell your game to Microsoft for 2.5 billion USD (Notch) or act in a crappy hollywood movie and get paid 8-9 figures for each movie. But the odds of doing that are comparable to winning the jackpot. But yes, people are right, that's where most money is. But they never explain that you're 0,000001 % likely to achieve that lol. Hard work won't get you there.

If money is your goal and you don't want to take major risks then work yourself to IM residency. Work as a hospitalist and during your 7 days off channel your entrepreneurial spirit and start some form of business and pray that it turns out successful. Hospitalists (maybe EM too) have the best schedule for the business interested. And if things crap themselves, you always have your guaranteed 250-300k+ a year salary as hospitalist to pull back to.

 

[Cornfed101]

People who say that you shouldn't go into medicine for the sake of money without elaborating why are dumb. What they mean is that the potential roof is limited in medicine whereas in other fields such as business it is not. There is no other profession in this world that will guarantee you a high base salary as medicine (physician). But if you're lucky, you may be one of those lazy people who work in the basement a couple of hours a week and then sell your game to Microsoft for 2.5 billion USD (Notch) or act in a crappy hollywood movie and get paid 8-9 figures for each movie. But the odds of doing that are comparable to winning the jackpot. But yes, people are right, that's where most money is. But they never explain that you're 0,000001 % likely to achieve that lol. Hard work won't get you there.

If money is your goal and you don't want to take major risks then work yourself to IM residency. Work as a hospitalist and during your 7 days off channel your entrepreneurial spirit and start some form of business and pray that it turns out successful. Hospitalists (maybe EM too) have the best schedule for the business interested. And if things crap themselves, you always have your guaranteed 250-300k+ a year salary as hospitalist to pull back to.

Medicine is stable money - even during an economic downturn, you will likely have a job. But doing medicine solely for the money is a bad idea.

CS, finance, consulting, engineering may sound good from the outside for the same reason medicine sounds good from the outside - people see the potential paycheck and don't think about the steps leading up to it.

CS isn't easy money - the folks who make six figures out of college worked hard to get to that point. It's not easy to get a job at a well paying well known company and even then, some places (anecdotally Amazon, FB from my friends) are miserable places to work at.

Finance/economics jobs still require good grades in relevant and difficult classes, getting the right internship/connections, etc to get the good/high prestige jobs.

Consulting jobs aren't easy to get either, and they work you to the bone so they have to pay good money to make up for it.

You are missing the point. I have worked in the tech industry and while you don’t make as much money as a physician, you start making six figures 2-3 years after getting your bachelors. In the meantime you are still making $60k+. As a physician you are going $60k+ a year in debt, then being paid what a software engineer makes right after college for another 3-7 years. That is 7-11 years of compound interest that you are losing. Even if you are making $300k a year, that’s a big loss, that takes many years to recoup. Is this a huge deal? No, but don’t be delusional that the income of a physician doesn’t come at a price unlike any other profession.

Tldr: don’t go into medicine for money

 

[Engrailed]

You are missing the point. I have worked in the tech industry and while you don’t make as much money as a physician, you start making six figures 2-3 years after getting your bachelors. In the meantime you are still making $60k+. As a physician you are going $60k+ a year in debt, then being paid what a software engineer makes right after college for another 3-7 years. That is 7-11 years of compound interest that you are losing. Even if you are making $300k a year, that’s a big loss, that takes many years to recoup. Is this a huge deal? No, but don’t be delusional that the income of a physician doesn’t come at a price unlike any other profession.

Tldr: don’t go into medicine for money

Agree with both. Totes ma gotes.
Even with the top paying specialties, you are sacrificing a lot to get there and to maintain that position.
Quick money doesn't happen in medicine.

 

[mistafab]

Not super high paying, but you can live a great life and start making money by going into a bio phd. I highly considered the phd route before medicine.

