Therapy hours

[cara susanna]

Hi everyone,

I was recently able to secure a paid placement for my third year, which is how we get funded in my program. This placement will be entirely assessment. So, though I'm pretty confident about my assessment hours, I am worried about therapy. Unpaid therapy opportunities are more difficult to come by in this area because it's rather small. Our department clinic is not getting many referrals. I'm pursuing all of the avenues that I can think of to get these hours, but I'm still pretty worried. I really want to apply for internship by my fourth year, so I feel like I'm running out of time.

So my question is, what is the minimum number of therapy hours that you would recommend to have by internship application time? I want to apply to internship sites that are research-friendly but still have a clinical focus, if that helps. I've looked at my ideal internships and I can't find any information on average number of hours on their or APPIC's website.

Thanks!

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[paramour]

I'm in the opposite situation for similar reasons [i.e., I have plenty of therapy hours and zilch for assessment, which I really, really, really (did I mention really?) need] prior to submitting my packet.

Happy hunting for those elusive hours, and g'luck.

 

[psychmama]

It varies depending on the internship site. In general, I think 500+ therapy hours was what I heard when I was interviewing for internship. In places like Chicago, NYC, or CA it was considerable higher due to increased competition.

IDK, my assessment hours were probably only like 300, but I had close to 1100 therapy hours before internship. Then again, I was in a PsyD program and waited until year 6 for internship.

 

[falseimitation]

I currently work as a master's level LPA and most of what I do is assessments (intellectual/academic/socioemotional/you name it). I recently applied and was accepted into a program. Every interview I went to, I was told to track the amount of assessment hours I had done/am doing at my job. Can I use these hours when I apply for internship, since technically it's pre-doctoral level training?

Because trust me, I can guarantee I have a TON of assessment hours that I would love to use if I can.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I currently work as a master's level LPA and most of what I do is assessments (intellectual/academic/socioemotional/you name it). I recently applied and was accepted into a program. Every interview I went to, I was told to track the amount of assessment hours I had done/am doing at my job. Can I use these hours when I apply for internship, since technically it's pre-doctoral level training?

Because trust me, I can guarantee I have a TON of assessment hours that I would love to use if I can.

There's a section on the APPIC application for hours earned in a separate master's degree. These are separate from, and not counted toward, your doctoral assessment/therapy hours.

 

[falseimitation]

There's a section on the APPIC application for hours earned in a separate master's degree. These are separate from, and not counted toward, your doctoral assessment/therapy hours.

Thanks! Good to know.

 

[paramour]

It varies depending on the internship site. In general, I think 500+ therapy hours was what I heard when I was interviewing for internship. In places like Chicago, NYC, or CA it was considerable higher due to increased competition.

IDK, my assessment hours were probably only like 300, but I had close to 1100 therapy hours before internship. Then again, I was in a PsyD program and waited until year 6 for internship.

Are these direct face-to-face hours?!

Please forgive me, as I certainly don't mean ANY disrespect when I use the following phrase "people like you" are the ones who give students in our program panic attacks when thinking about applying for internship when we hear about students applying with thousands of client hours. We couldn't possibly do it if we tried and I think we start to fret a li'l too much (or is it?) when we hear that this is reportedly the norm.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Are these direct face-to-face hours?!

Please forgive me, as I certainly don't mean ANY disrespect when I use the following phrase "people like you" are the ones who give students in our program panic attacks when thinking about applying for internship when we hear about students applying with thousands of client hours. We couldn't possibly do it if we tried and I think we start to fret a li'l too much (or is it?) when we hear that this is reportedly the norm.

I would say/think that 1100 face-to-face therapy hours falls at the upper end of the spectrum, although psychmama did mention that she(?) waited until year 6 to apply, meaning that during year four, she(?) probably had somewhere closer to ~700. I know of one or two people in my own program who had ~1000 hours of therapy, but from what I've been able to gather, it's definitely not the norm. I could be wrong, though.

In my own case, I had over 1000 hours of face-to-face assessment time(comes with the territory in neuropsych), but I believe only 200-300 hours of face-to-face therapy. I would imagine that most non-neuropsych students probably reported twice the therapy experience I did (or more, if coming from a heavily clinically-focused program).

 

[cara susanna]

Gahhhh! And here I thought 300 sounded high.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Gahhhh! And here I thought 300 sounded high.