 

[Cornfed101]

Or just start a company like Theranos. You could make millions for a few years and then go to jail... if that sounds like an option. Just throwing ideas out there OP

 

[DrRealistic]

You are missing the point. I have worked in the tech industry and while you don’t make as much money as a physician, you start making six figures 2-3 years after getting your bachelors. In the meantime you are still making $60k+. As a physician you are going $60k+ a year in debt, then being paid what a software engineer makes right after college for another 3-7 years. That is 7-11 years of compound interest that you are losing. Even if you are making $300k a year, that’s a big loss, that takes many years to recoup. Is this a huge deal? No, but don’t be delusional that the income of a physician doesn’t come at a price unlike any other profession.

Tldr: don’t go into medicine for money

You're assuming everyone will have an insane amount of debt. I will leave medical school with around 65k in total debt. And I play to pay it all off during residency. I would beat that software guy.

 

[Cornfed101]

You're assuming everyone will have an insane amount of debt. I will leave medical school with around 65k in total debt. And I play to pay it all off during residency. I would beat that software guy.

Great, but for most people that’s not the case. I’ll probably have closer to $400k in debt. The average is $250-300k. I am giving advice for the average premed. For me, it was a terrible financial decision to quit my job and go back to school, but I felt called to do it and I’ve loved my path so far.

If you can manage your finances and only graduate with 65k in debt that’s awesome! It’s not the norm though

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I wouldn't go into medicine for the "money and prestige" if you describe yourself as a lazy student and those are the main drivers of why you want to do it. It's honestly just not worth it. There is so many long hours and crap you have to deal with in medicine that, even though you do come out on the other side with a good salary and location flexibility, it's simply not worth it. Sure you might find a job that pays less, but you will have more life flexibility than you will in medicine.

Even in medicine there are options however, my buddy just finished PA school (2 yrs) and started a good job as a general surgery PA making 108k a year (plus some really good benefits) and working 7-4. Yeah it's not 400k or anything crazy, but he did it in 1/5th the time it will take me to finish my training and he has plenty of time for his hobbies and family. Loves his job and his life. Now he lives in a low COL area so he might be more strapped financially if he wanted to live in a major metro or coast but that's not what he wants in life so his situation is perfect.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Basically, are you saying that even these other "lucrative" professions like CS, and finance and stuff aren't necessarily better income-wise than medicine? Only the truly exceptional, best of the best types will be making the kind of money that doctors make? So basically, medicine is still one of the best ways of making a lot of money?

I don't understand how you extrapolated any of this from my post. If you are concerned about money, then use Excel or download one of the free personal finance macro programs where you can put in your income, expenses, savings, and debt. Calculate which areas you are spending the most on and focus on cutting that down. Pay off all your credit card debt, pay off all your student loan debt. Compounding interest is literally the most toxic concept in finance to affect debt borrowers and many who go into debt do not bother to know the how their debt is being multiplied because it makes them feel bad when they sleep at night.

After you get rid of all your debt use FIRE resources to determine for yourself how you want to invest your earnings e.g. which types of savings accounts you might be interested in. This is often not a simple question of looking at APY, but also looking at terms and conditions to see which savings bank will offer you the best terms and conditions for you to operate under as someone who is going to start working in the real world. There are other elements to FIRE like credit card and savings account churn which takes advantage of every small possibility for you to live as debt free as possible. Then there is always the basic advice of putting money into a ROTH IRA or a 401K in which your investment should match employer matching. There's so much that people could do and don't do because they do not want to see their habits as a quantitative, objective measurement.

This is all independent of career choice. Money is correlated to occupational choice, but it is not causative. If you invest in real estate to loan out to college students, does that make you a real estate broker? What if your primary occupation is an engineer or physician? It's aggravating when people are stuck in the mindset of income, money, and cash when they should be thinking about wealth.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Cornfed101 I didn't know you could make those fat stacks of cash working two years as a mechanical engineer in a medical software company. 🙂 Either that or you were an overcompensated junior dev who was making that six figure salary. You must have been a Slack demon taking tickets left and right.

 

[Cornfed101]

@Cornfed101 I didn't know you could make those fat stacks of cash working two years as a mechanical engineer in a medical software company. 🙂 Either that or you were an overcompensated junior dev who was making that six figure salary. You must have been a Slack demon taking tickets left and right.

My last post I was saying I will be $400k in debt after med school because I’ll have to take out full COA to support my family.

I was definitely over compensated at Epic. I wasn’t even a developer. If I would have stayed for another year I would have been close to 6 figures. The devs there start at like $85k and most people get a 10-20% raise every year (my role included). It’s easy to do when you charge hospitals $30+million for your software.

 

[Wolvvs]

I work in consulting and healthcare admin so I have a perspective on this. There are absolutely other paths to making low six figures that take less time and effort. But you still have to put in the work. You either need a skill that few others have, or you have to work hard, make connections, and play your cards right, and even then nothing is guaranteed. Sure the ceiling is higher, but the vast majority will never make as much as a physician of any specialty. You need to be driven to succeed, and if you're not, you're unlikely to break 6 figures.

If you want to make money, you have to work for it. Plenty of people are happy working 9-5 office jobs for 60K a year because life isn't just about money and there are other things that are more important. You have to make the choice though, unless you're really lucky you can't have it both ways.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Cornfed101 Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I'm sft of software engineering, coding, and development being misrepresented as being an automated six figure experience after working 2-3 years in the industry. The people who qualify for positions like that as a hire at Google for L3 or Facebook for E4 (usually at 3-4 years of experience) positions have that salary with the connotation of Bay Area COL, RSU at grant value (value assumed upfront), and can actually perform at that competency and not get canned when it comes to review cycles.

Compensation for a junior developer at high five figures is a cost that FANG and software developer companies can afford in order to invest in talent growth without needing to be harsh post-6 months of initial hire. Junior devs are encouraged to fail and are nurtured by senior devs with the expectation that they will grow. I think it's an entirely different ball game to work as a mid to senior level developer, but have seen people who haven't worked as either writing about it as if it's a passive income process and does not involve any element that would be considered analogous to medical training / residency. I think that framing tech as naively being greener pastures is a gross inaccuracy, especially at salary level expectations to that of a physician on the same pay scale.

 

[Cornfed101]

@Cornfed101 Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I'm sft of software engineering, coding, and development being misrepresented as being an automated six figure experience after working 2-3 years in the industry. The people who qualify for positions like that as a hire at Google for L3 or Facebook for E4 (usually at 3-4 years of experience) positions have that salary with the connotation of Bay Area COL, RSU at grant value (value assumed upfront), and can actually perform at that competency and not get canned when it comes to review cycles.

Compensation for a junior developer at high five figures is a cost that FANG and software developer companies can afford in order to invest in talent growth without needing to be harsh post-6 months of initial hire. Junior devs are encouraged to fail and are nurtured by senior devs with the expectation that they will grow. I think it's an entirely different ball game to work as a mid to senior level developer, but have seen people who haven't worked as either writing about it as if it's a passive income process and does not involve any element that would be considered analogous to medical training / residency. I think that framing tech as naively being greener pastures is a gross inaccuracy, especially at salary level expectations to that of a physician on the same pay scale.

I am definitely not framing tech as being greener pastures. But if you are willing to learn how to program and willing to relocate anywhere (like Wisconsin). Then you can progress quickly. Epic may be an extreme example, but this was exactly what happened there. I’m not exaggerating or embellishing in any way. The kicker is that they use the programming language M, which is not used anywhere so they don’t expect anybody to come in knowing it. They hire people with math and science majors because they know they can learn it quickly. I learned how to program with M in about a month on the job.