I would imagine that in some programs and with some populations, 300 could indeed be high. I think it's important not to get too caught up in numbers--assuming you meet whatever minimum requirements are listed by the site (if any), at that point I have the feeling that just as much of their decision rests on the quality and diversity of your experiences as it does on the sheer quantity of therapy/assessment hours. Sites also of course seem to look at where else you've been spending your time (publications, teaching, supervision, etc.).

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, I will have a ton of supervision hours by the time I apply.

I found out (after I posted this thread, of course!) that the minimum one site I'd be interested in wants at least 300. I really hope I can get an additional therapy placement next year. I do have to consider though that I want a career in academia/research, so I've always been more focused on getting publications.

 

[Ollie123]

Even for research-oriented folks, I'd be very uncomfortable applying with < 500 total face-to-face hours (therapy and assessment combined). Most of our students are over 600, and even those are usually the research-focused students with the clinically focused students being well over the national average. This is a pretty hardcore clinical science program, so its not as though we are particularly focused on clinical work. Of course we also have a longer time to completion than it sounds like some programs do (average 6+1) though I actually don't think that's more the norm for the clinical science programs. Diversity matters too, and it will likely vary based on what sorts of places you are applying to. I hear VAs like lots of integrated reports (at least the VA I'm at does). 25+ though the definition of what "counts" as an integrated report is vague enough that I'm sure there is some inflation going on. Obviously someone applying to neuro tracks with 200 assessment hours is going to have a much harder time than someone applying to therapy-focused tracks,

My biggest concern right now is diversity (as in types of experience, not cultural), particularly in assessment. My actual assessment hours aren't horrible given I'm at least 2 years away from applying (~250), but my diversity is really really weak given at least 150 of them are in the lab doing 1 of 2 diagnostic interviews to rule out various pathologies. Counts as hours but not sure I'd call it "real" assessment experience and I'm fairly sure the 120th SCID is going to make or break an internship application. Hoping to do a neuropsych practica next year to make up for lost ground - I'm finding I like assessment more than therapy anyways. Much more nerdy

 

[cara susanna]

Well, I'm worried more about therapy, not contact.

 

[psychmama]

Cara - please do not freak out about the hours; it is only one consideration of many for internship applications. As others have said, the type and range of experiences you've had clinically is just as (maybe more) important. Having said that, I'd echo that fewer than 500 hrs clinical contact may be a problem and put you at a disadvantage, unless you stick to sites that are very research-heavy. Naturally, such places put more emphasis on publications etc and less on clinical contact. I suggest you check with students in your program who have matched successfully -- they can tell you what is needed to get the job done.

Best.

Psychmama

 

[cara susanna]

Thanks! The older students always tell us that people always worry about hours but they always end up having enough. I was just worried because I won't have any therapy opportunities at my paid placement.

Anyway, I actually just managed to secure an additional unpaid therapy placement for next year, so I am feeling much better. Best of luck to you on finding assessment opportunities, paramour.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

While only N=1, I can tell you when I reviewed internship applications, the total # of hours was not very important to me or to the site. Obviously you need some experience, though the breadth and depth of training is probably more important than someone cramming in a bunch of hours. At a certain point, I'd look at a ton of hours as a negative thing if there were obvious weak spots in the person's C.V. For instance, if someone had 1200+ hours and no presentations/publications/other experience, I'd wonder why they didn't carve out some time to round out their CV.

 

[paramour]

Thanks! The older students always tell us that people always worry about hours but they always end up having enough. I was just worried because I won't have any therapy opportunities at my paid placement.

Anyway, I actually just managed to secure an additional unpaid therapy placement for next year, so I am feeling much better. Best of luck to you on finding assessment opportunities, paramour.

I'm glad you found something, cara, and I certainly hope it works out for boosting your packet for internship over the next year. I'm actually glad to read these threads to see good news for some folks every once in a while because I certainly don't see it happening too often around here. :|

As for the luck, it was a nice sentiment, but as I was just royally frakked over by my dept yet again, I doubt there's going to be any such opportunity. At this point, I suppose that I'm "supposed" to consider myself fortunate that I at least received some funding for the upcoming year. In the meantime, they've given me a first/sometimes second year placement; it's not a practicum assignment; I'm no longer in the on-campus clinic as I've fulfilled those requirements; and they've denied all my previous attempts to work "extra" unpaid hours anywhere and elsewhere... so I'm very likely not going to be receiving any hours whatsoever in the upcoming year. I'm not sure WTF the point is continuing at this juncture, which royally sucks big fat donkey balls (pardon my language).

Perhaps I'll make them happy and give my notice; then go to med school. Then they can report to the APA on the upcoming site visit that it was simply yet another student w/ personal issues.