Of course you don’t make as much as a physician, but I was making $70k right out of undergrad. 7+ years before a physician makes anywhere near that. Obviously it wasn’t greener for me. I switched out of it! But it works wonderfully for some people there.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Cornfed101 As someone who contextualized that they became a dev on an in-house platform, you should understand that if you weren't able to climb within Epic or if Epic had layoffs then you would be in an incredibly compromised situation. This is one of the common barriers that a software engineer can face when attempting to transition into a mid-level position despite having "2-3 years" of experience on platform A, B, or C which utilizes language X, Y, or Z. If you are being interviewed for a position that is requesting familiarity with a certain subset of skills that you do not possess, then someone attempting to progress to a mid level dev can be caught in "tutorial hell" in which they are churning through their free time becoming a jack of all trades, master of none. This is another reason why I put it out there that there is a notable difference in professionalism when it comes to hitting the next level of responsibility. It makes sense to leave when you decided to leave, because transitioning to the level where everyone compares it to being a physician without the medical debt is (imo) a very different animal altogether.

 

[Cornfed101]

OP, moral of the story is that there aren't any get rich quick schemes. There aren't any jobs that will instantly give you success and money. You have to work hard for it in whatever industry you pursue. Basically, you can make money in any industry you choose. Just make sure you work hard if you decide not to pursue medicine (and expect to work hard if you do).

 

[CidHighwind]

It’s just gunner talk. People don’t want you to go for those jobs because then it’s easier for them to get them. Most people will say finance makes more but unless you’re a managing director or higher, you’ll probably just make in the range of what a specialist makes. They’ll say tech, but that usually requires moving to a high COL area and that “high income” isn’t that great. I think there’s some graph around that the jobs that produce the most millionaires are physicians. Lawyers are a mixed bag, whereas even the worst MD that graduates, matches, and finishes residency will have a 200k job waiting for them. Most “CEOs” own small businesses, not huge Fortune 500 companies. Even if you’re a professional athlete, your career will be short (most NFL players are only in the league for 3 seasons) and if they’re signed at the minimum, the team orthopod makes more than them.

I think the main thing is that if ALL you want is money, then there are other well paying jobs out there. But yet no one can name a job that has as much job security, flexibility with location, respect (although less important) as physicians. I never got why people keep spreading this lie as if physicians don’t make “that much money”. There’s lots of physicians in every “rich” neighborhood in America.

 

[CidHighwind]

Do you think dentistry could lead to this path as well? Not sure if you're familiar with the state/future of dentistry.

Lol I actually put in my original post “dentistry pays good as well, but then you’d have to be a dentist” but decided not to since everyone would have just focused on that. Yeah, dentists (not associates) make 250-350k a year easy. Orthodontists and specialists make more. The “saturation” is just about how people can’t go to some major city and not face competition. It’s not as if there’s just no jobs out there like people on here try to portray.

 

[Cornfed101]

Yeah, dentists (not associates) make 250-350k a year easy. Orthodontists and specialists make more.

I agree with your saturation comment, but as someone with 3 uncles, a grandfather, a couple of cousins, and a brother-in-law who are dentists, I would say median is more like 200K, but you can definitely make more (especially if you specialize). Also, keep in mind that many dental residencies don't usually pay you, but often require tuition!

 

[CidHighwind]

But isn't living in a nice area an important thing to consider? I'm sure most people wouldn't want to live in rural areas, away from their family, friends, good school districts, accessible stores/clubs/activities, etc

So there’s a difference between major cities, big cities, small towns, and rural areas. Most of SDN when they talk about “saturation” mean cities like NYC, Boston, San Fran, LA. If they were ever to consider cities a little bit below that (Indianapolis, Dallas, Phoenix, Tampa, Raleigh, etc) that have all the things you’d want from a huge city aren’t nearly as saturated for many things.

 

[CidHighwind]

Do you think that oversaturation in other places, that aren't the HUGE cities like NYC, won't a problem for the foreseeable future (at least 10 - 15 years)?

So right now there’s about 60 dentists for every 100,000 people in the US, or roughly ~1700 potential customers per dentist. I don’t have a crystal ball, but seeing as my dentist stays booked out up to a year at a time, I think they’ll be alright 😉

 

[Ferrous]

High paying careers are usually a lot of work whether law, dentistry, IB etc. Probably just as much as medicine.

Also medicine is not hard because of the lifestyle, it's hard because of the health care system. If the system was more forgiving, I think we wouldn't mind studying/working 80+ hours a week while training.